Carphone Warehouse policy on Apple goods

KoolKid

I recently bought an iTouch from Carphone Warehouse (Dec 07)
It has stopped working & won't power on . I asked instore about returning it & was basically told they can do nothing & you must deal with Apple direcly. I was just wondering whats the legality of this. I understood when you buy something the contract is between you & the shop, not the manufacturer..

I would like to be more informed before taking this further

Doctor DooM

koolkid wrote: »

I recently bought an iTouch from Carphone Warehouse (Dec 07)
It has stopped working & won't power on . I asked instore about returning it & was basically told they can do nothing & you must deal with Apple direcly. I was just wondering whats the legality of this. I understood when you buy something the contract is between you & the shop, not the manufacturer..

I would like to be more informed before taking this further

You're correct, your contract is with the reseller, not with the manufacturer, however from my knowledge they will just send it back to Apple anyway, so it may be in your best interests time wise to send it yourself.

You should have been offered to help by them though, thats bad service.

mikemac

Apple are pretty good at resolving these matters.
But all the same, let the Carphone Warehouse arrange to get this couried to Apple, it's their responsibilty.

If you do deal with Apple don't call it an iTouch as there is no such thing

cgarvey

You're right about the legal obligation being on CPW, not Apple. I don't know how it was worded to you, but Apple recommend that all retailers refer support/return issues to them directly. It's just a recommendation, but it does cut out the unnecessary CPW interaction (which will save at the very least 2 days).

Apple generally courier replacements out to you (wiht a pre-paid label to return your faulty goods, subject to CC security being held). Very quick and generally hassle-free.

Oryx

I had the same response from the shop where I bought a Nano that went dead. I contacted Apple and after jumping through all their hoops (making sure youve tried all the usual fixes) they sent a courier to pick it up. It was hassle free I had it back very quickly. Its not the usual way to solve it but in this case they have it well set up, and it works.

Though the courier said hed never buy an Apple product as he has to pick up so many faulty ones!

foggy_lad

this may work well but it could work just as good with the carphone warehouse doing what they are supposed to be doing as the seller of these products!

this is just anoyther attempt to water down/diminish customers rights and the sellers obligations!

Oryx

foggy_lad wrote: »

this may work well but it could work just as good with the carphone warehouse doing what they are supposed to be doing as the seller of these products!

this is just anoyther attempt to water down/diminish customers rights and the sellers obligations!

I agree its not the way it should be done. But after a fruitless discussion with the shop concerned, in my case I gave up and did as they recommended. And it worked out ok. But if it hadnt it would be interesting to see where I would have stood vis a vis refund etc.

foggy_lad

KtK wrote: »

I agree its not the way it should be done. But after a fruitless discussion with the shop concerned, in my case I gave up and did as they recommended. And it worked out ok. But if it hadnt it would be interesting to see where I would have stood vis a vis refund etc.

dont know if you would definitely get a refund but for them to flatly refuse to deal with apple products you have purchased in their stores is contrary to your statutory rights and you can easily proceed with a small claim against them because of this and you would probably be awarded a refund or a replacement.

this is similar to signs in stores that refunds are only given within 24hours/30days of purchase or no refunds given only credit notes etc

KoolKid

I might try another approach to the shop first..
Not being arkward or anything but why should I have to wait home for a courier etc..
Thanks for all the input.

cgarvey

Ah! If you don't want to wait around, then yes bring to the shop and demand they repair it or return it. The law is very clear that they are obliged to do that.

Apple, in their recommendation to retailers, are not trying to 'diminsh' any rights, they're merely trying to make the user experience a better one. Free courier to your home/work door usually the following morning is much handier than dealing with the shop, IMO.

KoolKid

It does make sense allright, But it was put very differently by the store. Basicially it was something like " Apple are very particular about this. We are not allowed to do anything you must deal with Apple direct. heres the number"

DOS

Profit margin on the Apple products are approx 4% hence the little enthusiasm to help you out

foggy_lad

DOS wrote: »

Profit margin on the Apple products are approx 4% hence the little enthusiasm to help you out

and its the carphone warehouse, imo trained seals would do a better job

Doctor DooM

foggy_lad wrote: »

this may work well but it could work just as good with the carphone warehouse doing what they are supposed to be doing as the seller of these products!

this is just anoyther attempt to water down/diminish customers rights and the sellers obligations!

Actually, no, it's not a conspiracy, Apple do rather you go through them.

However the store ARE legally obliged to accept the return.

Apple will deliver to your work place, not just your home, but if it is unsuitable, I would ask to speak to the manager in the Carphone Warehouse and explain to him.

Pythia

CPW have been doing this for years so I doubt a chat with the manager will do anything.
Whatever about your legal rights, just go with the quicker option. Saves everyone hassle.

CantGetNoSleep

What if something was faulty but you had no receipt? Bought in the last fortnight?

cgarvey

Did you pay by CC? You could bring a CC statement as proof of purchase (they can look up the purchase if it's not obvious from the statement).

Sam Vimes

this is not carphone warehouse's policy on apple goods, this is apple's policy on apple goods. i worked in two shops that sold apple goods and neither of them allowed us to take them back. we were told to give the customer apple's customer care number (1850 946 191) and never take them back under any circumstances

i know the store is obliged to take it back but apple doesn't allow them to because they have their own procedure for dealing with these things which works out better for all concerned. cpw don't have to deal with it, the customer doesn't have a third party messing things up unnecessarily, apple can have the same policy worldwide because they don't have to work around thousands of different shop policies and the whole process is a lot faster and easier

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote: »

this may work well but it could work just as good with the carphone warehouse doing what they are supposed to be doing as the seller of these products!

this is just anoyther attempt to water down/diminish customers rights and the sellers obligations!

foggy_lad wrote: »

dont know if you would definitely get a refund but for them to flatly refuse to deal with apple products you have purchased in their stores is contrary to your statutory rights and you can easily proceed with a small claim against them because of this and you would probably be awarded a refund or a replacement.

this is similar to signs in stores that refunds are only given within 24hours/30days of purchase or no refunds given only credit notes etc

still the old foggy_lad we all know and love i see. he could take them to court for following the policy that the manufacturer insists every seller of the product worldwide follows, or he could make it easier on everyone, including himself, and just call apple

Doctor DooM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

this is not carphone warehouse's policy on apple goods, this is apple's policy on apple goods. i worked in two shops that sold apple goods and neither of them allowed us to take them back. we were told to give the customer apple's customer care number (1850 946 191) and never take them back under any circumstances

We used to take them back and then run them through the same proceedure the customer did. That said, we only dealt in iPods in that store, I know for a fact a store wouldn't talk to you unless you'd rang the helpline on a MacBook issue.

Sam Vimes

SDooM wrote: »

We used to take them back and then run them through the same proceedure the customer did. That said, we only dealt in iPods in that store, I know for a fact a store wouldn't talk to you unless you'd rang the helpline on a MacBook issue.

we did have to do it for one or two customers who flatly refused to call apple and generally threw a tantrum. so we'd call apple and they'd start asking us questions about what had been done to it that we didn't know the answer to etc and the whole thing ended up being a lot of hassle because we had no procedure to deal with them because apple have their own far simpler procedure that 99% of people are happy to follow

Doctor DooM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

we did have to do it for one or two customers who flatly refused to call apple and generally threw a tantrum. so we'd call apple and they'd start asking us questions about what had been done to it that we didn't know the answer to etc and the whole thing ended up being a lot of hassle because we had no procedure to deal with them because apple have their own far simpler procedure that 99% of people are happy to follow

If the OP is smart, he will pick up on this.

CantGetNoSleep

cgarvey wrote: »

Did you pay by CC? You could bring a CC statement as proof of purchase (they can look up the purchase if it's not obvious from the statement).

No paid by a gift voucher

Sam Vimes

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

No paid by a gift voucher

if you have no proof of purchase you have no rights i'm afraid. what was it and where did you buy it? did they take your details when you bought it?

KoolKid

Interesting that this is Apple policy. Spoke to a friend who works is Argos. The iTouch is exmpt fron thier 30 day refund. But if the unit is faulty they will exchange or refund no problem.

CantGetNoSleep

Sam Vimes wrote: »

if you have no proof of purchase you have no rights i'm afraid. what was it and where did you buy it? did they take your details when you bought it?

It was runners in Foot Locker, the tongue has completely broken out of them after a week.

I always keep receipts of electrical items etc but because it was runners and I had worn them I threw it out.

Do people think there is any point in even giving it a try?

Ryo Hazuki

Register your apple products.
Makes things a lot easier if you have trouble at some point..

Its better to just ring apple yourself and let them collect it from your own
house/work rather than having to:

1. Drive to the shop.
2. Drive home.
3. Probably ring the shop to see where it is.
4. Having to drive to the shop and collect it.
5. Then finally drive home.

Waste of fuel, time, and money..

Apple have an excellent online troubleshooting system and returns
procedure.

Just my 2 cents..

Sam Vimes

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

It was runners in Foot Locker, the tongue has completely broken out of them after a week.

I always keep receipts of electrical items etc but because it was runners and I had worn them I threw it out.

Do people think there is any point in even giving it a try?

there's no harm trying but i wouldn't hold out much hope

CantGetNoSleep

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

It was runners in Foot Locker, the tongue has completely broken out of them after a week.

I always keep receipts of electrical items etc but because it was runners and I had worn them I threw it out.

Do people think there is any point in even giving it a try?

Got a credit note form Foot Locker without any hassle

Fair play to them, if only all retailers could be so customer friendly, I'll shop there again

Blue_Wolf

Carphone warehouse are not obligated to send apple products back to Apple. Same case as 3 network. All repair issues are dealt with by themselves. If apple decide to replace the product instead of repair they will give carphone warehouse an Rma number and than can be replaced in store. By law its 28 days faulty exchange period

Sam Vimes

the 28 day faulty exchange period is not law, it's a company policy. The period is basically up to the retailer as long as it is "reasonable", which is the magic word when it comes to consumer law

Blue_Wolf

I beg to differ mate, it is law. It is also law for the company after the 28days to offer either repair,replacement or refund. That part is upto the company.

Sam Vimes

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

I beg to differ mate, it is law. It is also law for the company after the 28days to offer either repair,replacement or refund. That part is upto the company.

which law says it has to be 28 days?

edit:this page says nothing about 28 days:
http://citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland

it just says "Act as soon as you can – a delay can indicate that you have accepted faulty goods or services". you'd think that if 28 days was enshrined in law they'd mention it. and i can't find any mention of a 28 day period in the sale of good and supply of services act.

foggy_lad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

still the old foggy_lad we all know and love i see. he could take them to court for following the policy that the manufacturer insists every seller of the product worldwide follows, or he could make it easier on everyone, including himself, and just call apple

just to clarify a few points 1st you do not know me and 2nd i and possibly most other people are not interested in any feelings you may have towards me and 3rd point is that i will not be taking apple anywhere as i do not own any apple products.

what an unusual statement to make as often it is more hassle ringing a manufacturer and trying to arrange collection/delivery which may well be ok if you are in a large town but if you live in the back of beyonds it is more likely the courier will have difficulty finding you!

wouldn't it be far better for store staff to take the product and arrange collection from the store which the courier should have no problem finding.

jahalpin

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Carphone warehouse are not obligated to send apple products back to Apple. Same case as 3 network. All repair issues are dealt with by themselves. If apple decide to replace the product instead of repair they will give carphone warehouse an Rma number and than can be replaced in store. By law its 28 days faulty exchange period

Under Irish law, CPW are required to deal with faulty goods as the consumers contract is with them and not with Apple. It is upto them to either repair or replace the item.

As for the 3 network, CPW are acting as an agent selling 3 contracts and supply phones that are seriously subsidized by 3 as part of the contract

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote: »

just to clarify a few points 1st you do not know me and 2nd i and possibly most other people are not interested in any feelings you may have towards me

i don't know you personally. i was referring to the dozens and dozens of posts you've made where you showed how you like to make life more difficult for yourself and everyone else because you "insist on your rights!!!1!1!!" even when a perfectly reasonable alternative is being offered.

foggy_lad wrote: »

and 3rd point is that i will not be taking apple anywhere as i do not own any apple products.

emm, i didn't say you would. i said he should

foggy_lad wrote: »

what an unusual statement to make as often it is more hassle ringing a manufacturer and trying to arrange collection/delivery which may well be ok if you are in a large town but if you live in the back of beyonds it is more likely the courier will have difficulty finding you!

they generally send you a bubble wrap envelope and you put the item in. i'm sure the post man knows where you live.

and even if a courier does get lost, a quick phone call with directions or even sending him your coordinates from a 5 second google maps search is easier than using your own time and petrol getting from the back of beyond to the shop

foggy_lad wrote: »

wouldn't it be far better for store staff to take the product and arrange collection from the store which the courier should have no problem finding.

only if you vastly overestimate how difficult it is to find a house in ireland. using the shop as an intermediary adds an extra level of complexity to the process which makes it more likely that things will go wrong and if they do, your item is one of hundreds they've sent off so they have no big rush to solve the problem. you're the one who's always giving out about how lazy and incompetent shop staff are but here you are insisting they be involved in an otherwise efficient process because you think you live in the twighlight zone where couriers dare not tread

FreedomJoe

I purchased a Laptop from Currys, (Dixon Group), anyhow the Laptop went faulty just a few monts after I purchased it. I drove to the store who told me that I had to contact their helpline to have my problems resolved.

So I did, the laptop was picked up and took away for repair,(sent to the UK to a company called tech guys who are also (Dixons Group). 3 months later and after numerous amounts of telephone calls and letters I was finally told by the helpline that they had in fact lost my laptop!

I was then told to drive to the store and pick up a new laptop, (Tough luck on all my software and files). So i did just that, i drove all the way to the store. At the store they knew nothing about me and my new laptop and it was only 2 hours later that the helpline managed to sort out there issues with the store and inform me I could have a new laptop!

By this stage the only laptops they had in store were a lower spec model!
So I demanded a refund and left!

I then took my custom to PC World (Dixon Group again!) and purchased a new compaq. Several months later this laptop developed a fault, took the laptop back to the store. Sales rep tells me I must ring the helpline etc. I explain to the sales rep that this wasnt on, and told them about my previous issue at currys, and I point out to the sales rep that the law is that my contract of sale is between the store and myself and not some person at the other end of the phone. Sales rep gets snotty but takes my laptop in for repair and two weeks later I get my laptop back.

Moral of the story for me?

Never use Dixons groups stores again!

Never allow a courier to pick up your products for repair as the courrier company and the repair/manufacturer company have a long dispute (3 months) about whos fault it is when items are lost!

I actually did write to Dixons to complain about the sorry fiasco. I got a reply saying sorry, but customers must except that issues like this arise from time to time!

craichoe

Jees ... you don't even have to go into the store.

Just set up a pickup online:

http://depot.info.apple.com/ipod/

Takes about 10 working days for the whole thing