Horizontal leg press

cavanmaniac

I tried squats there for a while but, as I more or less knew beforehand, my back wasn't quite up to it so the horizontal leg press machine was recommended to me instead.

I've been doing it for a while now but am just wondering if anyone here has any pointers as regards technique etc.? I try not to either straighten my legs fully/lock when 'extended' or allow them to go to less than 90 degrees when relaxing.

It seems to me that the range of movement is quite small though, does this mean I'm not getting a proper workout or am I doing it correctly?

And finally, what are the guidelines as to the back support on the machine, should you be at a 45 degree angle or more flat on your back or what?

I'd ask the instructor in the gym but frankly, the guy hasn't much of a clue and I'd listen to someone on here alot quicker...

arybvtcw0eolkf

If you don't have a pre-existing medical problem with your back then you can be shown proper technique to over come any weakness there and get you squating.

I think 'Colm' from here can give you a few excellent pointers to improve your squat and make them safer.

rubadub

I can't comment on the machine. But you can do squats with a hip belt. You would want a good one like the iron mind one. I think I have squatted with 80kg on mine before. Dunno what the experienced lifters think of this technique.

I am thinking of taking it up again, I have 2 strong boxes to stand on now. It is obviously easier on your back.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460624

It is not ideal as proper back squats would work your core etc, more. But it might be better than a machine.

cavanmaniac

My back is generally okay but free-standing exercises tend to throw it out - I was only doing it tentatively to begin with, with an empty bar across the front of my chest to make sure my technique was not being interfered with. But it still gave me back pain for a good while afterwards and my osteopath advised ditching it for the leg press machine, at least for a while.

Everyone seems keen for me to go back to squats, am I to take it that by comparison, the leg press machine is very much in the ha'penny place?

arybvtcw0eolkf

cavanmaniac wrote: »

Everyone seems keen for me to go back to squats, am I to take it that by comparison, the leg press machine is very much in the ha'penny place?

In comparison to squats - YES.

But I'm a firm believer that every bit of machinary in the gym has its place.

You sound like a complete novice?.. So look at the leg press as learning something about your muscles and how they work and feel during exercise and when your confident enough to try squats again get some sound advice.

The trainers most gym's employ are not worth giving the time of day to, forget them mostly.

Like I said 'Colm' (I think its Colm O'Reilly actually) can point you in the right direction for learning the squat safely and correctly.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Try deadlifts to strengthen your back. My lower back was very weak, but deads really help build it up. Makes squats easier, as well as making you feel like a real manly mans man!

Colm_OReilly

Thanks Mairt!

Now, you have a weak back, so you have avoided strengthening that in favour of strengthening your legs in a very short range of motion, that's also unnatural?

Where was your back sore? How many reps were you doing?

The front squat (when the bar is across your upper chest/shoulders) is far more taxing on the upper back than a low bar back squat. It also favours the quads ahead of the hamstrings.

Do you experience any issues overhead pressing? Air Squatting? (That's squatting without the bar) Are you dead lifting?

I try not to either straighten my legs fully/lock when 'extended' or allow them to go to less than 90 degrees when relaxing.

Who told you this nonsense?

But you can do squats with a hip belt.

Belts are generally for the stage when you're squatting a lot heavier - I doubt the OP is at that stage yet.

Col

rubadub

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Belts are generally for the stage when you're squatting a lot heavier - I doubt the OP is at that stage yet.

What do you think of them in general? My problem is no squat rack. I can get ~62kg up and on my back, or up to around 80kg (4x20kg)on the belt on boxes.

A better option for me is probably a combo, 4x10kg plates on the belt, and 30-40kg on the bar. This means the smaller diamter 10kg plates do not hit the ground, so no need for boxes. And I can easily get 30kg on my back even with the belt on me.

EDIT- I meant a dipping belt BTW, not sure if you thought I meant a back support belt.



http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460624

cavanmaniac

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Now, you have a weak back, so you have avoided strengthening that in favour of strengthening your legs in a very short range of motion, that's also unnatural?

Where was your back sore? How many reps were you doing?

Lower back was giving me gip, that's where I've had on-off problems for years - not severe or anything but pain nonetheless. I started doing the leg press on the advice of the osteopath who indicated they would be similar to the squat without the risk of hurting my back.

I was doing 4 sets of 15 reps. As soon I felt my back getting sore, I ditched them pronto.

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

The front squat (when the bar is across your upper chest/shoulders) is far more taxing on the upper back than a low bar back squat. It also favours the quads ahead of the hamstrings.

Do you experience any issues overhead pressing? Air Squatting? (That's squatting without the bar) Are you dead lifting?

I've never tried overheads/air squatting/deadlifts, no...

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Who told you this nonsense?

Remember I mentioned the gym instructor I wasn't totally confident about?:D

Hanley

I think the problem is you're doing sets of 15... that'll fatigue your lower back quite quickly!

Canis Lupus

Hanley wrote: »

I think the problem is you're doing sets of 15... that'll fatigue your lower back quite quickly!

Hanley knows best but I'd also like to say I agree.

I've to really work hard not to let my back 'round' when I start getting tired on squats.

My gym instructor said to me stop once that starts and it seems fair advice. 4*15 seems too much particularly if you already have an existing issue with your back.

Colm_OReilly

rub,

I thought you meant support belt, not dipping belt. I've no real experience with them but I would hazard a guess that they reduce the workload your back has to do to stablise the load over the midfoot, as these would appear to do that naturally.

Buy a rack for pete's sake - 130 odd in Argos and we've loaded ours up to 120Kg with no probs.

cavemaniac,

I started doing the leg press on the advice of the osteopath who indicated they would be similar to the squat without the risk of hurting my back.

Now, remember I'm just some guy on the internet BUT a leg press is not similar to a squat. There's a Mark Rippetoe quote from Starting Strength volume 1
"I want you to slap the next person who tells you they've a 1000lb leg press. A 1000lb leg press is like a 500lb quarter squat."

I doubt your osteopath squats, or squats correctly. My bro is a brilliant physio, but doesn't know squat about squatting. But then again these guys are professionals and I'm just some guy on t'innernet.

I'd start overhead pressing (shoulder pressing) and this will help stabilise your core. I'd also start deadlifting. You can start with a dowel or pvc pipe, but please start.

Lots of short videos on crossfit.com on squat and deadlift technique. The air squat ones are good, they don't go into as much depth on the back squat, but the deadlift ones are very good.
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html

Do a Youtube search for Squat Rx - some good pointers on there as well.

If you have the cash, get Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe - I cannot recommend it enough.

Colm

cavanmaniac

Good stuff Colm, cheers, I am planning to get that book as I've seen you recommend it more than once.

EDIT: Incidentally, where's the best place to purchase that book online, amazon.co.uk don't have it...

Colm_OReilly

Buy direct from Rip here

Amazon.com also have it.

Seriously, the book and his Q&A are a gold mine.

We're having an Open Day next Saturday (April 12th) from 1-4 if you want to come along and do some squatting with us?

cavanmaniac

Yeah a bit of instruction from someone who knows their stuff would be a good idea, but I'm working most weekends I'm afraid.

Colm_OReilly

Tell your boss you're going CrossFitting. If he understands he's sound. If not, he's a pussy and you need to bring him along, for all our sakes.