Asking too much?

I've been applying for loads of jobs recently but not having much luck. I really don't think I'm being overly fussy at all. I have a high 2:1 Hons degree and nearly a year customer service/reception/phone experience, and I'm looking for any kind of reception/admin work with a salary of 23K+. A few recruitment agencies have implied I'm being too demanding with my salary expectations, stating that I don't have much experience. Obviously I can't have had 5 years as a secretary, because I went to college for 4 years, but since I finished college I've had 7 months solid customer service/admin/database entry and before that receptionist experience. I also have a good typing speed and excellent IT skills. Am I asking for too much here? Is it just too much to ask for this kind of job? I don't think less than 2k a month before tax is a huge salary at all.....just rent, bills and food alone come to over 1k. Should I just aim lower or should I keep asking?

Xcellor

I started 3 years ago on 20k as a tech support agent and had a couple of years of experience. Since that point ive been promoted a couple of times but still not breached 30k, sometimes you have to just bite the bullet at lower and hope your annual increases will keep up with inflation and maybe a bit more!

stardust_dublin

i think 23k is a low salary to be asking for considering you have a degree as well as at least 6 months experience. i didnt think salaries in that kind of industry were lower than that? how much lower could the salary be? 23k is at the lowest end of the scale for a job that requires a 3rd level degree(im presuming that it does)

That's what I thought. These aren't necessarily all graduate level jobs though. I did languages, so it's really hard to find something directly related to my degree at the moment, it's not like engineering or medicine. I did think I'd be able to get some position in a decent company though, or at least get a reasonably paid admin job. I just can't understand why they're acting like 23k is a lot of money. It's not awful, but it's certainly not great at all. It's not as if I've come out of college with an arts degree and am expecting 40k.

gerire

My gf is sitting beside me here and is saying to go for temping for a while when looking for a fulltime placement.
The benefits of temping is that although you may be on the move around a fair bit you are going to get so much vital experience in many different systems that are used around industry, also if you are a good worker a company will be keen to keep you, My gf has been offered in a 3 month period, in 3 different jobs, an offer of full time work and also further college training if she wanted;

I feel a good rule of thumb is that if you think you are worth it, be strong and hold out for it

The only thing is I was worried that temping might leave me periods with no work and I'll always have rent, bills etc to pay, and also I'm supposed to notify a student loan company anytime I'm in paid employment, and make repayments based on my salary, which could be awkward.......

I'm definitely not against temping though, my friend gets over 15e/hour for basic admin! Would Mary B etc be good places to look? (Have an interview with them soon)

Chinafoot

I think you're being a bit unrealistic here in your salary expectations to be honest. A lot of reception/secretarial jobs can often start around the 18k mark for junior positions.

You're asking for 23k but you have less than a years experience. Yes, you may have excellent admin/computer skills but your experience doesn't back that up so prospective employers are likely to overlook you for people who have more.

cronos

What is your degree in exactly?

It's in French and Spanish.

I get it about the experience thing, but I found it amusing when I went in for one of those typing/Word/spelling tests and the woman in the agency was amazed at my scores. I mean, I have a degree in languages which required a billion essays and a zillion translations a week, of course I can type and use Word and spell words like 'business' ffs. I would have been ashamed if I hadn't got 50/50! It's really odd how they don't associate degree skills with these real life skills. I could have left school at 17, got a year's experience in an office and would have been able to demand 24K, but 4 years in college and 9 months solid experience isn't good enough to ask for more than minimum wage McDonalds type salaries? I know it's all about actual experience and proof of what you can do, but it just seems ridiculous.

cronos

[quote=[Deleted User];55552809]It's in French and Spanish.

I get it about the experience thing, but I found it amusing when I went in for one of those typing/Word/spelling tests and the woman in the agency was amazed at my scores. I mean, I have a degree in languages which required a billion essays and a zillion translations a week, of course I can type and use Word and spell words like 'business' ffs. I would have been ashamed if I hadn't got 50/50! It's really odd how they don't associate degree skills with these real life skills. I could have left school at 17, got a year's experience in an office and would have been able to demand 24K, but 4 years in college and 9 months solid experience isn't good enough to ask for more than minimum wage McDonalds type salaries? I know it's all about actual experience and proof of what you can do, but it just seems ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Its because your job requires neither french or spanish. Go do tech support for a company that needs someone who speaks both english and whatever language. Sec's are poorly paid in generall. They would prob teach you the tech side of things and give you more money.

I've just come out of customer service (call centre), and the pay was horrendous. All the language jobs in Dublin seem to be call centre jobs and the salaries are ridiculously low for the job you do. I got tired of having to speak English, French or Spanish at a moment's notice for about 10 quid an hour.

cronos

[quote=[Deleted User];55552850]I've just come out of customer service (call centre), and the pay was horrendous. All the language jobs in Dublin seem to be call centre jobs and the salaries are ridiculously low for the job you do. I got tired of having to speak English, French or Spanish at a moment's notice for about 10 quid an hour.[/QUOTE]

O I thought they would pay well to be honest. I have never really looked in to it though. I have a computer science degree and am starting on 30k. Thought the Level 1 helpdesk people with language jobs would be on around 25k. Perhaps it might be worth considering a masters in a new area.

CuLT

[quote=[Deleted User];55551333]I've been applying for loads of jobs recently but not having much luck. I really don't think I'm being overly fussy at all.[/Quote]

Hey, I'm going to break up some parts of your post just for emphasis, not an attack in case you think I'm picking on you!

I have a high 2:1 Hons degree (in French and Spanish)

7 months solid customer service/admin/database entry and before that receptionist experience.

I'm looking for any kind of reception/admin work with a salary of 23K+.

Your main problem here is that your qualification bears little to no relevance to what you're looking for, so you're applying for a job with 6 months customer service and no relevant qualifications. Almost everyone has customer service experience at some point.

When I worked in tech support I was surrounded by people with computing degrees (or 5+ years direct experience), a couple with masters and one with an engineering degree, and the base salary was 22k (while I was in college working towards a computing degree). They could afford to turn people away who didn't have a relevant degree or weren't working towards one. This is within the last couple of years too, not dot com burst or anything. Now it's not like all of these guys were just sitting around without looking for something better / more interesting, but they had the cop to know they weren't going to jump straight into a great job too.

I don't think less than 2k a month before tax is a huge salary at all.....just rent, bills and food alone come to over 1k. Should I just aim lower or should I keep asking?

It's not, but a lot of people get paid less than 23k a year with more relevant experience in similar jobs.

Xcellor wrote: »

I started 3 years ago on 20k as a tech support agent and had a couple of years of experience. Since that point ive been promoted a couple of times but still not breached 30k, sometimes you have to just bite the bullet at lower and hope your annual increases will keep up with inflation and maybe a bit more!

I really wouldn't sit around to be honest, no harm in being constantly looking for a better deal if you don't seem to be going anywhere.

stardust_dublin wrote: »

i think 23k is a low salary to be asking for considering you have a degree as well as at least 6 months experience. i didnt think salaries in that kind of industry were lower than that? how much lower could the salary be? 23k is at the lowest end of the scale for a job that requires a 3rd level degree(im presuming that it does)

6 months experience is two summer jobs worth, it is nothing. I'm guessing you're still in college, unless you're doing something science-related you're in for a bit of a shocker

[quote=[Deleted User];55552809]
I get it about the experience thing, but I found it amusing when I went in for one of those typing/Word/spelling tests and the woman in the agency was amazed at my scores. I mean, I have a degree in languages which required a billion essays and a zillion translations a week, of course I can type and use Word and spell words like 'business' ffs. I would have been ashamed if I hadn't got 50/50! [/Quote]
I would drop that particular attitude as soon as possible, you don't have a degree in particle physics and you're not looking to join CERN.

It's really odd how they don't associate degree skills with these real life skills.

When the degree isn't relevant, you may as well have no degree.

I could have left school at 17, got a year's experience in an office and would have been able to demand 24K,

Hah!

but 4 years in college and 9 months solid experience isn't good enough to ask for more than minimum wage McDonalds type salaries? I know it's all about actual experience and proof of what you can do, but it just seems ridiculous.

Shift paper / shift burger, what's the difference really? You really need to look for a relevant job or drop the "I have a degree attitude" fairly smartly because employers will just drop you instead.

Degrees != high salary, especially when you're looking for work that does not require a degree.

People with a good, in demand, BSc. will probably not comprehend this problem, as they're more likely to get a relevant job straight out of college (though it's hardly a guarantee).

If you're interested in teaching, get a H.Dip and you can probably start into a teaching job for 30k.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Some ideas.

Teaching could be an option as a previous poster says, you would be starting off on far more pay.

Or what about working with a Software localisation company? I'm sure they would need people with your skills.

MIN2511

I don't think 23k is too much to ask but in an industry filled withl Temps why hire a permanent staff when you can hire a temp?


Would you consider a Masters?

dudara

MIN2511 wrote: »

I don't think 23k is too much to ask but in an industry filled withl Temps why hire a permanent staff when you can hire a temp?

Because temps are actually quite expensive to hire through agencies. It's cheaper in the long run to hire someone.

MIN2511

dudara wrote: »

Because temps are actually quite expensive to hire through agencies. It's cheaper in the long run to hire someone.

True, but the training and lack of packages is cheaper in the long run....

dudara

MIN2511 wrote: »

True, but the training and lack of packages is cheaper in the long run....

Temps also often walk out the door one day, leaving you in the lurch until you source someone else to fill the position.

The security of having a full-time employee in a position is invaluable. It's not all about the money either.

AARRRGH

My flatmate:

19 years old, no college, no experience.

She works for Microsoft as a Danish call centre type person for 28k.

IMO 23k is fairly low. However customer service type jobs always pay **** money.

Why not apply for a better job?

MIN2511

dudara wrote: »

Temps also often walk out the door one day, leaving you in the lurch until you source someone else to fill the position.

The security of having a full-time employee in a position is invaluable. It's not all about the money either.

Really, isn't it all about money?? What am trying to say is most employees would rather hire contractors or temps than permanent staff

Dublindude; your flat mate has more expereince than the OP

nesf

dublindude wrote: »

My flatmate:

19 years old, no college, no experience.

She works for Microsoft as a Danish call centre type person for 28k.

Can she speak Danish fluently? If so that is relevant experience pretty much.


Personally I think the OP is being unrealistic. You might be able to land a job above 23K but it wouldn't be the norm and I don't think you'll do yourself any favours by sitting around waiting to get lucky. That and a high 2.1 in an Arts degree isn't really a big deal at all. I'd advise getting over it and accepting smaller pay and building up your CV a bit before expecting higher pay.

That or try teaching or work that requires French/Spanish though it's unlikely that you have a high degree of fluency (3rd level degrees in this country in languages contrary to popular belief don't produce fluent students on average, there are exceptions to this and the OP might be one of them but they're fairly rare unless the degree involves a year abroad in one of the countries and the student works hard on the language while over there).

vodkasoda

My daughter left school a couple of years ago, went to Art college but didn't like it, so stopped after about 4 months, she then went to Australia for 2 or 3 months.

When she came back she got a job as an Admin assistant, or something like that, for a company by Croke Park, for €23,500 pa ... unfortunately, the journey from Shankill every day was getting her down, so after about 6 months there, she left and looked for a nearer job.

She found one within about a month, in Bray, paying almost identical money.

My point is, no, you're not being unrealistic about your wage demands and/or expectations. There are companies out there who are willing to pay that kind of money, and probably more if you're patient, regardless of degrees and/or experience ... confidence, self-belief and being able to sell yourself are your best friends !!!

I just KNEW I'd get someone like you.

Shift paper / shift burger, what's the difference really? You really need to look for a relevant job or drop the "I have a degree attitude" fairly smartly because employers will just drop you instead.

Degrees != high salary, especially when you're looking for work that does not require a degree.

I DON'T have that attitude. If I did, would I be looking for admin and temp work? Would I have done an Arts degree in the first place if I wanted to be a millionaire? I hardly think I'm being unreasonable in thinking a degree might count for SOMETHING to show I'm reasonably intelligent and have skills. I intend to go back to college for a Master's when I can afford it - for the moment I have undergrad loans to pay back and just need a reasonably salary, and to gain more work experience. I've worked in all kinds of jobs, I've waitressed, I've worked in kitchens, and I've cleaned toilets, so please stop implying I think I'm too good for things and expect to walk into a great job.

I would drop that particular attitude as soon as possible, you don't have a degree in particle physics and you're not looking to join CERN.

Eh, no, I don't. I'm not looking to join fecking NASA. I just find it amusing that people are so surprised that a language graduate can spell some very simple English words. I think you're totally wrong about 'you might as well have no degree if it isn't relevant.' Surely it at least shows you have the ability to learn, you can motivate yourself, organise yourself, spell, type, etc? I don't mind doing the tests at all, it's just the surprise that I actually have skills that shocked me. Are degrees really that undervalued, that they think people graduate without being able to spell or understand simple instructions?

Stop acting like I'm asking for the world here. I'm not walking into the UN and demanding a job as a translator because I speak 3 languages. I'm not asking for 40K because I'm a graduate. I'm asking for what I consider a perfectly reasonable salary for the type of work I'm looking for. 23K is NOT a lot of money for living in Dublin. I'm well aware of the fact I don't have much experience (although 9-10 months solid relevant experience isn't 'nothing') but I really don't believe for a second that I'm expected to work for 19K and that I have a nerve to ask for more. It would be one thing if it WERE an internship at the UN and invaluable experience for me, but it's a bog standard kind of admin job and the going rate is at least 23K.

Can she speak Danish fluently? If so that is relevant experience pretty much.

In my last company they only paid 21,000 to all the CSRs with languages. If dublindude's friend had gone to work there, she'd have only gotten 21K. She obviously thought she deserved more, and managed to get it. In my company there were people with about 5 languages all working for 21K.

That or try teaching or work that requires French/Spanish though it's unlikely that you have a high degree of fluency (3rd level degrees in this country in languages contrary to popular belief don't produce fluent students on average, there are exceptions to this and the OP might be one of them but they're fairly rare unless the degree involves a year abroad in one of the countries and the student works hard on the language while over there).

I have done a job that required French and Spanish and the salary was awful. I had no problem doing it for nearly 8 months, being fresh out of college, but it was going absolutely nowhere. Now that I do have that experience, I thought I could ask for a little more and take on more tasks. Most of the 'language' jobs pay the same kind of salary though, and the work is totally mindnumbing so I wanted to stay away from call centre type stuff.

I disagree with your comments about language students - yes some people are rubbish but there are plenty of people who ARE fluent. Loads of people go away for a year - I did, and I also worked abroad every summer. I've been learning French since I was 6 or 7, it's not like you can just start it in college like you would with business or something.

I'm seriously considering teaching English as a Second Language though, looking into some courses now!

ntlbell

[quote=[Deleted User];55556230]I just KNEW I'd get someone like you.
[/quote]

I wouldn't hire you solely because you have an awful attitude.

[quote=[Deleted User];55556230]

ink you're totally wrong about 'you might as well have no degree if it isn't relevant.' Surely it at least shows you have the ability to learn, you can motivate yourself, organise yourself, spell, type, etc?
I'm asking for what I consider a perfectly reasonable salary for the type of work I'm looking for. 23K is NOT a lot of money for living in Dublin. I'm well aware of the fact I don't have much experience (although 9-10 months solid relevant experience isn't 'nothing') but I really don't believe for a second that I'm expected to work for 19K and that I have a nerve to ask for more. It would be one thing if it WERE an internship at the UN and invaluable experience for me, but it's a bog standard kind of admin job and the going rate is at least 23K.[/quote]

"the youth of today, you don't know you're alive"

You don't decide what's an acceptable salary for a job the market does.

If they're people with no degree doing the same job for less than your demanding why should they pay you because you have a degree?

A degree is totally irrelevant to an employer unless it was geared towards the job.

A job that requires junior cert English doesn't need someone with a 4 year degree in pants.

I do not have an awful attitude. I just don't see why I can't get a job because I'm 'overqualified' for it. If I'm happy to do the job at that salary, why is it such a problem? Am I going to have to go back to cleaning toilets or making beds because I can't get an admin job at 23K that I'm clearly capable of doing? All I'm asking is to be able to live off my salary! I'd rather not move abroad but it's looking increasingly like I'll have to. Or fabricate a CV with false experience?

The agency I was with yesterday seemed to think I was underselling myself - they said 24K was more than reasonable for a decent receptionist or admin, and that I should look for higher! I said I'll take what I can get once I can live off it

and by the way, you're totally missing the point here

You don't decide what's an acceptable salary for a job the market does.

Eh I know that. These jobs are advertised at 23K+. My cousin walked out of school and got one for just over 23K, at 17. That's all I'm asking for, but apparently that's asking too much. I never said I was asking for more than anyone else, you'd just like to think that. I'm asking for a fair chance to do a job I can do as well as my cousin, for the same pay.

MIN2511

[quote=[Deleted User];55556501]

My cousin walked out of school and got one for just over 23K, at 17. That's all I'm asking for, but apparently that's asking too much. I never said I was asking for more than anyone else, you'd just like to think that. I'm asking for a fair chance to do a job I can do as well as my cousin, for the same pay.[/quote]

Right! This is turning into an argument which isn’t necessary; your cousin got a job that offered 23k right out of college? What did your cousin study, what industry are they in, what occupation? All these are factors to consider; I studied Computer Science and would earn more than 23k.
By the way has it occurred to you that maybe your CV is what is letting you down? You come across as overconfident!

Out of SCHOOL, not college. Just Leaving Cert.

And I am anything BUT overconfident. I might come across so here because I'm so frustrated - in real life I'm constantly told to sell myself more. MY CV has the basics - my degree result and the last few jobs I've had, with brief descriptions of responsibilities, tasks carried out, etc. I've gone to a few interviews, and was told there's nothing I can improve on interview wise, they just feel I'm overqualified as the job doesn't require a degree, and that they feel I'll leave and move onto something else within a year. Which I probably would, to be honest. I'm starting to seriously look into temping, for 3 month or 6 month contracts - it seems to be the way to go if you want the salary I'm looking for.

I don't know if this is a Dublin thing or not. My mum works in the Civil Service in the North, and most people there have degrees, even though they aren't required, and they all make 24-26K. I would really prefer to stay here if possible.

ntlbell

[quote=[Deleted User];55556501]
The agency I was with yesterday seemed to think I was underselling myself - they said 24K was more than reasonable for a decent receptionist or admin, and that I should look for higher! I said I'll take what I can get once I can live off it
[/quote]

A "decent" recep/admin usually has more than 9 months expirience.

9 months in real terms is as close to "nothing" as it gets.

Well, this is a recruitment agency, and this is their job. And they didn't feel like I was asking for too much at all, having seen my CV. I asked them if they thought my salary expectations were too high and they said not at all, that they were on the low end of what someone with my qualifications and experience would ask for. I don't see what they'd really have to gain by saying that. I'm aware it's the opposite of what the other agency said - this is a better agency though, afaik.

I don't know how much difference it makes, but the experience I have is 'good' experience, in very reputable companies they would have heard of - they commented on that, and I have all those computer qualifications for Word, front office packages etc as well, don't know if it's overly relevant or not.

kmick

Dont listen to all the naysayers and definitely dont believe a word agencies say. Remember the client are paying them so they have a vested interest. 23k is not unreasonable for someone of your calibre. As previously said try temping. While you dont get all the benefits you get a higher hourly wage. If you want PM me and i will send you on the details of an agency my sister temps for. I think they pay her 12 an hour. And she gets offered more work than she can do as she is also a student so Im sure the work is there. You can use her name and tell the agency she put you in touch if you want.

eur12/hr x 7.5 hours x 220* working days = 20k

*I used this as a guide when I was contract but you can work more

ntlbell

[quote=[Deleted User];55557042]Well, this is a recruitment agency, and this is their job. And they didn't feel like I was asking for too much at all, having seen my CV. I asked them if they thought my salary expectations were too high and they said not at all, that they were on the low end of what someone with my qualifications and experience would ask for. I don't see what they'd really have to gain by saying that. I'm aware it's the opposite of what the other agency said - this is a better agency though, afaik.

I don't know how much difference it makes, but the experience I have is 'good' experience, in very reputable companies they would have heard of - they commented on that, and I have all those computer qualifications for Word, front office packages etc as well, don't know if it's overly relevant or not.[/quote]

oh well then, nothing to worry about should be a nice job for you very soon with the exact money your looking for and no need for this thread.

After all, the agency said so.

Lizzykins

I would think 23k is about right for junior admin jobs. Just look at the starting salaries of Clerical Officer or admin jobs in the HSE and it's all 23k in the job ads.

ntlbell

Lizzykins wrote: »

I would think 23k is about right for junior admin jobs. Just look at the starting salaries of Clerical Officer or admin jobs in the HSE and it's all 23k in the job ads.

lol..the hse...lol

CuLT

[quote=[Deleted User];55556230]I just KNEW I'd get someone like you.[/Quote]

Sorry that you took it up wrong. Keep on truckin'.

AARRRGH

OP: Earning a good salary is a fairly slow process. My first couple of jobs were poorly paid, even though I had decent qualifications.

If I were you I'd take a long term view and try to get experience rather than money. The thing about working in customer service/etc. is you'll always earn **** money. It might be a good idea to try to get out of this area completely.

I didn't, lol. I appreciate constructive criticism but I just can't agree with the mentality that a degree is totally worthless unless it's directly related to the job. They really seem to be undervalued here. Where I'm from, a degree, any degree, is appreciated as it shows dedication, motivation and all that. A person with a degree will usually get a job over a person without one, even an admin job. The majority of languages graduates don't use their languages directly, but the degree gets them in the doors of companies along with work experience, especially experience in dealing with people.
Here, it just seems like people see education as a waste of time, since they're surprised you've even learned how to spell at the end of it. Quite bizarre. It's not about expecting a higher salary for a non graduate job, it's about expecting to get a chance at a job you're capable of despite having had the nerve to have furthered your education.

If I were you I'd take a long term view and try to get experience rather than money. The thing about working in customer service/etc. is you'll always earn **** money. It might be a good idea to try to get out of this area completely.

The last job I had was great for using my languages in a practical way but it eventually gets you down that you're expected to use 3 languages on a daily basis, deal with irate customers etc, for the same as other people are getting for doing some filing. That's why I decided to get out of customer service. If I'm going to get all that multilingual abuse, I'd rather be working on a Spanish campsite in the sun than in a call centre!

ntlbell

[quote=[Deleted User];55559298]I didn't, lol. I appreciate constructive criticism but I just can't agree with the mentality that a degree is totally worthless unless it's directly related to the job. They really seem to be undervalued here. Where I'm from, a degree, any degree, is appreciated as it shows dedication, motivation and all that. A person with a degree will usually get a job over a person without one, even an admin job. The majority of languages graduates don't use their languages directly, but the degree gets them in the doors of companies along with work experience, especially experience in dealing with people.
Here, it just seems like people see education as a waste of time, since they're surprised you've even learned how to spell at the end of it. Quite bizarre. It's not about expecting a higher salary for a non graduate job, it's about expecting to get a chance at a job you're capable of despite having had the nerve to have furthered your education.[/quote]

You're out of work and just out of college I assume?

A lot of people here are working a long time, have degree's have master's etc.

So you can think what you like. A degree doesn't undervalue you UNLESS the company are worried about you only working their until something comes up that is to do with your degree and you leave and they have to re-train and blah blah blah, but it doesn't ADD any value when unrelated to the job.

doing a degree can show some personality traits but so can a lot of other things that are RELATED to the job and are worth more.

If I'm hiring someone generally for technical roles I couldn't give two hoots what degree the person has it's not going to change what THE COMPANY view as the right salary and the right EDUCATION/EXPRIEINCE

if that's 6 months and no college it's 6 months and no college it's a masters and 6 years exp that's what it.

At this stage I don't even know what you want to know?

Is there well paid jobs out there of course.

Can you get them without exp, of course.

Can you get them with the attitude of a spoilt child?

No.

Lots of other reasons, you'll have to find the one that's stopping you.

board om

tbh i find your degree only ever comes into play in the first couple of jobs out of college, then work experience takes over. so by the time you are mid twenties companies wouldnt be asking about your eduaction in an interview, they would be asking about your work experience. obviously some industries would prefer that employees had a degree, but it would have to be a degree that is relevant to the position you are applying for, i.e. if you are applying for a position in marketing they expect a marketing degree, for IT positions they expect some sort of degree in IT, they wouldnt accept someone with a degree in art just becuase they have a degree. it has to be specific to the position applied for.

by the time i was mid twenties i was working with a team people who had degrees in business studies, commerce, hotel & tourism, law, and some had no degrees at all. but we were all doing the same job. in other words there were people who had spent 3-4 years in college studying commerce just to end up working along side people who had left school after their leaving cert. all were on roughly the same salary (give or take a few quid), and all had the same opputuniy for promotion. but the promotion was down to their work, not education. i was promoted way ahead of people that were a lot more educated than i was, on paper anyway.

basically as another poster said, your degree is only relevant if you are applying for a position that your degree is required for, otherwise it is just a piece of paper. and even then you only have a few years of it being useful for the relevant roles becuase eventually work experience will mean more. the only company i can think of off hand that will only take employees with a degree is Google. to my knowledge you have to have a degree to work in google. and for some posiitons it doesnt matter what your degree is in, just as long as you have one.

maybe you should try google OP.

I'm a spoiled child because I don't want to work for a pittance? Right. I have a nerve to think I might be able to get an admin job I'm perfectly capable of doing for the rates advertised instead of 4 grand less just because I have a degree and 1 year's experience instead of 5 years experience? Yep, spoiled brat indeed. How DARE I want more than the minimum wage so I don't have to eat plain pasta from Lidl every night? You obviously haven't met many spoiled people with a sense of entitlement if you think I'm one. Maybe it's because I didn't grew up here that I managed to avoid the horrid Irish begrudging attitude towards anyone who thinks they might be worth more than the minimum wage after doing a degree and years of minimum wage jobs. If I WERE a spoiled child, I'd be doing a nice cushy internship in some embassy on Mammy and Daddy's dime, like half my college class, but I've my college loans to pay back, and my rent to pay, and I'm trying to scrape together money for a Master's in my field so I CAN finally do the jobs I really enjoy.

Obviously if it becomes clear I will not get a job with this salary, I'll go down another route. I'd have absolutely no hassle getting one up North, or abroad (was offered a 24K job in Japan but turned it down to stay here), or maybe suck it up for a while and stay here for less money if it seems worth it. But only a complete idiot would just accept that they couldn't ask for a higher salary without even trying. What an earth is wrong with trying?

basically as another poster said, your degree is only relevant if you are applying for a position that your degree is required for, otherwise it is just a piece of paper. and even then you only have a few years of it being useful for the relevant roles becuase eventually work experience will mean more. the only company i can think of off hand that will only take employees with a degree is Google. to my knowledge you have to have a degree to work in google. and for some posiitons it doesnt matter what your degree is in, just as long as you have one.

Loads of companies value any degree, to get in the door. Several of my ex classmates have just gone into graduate schemes starting off on 24K, but gaining experience, etc. Most of them require you to commit to X years with them which put me off, as I'm not sure about doing a Master's but it might be the way to go. At least then the degree isn't seen as a waste of time!

newestUser

[quote=[Deleted User];55559298]I didn't, lol. I appreciate constructive criticism but I just can't agree with the mentality that a degree is totally worthless unless it's directly related to the job. They really seem to be undervalued here. Where I'm from, a degree, any degree, is appreciated as it shows dedication, motivation and all that....Here, it just seems like people see education as a waste of time, since they're surprised you've even learned how to spell at the end of it. [/QUOTE]

I feel your frustration. I think you're letting it get the better of you, and the manner in which you're posting is causing people to view what you're saying in a harsh light.

But stop saying *I* think a degree is valuable because, *I* think a degree makes you a better employee because, *I* think a degree is sign of such and such a virtue. What you think is irrelevant. What employers think matters. If you feel you can get more than what's been on the table up to this point, fine, go get it. But if you can't, just accept it.

Gordon

[quote=[Deleted User];55557042]Well, this is a recruitment agency, and this is their job. And they didn't feel like I was asking for too much at all, having seen my CV. I asked them if they thought my salary expectations were too high and they said not at all, that they were on the low end of what someone with my qualifications and experience would ask for. I don't see what they'd really have to gain by saying that. I'm aware it's the opposite of what the other agency said - this is a better agency though, afaik.
[/QUOTE]
I don't trust any agency any more, I find taking a large bag of salt on my shoulder to an agency meeting is beneficial. My typing skills aren't great (62wpm iirc) but I blew away two agencies with my typing speed. I blew them away, they "hadn't seen typing that great ever". Now that's a bit fishy imo.

However, in saying that, have you tried telling this agency that you like their business methods and have been researching their company and are very interested in learning how to apply for a job in said recruitment agency?

Yeah, definitely. I'm just frustrated because I really don't believe 20K is the best I can ask for, and I'm really not someone who overestimates their abilities (everyone says I do the opposite). Obviously if every employer thinks the same, and that's how it is, and I can take it or leave it and look elsewhere for employment. But I really believe I can do better and see no harm in asking for it.

crip17

Get off your lazy arse and waken up and give yourself a shake. Stop thinking your 2:1 is so great. Ive news for ya its not. I got a 2:1 as well, but its practical work experience and positive attitude you need.
Trust me you wont get much more up here with your attitude. get a grip of yourself and wake up to the real world

CuLT

[quote=[Deleted User];55559298]I didn't, lol. I appreciate constructive criticism but I just can't agree with the mentality that a degree is totally worthless unless it's directly related to the job. They really seem to be undervalued here. Where I'm from, a degree, any degree, is appreciated as it shows dedication, motivation and all that. A person with a degree will usually get a job over a person without one, even an admin job. The majority of languages graduates don't use their languages directly, but the degree gets them in the doors of companies along with work experience, especially experience in dealing with people.
Here, it just seems like people see education as a waste of time, since they're surprised you've even learned how to spell at the end of it. Quite bizarre. It's not about expecting a higher salary for a non graduate job, it's about expecting to get a chance at a job you're capable of despite having had the nerve to have furthered your education.[/QUOTE]
Whereabouts are you from, out of interest? Did you get your degree in Ireland?
This may be a little sweeping, but I imagine that because it's expected that one will go on to third level education after secondary in this country, it undervalues the "general qualities" of possessing a degree that employers used to have.

If you're from the states you have my sympathies, some extravagant fees for college over there; remember, we pay a total of <€1000 per year for college, so monetarily it's not even a strain on resources, that kind of money can easily be funded by a summer job if ones parents can't do it.

[quote=[Deleted User];55559830]But only a complete idiot would just accept that they couldn't ask for a higher salary without even trying. What an earth is wrong with trying?[/QUOTE]
For what it's worth, I think this is an awesome attitude to have; there's too many people who will settle with what they've got because it's easy to do so.

I think maybe you're just giving the impression that you're not working at the moment (which I can't tell); I think the attitude you're getting from some of the older folks is perhaps due to them thinking you're basically ignoring any work until a specific opportunity arises. Which would be bad simply from a financial perspective (and it's a hard learned lesson for a lot of people).

AARRRGH

The problem is:

1. You have practically no experience
2. You are young
3. You are working in a poorly paid area (customer service, etc.)

Get off your lazy arse and waken up and give yourself a shake. Stop thinking your 2:1 is so great. Ive news for ya its not. I got a 2:1 as well, but its practical work experience and positive attitude you need.
Trust me you wont get much more up here with your attitude. get a grip of yourself and wake up to the real world

Eh yes I know that. I was 1% off a 1st, but even if I'd gotten a 1st, I wouldn't have expected great jobs to fall in my lap. I'm not that stupid. I do have quite a lot of work experience - problem is, it's loads of different, random things, so I'm trying to get a year or so of solid admin experience.

Whereabouts are you from, out of interest? Did you get your degree in Ireland?

Everywhere, LOL. I've lived in a few different places, but got my degree in Ireland. I had to take out student loans from the UK, since I resided in the North, for the registration fee, and living costs are really expensive in Dublin when you can't work full time.

I think maybe you're just giving the impression that you're not working at the moment (which I can't tell); I think the attitude you're getting from some of the older folks is perhaps due to them thinking you're basically ignoring any work until a specific opportunity arises. Which would be bad simply from a financial perspective (and it's a hard learned lesson for a lot of people).

No, I am working. I've given in my notice, and my work let me just leave a bit early to go to interviews, since I've already trained a girl in for my job. It was just too hard to go to interviews while I already had a full time job tbh.

Dudess

Hi Izzy,

Unfortunately, and I'm certainly not having a go at you, but, €23,000 is too much to expect at your first job. I know, it doesn't seem logical because it's not much money at all, but I would think €21,000 is the absolute maximum you could expect at your level. I recently went for a position with the Health Information and Quality Authority at a starting rate of well under €24,000 and I have over three years' full-time administrative experience and four and a half years' part-time administrative experience, as well as being educated to masters level... and I didn't get it! (I went back to college as a mature student and I'm a few years "behind" a lot of people my age but I don't give a sh1t, I'm not motivated by money anyway).

Not trying to be a downer, but it just seems to be the reality at the moment. For administration, work experience is definitely what an employer will look for, and you simply don't have enough. You're up against people with two, three years and more.

It's true: in this country your degree is only of interest to employers if it's required for the position. You say you'll be doing a masters in time, so the work you're looking for is a means to an end, therefore you can't really expect your degree to be taken into account.

Someone mentioned Google, which only takes on those who have at least a degree, but I don't see anything on offer there at the moment that would be suitable for you - e.g. bilingual customer service/support. But if you know anyone in there, give them your CV because I would presume being bilingual and having your degree would put you at quite an advantage, and it's supposed to be such a great company. Again though, I've heard the money isn't that astonishing.

But to reiterate, I don't think you're being realistic expecting €23,000. I'm not saying you're spoilt or have a bad attitude or any of that sh1te (take no notice of those people who are attacking you - they're obviously not reading your posts properly or putting themselves in your shoes and if they get that easily wound up by someone else's problem which has nothing to do with them, they've got issues tbh) but I'd suggest, if you don't mind, that you might be a bit misinformed and naive regarding conditions for a person just entering the jobs market. I really don't mean to be condescending but you're promised you'll inherit the earth if you get a degree and unfortunately it's not like that for those of us with arts degrees...

I'm also bearing in mind your age - you're young yet and not fully familiar with this kind of stuff. Not trying to be a wise old woman but I'm guessing you're around 22 so I've got seven or eight years on you and have therefore learned more lessons on the sometimes disheartening reality when it comes to the world of work (I emphasise "sometimes" though).

But right now, stick with what you're doing and also try places like banks, building societies, insurance/assurance companies - don't just limit yourself to recruitment companies. You're a potential sale to them, nothing else, and you can't always trust them. I'm on to a few at the moment and I can easily hear the lies when on the phone to them. You've got to be very wary when dealing with recruitment consultants. Lay down the law a bit.

So lower your salary expectations, take what you get, and try to do a couple of night courses in computer skills to add a few more strings to your bow. Have you completed a typing course? If not, I'd suggest you do. It's highly beneficial to have a typing certificate. Or the ECDL - even better.

You'll manage financially. You spent four years' budgeting - excellent training! Best of luck...

nesf

[quote=[Deleted User];55556360]I disagree with your comments about language students - yes some people are rubbish but there are plenty of people who ARE fluent. Loads of people go away for a year - I did, and I also worked abroad every summer. I've been learning French since I was 6 or 7, it's not like you can just start it in college like you would with business or something. [/QUOTE]

Exactly and the average language student in my experience simply doesn't put enough work in to get fluent in a foreign language. People like you who go abroad, work at the language over the long term are the exception, not the rule unfortunately. It's why language being taught at second level can be very "hit or miss" when it comes to how good the teacher is, the colleges simply aren't producing fluent people to teach the next generation unfortunately. It's similar to Irish, some second level teachers have an excellent grasp of the language, other's can barely manage to keep a class learning by rote etc.



[quote=[Deleted User];55556360]I'm seriously considering teaching English as a Second Language though, looking into some courses now![/QUOTE]

If you're young and have no real commitments then it can work really well. The money isn't fantastic but the people I've known who've done it really enjoyed it and while the money in Irish terms might be a bit crap, when converted to the local currency you're doing pretty well. Money and stuff might have changed, the people I knew who did it, did it a few years back but I'd still recommend it to people with the itch to travel.