Asking too much?

I've been applying for loads of jobs recently but not having much luck. I really don't think I'm being overly fussy at all. I have a high 2:1 Hons degree and nearly a year customer service/reception/phone experience, and I'm looking for any kind of reception/admin work with a salary of 23K+. A few recruitment agencies have implied I'm being too demanding with my salary expectations, stating that I don't have much experience. Obviously I can't have had 5 years as a secretary, because I went to college for 4 years, but since I finished college I've had 7 months solid customer service/admin/database entry and before that receptionist experience. I also have a good typing speed and excellent IT skills. Am I asking for too much here? Is it just too much to ask for this kind of job? I don't think less than 2k a month before tax is a huge salary at all.....just rent, bills and food alone come to over 1k. Should I just aim lower or should I keep asking?

Xcellor

I started 3 years ago on 20k as a tech support agent and had a couple of years of experience. Since that point ive been promoted a couple of times but still not breached 30k, sometimes you have to just bite the bullet at lower and hope your annual increases will keep up with inflation and maybe a bit more!

stardust_dublin

i think 23k is a low salary to be asking for considering you have a degree as well as at least 6 months experience. i didnt think salaries in that kind of industry were lower than that? how much lower could the salary be? 23k is at the lowest end of the scale for a job that requires a 3rd level degree(im presuming that it does)

That's what I thought. These aren't necessarily all graduate level jobs though. I did languages, so it's really hard to find something directly related to my degree at the moment, it's not like engineering or medicine. I did think I'd be able to get some position in a decent company though, or at least get a reasonably paid admin job. I just can't understand why they're acting like 23k is a lot of money. It's not awful, but it's certainly not great at all. It's not as if I've come out of college with an arts degree and am expecting 40k.

gerire

My gf is sitting beside me here and is saying to go for temping for a while when looking for a fulltime placement.
The benefits of temping is that although you may be on the move around a fair bit you are going to get so much vital experience in many different systems that are used around industry, also if you are a good worker a company will be keen to keep you, My gf has been offered in a 3 month period, in 3 different jobs, an offer of full time work and also further college training if she wanted;

I feel a good rule of thumb is that if you think you are worth it, be strong and hold out for it

The only thing is I was worried that temping might leave me periods with no work and I'll always have rent, bills etc to pay, and also I'm supposed to notify a student loan company anytime I'm in paid employment, and make repayments based on my salary, which could be awkward.......

I'm definitely not against temping though, my friend gets over 15e/hour for basic admin! Would Mary B etc be good places to look? (Have an interview with them soon)

Chinafoot

I think you're being a bit unrealistic here in your salary expectations to be honest. A lot of reception/secretarial jobs can often start around the 18k mark for junior positions.

You're asking for 23k but you have less than a years experience. Yes, you may have excellent admin/computer skills but your experience doesn't back that up so prospective employers are likely to overlook you for people who have more.

cronos

What is your degree in exactly?

It's in French and Spanish.

I get it about the experience thing, but I found it amusing when I went in for one of those typing/Word/spelling tests and the woman in the agency was amazed at my scores. I mean, I have a degree in languages which required a billion essays and a zillion translations a week, of course I can type and use Word and spell words like 'business' ffs. I would have been ashamed if I hadn't got 50/50! It's really odd how they don't associate degree skills with these real life skills. I could have left school at 17, got a year's experience in an office and would have been able to demand 24K, but 4 years in college and 9 months solid experience isn't good enough to ask for more than minimum wage McDonalds type salaries? I know it's all about actual experience and proof of what you can do, but it just seems ridiculous.

cronos

[quote=[Deleted User];55552809]It's in French and Spanish.

I get it about the experience thing, but I found it amusing when I went in for one of those typing/Word/spelling tests and the woman in the agency was amazed at my scores. I mean, I have a degree in languages which required a billion essays and a zillion translations a week, of course I can type and use Word and spell words like 'business' ffs. I would have been ashamed if I hadn't got 50/50! It's really odd how they don't associate degree skills with these real life skills. I could have left school at 17, got a year's experience in an office and would have been able to demand 24K, but 4 years in college and 9 months solid experience isn't good enough to ask for more than minimum wage McDonalds type salaries? I know it's all about actual experience and proof of what you can do, but it just seems ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Its because your job requires neither french or spanish. Go do tech support for a company that needs someone who speaks both english and whatever language. Sec's are poorly paid in generall. They would prob teach you the tech side of things and give you more money.

I've just come out of customer service (call centre), and the pay was horrendous. All the language jobs in Dublin seem to be call centre jobs and the salaries are ridiculously low for the job you do. I got tired of having to speak English, French or Spanish at a moment's notice for about 10 quid an hour.

cronos

[quote=[Deleted User];55552850]I've just come out of customer service (call centre), and the pay was horrendous. All the language jobs in Dublin seem to be call centre jobs and the salaries are ridiculously low for the job you do. I got tired of having to speak English, French or Spanish at a moment's notice for about 10 quid an hour.[/QUOTE]

O I thought they would pay well to be honest. I have never really looked in to it though. I have a computer science degree and am starting on 30k. Thought the Level 1 helpdesk people with language jobs would be on around 25k. Perhaps it might be worth considering a masters in a new area.

CuLT

[quote=[Deleted User];55551333]I've been applying for loads of jobs recently but not having much luck. I really don't think I'm being overly fussy at all.[/Quote]

Hey, I'm going to break up some parts of your post just for emphasis, not an attack in case you think I'm picking on you!

I have a high 2:1 Hons degree (in French and Spanish)

7 months solid customer service/admin/database entry and before that receptionist experience.

I'm looking for any kind of reception/admin work with a salary of 23K+.

Your main problem here is that your qualification bears little to no relevance to what you're looking for, so you're applying for a job with 6 months customer service and no relevant qualifications. Almost everyone has customer service experience at some point.

When I worked in tech support I was surrounded by people with computing degrees (or 5+ years direct experience), a couple with masters and one with an engineering degree, and the base salary was 22k (while I was in college working towards a computing degree). They could afford to turn people away who didn't have a relevant degree or weren't working towards one. This is within the last couple of years too, not dot com burst or anything. Now it's not like all of these guys were just sitting around without looking for something better / more interesting, but they had the cop to know they weren't going to jump straight into a great job too.

I don't think less than 2k a month before tax is a huge salary at all.....just rent, bills and food alone come to over 1k. Should I just aim lower or should I keep asking?

It's not, but a lot of people get paid less than 23k a year with more relevant experience in similar jobs.

Xcellor wrote: »

I started 3 years ago on 20k as a tech support agent and had a couple of years of experience. Since that point ive been promoted a couple of times but still not breached 30k, sometimes you have to just bite the bullet at lower and hope your annual increases will keep up with inflation and maybe a bit more!

I really wouldn't sit around to be honest, no harm in being constantly looking for a better deal if you don't seem to be going anywhere.

stardust_dublin wrote: »

i think 23k is a low salary to be asking for considering you have a degree as well as at least 6 months experience. i didnt think salaries in that kind of industry were lower than that? how much lower could the salary be? 23k is at the lowest end of the scale for a job that requires a 3rd level degree(im presuming that it does)

6 months experience is two summer jobs worth, it is nothing. I'm guessing you're still in college, unless you're doing something science-related you're in for a bit of a shocker

[quote=[Deleted User];55552809]
I get it about the experience thing, but I found it amusing when I went in for one of those typing/Word/spelling tests and the woman in the agency was amazed at my scores. I mean, I have a degree in languages which required a billion essays and a zillion translations a week, of course I can type and use Word and spell words like 'business' ffs. I would have been ashamed if I hadn't got 50/50! [/Quote]
I would drop that particular attitude as soon as possible, you don't have a degree in particle physics and you're not looking to join CERN.

It's really odd how they don't associate degree skills with these real life skills.

When the degree isn't relevant, you may as well have no degree.

I could have left school at 17, got a year's experience in an office and would have been able to demand 24K,

Hah!

but 4 years in college and 9 months solid experience isn't good enough to ask for more than minimum wage McDonalds type salaries? I know it's all about actual experience and proof of what you can do, but it just seems ridiculous.

Shift paper / shift burger, what's the difference really? You really need to look for a relevant job or drop the "I have a degree attitude" fairly smartly because employers will just drop you instead.

Degrees != high salary, especially when you're looking for work that does not require a degree.

People with a good, in demand, BSc. will probably not comprehend this problem, as they're more likely to get a relevant job straight out of college (though it's hardly a guarantee).

If you're interested in teaching, get a H.Dip and you can probably start into a teaching job for 30k.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Some ideas.

Teaching could be an option as a previous poster says, you would be starting off on far more pay.

Or what about working with a Software localisation company? I'm sure they would need people with your skills.

MIN2511

I don't think 23k is too much to ask but in an industry filled withl Temps why hire a permanent staff when you can hire a temp?


Would you consider a Masters?

dudara

MIN2511 wrote: »

I don't think 23k is too much to ask but in an industry filled withl Temps why hire a permanent staff when you can hire a temp?

Because temps are actually quite expensive to hire through agencies. It's cheaper in the long run to hire someone.

MIN2511

dudara wrote: »

Because temps are actually quite expensive to hire through agencies. It's cheaper in the long run to hire someone.

True, but the training and lack of packages is cheaper in the long run....

dudara

MIN2511 wrote: »

True, but the training and lack of packages is cheaper in the long run....

Temps also often walk out the door one day, leaving you in the lurch until you source someone else to fill the position.

The security of having a full-time employee in a position is invaluable. It's not all about the money either.

AARRRGH

My flatmate:

19 years old, no college, no experience.

She works for Microsoft as a Danish call centre type person for 28k.

IMO 23k is fairly low. However customer service type jobs always pay **** money.

Why not apply for a better job?

MIN2511

dudara wrote: »

Temps also often walk out the door one day, leaving you in the lurch until you source someone else to fill the position.

The security of having a full-time employee in a position is invaluable. It's not all about the money either.

Really, isn't it all about money?? What am trying to say is most employees would rather hire contractors or temps than permanent staff

Dublindude; your flat mate has more expereince than the OP

nesf

dublindude wrote: »

My flatmate:

19 years old, no college, no experience.

She works for Microsoft as a Danish call centre type person for 28k.

Can she speak Danish fluently? If so that is relevant experience pretty much.


Personally I think the OP is being unrealistic. You might be able to land a job above 23K but it wouldn't be the norm and I don't think you'll do yourself any favours by sitting around waiting to get lucky. That and a high 2.1 in an Arts degree isn't really a big deal at all. I'd advise getting over it and accepting smaller pay and building up your CV a bit before expecting higher pay.

That or try teaching or work that requires French/Spanish though it's unlikely that you have a high degree of fluency (3rd level degrees in this country in languages contrary to popular belief don't produce fluent students on average, there are exceptions to this and the OP might be one of them but they're fairly rare unless the degree involves a year abroad in one of the countries and the student works hard on the language while over there).

vodkasoda

My daughter left school a couple of years ago, went to Art college but didn't like it, so stopped after about 4 months, she then went to Australia for 2 or 3 months.

When she came back she got a job as an Admin assistant, or something like that, for a company by Croke Park, for €23,500 pa ... unfortunately, the journey from Shankill every day was getting her down, so after about 6 months there, she left and looked for a nearer job.

She found one within about a month, in Bray, paying almost identical money.

My point is, no, you're not being unrealistic about your wage demands and/or expectations. There are companies out there who are willing to pay that kind of money, and probably more if you're patient, regardless of degrees and/or experience ... confidence, self-belief and being able to sell yourself are your best friends !!!

I just KNEW I'd get someone like you.

Shift paper / shift burger, what's the difference really? You really need to look for a relevant job or drop the "I have a degree attitude" fairly smartly because employers will just drop you instead.

Degrees != high salary, especially when you're looking for work that does not require a degree.

I DON'T have that attitude. If I did, would I be looking for admin and temp work? Would I have done an Arts degree in the first place if I wanted to be a millionaire? I hardly think I'm being unreasonable in thinking a degree might count for SOMETHING to show I'm reasonably intelligent and have skills. I intend to go back to college for a Master's when I can afford it - for the moment I have undergrad loans to pay back and just need a reasonably salary, and to gain more work experience. I've worked in all kinds of jobs, I've waitressed, I've worked in kitchens, and I've cleaned toilets, so please stop implying I think I'm too good for things and expect to walk into a great job.

I would drop that particular attitude as soon as possible, you don't have a degree in particle physics and you're not looking to join CERN.

Eh, no, I don't. I'm not looking to join fecking NASA. I just find it amusing that people are so surprised that a language graduate can spell some very simple English words. I think you're totally wrong about 'you might as well have no degree if it isn't relevant.' Surely it at least shows you have the ability to learn, you can motivate yourself, organise yourself, spell, type, etc? I don't mind doing the tests at all, it's just the surprise that I actually have skills that shocked me. Are degrees really that undervalued, that they think people graduate without being able to spell or understand simple instructions?

Stop acting like I'm asking for the world here. I'm not walking into the UN and demanding a job as a translator because I speak 3 languages. I'm not asking for 40K because I'm a graduate. I'm asking for what I consider a perfectly reasonable salary for the type of work I'm looking for. 23K is NOT a lot of money for living in Dublin. I'm well aware of the fact I don't have much experience (although 9-10 months solid relevant experience isn't 'nothing') but I really don't believe for a second that I'm expected to work for 19K and that I have a nerve to ask for more. It would be one thing if it WERE an internship at the UN and invaluable experience for me, but it's a bog standard kind of admin job and the going rate is at least 23K.

Can she speak Danish fluently? If so that is relevant experience pretty much.

In my last company they only paid 21,000 to all the CSRs with languages. If dublindude's friend had gone to work there, she'd have only gotten 21K. She obviously thought she deserved more, and managed to get it. In my company there were people with about 5 languages all working for 21K.

That or try teaching or work that requires French/Spanish though it's unlikely that you have a high degree of fluency (3rd level degrees in this country in languages contrary to popular belief don't produce fluent students on average, there are exceptions to this and the OP might be one of them but they're fairly rare unless the degree involves a year abroad in one of the countries and the student works hard on the language while over there).

I have done a job that required French and Spanish and the salary was awful. I had no problem doing it for nearly 8 months, being fresh out of college, but it was going absolutely nowhere. Now that I do have that experience, I thought I could ask for a little more and take on more tasks. Most of the 'language' jobs pay the same kind of salary though, and the work is totally mindnumbing so I wanted to stay away from call centre type stuff.

I disagree with your comments about language students - yes some people are rubbish but there are plenty of people who ARE fluent. Loads of people go away for a year - I did, and I also worked abroad every summer. I've been learning French since I was 6 or 7, it's not like you can just start it in college like you would with business or something.

I'm seriously considering teaching English as a Second Language though, looking into some courses now!

ntlbell

[quote=[Deleted User];55556230]I just KNEW I'd get someone like you.
[/quote]

I wouldn't hire you solely because you have an awful attitude.

[quote=[Deleted User];55556230]

ink you're totally wrong about 'you might as well have no degree if it isn't relevant.' Surely it at least shows you have the ability to learn, you can motivate yourself, organise yourself, spell, type, etc?
I'm asking for what I consider a perfectly reasonable salary for the type of work I'm looking for. 23K is NOT a lot of money for living in Dublin. I'm well aware of the fact I don't have much experience (although 9-10 months solid relevant experience isn't 'nothing') but I really don't believe for a second that I'm expected to work for 19K and that I have a nerve to ask for more. It would be one thing if it WERE an internship at the UN and invaluable experience for me, but it's a bog standard kind of admin job and the going rate is at least 23K.[/quote]

"the youth of today, you don't know you're alive"

You don't decide what's an acceptable salary for a job the market does.

If they're people with no degree doing the same job for less than your demanding why should they pay you because you have a degree?

A degree is totally irrelevant to an employer unless it was geared towards the job.

A job that requires junior cert English doesn't need someone with a 4 year degree in pants.

I do not have an awful attitude. I just don't see why I can't get a job because I'm 'overqualified' for it. If I'm happy to do the job at that salary, why is it such a problem? Am I going to have to go back to cleaning toilets or making beds because I can't get an admin job at 23K that I'm clearly capable of doing? All I'm asking is to be able to live off my salary! I'd rather not move abroad but it's looking increasingly like I'll have to. Or fabricate a CV with false experience?

The agency I was with yesterday seemed to think I was underselling myself - they said 24K was more than reasonable for a decent receptionist or admin, and that I should look for higher! I said I'll take what I can get once I can live off it

and by the way, you're totally missing the point here

You don't decide what's an acceptable salary for a job the market does.

Eh I know that. These jobs are advertised at 23K+. My cousin walked out of school and got one for just over 23K, at 17. That's all I'm asking for, but apparently that's asking too much. I never said I was asking for more than anyone else, you'd just like to think that. I'm asking for a fair chance to do a job I can do as well as my cousin, for the same pay.

MIN2511

[quote=[Deleted User];55556501]

My cousin walked out of school and got one for just over 23K, at 17. That's all I'm asking for, but apparently that's asking too much. I never said I was asking for more than anyone else, you'd just like to think that. I'm asking for a fair chance to do a job I can do as well as my cousin, for the same pay.[/quote]

Right! This is turning into an argument which isn’t necessary; your cousin got a job that offered 23k right out of college? What did your cousin study, what industry are they in, what occupation? All these are factors to consider; I studied Computer Science and would earn more than 23k.
By the way has it occurred to you that maybe your CV is what is letting you down? You come across as overconfident!

Out of SCHOOL, not college. Just Leaving Cert.

And I am anything BUT overconfident. I might come across so here because I'm so frustrated - in real life I'm constantly told to sell myself more. MY CV has the basics - my degree result and the last few jobs I've had, with brief descriptions of responsibilities, tasks carried out, etc. I've gone to a few interviews, and was told there's nothing I can improve on interview wise, they just feel I'm overqualified as the job doesn't require a degree, and that they feel I'll leave and move onto something else within a year. Which I probably would, to be honest. I'm starting to seriously look into temping, for 3 month or 6 month contracts - it seems to be the way to go if you want the salary I'm looking for.

I don't know if this is a Dublin thing or not. My mum works in the Civil Service in the North, and most people there have degrees, even though they aren't required, and they all make 24-26K. I would really prefer to stay here if possible.

ntlbell

[quote=[Deleted User];55556501]
The agency I was with yesterday seemed to think I was underselling myself - they said 24K was more than reasonable for a decent receptionist or admin, and that I should look for higher! I said I'll take what I can get once I can live off it
[/quote]

A "decent" recep/admin usually has more than 9 months expirience.

9 months in real terms is as close to "nothing" as it gets.

Well, this is a recruitment agency, and this is their job. And they didn't feel like I was asking for too much at all, having seen my CV. I asked them if they thought my salary expectations were too high and they said not at all, that they were on the low end of what someone with my qualifications and experience would ask for. I don't see what they'd really have to gain by saying that. I'm aware it's the opposite of what the other agency said - this is a better agency though, afaik.

I don't know how much difference it makes, but the experience I have is 'good' experience, in very reputable companies they would have heard of - they commented on that, and I have all those computer qualifications for Word, front office packages etc as well, don't know if it's overly relevant or not.

kmick

Dont listen to all the naysayers and definitely dont believe a word agencies say. Remember the client are paying them so they have a vested interest. 23k is not unreasonable for someone of your calibre. As previously said try temping. While you dont get all the benefits you get a higher hourly wage. If you want PM me and i will send you on the details of an agency my sister temps for. I think they pay her 12 an hour. And she gets offered more work than she can do as she is also a student so Im sure the work is there. You can use her name and tell the agency she put you in touch if you want.

eur12/hr x 7.5 hours x 220* working days = 20k

*I used this as a guide when I was contract but you can work more