Ryanair - Balancing the Boeing 737-800 series

r3nu4l

Right, a good few times I've been on Ryanair flights only to find that the seat trays are down in the first 3-4 rows and sometimes also the back 3-4 rows. No-one is allowed to sit there. Now, I don't have a problem with that, it doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is the reason they give for doing this:

'These seats are unavailable for use because we need to balance weight distribution in the aircraft', according to the cabin crew.

So is this true?

I ask because I've never seen it on EasyJet flights, even when the flight was half-empty! Also many business class lounges are in the front of an aircraft while the riff-raff are crammed into the back end (:D) so wouldn't this disturb the balance?

My own opinion on this is that the reason is bull. I think the real reason is that the cabin crew want to keep as many passengers as possible together as it makes it easier to serve passengers during the flight, and easier to clean the plane when everyone has disembarked.

I also think that it makes it easier to get people onto the aircraft when you don't have some spanner fiddling about in the aisle of Row 1

I'm happy to be wrong but would appreciate if anyone here knew the answer for sure!

Oriel

This was discussed quite recently actually.
Personally, I don't see how the weight of a few people would affect the overall balance of a 150 tonne plane.

r3nu4l

Oriel wrote: »

This was discussed quite recently actually.
Personally, I don't see how the weight of a few people would affect the overall balance of a 150 tonne plane.

Damn! Obviously didn't use the right keywords in search. Mods, feel free to merge with that thread if you can find it.

Oriel

r3nu4l wrote: »

Mods, feel free to merge with that thread if you can find it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055247584

r3nu4l

Pretty much answered my question but doesn't explain why EasyJet don't do it? I thought they used the 737-800 too. Maybe not.

RoundyMooney

Ah, if I merge, the two conversations will lose context. Belt away

OPENROAD

r3nu4l wrote: »

Right, a good few times I've been on Ryanair flights only to find that the seat trays are down in the first 3-4 rows and sometimes also the back 3-4 rows.

Are these left down for take off and landing?

Steyr

r3nu4l wrote: »

Pretty much answered my question but doesn't explain why EasyJet don't do it? I thought they used the 737-800 too. Maybe not.

http://www.easyjet.com/EN/About/Information/infopack_fleetinfo.html

Easyjet Info:

Aircraft and fleet information
The easyJet business model was built on the principle of one type of aircraft that can be utilised throughout the network, at anytime, by any crew. It appeared to be a contradiction when, in December 2002, easyJet signed a deal with Airbus to deliver 120 aircraft to the airline from September 2003 over five years, with 'price protection' on a further 120 Airbus A319 aircraft until 2012. There are a number of noticeable differences between the Boeing 737 and the Airbus A319. The Airbus is bigger and heavier (by some 4 tonnes), and is also around 14" wider. These additional inches create a wider aisle to allow crew and passengers to move around the cabin more easily, also helping to keep turnaround times to a minimum. In addition, the A319 has 156 seats, compared to 149 on the 737s, which means that each flight will require four members of cabin crew.

Year Airbus A319 Boeing 737 Total
2003 1 73 74
2004 21 71 92
2005 55 54 109
2006 87 35 122
2007 107 30 137

Oilrig

Steyr, which 737 variants are you using as a comparison to the 319?

Many 73 variants... not all "compete" with the 319...

FlutterinBantam

r3nu4l wrote: »

Pretty much answered my question but doesn't explain why EasyJet don't do it? I thought they used the 737-800 too. Maybe not.

Do EasyJet have seat selection at check in?
If there is seating at check in the weight and balance system can compute the c of g much more precisely as it knows where everyone is seated and the effect of that, plus or minus on the moment index.

If there is "free seating on board" the c of g limits are smaller to allow for this lack of certainty,which is why seats are restricted.

r3nu4l

OPENROAD wrote: »

Are these left down for take off and landing?

Yup, for the whole flight most times, although once the cabin crew let some poor guy who was about 6ft 6" into the seats because he was complaining of cramp in his legs.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Do EasyJet have seat selection at check in?
If there is seating at check in the weight and balance system can compute the c of g much more precisely as it knows where everyone is seated and the effect of that, plus or minus on the moment index.

If there is "free seating on board" the c of g limits are smaller to allow for this lack of certainty,which is why seats are restricted.

No, Easyjet don't have seat selection. I'll be flying with EasyJet again in May so I'll look out for restricted rows then as well. I've flown with Ryanair on 8 flights so far since January but don't fly as often with EasyJet, maybe they do the same but I've yet to see it.

fitzyshea

Buy the ruinair book its a good read. In it it says that they block of the seats so cabin crew dont have to look at you! Think its more to do with weight.

Steyr

Oilrig wrote: »

Steyr, which 737 variants are you using as a comparison to the 319?

Many 73 variants... not all "compete" with the 319...

I will find out what 737 Variant/s EZY operate as what i posted above was from their Easyjet site.

Kevster

I noticed this recently too when flying to Leeds and back. However, I thought that the pilot simply adjusts the horizontal stabiliser at the rear of the airplane prior to take-off to counteract any weight-distribution...???

FlutterinBantam

Try riding a bicycle with two bags of cement over the back wheel or the front wheel!!!!

The c of g must still be within safe limits.The stab trim then takes care of the c of g within those limits either towards the back or the front

It's nothing to do with weight,it's weight distribution

Preset No.3

Oilrig wrote: »

Steyr, which 737 variants are you using as a comparison to the 319?

Many 73 variants... not all "compete" with the 319...

Easy use the 737-700 as in the Next generation for the 737-300 which they previously used.

More info...

http://www.jethros.dwsitech.com/fleets/fleet_listings/easyjet_b737srs.htm

Tenger

r3nu4l wrote: »

Right, a good few times I've been on Ryanair flights only to find that the seat trays are down in the first 3-4 rows and sometimes also the back 3-4 rows.

What does bother me is the reason they give for doing this:

'These seats are unavailable for use because we need to balance weight distribution in the aircraft', according to the cabin crew.

So is this true?

I ask because I've never seen it on EasyJet flights, even when the flight was half-empty!
My own opinion on this is that the reason is bull. I think the real reason is that the cabin crew want to keep as many passengers as possible together as it makes it easier to serve passengers during the flight, and easier to clean the plane when everyone has disembarked.

I'm happy to be wrong but would appreciate if anyone here knew the answer for sure!

The reason they give is a valid reason however this situation of 'trim' should only arises when the pax load is very light. On an FR B73W which seats 189 (I think) you would possibly require a load of 110 or less to need pax to move for trim purposes. Anecdotally FR appear to use this explanation to corral pax into the centre of the aircraft thus allowing speedier service and cleaning. Which does help their turnarounds thus helping pax satisfaction.

EI for example very rarely need to reseat pax on their A320 services but do need to do so sometimes on the A321 if pax load is below approx 120. This may not take the form of blocking off seats but merely ensuring pax stay in their assigned rows. You may spot most pax in rows 10-20 and then some stranded back in rows 30-36. And to answer a poster above the movement of 6-10 pax affect the centre of gravity if the load is light enough and perhaps the wind conditions are tricky and require precise balancing of the airacraft for handling puposes. On several occasions I have had to move a certain number of pax further forward or back in the cabin and/or restrict pax movement from their assigned seats.

When you hear a pilot talking about 'just finishing up the paperwork' the majority of this involves checking and signing off on Load and balance sheets for the pax/cargo and baggage onboard.

Steyr

fitzyshea wrote: »

Buy the ruinair book its a good read. In it it says that they block of the seats so cabin crew dont have to look at you! Think its more to do with weight.

Just bought it today literally 25 Minutes ago!