DS. help needed

tootsy

i have a 1968 rhd ds that is haveing problems starting .have recharged the battery and checked the oviouse petrol leads ect,ect. the car has been stored in a garage for a year now.when i did check it the rad was empty and when i refilled it there was a leak in a rubber pipe got that sorted .still the car wont start.any ideas.all imput gratfully accepted.

mustang68

Is it turning over at all? are you getting spark? Can you be more specific, what are the problems you're getting?

tootsy

mustang68 wrote: »

Is it turning over at all? are you getting spark? Can you be more specific, what are the problems you're getting?

sorry yes its turning over and theres a spark but no joy ,

crosstownk

Is it possible to dribble a wee bit of petrol into the intake to see if it fires up momentarily. At least then you'll know if it's a fuel supply problem.

nmacc

Definitely try fresh fuel directly into the carb or the manifold. It's possible for old petrol to "go off" although it seems to be more common in the US than here; I've had it happen to me once in Ireland.

Another possibility is that the spark you see is not as potent when under pressure; that is, even when a spark is visible, it's still possible to have dirty points that produce an inadequate spark on the compression stroke.

There are also a couple of old tricks:

Try taking out the plugs, cleaning them thoroughly, then heating them under the grill. I know it sound odd and it's tricky to get them back in when hot, but they will burn off any excess fuel in the cylinders if still hot by the time you get the motor turning, Saved me once when I was trying to start an old Ford that was half-buried in a snow drift.

Another possibility is to add another battery. You have to be careful doing this, but it works on cars with simple electrical systems. Charge up the battery and then add another in series giving 24V across the starter & ignition coil. All accessories must be switched off and you have to remember to disconnect the oil pressure switch to avoid blowing the bulb and naturally you need to disconnect the alternator/dynamo and regulator/control box.

It can work very well, but don't try it on a car with a coil resistor - I don't know if the DS has one, but they don't seem to be common on French cars.

ds20prefecture

If the car is turning over there's no need to give it 24V IMO. Some DSs did come with a ballast resistor when new, but after 40 years there could be anything there now. Note that the '68 DS also has a hand crank option if you need it.

If you're getting spark at all 4 plugs, and the plugs are clean, and the car is turning over then it's most likely to be the fuel supply. Disconnect the pump from the carb and put the hose in a bottle while you turn it over to test. If the car was last driving a year ago then I'd definitely drain the tank and fill it with fresh before turning it over. If you didn't do this you might well have gummed up the carb as the fuel can turn to varnish, particularly if the tank was not full to the brim. If so, let me know as I have a good DS21 carb I can lend you in the boot of my car. Is the car a manual or semi-auto?

Where are you based?

Lyre61

There is a quick start spray that you spray into the air filter inlet pipe to the carb, if you are getting any sort of spark the engine will try to catch, might even turn over for a second or two. If it does then you are looking at some kind of fuel supply problem.

tootsy

ds20prefecture wrote: »

If the car is turning over there's no need to give it 24V IMO. Some DSs did come with a ballast resistor when new, but after 40 years there could be anything there now. Note that the '68 DS also has a hand crank option if you need it.

If you're getting spark at all 4 plugs, and the plugs are clean, and the car is turning over then it's most likely to be the fuel supply. Disconnect the pump from the carb and put the hose in a bottle while you turn it over to test. If the car was last driving a year ago then I'd definitely drain the tank and fill it with fresh before turning it over. If you didn't do this you might well have gummed up the carb as the fuel can turn to varnish, particularly if the tank was not full to the brim. If so, let me know as I have a good DS21 carb I can lend you in the boot of my car. Is the car a manual or semi-auto?

Where are you based?

thanks for all the replies,have,nt had a chance to do any of your suggestions yet .i am living in walkinstown.will have a go at your suggestions the weekend.i,ll let you,s know how i got on.i think its just a manual gearbox not sure if it semi auto.whats the difference.

ds20prefecture

tootsy wrote: »

i think its just a manual gearbox not sure if it semi auto.whats the difference.

The reason I ask is that the manual has a slightly different carb. The semi-auto has an hydraulic secondary idle control bolted on. You'll know which it is by whether it has a clutch pedal or not. And the manual has a side-mounted column shift whereas the semi-auto wand is mounted on the top of the steering column.

tootsy

its definitly a manual gear box.the main reason i need to get it going is its actually parked in my neibors garage and i basicaly need to just move it next door to my garage,but as yuo know without starting it i cant move it because of the hidralics the car cant be pushed unless i can raise it.

ds20prefecture

If the engine turns over, remove the plugs, drizzle some engine oil down the spark plugs holes, disconnect the fuel hose from the carb and just keep turning it over - it'll pressurise the hydraulics.
Alternatively, disconnect the high pressure pump fan belt from the crankshaft pulley and connect it to a pulley on an electric drill - that'll work too.
If you do this, I suggest you put the suspension in "high" - even one notch above normal. The height correctors tend to wear at the normal ride height which means the suspension will de-pressurise quicker on this setting compared to one of the others.

Once the suspension is up, everything else is pressurised. Be aware that the steering is the heaviest "consumer of pressure" (for want of a better description) so be prepared to crank it again.
Also be aware that the brakes are on the same circuit (with their own accumulator) so you've only got two or three brake applications without building pressure again. Use the parking brake instead (assuming it works).

Use the private message function here to send me your mobile - there's a couple of DS owners in Walkinstown, or I might be able to pop out some evening.

MercMad

ds20prefecture wrote: »

If the engine turns over, remove the plugs, drizzle some engine oil down the spark plugs holes, disconnect the fuel hose from the carb and just keep turning it over - it'll pressurise the hydraulics.
Alternatively, disconnect the high pressure pump fan belt from the crankshaft pulley and connect it to a pulley on an electric drill - that'll work too.
If you do this, I suggest you put the suspension in "high" - even one notch above normal. The height correctors tend to wear at the normal ride height which means the suspension will de-pressurise quicker on this setting compared to one of the others.

Once the suspension is up, everything else is pressurised. Be aware that the steering is the heaviest "consumer of pressure" (for want of a better description) so be prepared to crank it again.
Also be aware that the brakes are on the same circuit (with their own accumulator) so you've only got two or three brake applications without building pressure again. Use the parking brake instead (assuming it works).

Use the private message function here to send me your mobile - there's a couple of DS owners in Walkinstown, or I might be able to pop out some evening.

...........sounds like you've done this several times !

If you disconnect the fuel line at the carb wont the engine driven fuel pump spray fuel everywhere, or is there none ?

ds20prefecture

Good point. Disconnect the supply pipe from the pump instead! I don't suppose it would matter too much if you leave it connected - it would flood and would not be good to continually crank with nothing to lubricate except petrol! The electric drill option might be better, but can take a while.

I've actually never done it, but the guys on the US & Australian DS lists are constantly rescuing cars that have sat for 20 years.

MercMad

I think it would be better to disconnect at the carb, but PLUG the end of the pipe. The cam driven diaphragm pump should only pump if fuel is needed.

ds20prefecture

Any update on this?

tootsy

ds20prefecture wrote: »

Any update on this?

sorry for not replying ,i just have,nt had the time to have a go at your suggestions.i will give you an update tonight. thanks.may take you up on the offer of coming over to have a look.