Help - IT work

light123

I am trying after some time to get back into work in IT and I am finding it quite difficult. I am quite experienced. I have a degree but I do not have any MCPs. This is a little important as I want to work with Windows infrastructure like helpdesk and deskside support roles. Do I have to get a MCP first? Can I not get the work first so that I know it will be worthwhille? I have been out of work for around 4 years. This was most likely because I had two breakdowns. I had to ask my last job to fire me after they started with formal warnings and all that, I just couldn't take it anymore. I was totally stressed out. I'm 35 and really want to work. I'm sure my CV doesn't look great and I can send loads of cVs off but don't hear back that much. I want to get into Helpdesk and that as I can move with the experience from each job unlike previous jobs where what I learnt and did was only useful for that company. Being unemployed for so has also being very stressful and I'm not exactly Mr Happy either and I'm sure this comes acrosss sometimes in the interviews I've had for roles I didn't want.

ideas welcome

cronos

light123 wrote: »

I am trying after some time to get back into work in IT and I am finding it quite difficult. I am quite experienced. I have a degree but I do not have any MCPs. This is a little important as I want to work with Windows infrastructure like helpdesk and deskside support roles. Do I have to get a MCP first? Can I not get the work first so that I know it will be worthwhille? I have been out of work for around 4 years. This was most likely because I had two breakdowns. I had to ask my last job to fire me after they started with formal warnings and all that, I just couldn't take it anymore. I was totally stressed out. I'm 35 and really want to work. I'm sure my CV doesn't look great and I can send loads of cVs off but don't hear back that much. I want to get into Helpdesk and that as I can move with the experience from each job unlike previous jobs where what I learnt and did was only useful for that company. Being unemployed for so has also being very stressful and I'm not exactly Mr Happy either and I'm sure this comes acrosss sometimes in the interviews I've had for roles I didn't want.

ideas welcome

If you have been out of the game for 4 years I suppose it couldnt hurt to get a current certificate. Or perhaps you could do a masters.

Moonbeam

Try Eircom or the other isps for 1st level helpdesk work.
It isn't great but it is a start and would get you back in to the work force and as they say it is easier to find a job when you have one:)

Good Luck

seamus

4 years isn't that long out of IT in the current climate, particularly if you're aiming for helpdesk work. Most companies are still running Windows XP (or even 2000) with Server 2000 or 2003. If they're running office, they're using 2000 or 2003.

Hardware has moved on a bit, but not so much that you'd need retraining to catch up.

I would have a look perhaps at the whole stress issue. If you tell interviewers that you were voluntarily let go because you couldn't take the pressure they were piling on you, then that's not going to look good - people are going to think that you'll crack as soon as the place gets busy.

Although your age shouldn't count against you, have a look at the kinds of salaries you're going for. If you're going for a helpdesk role, with only helpdesk experience and no industry certs, then your ballpark figure is €23k - €26k. If you're applying for jobs with salaries in the €30k+ range, then based on what info you've given us, I think you're shooting too high.

MIN2511

4 yrs is long to be out of the IT world... No joke, thats why IT people are not given long sabaticals.
Can you do a masters? And when you start then apply? Hmm, i reckon you want the job now not later.
Try HP, their turnover is high but you get the experience and name on your cv.

ntlbell

MIN2511 wrote: »

4 yrs is long to be out of the IT world... No joke, thats why IT people are not given long sabaticals.
Can you do a masters? And when you start then apply? Hmm, i reckon you want the job now not later.
Try HP, their turnover is high but you get the experience and name on your cv.

It's not long if your looking for helpdesk work

Yes some aspects of IT change a lot but most don't.

If 4 years ago you were working on a helpdesk supporting 2k/xp/office/general desktop/server hardware

I can't think of anything that's changed so much now you would need more than a few minutes checking something online to make sure or refresh.

As far as I can see and talking with a friend in recruitment IT is starting to slow down or at least certain parts of it.

I think it's getting harder for jack of all trade types to get work.

Maybe just get any sort of job and start working towards a niche like security....

light123

"couldnt hurt to get a current certificate. Or perhaps you could do a masters.
"
Well I would like to get MS certs but will wait until I am working in the direction. Masters! Getting the degree was hard enough. Maybe in a year or twos time.

"Try Eircom or the other isps for 1st level helpdesk work."

This I might end up doing for a little while but I just can't do the shifts.

"It isn't great but it is a start and would get you back in to the work force and as they say it is easier to find a job when you have one"

God I hate that saying but I know its probably true.

HP? Not in my direction.

Stress issue; that was at one time at one place. I don't think it should happen again.



Thanks all, any more comment are welcome...

ecommerce

I am not sure what the job market in Ireland is like now. I am an Application Support Lead, decided to tool up this year as I want to progress away from the tech side of IT. I did CCNA (had to for work), i am kind CCNP level in some areas so that wasn't too hard. Did ITIL / Prince2 and also lots of personal development.
Sent my CV off to a few agencies here and got no reply. Never happened to me before in 6 yrs of working in IT.
I know my CV/Cover Letter are very well written.

Who knows ...

I am prob going to do a Masters but maybe the job market is quite at the moment.

the_syco

ecommerce wrote: »

Sent my CV off to a few agencies here and got no reply. Never happened to me before in 6 yrs of working in IT.

What agencies? Some don't know their arse from their elbow, and unless X isn't on your CV, that they can tick off some box, they won't do diddily. Hays IT, and (some of the people in) CPL know what certs mean, and can usually know where you'd be suitable for.

light123 wrote: »

"It isn't great but it is a start and would get you back in to the work force and as they say it is easier to find a job when you have one"

God I hate that saying but I know its probably true.

HP? Not in my direction.

You know HP are in Leixlip, yes? Clonskeagh now, but Leixlip now & soon.

Also, last time I was there, NTL and a few others were in the same place as Eircom.

fret_wimp

I left a job out of pure stress and agro, and was out of work for 6 months because of it. I know its not as long as 4 years but i know where you are comming from.
These are things i had to learn to combat my stress and get back to work:

1. You have to remember you only have two hands and there are only 8 working hours a day. you can only do so much.

2. There are jerks no matter where you work. accept that its not your fault they are jerks.

3. there is always someone better than you. work your hardest but dont get bothered that your not better than everyone.


I got back to work by taking a Tier 2 job involving sql server, but i had absolutely no knowledge of it. I took an MCP and a few years on i am very comfortable in sql server and have moved jobs due to better oppertuinities presenting themselves.

I suggest doing an MCP in windows server or something like that. chances are you can get it done very quickly as you will know quite a bit of it already. That will give you a confidence boost and you should be looking for jobs.

either that or get a job use the job time to get your MCP!!!

Im sure you dont need the MCP but it will give you confidence and help you deal with stress better if you have a cert to prove you know the stuff you work on.

Best of luck.

Raekwon

4 years a very long time, not because things have changed that much in IT but because your inactivity could raise a red flag for potential employers (who btw I find to be getting more and more anal while looking for the 'perfect' candidate). For example a friend of mine quit his job as a network support techie because his manager was driving him mad and he found it really hard to get a job because he was unemployed while looking. He said that every interview that he went to they scrutinized the reason behind his resignation and it sort of put him in a bad light in the interviewers mind.

It's tough, even though everybody says there are loads of jobs in IT the reality of it is that there is not as many as there were a few years ago, plus the work force has swelled in Ireland so the amount of applications that employers are receiving has gone through the roof. The company I work for were looking for a junior desktop support guy before Christmas and they got well over 100 applications, did over 10 interviews, followed by 3 second round interviews and the role and pay wasn't even that good.

Sorry to put a dampener on things but I just want you to know what to expect. Anyway best of luck with the job hunting and hopefully you will find a decent role sooner rather then later

youcancallmeal

I blame the universities like DCU, NCI etc coming out with their annual statements that "10,000 IT jobs are unfilled!!" just so they can fill their courses :mad:

Raekwon

Yeah that is true, plus in recent years the applications for third level IT courses have gotten lower and lower and even then the drop-out rates are huge. Hard times ahead for IT in this country I fear

Gautama

ecommerce wrote: »

I am not sure what the job market in Ireland is like now.

I've found it quite poor, in IT anyway.
I've 10+ years engineering experience, 5 in IT, 3 programming.
Was looking to move around but have decided to stay where I am due to the economic forecast. Employers certainly weren't laying laurels at my feet:

• suggested 20% pay cut
• interview cancelled a few hours beforehand
• refusal to reschedule interview, despite less than 24hours notice.

ecommerce

Yup to be honest I think its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I think 2008 will be a flat year for employment as in there may still be a few options out there. After that, I really think 2009 is going to be a hard year for employment. I am not too optimistic about the future on this emerald isle.

Gautama wrote: »

I've found it quite poor, in IT anyway.
I've 10+ years engineering experience, 5 in IT, 3 programming.
Was looking to move around but have decided to stay where I am due to the economic forecast. Employers certainly weren't laying laurels at my feet:

• suggested 20% pay cut
• interview cancelled a few hours beforehand
• refusal to reschedule interview, despite less than 24hours notice.

DublinWriter

I'd forget the whole Masters route for now if I were you.

Bear in mind that vendor specific 'qualifications' such as MCPs are a long term commitment as they need to be constantly refreshed with new modules or you lose the entire certification.

More importantly, did you address the reasons why you had the breakdown in the first-place while you were working in IT?

Have you considered a career outside IT? I'm going into my 20th year as an IT professional and my own subjective opinion is that it's going down the toilet rapidly as a profession at nearly every level.

I'm of similar vintage as yourself and I wouldn't like to be starting over on a first/second line helpdesk crew with a bunch of 20-somethings.#

The four year gap will be problematic for you to explain. Most employers almost need you to cover the period between leaving kindergarten and starting primary school. In IT terms, this is more like a gaping chasm than a career break.

Best of luck with it,

DW.

ecommerce

Hey DW,

Couple of questions on your post. Do you not think a Masters is worth while or is it just in this case ?.

I think even if the OP considers a career outside of IT, they will be starting at the beginning with a bunch of 20s olds. Thats one of the main problems of switching careers starting all over again.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to get out of IT and if I do, I know that i would have to start at the bottom. This is extremely hard when you are living in Dublin where even those 40k - 50k struggle to with the daily costs.

I will say IT is one of the most closed minded industries there is. If you did a generic business degree and gained a career in a business related field. You have a lot more options to move into different areas. In IT you are not allowed to move outside of your space, you have to follow an exact path, do an exact job and god forbid you wanted to completely move into a different area of IT.

I would say, if you have to start again, do a Msc in Business and try avoid IT.

DublinWriter wrote: »

I'd forget the whole Masters route for now if I were you.

Bear in mind that vendor specific 'qualifications' such as MCPs are a long term commitment as they need to be constantly refreshed with new modules or you lose the entire certification.

More importantly, did you address the reasons why you had the breakdown in the first-place while you were working in IT?

Have you considered a career outside IT? I'm going into my 20th year as an IT professional and my own subjective opinion is that it's going down the toilet rapidly as a profession at nearly every level.

I'm of similar vintage as yourself and I wouldn't like to be starting over on a first/second line helpdesk crew with a bunch of 20-somethings.#

The four year gap will be problematic for you to explain. Most employers almost need you to cover the period between leaving kindergarten and starting primary school. In IT terms, this is more like a gaping chasm than a career break.

Best of luck with it,

DW.

DublinWriter

ecommerce wrote: »

Hey DW,

Couple of questions on your post. Do you not think a Masters is worth while or is it just in this case ?.

An MSc/MA/MBA can be very beneficial to you once you're fairly well established in your career, but arguably not when your foot is on the first rung of the ladder.

ecommerce wrote: »

I will say IT is one of the most closed minded industries there is...In IT you are not allowed to move outside of your space, you have to follow an exact path, do an exact job and god forbid you wanted to completely move into a different area of IT.

How true. The 'gene pool' of IT management is extremely poor and is usually staffed by those who know little or nothing of IT.

For example, I was dealing recently with one of the most senior IT managers in one very large client who uses VB for most of their in-house apps. I recommended that a new system that was being proposed should be written in C#. My suggestion was axed. Why? Because, and I quote, "we want to use Microsoft Technologies for all our applications".

Most days I feel like I'm living in a Dilbert cartoon strip.

Jumpy

DublinWriter wrote: »

An MSc/MA/MBA can be very beneficial to you once you're fairly well established in your career, but arguably not when your foot is on the first rung of the ladder.


How true. The 'gene pool' of IT management is extremely poor and is usually staffed by those who know little or nothing of IT.

For example, I was dealing recently with one of the most senior IT managers in one very large client who uses VB for most of their in-house apps. I recommended that a new system that was being proposed should be written in C#. My suggestion was axed. Why? Because, and I quote, "we want to use Microsoft Technologies for all our applications".

Most days I feel like I'm living in a Dilbert cartoon strip.

Thats standardisation, plus unless you work directly for the company "it isnt up to you to reason why..." etc.

Jumpy

light123 wrote: »

I am trying after some time to get back into work in IT and I am finding it quite difficult. I am quite experienced. I have a degree but I do not have any MCPs. This is a little important as I want to work with Windows infrastructure like helpdesk and deskside support roles. Do I have to get a MCP first? Can I not get the work first so that I know it will be worthwhille? I have been out of work for around 4 years. This was most likely because I had two breakdowns. I had to ask my last job to fire me after they started with formal warnings and all that, I just couldn't take it anymore. I was totally stressed out. I'm 35 and really want to work. I'm sure my CV doesn't look great and I can send loads of cVs off but don't hear back that much. I want to get into Helpdesk and that as I can move with the experience from each job unlike previous jobs where what I learnt and did was only useful for that company. Being unemployed for so has also being very stressful and I'm not exactly Mr Happy either and I'm sure this comes acrosss sometimes in the interviews I've had for roles I didn't want.

ideas welcome

Personally I would consider a different field, if you are easily stressed then avoid IT.

fret_wimp

Jumpy wrote: »

Personally I would consider a different field, if you are easily stressed then avoid IT.

Sorry but i disagree. I was the most stressed out person when i first started in it, so much so that i had to leave jobs and was out of work for many months just to chill out.

I went to Cognative Behavior Therapy, which basically teaches you to recognise the symptoms of anxiety and how to deal with them, so when you feel an anxiety attack comming on, you deal with it head on rather than letting it consume you. its tough for the first month or two back but after a while your coping skills become 2nd nature.

Im now well over 2 years in a pretty stressful Tier 2 role,but I dont let it get to me.

If you are diagnosed and the doctor thinks CBT will help you, you can get it on the free also!! It improved my life 100%. It also proves that anyone can deal with stress, just some people need time to learn the coping skills.

Raekwon

Any luck with the job hunting OP?

light123

Hi there,
thanks for asking...
It's been slow. I'v had interviews, thanks and no thanks for all the effort.
Either I'm over experienced or no recent experience. Maybe I just have to keep going and wait until I get something but right now I don't feel too positive. It's hard to feel positive when I only got myself for company the whole day. It's especially hard when I think I've had a good interview
and then see that the place keeps the ad up (not an agency where you expect that). I don't even hear back. ...
With an agency at least I get feedback.
After feeling like this and looking like mad for a while I stop and need to. I think I will go mad looking and contacting agencies next week.
What I find funny but funny in a sad way is that my girlfriend moved into accounting around 2001 and she's doing very well now. I agree with some people here where they say that the IT area is very narrow minded and such.
All I know is that I keep going, for how long is the question. If after another 3 months I'm still sitting at home looking I'm really not sure how I will start going about looking at other areas.

Anyway enough for now, I don't want to get any one else down. This is life.

Raekwon

Chin up OP, I know it's easy for me to say but things will work out for you if you keep trying. You got a few interviews at least, that's a positive step in the right direction, employers are showing an interest in you and that is never a bad thing.

In the mean time maybe you should think about doing a few IT courses (FAS?) or self studying to update your skill set. Buy a Microsoft Press book on XP or Vista and do a few online practice tests and you should pass those exams quite easily in a few weeks.

I know it is hard, I am working in the same company for awhile now and I wanted to move job around 6 months ago but 30 applications and three failed job interviews later I am still here. IMO it's tough being in IT in this current economic climate but you really need to show employers that you are committed to your field and doing a few exams will show them that. Hopefully things will turn around for you. Keep us updated!

fret_wimp

light123 wrote: »

Hi there,
thanks for asking...
It's been slow. I'v had interviews, thanks and no thanks for all the effort.
Either I'm over experienced or no recent experience. Maybe I just have to keep going and wait until I get something but right now I don't feel too positive. It's hard to feel positive when I only got myself for company the whole day. It's especially hard when I think I've had a good interview
and then see that the place keeps the ad up (not an agency where you expect that). I don't even hear back. ...
With an agency at least I get feedback.
After feeling like this and looking like mad for a while I stop and need to. I think I will go mad looking and contacting agencies next week.
What I find funny but funny in a sad way is that my girlfriend moved into accounting around 2001 and she's doing very well now. I agree with some people here where they say that the IT area is very narrow minded and such.
All I know is that I keep going, for how long is the question. If after another 3 months I'm still sitting at home looking I'm really not sure how I will start going about looking at other areas.

Anyway enough for now, I don't want to get any one else down. This is life.

Im afraid this is the industry as it stands in ireland. Send your CV in for every job you like, go for meetings with recruitment consultant ( salespeople!) and dont lose heart each time you dont hear back from them. its their loss. absolutely everyone in this country in IT has to deal with this suituation a few times over their career, its the way it is, its not gona change, and its not your fault its that way, so just forget every rejection or non caller as soon as you know its not gona happen, and move onto the next potential position. its a harsh system if you are sensitive, but if you harden up your attitude a bit it wont bother you.

always remember recruitment officers are the ruthless, rude,arrogant and know nothing about the area they are hiring for.

eg, you know vb6 and apply for a job with vb script they will completely disregard you ( search the boards, this has happened many times). they love buzz words like .NET, XML , and other such achronyms.

I would suggest applying to Accenture. if you really feel you are low on expirience they still take people in ( they took me in straight from college knowing absolutely nothing about the field i was entering). i got placed in a nice area and became quite confident and proficient in my area. i then used this as a stepping stone.

Seriously, dont let it get you down. consciously tell yourself it was prob a crap job anyway and move on to the next potential one. after a while you will subconsciously do this. This isnt your fault, just keep hammering at it and youl get sorted out. patience is a virtue and knowing what you can and cant control really helps you get a hold on things.

Keep us updated.

light123

Hi there fret_wimp,

will keep you up to date. Now waiting after I had interview on Tuesday.

Have a good weekend ...