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Rio Named England Captain/England Match Thread

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    DesF wrote: »
    Missed this earlier.

    Nope, not you.

    I was gently ribbing Fred.

    Troll :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭genericgoon


    Archimedes wrote: »
    Terry is a good player, but Ive never bought into the hype that he is one of the best defenders in the world. Struggle to make the top 10 in my opinion. Himself and several other Chelsea players were made to look world class when Makelele was in that defensive midfield position. He broke up so many attacks and his defensive play was world class, which made Terry, Carvalho, even Peter Cech look more formidable. It also meant Lampard never had to track back, whicbh is good as he is an extremely one dimensional player, and for me, Makelele was the key to Lampards world player of the year nomination and indeed Chelsea's success under Mourinho.


    Not forgetting Real Madrids success while he was there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,046 ✭✭✭eZe^


    Makelele was the difference between Madrid being one of the most formidable teams to play the game and the Galacticos mentality...


    At Real, Makélélé substantially added to his medal tally, winning two Spanish La Liga championships, the UEFA Champions League, the Spanish Super Cup, the European Super Cup, and the Intercontinental Cup (now replaced by the FIFA World Club Championship).

    Once he left, they won nothing (or maybe at most 1 trophy) until 2007.


    But back on topic, Allez les Bleus. =) (even though they are missing some key players.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭AthAnRi


    I'm happy for him, he's a good player and having a great season. would be my nomination for Player of the year was it not for the fact that Ronaldo is playing so well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Terry massively at fault for the France goal. Place gotta be under threat.

    Gerrard is utterly ****e, Joe Cole has done nada, and Barry is just out of his depth. Capello still hasn't found something that works for them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    PHB wrote: »
    Capello still hasn't found something that works for them.

    solving England's woes in only two games would be an absolute miracle. frankly the England players have been so institutionalized under Sven that it'll be 2010 before we begin to see Capello's England i reckon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,121 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    What a boring match.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Maybe, I still personally maintain that you can only play one of Gerrard Lampard or Rooney.
    Gerrard was shocking in the first half, worst I've seen him play in ages.
    Rooney is not a lead the line striker in the classical sense, works for United, but United support him lots. He can't do much either.

    What England need is a ginger prince.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    England game was very boring to watch. I've all but given up on international friendlies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    PHB wrote: »
    Maybe, I still personally maintain that you can only play one of Gerrard Lampard or Rooney.
    Gerrard was shocking in the first half, worst I've seen him play in ages.
    Rooney is not a lead the line striker in the classical sense, works for United, but United support him lots. He can't do much either.

    Rooney can play with anyone. he can lead a line as good as anyone frankly, it's just all to often the games in which he's been asked to lead the line aren't the time of game where a forwards going to get a lot of service. And when playing for England, all players seem to have a mandatory subtraction in their IQ so they end up playing balls that only the likes of Drogba could latch onto, so if by lead the line striker you mean big strong aerially dominant target man, then no that's not Rooney. neither is Torres, but he can still lead a line pretty damn good, so why should this prevent Rooney?

    as for Gerrard and Lampard, there's no real reason why they shouldn't be able to play together, push Gerrard slightly ahead to support the main striker, let Lamps control the midfield distribution. as long as there's a decent holding player behind them. I think the problem lies in their attitudes, they are used to being the key figure for their clubs and having everything go through them, and just can't adapt to just being another cog in the wheel for England. and adding more depth to the problem is that they are so damn good at what they do at club level, it's hard to see who could come in and do a better job instead of them. Barry's probably the best candidate, but he's not looking fantastic either is he? maybe in time.

    edit: in some ways, i think Capello should be really brave and leave both out of the next squad. give the rest a chance to step up to the plate. Gerrard and Lamps have consistently failed at international level, so I think it's time to try the rest. the likes of Barry and Co. mightn't be as good as them individually, but i think there's enough variety out there to form a very solid midfield partnership that would perform better than those two as a unit at least.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Nunu


    I could distinctly hear many of the England 'fans' at the game sarcatically cheer Wes Brown when he was subbed tonight....so they've found themselves another scapegoat:rolleyes:(I never, ever use this smiley but feel it's appropriate here)

    Add Wes to the lenghty list that includes Lampard, Hargreaves and P. Neville


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Sqaull20


    Ferdinand deserves it, he has been Englands best defender at both world cups and the Euro, while alot of his team mates have been ****e...

    Gerrard has been crap at this level, lampard has been slightly better but still not good enough, Rooney has enough to do , without this handicap and Ashley Cole has a big enough opinion of himself as it is..

    Terry is a much inferior defender to Ferdinand so he cant get it either..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Sqaull20 wrote: »
    Terry is a much inferior defender to Ferdinand so he cant get it either..

    Don't know about that now. Terry is better at defending than Rio definitely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Sqaull20


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Don't know about that now. Terry is better at defending than Rio definitely.

    How so?

    Rio has defended excellently at the highest level and he doesnt lack anything, hes tall, quick, good on the ball, great in the air, good man marker...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Sqaull20 wrote: »
    How so?

    Rio has defended excellently at the highest level and he doesnt lack anything, hes tall, quick, good on the ball, great in the air, good man marker...

    Rio is a ball playing centre half more so than your token 'hard as nails' type that the likes of Terry and Vidic are. He has been known to pr*ick around with the ball a bit and that's not a quality I really like in my centre halves or captain. That's why Terry (and Vidic) is a better defender for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Nunu


    Have to say I rate Ferdinand higher than John Terry.

    The top teams thrive with a World class footballing centre half in their ranks..Utd have Rio, Chelsea have Carvalho.

    I think Ferdinand has been the best English player of the last 3 years and is the best defender I've seen anywhere in europe this season....and I watch a lot of football:o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Sqaull20


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Rio is a ball playing centre half more so than your token 'hard as nails' type that the likes of Terry and Vidic are. He has been known to pr*ick around with the ball a bit and that's not a quality I really like in my centre halves or captain. That's why Terry (and Vidic) is a better defender for me.

    I think you like alot of people can't see past his obvious twattyness and the fact he had a few lapses in concentration for Man U a couple of seasons back.. he's f****g brilliant centre back.

    Rio Ferdinand is about the only England player who has always played very well for England.

    It's something that can't really be argued. Brilliant at both World Cups.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Sqaull20 wrote: »
    I think you like alot of people can't see past his obvious twattyness and the fact he had a few lapses in concentration for Man U a couple of seasons back.. he's f****g brilliant centre back.

    Rio Ferdinand is about the only England player who has always played very well for England.

    It's something that can't really be argued. Brilliant at both World Cups.

    Well, like anything else, it can be argued. So what if he played well at a World Cup? So did Owen Hargreaves. Should he be in with a shout?

    I don't believe in picking a captain based on ability. I prefer leadership qualities in my captain. They don't necessarily need to be the best player on the pitch but they have those qualities that bring out the best in the other players around them. Can't say Rio does that for me whereas the likes of Terry does.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Sqaull20


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Well, like anything else, it can be argued. So what if he played well at a World Cup? So did Owen Hargreaves. Should he be in with a shout?

    I don't believe in picking a captain based on ability. I prefer leadership qualities in my captain. They don't necessarily need to be the best player on the pitch but they have those qualities that bring out the best in the other players around them. Can't say Rio does that for me whereas the likes of Terry does.

    Owen Hargreaves come on..

    Terry had his chance as captain and England didnt qualify for the Euro's..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Nunu


    What's wrong with Hargreaves? I reckon he'd be a great capt...lead by example and all that...performs consistently well.

    Just for the record i wouldn't have Ferdinand, Terry or Gerrard as my captain...any footballer who has ever cried on the pitch over losing a game is not made of the right stuff....i don't remember ever seeeing Keano or Bryan Robson or Souness ever shedding a tear on the pitch. You want these kind of guys as your captain...Hargreaves is closer to that type of mentality than the other 3.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Sqaull20 wrote: »
    Terry had his chance as captain and England didnt qualify for the Euro's..

    And if England don't qualify for the next tournament it'll be the captain's fault then, not the other 30 players who were involved? It was hardly Terry's fault when Robinson had a swing and a miss at a backpass or when Carson f*cked up. Come on now. That's just making scape goats.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    Sqaull20 wrote: »
    Owen Hargreaves come on..

    Terry had his chance as captain and England didnt qualify for the Euro's..

    It wasn't the choice of Terry as captain that meant England didn't qualify for the Euros.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Sqaull20


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    And if England don't qualify for the next tournament it'll be the captain's fault then, not the other 30 players who were involved? It was hardly Terry's fault when Robinson had a swing and a miss at a backpass or when Carson f*cked up. Come on now. That's just making scape goats.

    So you agree that Terry being able to rise players up , isnt all its made out to be?

    I dont rate Terry as being good enough to be England captain, when he is your typical English centre half with no skill, technique, intelligence, composure, pace or class - but likes to get 'stuck in' and will 'run through brick walls' for his team - the foundations of English football and the reason why thye have won f**k all in that period.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    Sqaull20 wrote: »
    I dont rate Terry as being good enough to be England captain, when he is your typical English centre half with no skill, technique, intelligence, composure, pace or class - but likes to get 'stuck in' and will 'run through brick walls' for his team - the foundations of English football and the reason why thye have won f**k all in that period.

    Like say, hmmm, Marco Materazzi for example?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Sqaull20


    Matrix has one of the above and the fact his huge has meant he's been able to get away with it. just:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Sqaull20 wrote: »
    So you agree that Terry being able to rise players up , isnt all its made out to be?

    I dont rate Terry as being good enough to be England captain, when he is your typical English centre half with no skill, technique, intelligence, composure, pace or class - but likes to get 'stuck in' and will 'run through brick walls' for his team - the foundations of English football and the reason why thye have won f**k all in that period.

    So poor management has had nothing to do with it either? England have had 1 maybe 2 of the type of player you have described in their team. IMO they are needed when it's backs to the walls time. Terry is a leader. He hasn't guided Chelsea to two titles by being a sh*t captain.

    It certainly hasn't affected other countries to have solid players like that in their team.

    France 98 - Blanc
    Italy 06 - Materazzi
    Germany 96 - Kohler
    Greece 04 - Dellas/Dabizas
    Germany 90 - Buchwald

    I could go on really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    Sqaull20 wrote: »
    Matrix has one of the above and the fact his huge has meant he's been able to get away with it. just:D

    Which of skill, technique, intelligence, composure, pace or class does Materazzi have that Terry doesn't?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Sqaull20


    Look im not saying Terry is rubbish, he's not..


    Rio is just far better imo and would make a very good captain, as he has never let England down...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Sqaull20


    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    Which of skill, technique, intelligence, composure, pace or class does Materazzi have that Terry doesn't?

    Intelligence..

    How could you not have guessed? :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    I thought the England game was very boring. I'm surprised I managed to get through it all.

    I felt Ashley Cole was the worst England player on show. It seemed like every time he went to cross the ball he messed up his cross. I was surprised he lasted the whole game. I think Bridge should have replaced him.


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