Sexist Poker Tourneys-Where will it all end?

The Clamper

As most of you would be aware, there are many events now for WOMEN ONLY

The Ladies European Poker Championships and The Ladies Irish Open event over the last weekend, to name but 2, these things have crept in slowly and now they are becoming a regular item on the card for most events

I seem to recall that when most Golf clubs were MEN ONLY, that women kicked up a bloody storm and clubs up and down the country that had been MEN ONLY for eons were subjected to name and shame campaigns, threatened closures and loss of the ability to sell alcohol etc if they didnt allow women to have full status

Its hard to believe that in a society that continuously harps on about equality for all citizens, that we have this relatively new phenomina of WOMEN'S ONLY tourneys becoming more and more popular

quite frankly and in my opinion, if i was female i would find it offensive and belittling to have these tourneys offered as they seem to infer that women are unable to compete with men in this sport, which is completely ignorant of the facts, women can play every bit as good as, if not better than, most men

i have seen in the past where a prize is given to whatever woman lasts longest in a tourney, which is usually coupled with a special announcement and applause, i see this as a petty thing to do and insulting to women,
"sure we will give her a prize for being a good little girl, pat her on the head and send her home to do some cooking and cleaning"

why do women put up with it? coz they have to in order to be accepted? crazy!!!

so why o why are these things being offered ?
and why o why are men now being subjected to this outrage of being refused entry into supposedly OPEN tourneys ?

if there is to be this sort of sexism towards male persons, what will it be next ? where will it all end ?

will we have tourneys for females that are of a particular creed, race and sexual preference to the exclusion to all others or is that a stretch too far?

i doubt it, and Lord God help you if you had so much as a twitch, never mind a visible ailment, walking stick, blemish, scar, bad hair day or a non brand-name pair of sunglasses.

i dont see too many tourneys for men only, do you wonder why ?
well i will tell you why, we would have the women's lib brigade chaining themselves to railings outside poker events up and down the land and picketing The Rio in Vegas, The Vic in London and The Merrion in Dublin etc, screaming from the rooftops about how unfair and sexist the sport had become.

these women would have every right to protest if we men were to exclude them, yet i didnt hear a murmer of protest over the weekend about a WOMEN'S ONLY tournament in City West and when i mentioned it, i was met with giggling and scorn from these very same women, saying that "you guys are never satisfied" i agree with the observation, but what has that got to do with poker?

I wonder what would happen if some men sought and were prepared to pay for entry and when refused, then starting yelping about the injustice and clear breach of basic equality between the sexes??

the argument so far has been to say that it brings more women into the poker world, well i doubt that to be honest, it just brings more women into one location, thats all.

will they be demanding that no professional poker playing women are allowed to enter? no they wont coz they know only too well how that would end up, no sponsors.

As you may have guessed, I am against these tourneys and i see them as a denial of a basic right for all people to play the game on an equal footing.
it's not like we have to handicap men when women are allowed to play
(it's not like golf where they get their own TEES up to 100 yards ahead of the men)

in todays society, it is likely to cause major upset to act in a manner likely to be viewed as sexist, racist, etc etc and we have all these "isms" attached to words that will have the court of human rights banging your door down, yet we allow this to go on

why dont we run a tourney for Tall people, with an "r" in their name, who are non-nationals, with blond hair, male, have a scar over their right eye and a bald patch, actually no, i was thinking of a freind of mine who shall remain nameless

we could always turn the clock back to a time when women were not allowed to vote and "knew thier place" as it were, only good for cooking, cleaning and bringing up baby, er, i dont think so. Thankfully we dont live in the dark ages of Victorian times with Dickensian values of women. I am all for giving females a fair crack of the whip (maybe not the best choice of words there) but not so fair as to exclude males.

it's wrong i tell ya, wrong and shouldnt be allowed
(anyway, thats just my opinion and my rant for the Easter Weekend)
i am only just back home from City West now and with nothing better to do, i wrote this while awaiting my good wife to bring me my dinner.

YULETIRED

jayz clampet, ya sound like a woman there,
if you chain yer jocks to dail eireann, im sure something will be done, or go commando down grafton street in a kilt on a windy day......make a stand (however small and shriveled).


I ran in the evening press wimmins mini marathon , my name was Amanda Horn, and i was by the end of it. My time was very good considering it was my 1st time in a dress...but did i complain?...get yer gladrags out boyz

Jools Poker

you might want to actually check and see how many women are actually looking for women only events clamper.....not very many I would surmise....personally a woman -only tournament is my idea of hell...and I disagree with the principle of them.....take it up with the event organisers putting these events on

HUSH HUSH

Where will it all end?

Racist tourneys........ No <Insert County Of Choice Here> Players allowed.


On second thoughts I could see this one catching on:eek::cool:

YULETIRED

Jools Poker wrote: »

you might want to actually check and see how many women are actually looking for women only events clamper.....not very many I would surmise....personally a woman -only tournament is my idea of hell...and I disagree with the principle of them.....take it up with the event organisers putting these events on

I can't read yer post Jules without hearing that accent of yours..:)

now i hope i'm not being accentist here..

ArmaniJeanss

Top class rant, Mr Clamper.

Jools Poker

YULETIRED wrote: »

I can't read yer post Jules without hearing that accent of yours..:)

now i hope i'm not being accentist here..

ha ha...I guess that depends on whether it's a good thing or a bad thing!:D just after catching sight of ya there on rte....looked like you had yer hat on backwards...what's that all about

YULETIRED

Jools Poker wrote: »

ha ha...I guess that depends on whether it's a good thing or a bad thing!:D just after catching sight of ya there on rte....looked like you had yer hat on backwards...what's that all about

always a good thing. jules .....

I wasn't there today , have you got the contacts in backward....:)

Jools Poker

well i am a bit stoned but i swear there's someone there in the crowd on the footage tonight loks just like you...you should check it out....maybe someone's out there impersonating you....running a tab in your name:eek:

phantom_lord

i don't have a problem with it, i mean, i take it that it's aimed at wimin who might be shy about, or intimidated by, entering a normal card game, and giving them an easier game to start off in. supposedly there's quite a large number of females playing online, where are they? I can count the number of women i've played live cash with on one hand.

i really don't think anyone should take offense at it being held.

mdwexford

I concur.

The Al Lad

A boards free tourney...WOW imagine... NO MOANING from the usual w@nkers:D

The Clamper

Thanks For The Support Al,

I Presume I Can Add Your Name To My List Of People Who Will March On Dail Eireann Over This

March To Take Place On The 5th April 2008, Just Before The National Student Poker Championships, Which Starts At 11 A.m.

By The Way, We Allow Men And Women In Our Tourney, Even If They Are On Boards

As For You Amanda, Where Were You When I Needed Some Support In City West

Incidentally Amanda, We Give Discount For People Coming In Drag To Our Event And You Never Know, Some Of The Lads Might Try And Buy You A Drink
It Could Be A Big Night If You Play Your Cards Right

QueenJulesII

phantom_lord wrote: »

i don't have a problem with it, i mean, i take it that it's aimed at wimin who might be shy about, or intimidated by, entering a normal card game, and giving them an easier game to start off in. supposedly there's quite a large number of females playing online, where are they? I can count the number of women i've played live cash with on one hand.

i really don't think anyone should take offense at it being held.

:eek::eek::eek:

Shy?! Intimidated?! Ha(!) Where were you last Friday then?!!!

The women's event was bloody tough... the amount of bluffing and slow-playing of premium hands in the early stages kept me on my toes, women are harder to 'read' than men IMO :rolleyes: Much easier (and enjoyable of course) to play with men! ...I mean mixed 'mixed' games... ahem!

Clamper - you could try pushing the Equality Status Act ruling by submitting the ES1 form to PPP; with the aim to ensure that in future when they do a 'ladies Only' event that there's a similar game with an 'equal' buy-in for you to play!

BIG-SLICK-POKER

Put on a male only Tourney see wat happens when its reversed i hate the ladies last standing prize and some ladies are excellent players

Jen Mason is one of the best to stare u down in my opinion

Jesus Wept

The Clamper wrote: »

they seem to infer that women are unable to compete with men in this sport

sport me hole.
It's a game.

The Al Lad

QueenJulesII wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

Shy?! Intimidated?! Ha(!) Where were you last Friday then?!!!

The women's event was bloody tough... the amount of bluffing and slow-playing of premium hands in the early stages kept me on my toes, women are harder to 'read' than men IMO :rolleyes: Much easier (and enjoyable of course) to play with men! ...I mean mixed 'mixed' games... ahem!

Clamper - you could try pushing the Equality Status Act ruling by submitting the ES1 form to PPP; with the aim to ensure that in future when they do a 'ladies Only' event that there's a similar game with an 'equal' buy-in for you to play!

lol man Clamper is only annoyed cos they caught him in drag before the start of the event, they thought his face was particularly hairy for a woman (even an Irish woman at that):D

btw Clamper, me Ma wants that dress back, she got that in the a-wear sales, and I aint fcking jokin

QueenJulesII

The Al Lad wrote: »

lol man Clamper is only annoyed cos they caught him in drag before the start of the event, they thought his face was particularly hairy for a woman (even an Irish woman at that):D

btw Clamper, me Ma wants that dress back, she got that in the a-wear sales, and I aint fcking jokin

Aha! I did think there was something odd about player # 147 who was asked to leave table 48 during the first hand...

phantom_lord

QueenJulesII wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

Shy?! Intimidated?! Ha(!) Where were you last Friday then?!!!

The women's event was bloody tough... the amount of bluffing and slow-playing of premium hands in the early stages kept me on my toes, women are harder to 'read' than men IMO :rolleyes: Much easier (and enjoyable of course) to play with men! ...I mean mixed 'mixed' games... ahem!

i think you misinterpreted what i said.

Hectorjelly

Women are a civilising influence on men. Men without contact with women tend to be aggressive, violent, stupid and dress badly. I was in Pakistan recently and one of the things that worried me was that its normal in their Muslim society for young men to reach the age of 25 without any significent female contact bar their family. Its not hard to to see how this might affect their society negatively.

Poker is an activity that is dominated by makes. Anecdotally from playing live I would guess that for every 50 male players there is one female. As poker players this is something to be deeply ashamed of. What is it about us and our hobby that is so off putting? I can smell a few of them but thats a topic for another day.

More women in poker would make poker table a more civilised experience. There would be less macho exuberance, less angry drunks. Its also worth noting there would be more fish for a while as well.

When dealing with this problem, understanding and a willingness to change are needed. We are going to have to make some allowances. Who knows, somewhere down the line it might lead to some us having a more intimate knowledge of the female sex than we currently enjoy. I can hear you thinking, but not me, Im a stud. Well think back to your last live session - can you think of anyone who might?

So when you hear of a Tournament organiser recognising there is a problem here and trying to address it, try and use at least a modicum of common sense. Yes its a tournament you are excluded from. But its for a good reason. In a calender year there are literally hundreds of tournaments you can enter, and perhaps 2 or 3 that are women only. There is no possibility of it becoming widespread. Find something less worthy to rant about.

Jesus Wept

QueenJulesII wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

women are harder to 'read' than men IMO :rolleyes: Much easier

phantom_lord wrote: »

i think you misinterpreted what i said.

nah she just read your soul.

califano

The Clamper wrote: »

As you may have guessed, I am against these tourneys.

Why?.Think of all the money you would be missing out on out the back.

bohsman

The Clamper wrote: »

i have seen in the past where a prize is given to whatever woman lasts longest in a tourney, which is usually coupled with a special announcement and applause, i see this as a petty thing to do and insulting to women,
"sure we will give her a prize for being a good little girl, pat her on the head and send her home to do some cooking and cleaning"

Like the IPO?

ditpoker

bohsman wrote: »

Like the IPO?

L O L

LuckyLloyd

I personally can't believe that there wasn't a single cent left by the players as tip for the dealers at the womens event at the weekend. Why* wouldn't women know to tip a percentage point or two from their winnings?
















*cause anytime they play in a normal tournament they lose obv

El Stuntman

brave man LL!

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Oh no.......did he just say that:eek::eek::eek:

LuckyLloyd

Eve Square Grave wrote: »

Oh know.......did he just say that:eek::eek::eek:

:pac::pac::pac:

getting worse

Enjoyed the rant and have to admit that I have felt uncomfortable about such tourneys for a while. The issue is not that there are only a few such tournaments and that there are hundreds of tourneys available or even that the events are organised with good intentions. The difficulty I would have is more subtle than that, simply having the tourneys is kind of saying “that women aren’t as good as men and therefore need their own “little” tourney”. In a strange way the events are sexiest against women and not the excluded men.

YULETIRED

to get LL off the hook

Guess what Bride, I'm all in.
Yer terrible Mary, I've a hand.
Well I'm all in Bride, do what ya like
Mary, I've got a bloody good hand.
Don't be silly bride, I've been hitting the bingo numbers all week,
yer right I fold, anyone else and I'd call.
Can you smell that Bride
What Mary?
nothing, I smell nothing, there's no men here!
hehehehehehhhhhheheehehe
yer terrible
heheheheheheheeheheheheh
what did ya have, I had A 9
No way me too
hehehehehehhhhhheheehehe
yer terrible
heheheheheheheeheheheheh

5starpool

Jools Poker wrote: »

well i am a bit stoned but i swear there's someone there in the crowd on the footage tonight loks just like you...you should check it out....maybe someone's out there impersonating you....running a tab in your name:eek:

That's two days stoned posting in succession Jules. You'd need to watch that, might post something you don't mean to next time

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:

delete delete delete, multi tasking while typing is bad, at least i noticed it and edited before you stook the boot in:pac::pac:

kpnuts

rounders123 wrote: »

Why?.Think of all the money you would be missing out on out the back.

A+

westlife

I know some of the ladies who played in the tournament and they told me that they found the prospect of playing against their own gender less intimidating then an 'open' event. Some had only played the 'pub' games and considered this the highlight of their poker year to play at such a high profile festival. The more experienced players were entering a tournament with a high percentage of inexperienced players and were getting great value for their entry. Yes, we (the boys) would all like to be in a €50,000 tourny with a high percentage of inexperienced players but the reality is that poker has reached a 'plateau' in Ireland and any game that brings new players to the tables has to be good. Some of the first timers I talked to said they would never consider entering a tournament such as this for a couple of years without experience under their belt but were drawn to this event because of the less intimidating 'women only' game. The organizers (by their own admission) expected 40 - 80 runners...THEY GOT DOUBLE THAT! and ANY game that brings 100 new faces (irrespective of their gender) to the tables has to be good for the game. In the future some of these players will graduate into the main events (winning many I'm sure!) and it all would have been started by this event. We need poker to continue to attract new players continually and, i believe, it did this weekend. By the way, the toughest players I know at a poker table are women. As anybody who knows me will agree, i can talk for Ireland but would think twice about taking on Smurf or Willow at a table

getting worse

I agree with everything you say westlife and really think more needs to be done to attract news players into the game but still can't help getting the feeling that there is something a little condescending about having a women only event. Are there any views from the women?

The Clamper

getting worse wrote: »

Enjoyed the rant and have to admit that I have felt uncomfortable about such tourneys for a while. The issue is not that there are only a few such tournaments and that there are hundreds of tourneys available or even that the events are organised with good intentions. The difficulty I would have is more subtle than that, simply having the tourneys is kind of saying “that women aren’t as good as men and therefore need their own “little” tourney”. In a strange way the events are sexiest against women and not the excluded men.

THE VERY POINT I WAS MAKING, ITS NOT SO MUCH THE EXCLUSION OF MEN BUT THE CONDECENSION OF WOMEN

ALSO, IT STARTS WITH WOMEN ONLY THEN WHAT,,,,,,

PEOPLE WILL BE EXCLUDED OR INCLUDED BASED UPON RACE, CREED, SEXUAL PREFERENCE. HEIGHT OR HAIR LOSS

ITS HAS TO BE EITHER FAIR OR UNFAIR

MORE PLAYERS IS GREAT, BUT ARE THEY REALLY NEW? I DOUBT THAT TOO MANY WOULD BE STOMPING UP THAT SORT OF CASH FOR THEIR 1ST EVENT

The Clamper

kpnuts wrote: »

A+

ACTUALLY, CITY WEST DOESNT ALLOW CLAMPING, THEY JUST REMOVE VEHICLES, AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE THEY DROP THEM

THEY DONT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEM MEN AND WOMEN THAT PARK ILLEGALLY EITHER

I LIKE THEIR FREE-THINKING ATTITUDE, VERY FAIR

The Clamper

YULETIRED wrote: »

to get LL off the hook

Guess what Bride, I'm all in.
Yer terrible Mary, I've a hand.
Well I'm all in Bride, do what ya like
Mary, I've got a bloody good hand.
Don't be silly bride, I've been hitting the bingo numbers all week,
yer right I fold, anyone else and I'd call.
Can you smell that Bride
What Mary?
nothing, I smell nothing, there's no men here!
hehehehehehhhhhheheehehe
yer terrible
heheheheheheheeheheheheh
what did ya have, I had A 9
No way me too
hehehehehehhhhhheheehehe
yer terrible
heheheheheheheeheheheheh

BRILLIANT,,A+, IMFAOL

OH TO BE A FLY ON THE WALL

MAYBE I WILL VOLUNTEER TO DEAL IT NEXT YEAR, A FRONT ROW SEAT SO TO SPEAK, NOW WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT BEFORE?

eagle eye

Next year they are adding the gay open, where you have to put all your money in chasing a back door flush!:eek:

westlife

getting worse wrote: »

I agree with everything you say westlife and really think more needs to be done to attract news players into the game but still can't help getting the feeling that there is something a little condescending about having a women only event. Are there any views from the women?

My other half played the game with several of her friends who are also inexperienced players and they had nothing but positive things to say about the game. I did not hear one woman complain about 'sexism' or a feeling of being patronized by the tourny anywhere in the venue. (If anybody was offended by the game they had an option to play the double chance scalp on Monday for around the same buy-in). If Smurf didn't have a ticket for the main event do you think she would have been so offended by the game that she would have refused to play.... NOT A CHANCE! She would have seen the opportunity as a quality player to play in a well structured tournament with a lot of rookies for any part of €50,000. She wouldn't care if they were men or women, we are all (or should be) poker players first and foremost. For any of the lads who feel aggrieved by their enforced exclusion from this game, please don't. €300 freeze outs are ten a penny throughout the year and there was enough going on at the tourny and cash tables to keep every appetite satisfied. I would love to hear from any ladies who are genuinely offended by the game.

And by the by.... I would have paid to see any man go over to Vera (if she had won!) and pat her on the head and say..." your a good little girl, there's your trophy, now go home and do the cooking and cleaning" ... they would have spent the whole weekend trying to extricate a crutch from their arse..

Jesus Wept

luckylucky

If it encourages women to come into the game I think it's a good thing. I'd imagine many a woman finds the overwhelming male atmosphere of the game a bit off-putting. I'll be bluntly honest I think the game just does not appeal to the female psyche as much as it does to the male. Amongst your non poker playing friends I bet it's normally the women who will have a more negative attitude towards poker (A generalisation I know before anyone starts).

I guess really it boils down to what women want. If women don't find it offensive then I have no issue with it. If a lot of female players do then they should be stopped, have a feeling that's not the case.

phantom_lord

Gillybean72

I must admit I dont mind the womans only events. When I came to Citywest friday I was too late anyway to play as it was all last minute that I was def coming down.
I think for newish female players it would be a good idea to break them into playing live tourneys, but maybe seasoned players would rather just play mixed events.

I can see the pros and cons of these types of events, but as I said I dont take offense or anything and would play one no problem. I would do it to meet other females interested in poker, as there isnt really that many I know.

Doc Farrell

Look at the state of the average cardplayer. do your really want your girlfriends and female family members to have to listen to their tedious garbage, not to mention, having to inhale their odious stench? I applaude female only tourneys,they're the best thing in poker.

Clamper, for one last time, please drop the caplock nonsense. Your eyes must be better than mine.

bops

all women tourneys = bingo




normal tourneys = bingo with egos

sumoward

Doc Farrell wrote: »

Look at the state of the average cardplayer. do your really want your girlfriends and female family members to have to listen to their tedious garbage, not to mention, having to inhale their odious stench? I applaud female only tourneys,they're the best thing in poker.

.

Well said, would it be acceptable if soap were offered as a prize in some of our fair cities casino's. there would be no need for a deal to split the bar, I am sure they could extend as far as 3 or 4 bars if there were a deal.

There could be a certain kudos for the amount of soap you accrue over a period, some players could stack it beside them to show their success rate [it's not as if its size with be endangered by proximity to warm water]

Conbro

I personally can't believe that there wasn't a single cent left by the players as tip for the dealers at the womens event at the weekend. Why* wouldn't women know to tip a percentage point or two from their winnings?

I dont believe it either. I know the winner Sinead from the jackpot and Id be quite surprised if she left without giving a generous dropsy.

smurph

I won an Irish Open Ticket at the last minute, and was unable to get time off work.. otherwise I would have played the Ladies event,

Personally I think it's a stupid idea, but I'll play any event where the sponsor's add money...

The biggest name by a long shot at the Irish Open this year was the one and only Mr. Doyle Brunson... I can't really see him playing the Seniors event WSOP game this year, along with Dan Harrington, can you???:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Okay Ladies only events might encourage women to play more poker, but they are going to have to deal with a 90% + of the players being male. I played poker for years and am used to the heckling you get at the table, and believe me there is alot...

I had a donkey of a player on day 1 come up to my and pat me on the back and say "You must be delighted to get to day 2, did your husband pay your in?:mad::mad:

I had an obnoxious Turk, commenting on how they "Keep their women in check" in their country (while doing the slapping gestrues).....These were only isolated incidents, but it is something that new female players will have to put up with....


I only realised recently that there is an Irish Deaf Poker Championship in May
http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MID=367137231&MemberId=3653985714
http://www.irishdeafpoker.com/

I can understand why they would prefer to play where sign language etc., is allowed at the table. I met one of the guys Ciaran at the Irish Poker Championships in Galway, great young player, who I believe posts here, and I also met Julieann Gillen, who is also a deaf poker player,but once again if they want to play the better live tournaments they will have to come into the main stream......

There should be no separation for gender, student, senior, black white, fish, pro etc.,

My 2 cents anyway.....

getting worse

smurph wrote: »

I had a donkey of a player on day 1 come up to my and pat me on the back and say "You must be delighted to get to day 2, did your husband pay your in?:mad::mad:


oh smurf I am sure he was only trying to be nice:)

any news on when he will be able to recieve visitors?

5starpool

I don't mind the notion of women only tournies (as long as it is used as an encouragement tool to get them to play more), but a prize for the last lady left in a competition really annoys me. If I pay into an event then I don't want part of my money to go to a prize I can't win. High hand prizes are nearly as bad, but at least I can in theory win that.