Has anyone ever heard of a Tamaskan?

john jo

As far as i know its not a totaly reconagised breed. Ive been able to find a lke for a breeder over in England alhough all the pictures of the dogs are in snow so i have my doubts. Does anyone know a breeder in Ireland? or anyone who has one?or any thing about them?

peasant

Having read this:

http://www.tamaskan-dog.com/History/history.htm

I'd hardly call the "Tamaskan" a breed, rather a marketing ploy, or more precicely ...a bloody mess

Plenty of wolf/husky/malamute lookalikes in shelters already, no need to give your money to these so called "breeders".

Morganna

I totally agree with you Peasant they are a marketing ploy a mixed up lot of breeds big money for cross breds.They where called innuits then they where called utonagans.keep well away from them .you would be better getting a malamute or husky.

john jo

found some more links

http://www.blustag-arcticbreeds.co.uk/index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamaskan_dog

EGAR

Totally agree with Peasant and Morganna!

Boris25

The tamaskan is a name made up by one woman who lived briefly in Ireland at the end of 2005. She goes under the name of ~censored~ kennels.

These dogs are a mix of husky, utonagan and cwd. She left Ireland and moved to Finland which is why most of the photographs show the dogs in snow. She is now living in England.

~Comment deleted by Mod~

The northern inuit is a completely different breed. Unfortunately there are people selling dogs as northern inuit dogs that clearly are not. A genuine northern inuit dog will be registered with the northern inuit society and have a pedigree tracable back many generations. There is at present only one genuine northern inuit breeder in Ireland but there are also a few dogs that have been imported from the UK.

Hope this helps.

Morganna

I know the woman who lived in england came to ireland breifly in 2006 i think did a runner to finland and has now returned to england .she gave the breed the name tamaskan and the innuit was the same breed .The same woman appeared on blue peter a few years back when the breed was called utonagans

Boris25

You are correct Morganna. She lived in Ireland from the beginning of November 05 until mid December 05 and then dissapeared to Finland leaving quite a mess and many problems behind.

Some of her dogs were utonagans. She also had a gsd x, huskies, malamutes, deerhounds, lhaso apso's and collies. It is only her dogs that she called tamaskans not the whole utonagan breed which are still going strong. She crossed her utonagans with huskies and cwd's.

This person was never involved with northern inuits.

john jo

So which would people see as the most repuatable breed?northern inuits, utonagans or Tamaskan?

peasant

emmm ..out of these three?

none


Here's your wolfy dog:


He's even called "Wolf"

from here:
http://www.irishanimals.com/gsdall_homes.html

Boris25

I'd call that a white GSD not a wolfy dog. As I call my own dogs northern inuits and not wolfy dogs.

I do not know enough about utonagans to comment but yes the northern inuit is a reputable breed

Morganna

boris i think i know you as you know all about the mess the woman left behind,as i do.

Morganna

Boris25 wrote: »

I'd call that a white GSD not a wolfy dog. As I call my own dogs northern inuits and not wolfy dogs.

I do not know enough about utonagans to comment but yes the northern inuit is a reputable breed

Believe me the northern innuits where the utonagans and then a big row and they split and renamed the breed utonagans i know the people invoved one lived in wales .and had been breeding innuits for years i think Boris one of your dogs may go back to the lady from the south of england who lives in wales she and some others renamed the breed utonagans and then the lady who went to finland named her dogs tamaskans did you see her on blue peter when she called them utonagans.

Boris25

Hi Morganna,

Yes the utonagan did split from the northern inuit. The utonagan has since had other breeds added and is completely different to the northern inuit. We were recently at a show that had classes for both utonagans and northern inuits. Both breeds are different.

The person we are discussing, who I understand was not involved with northern inuits at all, did have utonagans. She did not just rename them to tamaskans she mixed in other breeds including husky and cwd.

None of our dogs come from anyone in Wales.

Perhaps we do know each other as we are also in the west of Ireland. We knew that person well and are still friends with her deserted husband.

moonzmum

some very negative comments on the Northern Inuit here folks, very insulting to myself as a breeder , have any of you, apart from boris25 ever met one, or a serious, non money orientated breeder. My concern, as a serious breeder, is to promote my breed and to educate people on them, the pro's and cons. they are not a crossbreed, and we are hoping to gain KC recognition. We have a society devoted to the well being of the breed and a rescue scheme second to none. No NI end up in shelters and pounds as all the relevent rescue shemes in the UK have the NI societies phone numbers and only have to call. Please dont tar us all with the same brush, we arent all out to make money. PS werent all dogs crossbreeds at some point?

peasant

Am I imagining things or is there a remarkable number of low postcount and relatively new users "discussing" dogs that nobody else ever heard of before?

Ye wouldn't all happen to know each other, would ye ? :D:D

Something smells fishy here ...

john jo

Dont judge an man by his post count!;)

So have we established the tamaskans are the same or very similar as utonagans only their name was changed by some crazy lady? Or something along these lines?

Maybe you guys can go through some of the differences between these dogs for us?

moonzmum

nothing fishy at all, I for one, like to keep my eye on sites where my breed of dog pop up, you seem very quick to condemn the Northern Inuit when you dont really know anything about the breed. Yes there were splits between club members and yes they decided to give their dogs other names, but that is ancient history and both the Northern Inuit society and the Utonagon society work well together now but both are seperate breeds going in their own direction. is it a crime to join a forum and to reply to a thread about a breed of dog that I have some knowledge of?

moonzmum

john jo wrote: »

Dont judge an man by his post count!;)

So have we established the tamaskans are the same or very similar as utonagans only their name was changed by some crazy lady? Or something along these lines?

Maybe you guys can go through some of the differences between these dogs for us?

i will try to explain, its a bit complicated lol. Firstly, there was the Northern Inuit, a club was formed but as will always happen, some of the members disagreed on what they wanted from the breed, so several members went off and formed their own club and decided to call their dogs the Utonagon, somewhere along the way, they added a couple of other breeds so that now, apart from the older Utes, they are very different in looks to the NI. the woman you asked about in the original post , then fell out with the Utonagan society and decided to call her dogs Tamaskan, rumour has it that the Czech wolf dog was used in her lines, she fled ireland to Finland and is now back in the Uk. I told you it was complicated. the idea behind the NI, was to create a breed of dog that resembled the wolf but without any of the wolf characteristics, for over 25 years, the Northern Inuit has been bred like to like and we are very proud of the progress and popularity of the breed.

Boris25

peasant wrote: »

Am I imagining things or is there a remarkable number of low postcount and relatively new users "discussing" dogs that nobody else ever heard of before?

Ye wouldn't all happen to know each other, would ye ? :D:D

Something smells fishy here ...

Is is wrong for a new member on a forum to join a discussion on a subject that they have knowledge of? (which by the way I was told about by a friend who is a member of this site who has not posted on this thread).

John Jo (who I do not know) asked a question and has has been given honest replies.

We are not discussing dogs that nobody else has ever heard of. Northern Inuits are a popular breed which we as owners are happy to discuss with anyone interested. Hence the reason myself and Moonzmum have answered.

peasant

British Inuit, Northern Inuit, Utanagan, Tamaskan ...what else?

All at each other's throats and with conflicting information about "breed" origin, standards and behaviour.

I'll stick with my initial assessment: a marketing ploy and a bloody mess !

But dogs that look like wolves are fashionable and there will probably always be a (lucrative) market for these kind of shenanigans so every "breed" organisation is keen to gain Kennel Club registration and with it the licence to print money ...only trouble in this case seems to be that not all "breeders" involved are pulling the same string and rather diverge into "breeds" of their own.

Which reminds me of:

Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the ****ing Judean People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah...
JUDITH: Splitters.
P.F.J.: Splitters...
FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG: What?
LORETTA: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.
REG: We're the People's Front of Judea!
LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
REG: People's Front! C-huh.
FRANCIS: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
REG: He's over there.
P.F.J.: Splitter!

I just hope that the dogs are doing ok while all this is going on ...

Boris25

Could I just ask you peasant. Have you ever met a northern inuit?

peasant

No.

But nowhere have I said that I have issues with the dog as such.

Actually I NEVER have issues with any dogs, always with people only.

Amimad

Well time for me to post;)
It was me, I told a friend of mine, an owner of NI about the the thread, purely becase I thought the OP might like an answer from an owner/or somebody with some famliarty with the breed.
They are unsual dogs & a realtively new breed, but as some one who knows them, doesn't own them ,I have to say the seem to make good pets & lovely Companions. The reasons they are not my breed of choice is cause they need constant company & that Whte har gets every where:D lol.

As I have said before, sometimes ths forum is not very welcoming/accepting of other views. I don't mind a good arguement,but we should really try & take an un bias vew & try offer advice that might be helpful

I'm sure I'll get some some snide remarks for making ths post but really I just wanted to point out that as far as I am aware there has been nothing fishy
about this thread.

Ami

Boris25

Peasant it appears that you have issues with people that you know nothing about.

Our dogs are certainly not as quoted by yourself "a marketing ploy and a bloody mess" and are doing very well thank you.

peasant

Last time I checked I was as entitled as anyone else to voice my OPINION on this forum ...and that's just what I'm doing.

In my opinion there are more than enough breeds already, too many actually.
Most of them have been "developed" to a degree that has negatively impacted the health of the dogs concerned.

All the world needs is another bunch of people dabbling in yet another breed (and not very scientifically so or in a well informed manner, if the bumpf on the "breeders" websites is anything to go by).

There are thousands of SURPLUS dogs killed in Ireland every year ...why get some "exotic" and not even recognised "breed" when there are perfectly beautiful dogs (see "wolfy" dog in this thread) looking for a new home ?

I can understand people wanting to by a purebred dog from a good breeder (even though I myself won't be buying a dog ever again), but buying a new "breed" from "breeders" who aren't even sure what to call their dogs, never mind what they actually are (hybrids or not) and where they came from and when...that's beyond me.

That's my opinion and I'll stick to it.

Boris25

Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion but I did not see anywhere that this thread was about rescue dogs.

I do appreciate that there are many dogs in need of homes but then if we all rescued dogs (as we have done in the past) there would be no breeds at all and dogs as a species would become extinct as all rescued dogs are neutered or spayed.

Yes I do know what our dogs are called. They are called northern inuits. There is no dispute on what breed they are.

They are a very well respected breed. Northern inuits are winners at many shows, in many disciplines, including a first at crufts this year.

peasant

Boris25 wrote: »

. Northern inuits are winners at many shows, in many disciplines, including a first at crufts this year.

In what group are they registered then?
Or did you mean Scruffts?

see here:

http://www.theinuitdogassociation.com/news.htm

As much as as personally dislike The Kennel Club (the club who runs Crufts)and show dog breeding (and where it has led some breeds) ...in this case they seem to have shown some sense and prevented some over-eager dog-dabblers from officially registering yet another "breed".

This is why I brought rescue dogs into the discussion.
If all you're getting is some dog from a self-appointed breed (with possible health issues thrown in on top), you might as well save yourself some money (and a dogs life) and get yourself a cute mix from a rescue and make up your own breed name when people ask you what dog it is

oh ...and in reply to this:

Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion but I did not see anywhere that this thread was about rescue dogs.

If you want to start nit-picking ...the OP never asked about Northern (or whatever) Inuits either ...the question was about Tamaskans

john jo

hi guys don’t mind the original post i feel people have done their best to answer it. id welcome the discussion and debate at the moment because im getting some really good views from everyone. I don’t thinks anyone’s gone of topic really we're still talking about very similar dogs so its all good!!

Tikaani

Having just joined this forum, I was impressed to see the NI mentioned but disappointed also to see a Moderator giving principles which discrimate a dog of any breed.
Is this a forum which as a new member I will feel injustice to all threads?
This I ask before I comment any further.

fits

Tikaani wrote: »

Having just joined this forum, I was impressed to see the NI mentioned but disappointed also to see a Moderator giving principles which discrimate a dog of any breed.
Is this a forum which as a new member I will feel injustice to all threads?
This I ask before I comment any further.

The moderator in question does not mod this forum and can therefore be perceived as a regular user here (same applies to me).
If you call difference of opinion 'injustice' then maybe you should look for a forum where people agree on everything...;)

I find this topic really interesting, and had never heard of any of this before.

Boris25

peasant wrote: »

In what group are they registered then?
Or did you mean Scruffts?

see here:

http://www.theinuitdogassociation.com/news.htm

As much as as personally dislike The Kennel Club (the club who runs Crufts)and show dog breeding (and where it has led some breeds) ...in this case they seem to have shown some sense and prevented some over-eager dog-dabblers from officially registering yet another "breed".

This is why I brought rescue dogs into the discussion.
If all you're getting is some dog from a self-appointed breed (with possible health issues thrown in on top), you might as well save yourself some money (and a dogs life) and get yourself a cute mix from a rescue and make up your own breed name when people ask you what dog it is

oh ...and in reply to this:


If you want to start nit-picking ...the OP never asked about Northern (or whatever) Inuits either ...the question was about Tamaskans

No I mean Crufts.

peasant

Boris25 wrote: »

No I mean Crufts.

A dog of a "breed" not recognised by the British Kennel Club can't win anything at Crufts ..other than maybe an agility or obedience competition. But then it wouldn't do so as "Northern Inuit" but as "working sheepdog" or "crossbreed"

http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/

peasant

Tikaani wrote: »

Having just joined this forum, I was impressed to see the NI mentioned but disappointed also to see a Moderator giving principles which discrimate a dog of any breed.
Is this a forum which as a new member I will feel injustice to all threads?
This I ask before I comment any further.

As you can see, I'm not a fan of made-up designer "breeds". This is my opinion that I voice on this forum.

If you feel unfairly treated, use the report button () to report my posts and let the moderators of this forum sort it out.

john jo

Aright this seems to be turning into a tit for tat jibe match however i am really glad to hear all opinions but im just starting to get worried people are getting put off on getting involved. Id like to hear a bit more about a Inuit if anyone can help?

Boris25

Hi John Jo,

A good place for information on the northern inuit is www.the-northern-inuit-society.com

To me, as an owner of these lovely dogs, they couldn't be better. The only downside we have is as Amimad has already said they do do not like being alone and have to be with either you or another dog all the time. They also do moult alot!!

They are very loyal and easily trainable. We have alot of success with our dogs at both northern inuit and agricultural shows. We have had many BIS and RBIS. We also do obedience and agility training.

Here are a few pics of our dogs.

peasant

Gorgeous dogs, though ...I'll grant you that !

Morganna

its very nice to see them doing agility and we have met last year at an agricultural show i know the estranged husband to of the other woman

john jo

Thanks boris lovely looking dogs i must say!! How many have you got?

Boris25

I think I remember who you are now Morganna. I think we met at the Ballinrobe show last year.

We have 3 dogs John Jo.

Morganna

yes we did i had a gsd there/

Cato

Tamaskans and NIs look the same to me can anyone tell what the difference is besides some obscure breeding traits?

Morganna

Dont forget the utonagan

Cato

Morganna wrote: »

Dont forget the utonagan

hehe yea, this is so confusing!

darazan

john jo wrote: »

So have we established the tamaskans are the same or very similar as utonagans only their name was changed by some crazy lady? Or something along these lines?

Maybe you guys can go through some of the differences between these dogs for us?

okay, look. NI and Utonagan breeders don't like Tamaskans, so the opinion's going to be biased. If you really want to find out about the breed (although not yet recognized) go talk to a Tamaskan breeder. I think you can find was to message them on the official Tamaskan sites: http://www.tamaskan-dog.com/index2.htm

These dogs are meant to look like wolves without wolf blood in them. Claims that they have CWD blood are entirely false. The Tamaskan sites will tell you their history and the bloodlines used, so even if you don't believe me, you can trust them. The motto of the Tamaskan Dog Register is "Wolf-Dog without the Wolf." On the TDR's site (listed above) it will tell you everything you need to know about Tamaskans, temperment, health, breed standard, etc.

I would say, no matter what, go to the official breed sites for whatever breed you want to look at. If you were looking at GSDs, you wouldn't try to find out information from the Border Collie sites. It's just the same with Tamaskans, and if someone tells you they have wolf in them, they're lying, simple as that.

darazan

Cato wrote: »

Tamaskans and NIs look the same to me can anyone tell what the difference is besides some obscure breeding traits?

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, NIs have a broader range of what they allow in their dogs, in terms or color, coat, etc. Tamaskans allow few deviations: there are 3 accepted coat colors, and long hair is unacceptable in all cases at the current time. If you do an image search for Nothern Inuits, you'll see that not all of them look like the one pictured above, but Tamaskans don't vary too much in looks. To me, and I'm not trying to bash NIs, I think they are beautiful, NIs still have a bit too much of a husky look to them, but of course, this varies from dog to dog. Also, NIs accept any eye color or color combination, whereas Tamaskans only accept naturally occuring eye colors as found in mature wolves. (blue is not accepted, only the brown or amber, I believe)

lightening

darazan wrote: »

long hair is unacceptable in all cases at the current time.

Tamaskans only accept naturally occuring eye colors as found in mature wolves. (blue is not accepted, only the brown or amber, I believe)

Is the dog less of a dog because of its eye colour or length of hair? Is it a good idea to exclude the animal from the gene pool promoting inbreeding and ill health because a bit of paper says a certain eye colour is unacceptable in a perfectly healthy dog?

Have we learnt anything? Is this going to happen again and again because we think they look cool?

Not an attack on you darazan of course. This is what peasant has been trying to say.

whitser

yes i've heard of them. they are closely related to the labradooodle,the jackadoodle,and all the other makey up breeds that originate in the yards of money hungry puppy peddlers.

darazan

I know you're not trying to attack my point, and I'm not saying that particular eye or coat color really matters to me, I was simply listing the differences in the breed standard of the two breeds. While I have not looked much into Northern Inuits breeding program (although I'm sure it's perfectly fantastic), I know that Tamaskan breeders are keeping track (as well as they have been able to, very early on, records weren't kept of matings, even before they were called Tamaskans) of matings to make sure that inbreeding is not occuring, they are also requiring certain tests in order to catch any problems that might be creeping into the breed, so they are able to tell potential owners what problems might occur. Breeding for specific traits isn't a bad thing, as long as you don't take it too far. I believe that inbreeding is a horrible thing, and I commend and appreciate ANY breeder who does not practice this. There are ways to get a good, consistent dog through proper breeding, and I believe that Tamaskan breeders are doing so.

lightening

darazan wrote: »

I believe that Tamaskan breeders are doing so.

With such a shallow gene pool because of their specific requirements I really don't know how they do this!

Anyway thanks for being the only of a few new and vocal members to get back on this.

beth-lou

Boris25 wrote: »

Hi John Jo,

Ah look, it's the littlest hobo!

Beautiful dog, really, really stunning.

I don't see the issue in relation to responsible breeding of these dogs. And as has been said, all pure breeds were once upon a time considered cross breeds. I|would however have reservations in the case of the tamaskan as the breed standard as has been outlined by darazan.

While all my dogs are rescues and always have been and probably always will be, as much as I'd love a Bearnese mountain dog, I can understand why someone would want this type of dog and so long as it is being done in a responsible way then it shouldn't be a problem.

The problem with dogs in this country is not the responsible breeders, who love their dogs dearly and try so hard to find good decent homes for their pups. They are not the ones allowing their dogs to breed unchecked and throwing the pups out on the street. Unfortunately it is the general attitude of the Irish people to neutering and looking after their dogs that is the problem, so I think the anger and resentment felt about the situation for our poor rescue dogs should be firmly placed with the general public and that is where the problem needs to be tackled.

That is leaving aside the unscrupulous breeders in puppy farms and the idiots who let their dogs roam. That's another argument, but not relevant to the question posed.