car clocking story

masterwriter

http://www.nca.ie/eng/Media_Zone/Press%20Releases/Car_clocking_investigation.html

bazz26

I've always had my doubts about that place to be honest.

Steve

easy answer - make the NCT records on milage available to the public instead of it being under the official secrets act ffs.

Seth Brundle

What kind of crap consumer agency is this?

JHMEG

kbannon wrote: »

What kind of crap consumer agency is this?

+1

Vladimir Mozgovoi has agreed to be a nice man and that's good enough?!?

Seth Brundle

I contacted the NCA about this and got the following reply (a while ago but I forgot about it!).

Dear kbannon

I wish to refer to your E mail of 20 March 2008, to the National Consumer Agency, querying why the Agency opted for an Undertaking, from a car dealer, rather then prosecuting the trader for misleading commercial practices, in contravention of section 43 of the Consumer Protection Act 2007.

At the outset, I should explain that the Consumer Protection Act has been given the NCA a range of enforcement tools, (both civil and criminal) to advance compliance with consumer legislation.

It is up to the Agency to use these tools as it sees fit. The NCA decides, depending,on the circumstances of each case, which enforcement action would be most appropriate.

In the case of the car dealer, the NCA decided that it was important to address the issue as quickly as possible. Having regard to pressure on the courts, it could take some time before a prosecution could be taken. In this regard, the Agency felt, that it could not risk the possibility of other consumers being exposed, while waiting for the outcome of a prosecution. Accordingly, it chose the speedier option of seeking an undertaking from the car dealer, to cease the practice of selling clocked cars and to compensate consumers who had been sold cars with altered odometer readings.

I should explain that the Agency will continue to monitor the car dealer to ensure compliance with the commitments of the Undertaking. If the company fails to do this, the Agency will have no hesitation in taking appropriate legal action.

Yours sincerely
***** *******

:rolleyes:

javaboy

So no penalty for them except bad press?

On the flip side at least now you know if you buy a car off them that it won't be clocked.

JHMEG

kbannon wrote: »

I contacted the NCA about this and got the following reply (a while ago but I forgot about it!).

:rolleyes:

"Quick Igor, stop fiddling with that odometer, someone from the consumer crowd is coming. They phoned ahead to make sure someone would be here"

javaboy

JHMEG wrote: »

"Quick Igor, stop fiddling with that odometer, someone from the consumer crowd is coming. They phoned ahead to make sure someone would be here"

Igor? What is this place, Count Duckula's Dodgy Dealership?

Just take a seat there and Nanny will be along to work out your finance arrangements.

JHMEG

javaboy wrote: »

Igor? What is this place, Count Duckula's Dodgy Dealership?

Did you read the thread? Not my fault the owner's name is Vladimir Mozgovoi.

javaboy

JHMEG wrote: »

Did you read the thread? Not my fault the owner's name is Vladimir Mozgovoi.

Sorry I just can't hear the name Igor without thinking of this lot:

unkel

NCA wrote:

I am glad that we secured this commitment from the company

I am glad the NCAs standards are so high they are glad to secure this kind of commitment :rolleyes:

But the problem is widespread. I have good reason to believe that a very significant number of second hand car dealers clock the cars they have for sale. And that there are not enough resources in our law-enforcement system to go after those dealers unless specific claims are made to them. Even then, I've heard that our friend Santa (formerly of the Grotto in Lucan) has set up shop elsewhere in Dublin

niceirishfella

Good reason to Believe?
I worked in the trade (previously) and its RIFE.
I could name loads of dealerships NOW that are actively clocking cars and selling bodgejob repair ex-rentals too!
But if I did, my post would be removed.

Be WARY out there - Buyer beware!

Mylow

kbannon wrote: »

I contacted the NCA about this and got the following reply (a while ago but I forgot about it!).

In the case of the car dealer, the NCA decided that it was important to address the issue as quickly as possible. Having regard to pressure on the courts, it could take some time before a prosecution could be taken. In this regard, the Agency felt, that it could not risk the possibility of other consumers being exposed, while waiting for the outcome of a prosecution.

:rolleyes:

But they managed to put pressure on the court to prosecute a shopkeeper for failing to display the selling price of a 2-litre container of milk and the unit price of fresh cream

Full story here

Phaetonman

I've a case pending with a dealer who clocked my car. The OCDA are taking on my case, never heard of this NCA crowd.
Oh right I see they have renamed.

To those criticising the NCA, they do some excellent work within the legislation that is out there. They've prosecuted dealers before and you can expect more in the next few months.

easy answer - make the NCT records on milage available to the public instead of it being under the official secrets act ffs.

Wrong answer. The mileage on my NCT cert is 40,000 less than on the car.

Seth Brundle

Mylow wrote: »

But they managed to put pressure on the court to prosecute a shopkeeper for failing to display the selling price of a 2-litre container of milk and the unit price of fresh cream

Full story here

Christ Almighty!

Pretend Consumer Protection Group wrote:

Commenting on the court outcome, the Chief Executive of the National Consumer Agency, Ms Ann Fitzgerald said: "It is not acceptable for traders to adopt a haphazard approach towards price display.

Well done Ann. We can't have haphazard approaches out there now, can we?

Phaetonman wrote: »

I've a case pending with a dealer who clocked my car. The OCDA are taking on my case, never heard of this NCA crowd.
Oh right I see they have renamed.

Keep us informed on the result!

Phaetonman wrote: »

To those criticising the NCA, they do some excellent work within the legislation that is out there. They've prosecuted dealers before and you can expect more in the next few months.

Maybe so but this doesn't initially seem evident given the excuse given to me and then taking a case over the price of a 2L pack of milk.

Phaetonman wrote: »

Wrong answer. The mileage on my NCT cert is 40,000 less than on the car.

The mileage should be on the NCT cert and available to current owners of a car. Keeping the mileage hidden, whilst not necessarily stopping clocking, will reduce the likleihood of it or at least the amount of km/s or miles trimmed!

JHMEG

Yeah, but there's nothing more annoying tho than going into a shop and there's no prices on half the stuff, just like in B&Q, PC World and Currys.

Seth Brundle

I'm not disputing that. However, given their resources, etc. which is more important?
A dealer selling dodgy cars or someone not displaying the price of milk?

JHMEG

kbannon wrote: »

I'm not disputing that. However, given their resources, etc. which is more important?
A dealer selling dodgy cars or someone not displaying the price of milk?

In that case the car dealer thing, obviously! But the B&Q, PCWorld etc thing is also quite serious given the volume of people that shop there.

(I was being a bit tongue in cheek tho)

Seth Brundle

OK, but why aren't the National Consumer Agency going after them? Its good that the Gala owner was taken to task over what he did but surely their resources are better spent going after bigger and better examples?

JHMEG

Are a lot of car dealers Fianna Fail party members maybe?

junkyard

It strikes me that the bigger the crime in this country the smaller the penalty, you get screwed for Mickey Mouse stuff but nobody blinks an eye if you do a major rip-off.:rolleyes:

blastman

As me da always said, you rob a thousand quid from the bank, it's your problem. You rob a million, it's their problem! :rolleyes:

Bordeaux64

I purchased a BMW from Manor Autos in Ballymount in August 06 only to discover 2 weeks later that the 54000 mileage reading was recorded the previous Christmas as 94000. I have been in contact with the Gardai, Revenue and NCA along with solicitors, its slowly making its way to court. Has anyone else purchased from this garage either clocked or irregular cars ?

cubix

IT makes buying a second hand car a real pain. As mentioned while Nct records disclosed for mileage checks would be helpful , a car can do an awful lot of miles in the first four years only to be clocked before nct test. Went to look at a 01 mondeo 87'000/miles in a small Tallaght garage today. While no guarantee it was clocked it had alot of wear in all the usual places for a 87K car of this size.
Bordeaux64 had did you find out the true mileage in the end, contact the last owner, or can you even do this anymore?. Also can someone confirm if you are the legal owner of a car do the NCT have to give you all past test info

Thanks Cubix

niceirishfella

Everyone needs to calm down and see the wood from the tree's. Clocked cars are easy to spot..........you just gotta know how and where to look and if a car just does'nt seem right to you - walk away.

S.I.R

nothing illigal with clocking a car , only when you sell it you have to put its milage back to the best of your knollege.


:mad:

masterwriter

niceirishfella wrote: »

Clocked cars are easy to spot..........you just gotta know how and where to look .

Can you tell us where and what to look for in as much detail as possible? Thanks

Ferris

masterwriter wrote: »

Can you tell us where and what to look for in as much detail as possible? Thanks

First look at the service history, you should see regular services and there shouldn't be a large time gap between now and the last time the car was serviced. Books can be forged stolen etc. though.

Newer cars such as BMW's store the service history on the key so bring the key to a dealer.

Car condition:

Interior: look at the wear on the seats, wheel, gearstick, pedals. ou have to make a judgement call as to wheather this reflects the cars mileage.

Exterior: Excessive stonechips, chips on the windscreen, underbody damage should give away a car thats seen a lot of miles. Again a judgement call is necessary.

Others will have other tricks to tell a cars true mileage i'm sure.

rebel.ranter

You also should ring the original Dealer that serviced the car, the servic books can be bought fully stamped up for €25. So that service book in the glove box is not worth a damn without a back up phone call to the service department of the servicing garage.
In a BMW the mileage information is stored in three places, one of them being the key, however it is possible that the clocking is done for all three locations.

niceirishfella

rebel.ranter wrote: »

You also should ring the original Dealer that serviced the car, the servic books can be bought fully stamped up for €25. So that service book in the glove box is not worth a damn without a back up phone call to the service department of the servicing garage.
In a BMW the mileage information is stored in three places, one of them being the key, however it is possible that the clocking is done for all three locations.

This is another "stealth" bollix charge! €25 to stamp up a book in a 2 minutes that should have been stamped up in the fist instance when the car was there being serviced. I would and never have paid for it - and insist it gets doen free of charge.........
Its no wonder big dealers have BIG WINDOWS out front.


But Rebels right, a good clocker will cover their tracks - but most in my experience are sloppy and cut corners - again, a clocked car can be spotted with a bit of a keen eye and by using the old grey matter.......


so eazzzzy on the beer over the weekend!

Bordeaux64

Hi Cubix, Car was an import from the uk, i didnt realise at the time i could have paid £10.00 online for a history from various uk websites that would have given me a more accurate mileage history. There were no tell tail signs excessive wear on foot pedals etc, bar the door handle being a bit shabby. FRANK KEANE BMW were offering free car inspections and they notified my of the mileage history. So in future if your buying car from the UK or Ireland there are websites available for checking some of the cars history. Also be very aware when buying jap imports, heard a story of a retired mechanic being offered a free trip to Japan, only catch was he had to clock all the cars on the ship bringing the cars back to Ireland. Even they are not sacred.