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Sunderland going down?

245

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    I, for one, feel it is actually instinctive to support irish players and managers in their ventures abroad.
    How do you feel about supporting Irish players and managers in their ventures at home?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭shane86


    DesF wrote: »
    How do you feel about supporting Irish players and managers in their ventures at home?

    Here we go again :)

    Agree with Bill. I couldnt really care less for Reading other than that I want 2 of our top players and one of our developing players to be playing at the highest level.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    shane86 wrote: »
    Here we go again :)
    I'm not going anywhere, if the previous caller wishes to answer the question, so be it, I'll leave it at that.

    Don't want to be called a troll for pointing out hypocritical standards though. Oh no.

    I'd actually be genuinely interested in the answer though :) And the rationale behind it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    The fact is that it is astounding how many Irish people are involved in this club:
    Niall Quinn, Roy Keane, Andy Reid, Liam Miller, Anthony Stokes, Roy O Donovan, Paul McShane, Daryl Murphy, Ian Harte, David Connolly, Graham Kavanagh, Gavin Donohue + the people that actually own the club, Charlie Chawk etc.

    I, for one, feel it is actually instinctive to support irish players and managers in their ventures abroad. This has been going on for years, look at Houghton/McGrath etc at Villa.

    The reasons most people give for supporting the likes of Man Utd/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal are a hell of a lot weaker than somebody who wants to support sunderland based on the huge irish connection IMO.
    DesF wrote: »
    How do you feel about supporting Irish players and managers in their ventures at home?


    lol Des. Your position on this one is weaksauce to say the least. Your posts can be so bitter at times.

    I hope Sunderland stay up because of the massive Irish involvement in the club. I would like to see two of Bolton, Boro, Newcastle, Reading, Wigan, Birmingham join Derby when it is all said and done and for Sunderland and Fulham to stay up (for differing reasons).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    lol Des. Your position on this one is weaksauce to say the least. Your posts can be so bitter at times.
    Way to get personal.

    Now, do you want to explain that? PM will do if you don't want it to be public.

    Or is it just going to be name-calling?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    The reasons most people give for supporting the likes of Man Utd/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal are a hell of a lot weaker than somebody who wants to support sunderland based on the huge irish connection IMO.

    So a genuine love people hold for a club is not as strong as . . . ." well, i'm from Ireland, and they're from Ireland, so i must like them" pfft, nonsense.

    In fairness, Des is right, if Bill loves Sunderland cause the of the Irish involvment but is not an EL fan, that is ridiculously hypocritical.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    DesF wrote: »
    ffs.

    That was against the best team in the league.

    They've also been involved in a 6-4, a 7-4 and beaten Liverpool 3-1.

    Your one example of them stifling your team is a bit silly tbh.

    It's not silly at all

    You said "never"

    You were wrong. Now move on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    DesF wrote: »
    Way to get personal.

    Now, do you want to explain that? PM will do if you don't want it to be public.

    Or is it just going to be name-calling?

    I critiscised your post(s) not you personally. I said "your posts" are bitter. Not "you" are bitter.

    The reason should be fairly obvious. Where your trenchant hatred of Sunderland comes from I have no idea. I find your constant sniping and matyrism for the good of the Eircom league to be comedic. Whether you like it or not, there are a lot of Irish people involved in Sunderland football club. I like to see Irish people succeed in football no matter where they ply their trade or for whom. As such, I don't think Irish people looking out for the results of Sunderland is something that should grind your gears.

    The guy makes a good post listing all of the Irish people involved in the club. And you come back with the tired old response. Yes you are the better; more honest; more down and dirty; more honourable; and ultimately more "real" fan because you go to Eircom league divison one games. We get it.

    But people can love and support football however they want. And you should let them get on with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    Unearthly wrote: »
    It's not silly at all

    You said "never"

    You were wrong. Now move on
    Bravo.

    Well done.
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Yes you are the better; more honest; more down and dirty; more honourable; and ultimately more "real" fan because you go to Eircom league divison one games. We get it.
    Will you please tell me where I ever said these things?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    DesF wrote: »
    Will you please tell me where I ever said these things?

    My basic abillity to read through the lines indicates that deep down, you pride yourself on being a more genuine football supporter than the rest of us chumps. So no, I don't think you have ever blatantly said that. But your posts in relation to the Irish National team (lambasting people who turn up in costume); the premiership (lambasting those who watch super sunday from the pub) and domestic football (lambasting those who don't follow their local club) stink of an elitist mindset.

    Feel free to disagree with me of course. Good luck.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Sunderland are simply on their way to becoming the new Celtic. I despise the stereotype that supports Celtic and I will be the exact same with Sunderland folk.

    I also hope they go down because, simply put, they're shite.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    So a genuine love people hold for a club is not as strong as . . . ." well, i'm from Ireland, and they're from Ireland, so i must like them" pfft, nonsense.

    In fairness, Des is right, if Bill loves Sunderland cause the of the Irish involvment but is not an EL fan, that is ridiculously hypocritical.

    Not really. I like seeing Irish actors doing well abroad. Doesn't make me a hypocrite because I choose not to go down to the Gaiety and see what the locals are up to.

    There is a higher standard of quality in the English league. They acquire the best of Irish talent. I think it's perfectly understandable why Irish people would want Irish players abroad to do well.

    For those very reasons, and the fact Roy Keane is one of my heroes in the game, I really hope Sunderland survive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Bungalow Bill


    DesF wrote: »
    How do you feel about supporting Irish players and managers in their ventures at home?

    Frankly I don't care if a team from Drumcondra beats a team from Tallaght, or Derry from Cork or whatever. Thats not my fault, I simply don't care.
    However, if it is a case of an Irishman competing with others from Spain, England, Africa, I'll support the Irishman every time.

    As for the deep-seated logic behind it? I guess there is within me somewhere a sense of patriotism and trying to do my country proud. If this manifests itself in speaking a bit of irish and supporting the National sporting teams, then so be it. If we were invaded by Nazis in the morning, i'd probably join the army to defend the country!

    I also don't find the Eircom league particularly intruiging or entertaining. The premiership is much more enjoyable to me. Maybe its because of all the coverage/knowledge of players/standard of football etc, but it is actually quite difficult to sit down and watch a full match between two very average teams in the LOI.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    I also hope they go down because, simply put, they're shite.

    Of course

    but if every rubbish team in the prem were to get relegated, you would need about 8 relegation spots


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Frankly I don't care if a team from Drumcondra beats a team from Tallaght, or Derry from Cork or whatever. Thats not my fault, I simply don't care.
    However, if it is a case of an Irishman competing with others from Spain, England, Africa, I'll support the Irishman every time.

    What if Drogheda played Barcelona in a Champions League? Would you be the model patriot then? If so then how come you can support them in a big game but not do it week in, week out as well as taking an interest in the lads who are abroad? It's a contradiction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,121 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    What if Drogheda played Barcelona in a Champions League? Would you be the model patriot then? If so then how come you can support them in a big game but not do it week in, week out as well as taking an interest in the lads who are abroad? It's a contradiction.

    No it's not.

    He'd be patriotic and support an Irish team playing a foreign team, but there's no patriotism cheering one Irish team over another.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    What if Drogheda played Barcelona in a Champions League? Would you be the model patriot then?
    What if Drogheda played a Swedish team?

    What if that Swedish team had a Swedish player who used to play for a Dutch, Scottish, Spanish and English team?

    Who to support then?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    No it's not.

    He'd be patriotic and support an Irish team playing a foreign team, but there's no patriotism cheering one Irish team over another.

    There's patriotism in supporting the Irish league week in week out as opposed to a foreign one tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,121 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    I never said there wasn't, just your example wasn't great.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Fair enough. My point is that we all saw the bandwagon jumpers when Shels played Deportivo. Now we see the same bandwagon jumpers at Sunderland. How come people will go buy Sunderland jerseys, organise trips to games and become followers yet won't pay a few quid to go to see Shels etc? Serious hypocracy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    There's patriotism in supporting the Irish league week in week out as opposed to a foreign one tbh.

    See, this all boils down to what is MORE patriotic then. Right? The Eircom league diehards think that they are the true footballing patriots - fine. And sure, that is more patriotic than following Sunderland. But to say that supporting Sunderland because they have heavy Irish involvement is not patriotic at all because there is a more patriotic alternative is bollocks quite frankly.

    It's a game. Let people engage with it as they see fit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    Can we get back to the topic of Sunderlands impending relegation please?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Fair enough. My point is that we all saw the bandwagon jumpers when Shels played Deportivo.

    It's not bandwagon jumping it's exactly the kind of patriotism the guy was talking about. Think about the Irish cricket team in the last World Cup as another example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Bungalow Bill


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    What if Drogheda played Barcelona in a Champions League? Would you be the model patriot then? If so then how come you can support them in a big game but not do it week in, week out as well as taking an interest in the lads who are abroad? It's a contradiction.

    As per my logic, I would 'support' Drogheda because they are an Irish team. I wouldn't claim to be a lifelong follower or anything, but I would wish them well as I like to see Irish people doing well.

    I wouldn't support them week in week out because it could be any irish team playing against barcelona, and I would support any of them in that game.


    The contradiction is why you want to see Sunderland go down, surely this means that you are wishing bad luck on a huge amount of Irish players in England, yet you'll support to the grave the ones who probably aren't good enough to play at a higher level?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    See, this all boils down to what is MORE patriotic then. Right? The Eircom league diehards think that they are the true footballing patriots - fine. And sure, that is more patriotic than following Sunderland. But to say that supporting Sunderland because they have heavy Irish involvement is not patriotic at all because there is a more patriotic alternative is bollocks quite frankly.

    It's a game. Let people engage with it as they see fit.

    Apologies, the word 'more' was missing from that post. Both are patriotic in their own right, I just don't understand how you can have one without the other i.e. support the Irish Sunderland players but not the eL players playing on your doorstep.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Fair enough. My point is that we all saw the bandwagon jumpers when Shels played Deportivo. Now we see the same bandwagon jumpers at Sunderland. How come people will go buy Sunderland jerseys, organise trips to games and become followers yet won't pay a few quid to go to see Shels etc? Serious hypocracy.

    Hypocracy? All sports are there on some level to entertain people. I reckon watching Kieron Richardson and Andy Reid go about their business is a million miles more entertaining than seeing Kevin Hunt and Jason Byrne strut their stuff because you get to see footballers that are more dynamic; intelligent and technically competent play at a level that is faster and laced with more creativity and guile.

    So if someone wants to spend their freetime and disposable income watching the latter up close and they enjoy it then let them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    The contradiction is why you want to see Sunderland go down, surely this means that you are wishing bad luck on a huge amount of Irish players in England, yet you'll support to the grave the ones who probably aren't good enough to play at a higher level?

    Nope I'd love to see the likes of Murphy, Reid and Stokes in the Prem. I just want Roy Keane to fail and get relegated. If he wasn't their manager my attitude would be different i.e. I love Reading.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Bungalow Bill


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Hypocracy? All sports are there on some level to entertain people. I reckon watching Kieron Richardson and Andy Reid go about their business is a million miles more entertaining than seeing Kevin Hunt and Jason Byrne strut their stuff because you get to see footballers that are more dynamic; intelligent and technically competent play at a level that is faster and laced with more creativity and guile.

    So if someone wants to spend their freetime and disposable income watching the latter up close and they enjoy it then let them.

    I guess this post sums up the prem vs LOI part of my argument perfectly. As I said, it is a wrench for me to watch a very average game of football between two teams I don't care for on a weeknight.

    I support Sunderland because they have a massive Irish connection and are pitting their wits against best league in the world at the moment.

    And for what its worth, initially I did just have an interest in Sunderland for the irish players, but have since grown to learn their squad inside out, the history of the club, the humour of the people and I find myself willing them to win more than any club ever, even if there are very few irishmen on the actual pitch. This may be a contradiction, and on some level i'm sure it is, but you can't help what you think.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I guess this post sums up the prem vs LOI part of my argument perfectly. As I said, it is a wrench for me to watch a very average game of football between two teams I don't care for on a weeknight.

    I support Sunderland because they have a massive Irish connection and are pitting their wits against best league in the world at the moment.

    And for what its worth, initially I did just have an interest in Sunderland for the irish players, but have since grown to learn their squad inside out, the history of the club, the humour of the people and I find myself willing them to win more than any club ever, even if there are very few irishmen on the actual pitch. This may be a contradiction, and on some level i'm sure it is, but you can't help what you think.

    And good for you imo.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    And for what its worth, initially I did just have an interest in Sunderland for the irish players, but have since grown to learn their squad inside out, the history of the club, the humour of the people and I find myself willing them to win more than any club ever, even if there are very few irishmen on the actual pitch. This may be a contradiction, and on some level i'm sure it is, but you can't help what you think.

    What if everyone that is Irish and associated with the club leaves? Players are sold, owners sell up, Keane gets the bullet etc? Will you honestly stay a fan then or will you move to Reading for example? If so then fair play and I can have no complaints.


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