Some help RE: Full Moped Licence.

noccer

Hello, I'm a noobie so please go easy!

I was reading the post on Moped Licence:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055170034
I decided to start a new post because it’s similar but different. Let me explain:

I bought a moped in January 2002. I got a combined provisional B and M licence in December 2001 until dec 2003, then renewed and continued to drive the moped on my 2nd provisional until dec 2005.

I then went off the road because I was out of the country for much of 2006 and didn’t want to have to pay out a full year’s insurance premium. On return I decided to take up cycling instead of the moped for a while.

I applied for my Car driving test last June (2007) so that I could get back on the moped and of course get a full car licence which is always handy to have. The test finally came up there last Tuesday. I passed, woohoo! But the celebrations were short lived: I learned that a Full B licence for a Car no longer automatically gives you a full M moped licence... or does it?
http://www.transport.ie/roads/licensing/faqs/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1838

"The holder of a category B licence granted prior to 21 October, 2006 is entitled to drive a moped up to 50cc with a maximum design speed of 45 km/hour. All category B licences granted, for the first time, on or after 21 October, 2006 do not hold this entitlement. Such licence holders wishing to drive a category M vehicle would have to obtain a provisional licence in category M and successfully undergo the practical driving test in order to obtain a full licence in this category."

See, it doesn’t say there that the "category B licence granted prior to 21 October, 2006" has to be a FULL licence does it?! Technically I've held a category B licence since 2002, just not a full one.

Does anyone know what the "licence" in question is? Full/Provisional or both?

IF it’s a case that I cannot use the moped on my full car licence, I will be very very unhappy. I have 4 full years experience on a moped, 4 years no claims bonus, and have proven my ability to use the road by passing my car test with flying colours. As we all know, using a moped is an absolute sinch compared to using a car, so naturally it made sense (to me anyways!) that those with a car licence should be able to use one freely.

When applying for my full licence (just arrived in the post today ) I ticked the moped box, but as I suspected, the girl in the office scribbled the moped box out and ticked the W (Tractor) licence box instead. I said nothing to her at the time thinking she was writing some note or something haha! Anyways, I now somehow have a full tractor licence. I haven’t the slightest clue how to drive one!!! Hows that possible?!

Now, if I have to go off and do a test on a puny moped, how unfair is THAT?! Those of you lucky people who could afford to practice and pass their car test before October 2006 can now go down to the local motor tax office, tick the box and drive a moped whenever, while I won’t be able to? Out of a survey of 100 people with pre-October 2006 licences, how many of them could answer the following:
Without looking, where on a typical moped are: the Radiator, the Battery, the Rollers, the Brake Fluid wells etc? Which side of the moped do you stand on to kickstart, or set it on centrestand etc.


Can anyone out there please put me out of my misery: tell me that if I go down the tax office Tuesday morning, I'll be able to get them to put an M on my licence?!?! ... please?!



Noccer

tk123

noccer wrote: »

Now, if I have to go off and do a test on a puny moped, how unfair is THAT?! Those of you lucky people who could afford to practice and pass their car test before October 2006
Noccer

Dude this is the bike forum - most of us have done BIKE tests to drive a bike?!?! :rolleyes::D
Anyhoos to put you out of your misery - you need to do a bike test to prove you know how to drive a bike safely without killing yourself and causing a danger to other drivers - eg road positions, mirrors, signals, life savers etc etc etc etc
The goverment have copped on that there's too many tools flying around on bikes who don't have a clue how to drive one safely so they've started to do something about it. You might think that the moped is a 'cinch' or that you know it all but I dont think anybody here whos done lessons and training could say that they didnt pick anything up after it so it's money well spent.

EDIT - also thanks for posting this because I was wondering why I had a W license when I passed my B test last year - i thought somebody made a mistake since I already had the As.
And hello to my old friends on the bike forum - i'm coming out of hiding after becoming a fair weather biker!

noccer

thanks for your input tk123 , i take your point about it being a bike test etc etc.
i guess i really just want a good whinge because its one rule for some and a different one for others simply based on when the car licence was issued I'd be much happier if they did away with the automatic M licence for everyone from now on, regardless of when you got the licence. And its really a pain in the bum havin to wait for another driving test- i cant take passengers and have to wear that gorgeous obligatory lanyard. i'm thinking of emigrating next year, but i'll be long gone by the time i actually get called up for it from the reports i hear haha!

Persius

When the 33Bhp restriction came in for bike licences in 1999 (I think), it only applied to people who applied for their first provisional licence after the deadline. So if you did your test in, say, 2001 but had a provisional since 1998, you'd be exempt from the restriction.

So, it might be the same this time round. Would be worth at least making further enquiries. Though to be honest, I wouldn't fancy your chances.

Del2005

I recently renew my car licence and they have taken the M off my licence, doesn't bother me as I never drove a moped and have applied for the A test. I could go down and get the M put back on, but couldn't be arsed.

A provisional licence is not a licence to drive, hence they've changed the name to learner permit. AFAIK the granting of an M licence on a B licence was only for a FULL B licence, so I think you have been driving illeagally all the time.

XJR

Does anyone know why people think that having a car licence allows them to drive a bike?

its a mystery to me.

Oryx

I asked about this about a year ago, at the Motor Tax Office, who issue the licences.(or at least take the applications) Their take on it was that the theory test had changed format, and because of that, they couldnt give an automatic M licence to B licence holders. The licences seem to require different theory tests, Im not sure.

So at the moment its a two tier system depending on when you did your theory test, apparently. About clear as mud, really.

Agree that driving a car doesnt in any way prepare you for getting on two wheels, no matter how small the bike.

Del2005

XJR wrote: »

Does anyone know why people think that having a car licence allows them to drive a bike?

its a mystery to me.

It doesn't, it allows you to drive a moped which is what gets added to your car licence by the goverment when you pass the test.

Since the majority of bikers in this country are on provisional licence then at least having passed a car test you have proven you are capable of driving safely.

Pesonally I thing everyone should have to undergo formal training before they go onto the road and car drivers should be forced to do some training on motorcycles to show them how vunerable they are.

murphaph

noccer wrote: »

i'm thinking of emigrating next year, but i'll be long gone by the time i actually get called up for it from the reports i hear haha!

Sure the M entitlement wouldn't be much use to you for very long anyway so as it's not a harmonised category and hence has no standing outside the RoI. You couldn't even legally drive a moped over the border to Newry on it-you'd need an A/A1 to do that! An A licence is much more useful.

smoc

XJR wrote: »

Does anyone know why people think that having a car licence allows them to drive a bike?

its a mystery to me.

because it used to be that way. simple as.

As for myself, I had to do an A1 test, then an A and then a B to get both my car and bike but now I still have to wait another 18 months before I can drive a bigger bike than my last 33bhp that i've had for the last 2 years and its killing me. I hate cars and only use it for work. Cant wait to get a Honda VFR

noccer

KtK wrote: »

I asked about this about a year ago, at the Motor Tax Office, who issue the licences.(or at least take the applications) Their take on it was that the theory test had changed format, and because of that, they couldnt give an automatic M licence to B licence holders. The licences seem to require different theory tests, Im not sure.

well thats quite interesting actually, i did the motorbike theory test when i got my 1st provisional M & B licence, perhaps this could be my saving grace!

murphaph wrote: »

Sure the M entitlement wouldn't be much use to you for very long anyway so as it's not a harmonised category and hence has no standing outside the RoI. You couldn't even legally drive a moped over the border to Newry on it-you'd need an A/A1 to do that! An A licence is much more useful.

haha thats true actually, i'd say the poor moped would burn out long before the border though so ive nothing to worry about in that respect!

XJR wrote: »

Does anyone know why people think that having a car licence allows them to drive a bike?

its a mystery to me.

As Del2005 said, some people (whom may never have even sat any theory test) are actually entitled to a full M licence. its backwards yes, but i still want a piece of that action all the same.

Del2005 wrote: »

Pesonally I thing everyone should have to undergo formal training before they go onto the road and car drivers should be forced to do some training on motorcycles to show them how vunerable they are.

good suggestion, i do agree and see the logic in it.

noccer

just a follow up:

yes indeed, i cannot get an M licence even though i have 4 years experience in the bag and a full B licence. but those of you who got the B licence before the deadline are able to. VERY UNFAIR. it should be all or none, i dont care either way once we all have the same rules applied to us. differential treatment is an afwul thing

But today, just to kick me while i'm down, i have just learned from my insurance company that i have lost my 4 years no claims bonus because i have not been insured during the last two years. I am so FRUSTRATED!!!! GRRR :mad::mad: I am 23, have 4 clean years experience on it and they want €730 for 3rd party insurance on a moped worth less than €300. shower of robbing B@$t@8Ds!

2002 Yamaha Aerox Moped for sale: will sell for pack of peanuts o.n.o. :rolleyes:

Oryx

Hi noccer. First, what insurance company? Second, why dont you just get the A licence? At least then you can go up in cc as and when you might want to?

noccer

KtK wrote: »

Hi noccer. First, what insurance company? Second, why dont you just get the A licence? At least then you can go up in cc as and when you might want to?

hi, i tried Aon bikecare, the crowd i was with last time out. the reason im not going for A licence is firstly because i am a very unemployed student and am not yet able to afford a new bike. plus theres a good chance i may not be around ireland come next year. You see, I have the moped sitting out in the shed doing nothing and the original plan was to get on it once college ends in may because i thought i wouldnt cost that much to get restarted for a year. how wrong i was

colm_c

Try Quinn Direct for insurance, usually much cheaper than AON.

murphaph

Strange....I lost my licence recently and the duplicate arrived out today with M and W on it, even though they weren't on the one I lost. I know I'd have hd W under the B licence and M under the A licence anyway but they weren't printed on the last one and they are both DEFINITELY coming from the B licence as the dates for M, W and B are all the same while my A licence came later.

At the end of the day noccer, laws can't be made to be retrospective so if someone has M entitlement due to the B test from way back, it can't be taken off them but we all accept nowadays that a B test shouldn't qualify one to ride any PTW.

SeanW

Strange, when I got my new Driving License, (Category in February, the explanitory codes on that white piece of paper show 103 = No entitlement to Category M and 104 = No entitlement to Category W. My pinky carries neither code so I thought you are licensed to drive M with B unless your license carries the 103 code.

But the rules have been changed? Confusing.

In my case, I had been on a 2nd provisional until end January and had done my Driver Theory Test in ~2002-2003, (covered me for provisional A and and contained questions about everything from car operation to offal loads on tractors etc.