Thatcher taken to hospital...

bobbysands81

All over the news, just for tests apparently.
Not many people go for tests at 11pm at night though.

Elvis Costello comes to mind.

Tramp The Dirt Down

I saw a newspaper picture from the political
campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously
in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young child's
face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
coming down on that child's lips
Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the Lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When England was the whore of the world
Margeret [sic] was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
the black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
haunted by every tiny detail
'Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
all she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends
the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just
squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and
dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between
justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful
discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up
for punishment
And then expect you to say "Thank you"
straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you've only got the symptoms, you
haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head's like a tin-can
filled up with dreams then poured down
the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being
blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the Lord
your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms
and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life
could be so cheap
'Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the
dirt down

Sherifu

She's 82, older than I thought. The reports say tests alright.

GBX

Tests at 11pm on a Friday? :rolleyes:

bobbysands81

George Galloway doesn't like her!

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=6ltsh93&s=1

speedboatchase

Is that the guy that dresses up like a cat?

pfkf1

Certainly seems odd that an 82 year old woman goes to hospital at 11pm on a friday night for tests, methinks it could be her last visit to hospital.

Peyton Manning

speedboatchase

I listened to the clip, and holy crap - how crazy is George? Whatever your thoughts on Thatcher (im not a big fan myself),for someone in the public eye, with a position of power as he does, to hope that 82 year old woman on her deathbed - "burns in hell" is reprehensible. I'd expect that kind of rhetoric from Abu Hamza.

Also, just to remind us all of how much this guy loves destroying his reputation

pfkf1

Indeed I would be no fan of the woman, nor her politics, in fact I think she is a down right disgrace, especially towards the Irish question, however, it appears that she would be close to being on her deathbed and I would not wish her ill, I would wish her all the best and to do otherwise is simply wrong.

tallaght01

you can be admitted to hospital for tests at 11pm on a friday.

Say she felt a bit dizzy, for eg.....they might keep her in overnight to test her heart, do some bloods etc.

She may have had chest pain, in which case they'll do bloods/ecg. These are all "tests" that result in an overnight admission.

It's common with grannies from all backgrounds.

walrusgumble

pfkf1 wrote: »

Indeed I would be no fan of the woman, nor her politics, in fact I think she is a down right disgrace, especially towards the Irish question, however, it appears that she would be close to being on her deathbed and I would not wish her ill, I would wish her all the best and to do otherwise is simply wrong.

very christian of you.

but i doubt there will be many people of Yorkshire, Manchester, Liverpool & others parts of the north of england, wales and the north of ireland who will be sorry to see that bat gone. sure i am sure, if the auld scrap saturday clips are correct, our very own CJH will be pleased to see her.

Fratton Fred

I was never a fan of Thatcher, but without a doubt, the British economy would be worse off if she did not tackle the unions head on.

Was she not the person who instigated the Anglo Irish Agreement? ok it was flawed and pretty much everyone hated it, but you could argue that without it the GFA would not have happened.

SInce being stabbed in the back by her own cowardly party, she did become a bit of a headcase and her backing of Pinochet was deplorable. Still, I'm sure she will be around for a bit longer as I doubt if Heaven or Hell are really looking forward to her arrival:rolleyes:

Mr.Micro

Her authoritarian attitude "the lady is not for turning", "Iron Maggie" did not make her democratic friendly. She became so dogmatic and dictator like that she had to go. She broke the Unions of course in the UK, she had her little war as well in the Falklands. Her poll tax too was a massive hit, where every member over 18, of a household had to pay a tax, like rates. She was so out of touch with reality and increased the class divide IMO. I am not a fan.

Fratton Fred

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Her authoritarian attitude "the lady is not for turning", "Iron Maggie" did not make her democratic friendly. She became so dogmatic and dictator like that she had to go. She broke the Unions of course in the UK, she had her little war as well in the Falklands. Her poll tax too was a massive hit, where every member over 18, of a household had to pay a tax, like rates. She was so out of touch with reality and increased the class divide IMO. I am not a fan.

The poll tax was probably the final straw for the Brits. The old system was unfair but it was replaced with a sytem that was even worse. By then the Tories had become corrupt and drunk on power, they thought that by getting rid of Thatcher it would save their arses but the Labour landside was so huge at the next election shows just how much they were hated.

She probably did increase the class divide, but it also dragged the working class out of the union mentality and created an environment where things like profit sharing and share options became possible. Suddenly devout trade unionist were share holders and keen on their company making a profit. It changed UK labour relations for ever. it also attracted companies like Toyota, Hoinda and Nissan into the UK who, to an extent, helped fill the gap left by the coal mines.

andrewh5

She is out unfortunately. There will be many, many people dancing a jig on her grave when she pops off.

Shutuplaura

As Fred points out she may have helped modernise the economy for sure but to do so in such a pointlessly devisive way to me points to a lack of leadership and vision. She was also very fortunate - The falklands war and north sea oil revenue helped he a lot.

bartholomewbinn

andrewh5 wrote: »

She is out unfortunately. There will be many, many people dancing a jig on her grave when she pops off.

I for one will be delighted when this excuse for a human being finally pops her clogs.

walrusgumble

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Her authoritarian attitude "the lady is not for turning", "Iron Maggie" did not make her democratic friendly. She became so dogmatic and dictator like that she had to go. She broke the Unions of course in the UK, she had her little war as well in the Falklands. Her poll tax too was a massive hit, where every member over 18, of a household had to pay a tax, like rates. She was so out of touch with reality and increased the class divide IMO. I am not a fan.

a well we had similar authoritarian characters like de valera and CJH.

Benedict XVI

bobbysands81 wrote: »

All over the news, just for tests apparently.
Not many people go for tests at 11pm at night though.

Elvis Costello comes to mind.

Tramp The Dirt Down

I saw a newspaper picture from the political
campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously
in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young child's
face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
coming down on that child's lips
Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the Lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When England was the whore of the world
Margeret [sic] was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
the black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
haunted by every tiny detail
'Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
all she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends
the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just
squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and
dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between
justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful
discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up
for punishment
And then expect you to say "Thank you"
straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you've only got the symptoms, you
haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head's like a tin-can
filled up with dreams then poured down
the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being
blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the Lord
your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms
and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life
could be so cheap
'Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the
dirt down

Used to like that song when I was an impressionable 16 year old.
Now I think it's a pile of leftie poo.

She did a great service to the UK, pity we could not have a leader like her.

Fratton Fred

bartholomewbinn wrote: »

I for one will be delighted when this excuse for a human being finally pops her clogs.

Why?

I know why I disliked her, but why is she so hated in Ireland?

,8,1

pfkf1 wrote: »

Indeed I would be no fan of the woman, nor her politics, in fact I think she is a down right disgrace, especially towards the Irish question

Why? She put our Marxist terrorists - the IRA - in their place and in doing so did us a massive favour.

If her dialogue with Ireland centred around building sound economic ties rather than bloodthirty leftist "revolutionaries", I'm sure she would have been much more supportive towards us.

I know why I disliked her, but why is she so hated in Ireland?

Misguided, malinformed people. Also don't take the loud rantings of the left as majority opinion.

irish_bob

history i predict will rank her as 2nd behind churchill in terms of great prime ministers of the uk since ww2

you can acknowledge someone as having been a great leader while not liking them

remember regan was twice as popular in the usa as clinton ever was even though he was almost as hated as bush outside the usa

i see regan and thatcher as having been great leaders

politicians are rarely good people you know

conor2007

similarily as the unionists did recently in the north

''she deserves it''

Fratton Fred

irish_bob wrote: »

history i predict will rank her as 2nd behind churchill in terms of great prime ministers of the uk since ww2

Which is probably her biggest crime :rolleyes:

Mr.Micro

The fact that she was the first woman Prime minister too had bearing on her rating. She had to be tough to make it, and effectively the Prime ministers before her appear tame and ineffective. Her right wing credentials speak for her as do her draconian reforms. She was pro big business and fed the greed gene. Property booms started, privatization of telecoms, gas, water, etc all helped her and the UK. I do not think she was a great leader but better than those before her and since.

gordon_gekko

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The fact that she was the first woman Prime minister too had bearing on her rating. She had to be tough to make it, and effectively the Prime ministers before her appear tame and ineffective. Her right wing credentials speak for her as do her draconian reforms. She was pro big business and fed the greed gene. Property booms started, privatization of telecoms, gas, water, etc all helped her and the UK. I do not think she was a great leader but better than those before her and since.

not everyone sees privitisation as a bad thing

why is it that those who work in state companies are never seen as being capable of greed

bill_ashmount

,8,1 wrote: »

Why? She put our Marxist terrorists - the IRA - in their place and in doing so did us a massive favour.

If her dialogue with Ireland centred around building sound economic ties rather than bloodthirty leftist "revolutionaries", I'm sure she would have been much more supportive towards us.



Misguided, malinformed people. Also don't take the loud rantings of the left as majority opinion.

I believe a few of the people she took on got elected to her own parliament, hardly makes them the minority you are making out at the time.

gurramok

gordon_gekko wrote: »

not everyone sees privitisation as a bad thing

why is it that those who work in state companies are never seen as being capable of greed

Talking about Thatcher here and her appalling treatment of the miners with extreme privatisation in '84

You just don't throw tens of thousands of miners in concentrated areas onto the dole straightaway without govt support for alternative employment.

It was her disregard for the poorest in society that was sickening with the greed is good mentality.
It was only when she went to tour Toxteth after the riot that it hit home to her temporarily unfortunately that govt intervention is needed to help communities in despair.(she did u-turn again on miners in '84)

Before that riot she didn't give a toss about the likes of Liverpool and let it rot.

Dudess

Agreed. I hate anti-Britishness, I think George Galloway is a bullying yob and the way he addressed that man who phoned in was absolutely disgraceful (the man was only saying he didn't think it was appropriate for Galloway to say she should burn in hell, he wasn't "defending" her as Galloway insisted) but I agree with everything Galloway said about that c*nt.

Benedict XVI wrote: »

She did a great service to the UK, pity we could not have a leader like her.

Troll.

,8,1 wrote: »

Why? She put our Marxist terrorists - the IRA - in their place and in doing so did us a massive favour.

Massive favour? Explain. If anything, the hunger strikes and Thatcher's disgusting attitude towards catholics in the north were one big recruiting drive for the provos. Do you not remember how much the republican campaign of violence heightened during Thatcher's time in office? Put them in their place? What the fukk? That bitch spurred them on!
Re the IRA: So if you were poor and you grew up in the Ardoyne or Falls Road or Bogside and your sister got regularly groped by British soldiers, you regularly got a thumping by RUC officers, you knew someone who got a round of plastic bullets for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, your chances of decent housing and a job were reduced because of your religion... oh, and you faced discrimination every day of the week, and silent protests didn't work - in fact 13 unarmed fellow catholics one day are murdered by British soldiers for protesting - are you saying you still wouldn't want an organisation to stand up to those bastards?
Fact is, the IRA were murdering bastards, but the British and unionist powers-that-be created them. Anyone who just dismisses them as "baddies" without taking the bigger picture into consideration is either: very lazy, very dumb, very ignorant or simply attending the Independent Newspapers school of anti-republicanism which is quite trendy at the moment.

Misguided, malinformed people.

You're Irish aren't you? So you'd also include yourself in that group of "misguided, malinformed people" would you?
Or are you just trolling?

Oh yeah, and all of the above aside, she supported Pinochet, a dictator under whose regime some of the most depraved atrocities imaginable occurred. Do a google.

Moriarty

Dudess: Read the charter before you post here again. If you have a problem with a post, report it.

Fratton Fred

Dudess wrote: »

Massive favour? Explain. If anything, the hunger strikes and Thatcher's disgusting attitude towards catholics in the north were one big recruiting drive for the provos. Do you not remember how much the republican campaign of violence heightened during Thatcher's time in office? Put them in their place? What the fukk? That bitch spurred them on!
Re the IRA: So if you were poor and you grew up in the Ardoyne or Falls Road or Bogside and your sister got regularly groped by British soldiers, you regularly got a thumping by RUC officers, you knew someone who got a round of plastic bullets for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, your chances of decent housing and a job were reduced because of your religion... oh, and you faced discrimination every day of the week, and silent protests didn't work - in fact 13 unarmed fellow catholics one day are murdered by British soldiers for protesting - are you saying you still wouldn't want an organisation to stand up to those bastards?
Fact is, the IRA were murdering bastards, but the British and unionist powers-that-be created them. Anyone who just dismisses them as "baddies" without taking the bigger picture into consideration is either: very lazy, very dumb, very ignorant or simply attending the Independent Newspapers school of anti-republicanism which is quite trendy at the moment.
.

I thought Bloody Sunday was before thatcher's time?

Did she have that bad an attitude towards ireland, or was it that she was in power at the height of the troubles? IIRC, she was as hard on loyalists as she was republicans, but that would no doubt be forgotten this side of the irish sea.

Take a look at ESB, the report last year said that inefficiencies and overpayment to staff is ccosting the country €100m per year. Do you think that would happen in the UK? The reason I don't is that Thatcher forced a different type of labour relations on the workforce. Instead of screwing a company to get more money, unions were forced to look for cost savings, productivity increases and share schemes. Suddenly the unions became interested in how thier company was performing rather than trying to strangle it to death. This is why I agree with benedict, when I look at the current crop of irish political leaders, outside of Sinn Fein I can't see anyone with more balls than Thatcher, literally!! someone of her courage is badly needed at the moment as we enter an uncertain economic period. it's easy managing a country when all is goig well, but the next 12 months ill be a test and I can't see anyone up to the job.

TOMASJ

Fratton Fred wrote: »

IIRC, she was as hard on loyalists as she was republicans, but that would no doubt be forgotten this side of the irish sea.

That is strictly not true the UDA, which 'is' the biggest loyalists origination in the North and we still have ( no decommissioning no ceasefire and are continuing to terrorise nationalist) they were for all of Thatchers term, allowed to remain a 'LEGAL' origination, and allowed to carry out at will with the assistance of Her majesties finest, murders, North and South of Ireland

Dudess

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought Bloody Sunday was before thatcher's time?

I was talking about the reason why the IRA came into being, it was separate from my comments on Thatcher.
It's very convenient for Irish people to be all anti republican now.

Erin Go Brath

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did she have that bad an attitude towards ireland,

She let 10 of Irelands sons starve to death in 1981, without giving into a few of their meagre POW status requests. Hence shes not very popular in this country, and particularly despised by Republicans. Theres a bunch of "I still hate Thatcher" as gaeilge t-shirts floating around. Shes not very popular with a lot of the working class in the UK aswell i believe.

As a pre-emptive strike against the usual W.Brits who'll probably say, well they got what they deserved etc. I should point out while on hunger strike, Bobby Sands got elected in Fermanagh/South Tyrone with over 30,000 votes. So the public were very much in solidarity with himself and the hunger strikers.

Fratton Fred

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

She let 10 of Irelands sons starve to death in 1981, without giving into a few of their meagre POW status requests. Hence shes not very popular in this country, and particularly despised by Republicans. Theres a bunch of "I still hate Thatcher" as gaeilge t-shirts floating around. Shes not very popular with a lot of the working class in the UK aswell i believe.

As a pre-emptive strike against the usual W.Brits who'll probably say, well they got what they deserved etc. I should point out while on hunger strike, Bobby Sands got elected in Fermanagh/South Tyrone with over 30,000 votes. So the public were very much in solidarity with himself and the hunger strikers.

she is still very unpopular with a lot of the working class in Britain, that is correct, for all the reasons Gurramok listed above. The same reason's she is still on my list od least liked people. A lot of the people she is unpopular with are now driving BMW's though, thanks to their shares paying rich dividends.

With regards Ireland, I don't think Thatcher reacted differently to the way any other PM would have reacted. A government should not be held to ransom by people threatening suicide, but we will never agree to that one.

is_that_so

Much of Thatchers' legacy as Fred has commented is what she did in Britain and the very unpleasant 80s there. But she was in the right place to help kick-start the initial discussions of what led to the Belfast Agreement and she'll get credit in history books for that.

andrewh5

Fratton Fred wrote: »

she is still very unpopular with a lot of the working class in Britain, that is correct, for all the reasons Gurramok listed above. The same reason's she is still on my list od least liked people. A lot of the people she is unpopular with are now driving BMW's though, thanks to their shares paying rich dividends.

With regards Ireland, I don't think Thatcher reacted differently to the way any other PM would have reacted. A government should not be held to ransom by people threatening suicide, but we will never agree to that one.

You are aware I take it that the Brit govt actually gave them 99% of their demands within weeks of the hunger strikes ending? She could have negotiated with them and saved 10 lives but chose instead to sit back. My guess is that she wouldn't have a strong enough level of courage to starve herself to death over her beliefs.

andrewh5

is_that_so wrote: »

Much of Thatchers' legacy as Fred has commented is what she did in Britain and the very unpleasant 80s there. But she was in the right place to help kick-start the initial discussions of what led to the Belfast Agreement and she'll get credit in history books for that.

Complete rubbish! It was John Major who started it and it was completed by Tony Blair with huge help from Mo Mowlam. If it had been down to Thatcher there would still be conflict now.

Fratton Fred

andrewh5 wrote: »

You are aware I take it that the Brit govt actually gave them 99% of their demands within weeks of the hunger strikes ending? She could have negotiated with them and saved 10 lives but chose instead to sit back. My guess is that she wouldn't have a strong enough level of courage to starve herself to death over her beliefs.

Yes, I am aware of that.

They chose to kill themselves.

Fratton Fred

andrewh5 wrote: »

Complete rubbish! It was John Major who started it and it was completed by Tony Blair with huge help from Mo Mowlam. If it had been down to Thatcher there would still be conflict now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Agreement

Mr.Micro

Like her or loathe her Thatcher made a big difference during her tenure, some of it good and some bad. Her privatization policies were controversial at the time and Ireland is perhaps going down the same route. Water, gas, telecoms, as I stated in an earlier post were sold off( you can only sell the family silver once). The prices of these utilities escalated rapidly and are still high. At the time it was mooted that prices would be lower and more competitive. For big business yes, but not the ordinary consumer. Most of the utilities are now owned by multi national companies. It was all about money IMO, and Mrs.Thatcher was not interested in the fabric of community welfare of the population at large. Her whole style was almost dictatorial, harking back to the class ruling elite era.

bartholomewbinn

Well, she definitely holds one rather dubious record. She is the only British prime minister to have a son who is a major international criminal.

Mr.Micro

bartholomewbinn wrote: »

Well, she definitely holds one rather dubious record. She is the only British prime minister to have a son who is a major international criminal.

She appeared to help him after his African exploits, to get him out of the mess leaving his partners to face the music. Even the US allowed him back in after this. She supported Pinochet, so anything her own son may have done in his dealings would be seen as mild IMO.

Tazz T

bartholomewbinn wrote: »

Well, she definitely holds one rather dubious record. She is the only British prime minister to have a son who is a major international criminal.

...or to let an one of her own duly elected MPs die on hunger strike.

Fratton Fred

Tazz T wrote: »

...or to let an one of her own duly elected MPs die on hunger strike.

I somehow don't think she would call Bobby Sands "One of her own".

What else should she have done, pander to a member of a terrorist organisation or keep the respect of the majority of British voters?

Dudess

Yeah, I agree with you on that, Fred. But it's the Falklands (one of her key aims was to save its people from a brutal South American dictator... hmmm...), the Belgrano incident, the miners, the greed, the poll tax, "Out! Out! Out!", Pinochet, that make me hate that woman. I agree, good leaders can't always do the "nice" thing, but she seemed to revel in being a c*nt.

My father just wants to be English and live in some dreary suburban hell-hole like Luton or somewhere, read his Daily Express/Mail and spend his days driving on motorways and stopping off at Little Chefs. If it wasn't for his mother he would definitely have moved there when he was young and I'd be an English girl now! He is so pro free market and anti republican, he seems like your typical Thatcherite. Yet you cannot mention that woman's name in his company for fear he'll boil over with rage. I remember when I was little in the 80s he'd shout abuse at the TV every time she was on (which was a lot). I think the reason why was simply because of her harshness and lack of compassion. Because whatever tough stance my dad might take politically and economically, he has no time for bullies.

gurramok

That's right Dudess, that poll tax summed up her feelings towards the English working class.

'Can't pay, won't pay' were familiar signs above a few motorways when i was over there at the time of the poll tax revolt and they were genuine signs that spoke volumes.

Demanding person 1 on £1m a yr salary, person 2 on £10,000/yr and person 3 being unemployed to pay the same poll tax of £400/yr no matter what their incomes were, was a bloody disgraceful act and to be condemned.

Fratton Fred

gurramok wrote: »

That's right Dudess, that poll tax summed up her feelings towards the English working class.

'Can't pay, won't pay' were familiar signs above a few motorways when i was over there at the time of the poll tax revolt and they were genuine signs that spoke volumes.

Demanding person 1 on £1m a yr salary, person 2 on £10,000/yr and person 3 being unemployed to pay the same poll tax of £400/yr no matter what their incomes were, was a bloody disgraceful act and to be condemned.

My old home town of Maidenhead was as true blue as you could get. At the time, Dr Alan Glynn was one of the longest serving MPs at westminster, but there was a relatively big demonstration marching from the town to London in protest. In the main it was organised by tory housewives and working class people who were life long conservative voters. Reaction like that was one of the main reasons it was changed. It was also the beginning of the end of the conservative government.

Dudess

Oh yeah, Maidenhead. That's where my parents' mates used to live in the early 80s. I remember going over there. My dad's friend (an Irishman but very much fancied himself as a Brit) was such a Thatcherite - loved the woman. He was the stereotypical yuppie - flash to the point of ridiculousness, and such a fan of those executive toys and gadgets. Then he did the really stereotypical yuppie thing - developed a serious drink problem, marriage collapsed, lost all his money. What a cliché.

But yeah, I remember the Poll Tax riots in 1990. I was only 11 or 12 and didn't understand what Poll Tax was, but I will never forget the utter rage of those people. It was a really primal anger - something the likes of which I'd never seen before that.

El Stuntman

bartholomewbinn wrote: »

Well, she definitely holds one rather dubious record. She is the only British prime minister to have a son who is a major international criminal.

pah, that's nothing - we have two Prime Ministers who....fill in the blanks yourself