Ballymun Regeneration to cost double

merrionsq

What next! Supposed to cost €900 million now. Makes you wonder what the point of it all is now.

If Ballymun's problems persist after this redevelopment it will have been a shocking waste of money.

arybvtcw0eolkf

merrionsq wrote: »

If Ballymun's problems persist after this redevelopment it will have been a shocking waste of money.

Not a lot has changed in Ballymun, and in fact in some ways things have got worse than ever. Only positive is they now have that civic centre and new clinic.

Otherwise what have they got?... Less green space, higher density housing - alot of which has went to our new immigrant population and not to the people of Ballymun.

The older population of Ballymun who'd hoped to get housed out of the flats and their parents 'floor' are finding it almost impossible to do that now without moving into rented landlord accommodation outside of Ballymun.

Oh almost forgot - they have the two hotels out there and a QBC :rolleyes:

Gaspode

I always go the impression that the idea behind the regeneration was to force out most of the older residents, and create a 'new' village. I pass through it only occassionally and tbh it looks more soulless now than it ever did.
I cant understand why they pulled down some of the towers and then built another, if anything, just as ugly tower.

markpb

It certainly doesn't seem to be going well so far. The new buildings are drab apartment blocks that look worn already. The tower is horrible from the south side. Reports from people who've moved into the area are pretty bad - the inside of the blocks around Balbutcher Lane are almost completely destroyed, broken windows, boarded up doors, break-glass units and fire alarm systems damaged, grafitti inside and outside, etc. Basically it looks like nothing much has changed. BRCL claim that unemployment has falled 30% or something like that but thats probably more to do with the economy than anything they've achieved.

arybvtcw0eolkf

deswalsh wrote: »

I always go the impression that the idea behind the regeneration was to force out most of the older residents, and create a 'new' village.

FORCE US OUT?.

To where?.

John Mason

I have to say, if anything Ballymun looks a hell of a lot worse then before they started this regeneration business. The new apartment block are hidious, especially those near Days Hotel

Gaspode

Mairt wrote: »

FORCE US OUT?.

To where?.

Dunno!:)
Its just a personal impression I got from looking at the plans and listening to people talk about it (no hard evidence was harmed or even used in the generation of this impression!!)

Either way, they havent made the place very attractive to people who want to stay in the area. I wonder if the new flats, sorry Apartments, are a patch on the original flats on the inside. They certainly dont look any better from the outside.

Jonny Arson

passed through Ballymun the other day for the first time in about 5 or 6 years expecting to see something different, impressive and eyecatching. instead like you guys i thought the place still looked like a drab depressing kip, almost as bad as it was before. yet another example of cheap dire architectural design and clueless urban planning that is going to be scarring the suburbs of this city for decades to come. what a waste of money

Degsy

markpb wrote: »

It certainly doesn't seem to be going well so far. The new buildings are drab apartment blocks that look worn already. The tower is horrible from the south side. Reports from people who've moved into the area are pretty bad - the inside of the blocks around Balbutcher Lane are almost completely destroyed, broken windows, boarded up doors, break-glass units and fire alarm systems damaged, grafitti inside and outside, etc. Basically it looks like nothing much has changed. BRCL claim that unemployment has falled 30% or something like that but thats probably more to do with the economy than anything they've achieved.

Absolute rubbish.The new apartments are built to the highest possible specifications,they're all owner-occupied,huge amount of spae inside and head and shoulders above the garbage thats being unloaded onto people in so-called "better" areas,see the thread on Crosbie's Yard in this forum.Any "destroyed apartment blocks" you've seen were NOT on Balbutcher lane.

markpb

Degsy wrote: »

Absolute rubbish.The new apartments are built to the highest possible specifications,they're all owner-occupied,huge amount of space inside and head and shoulders above the garbage thats being unloaded onto people in so-called "better" areas,see the thread on Crosbie's Yard in this forum.Any "destroyed apartment blocks" you've seen were NOT on Balbutcher lane.

Would those highest possible specifications include putting fully opening windows on the 4th floor stairwell so they had to be boarded up because they're unsafe? Would they include the walls that had to be repainted or replaced because they're suffering from milldue and damp? I'm well aware that most apartment blocks built in the last eight years have been dross but Ballymun is no exception from what I've heard from people _living there_.

Don't get me wrong, I live right beside Ballymun and I've no problem with it but seeing the huge amount of money invested by both the government and the people who bought into it wasted on and comparing that with the end product, something went badly wrong. I know some things were done well and sometimes change is more important than the outcome but I'm not sure that's enough here.

Degsy

markpb wrote: »

Would those highest possible specifications include putting fully opening windows on the 4th floor stairwell so they had to be boarded up because they're unsafe? Would they include the walls that had to be repainted or replaced because they're suffering from milldue and damp? I'm well aware that most apartment blocks built in the last eight years have been dross but Ballymun is no exception from what I've heard from people _living there

Aint no fourth floors in the apartment blocks on balbutcher lane.

clawsthefirst

How can anyone in their right mind say that Ballymun looks worse now than it did before they began the regeneration? I bought one of the new apartments there and I really don't see my money as being "wasted". I've a huge, high ceiling apartment looking out towards the Dublin mountains, there's no place in Dublin I could get the same place for the amount I payed. I also get a tax relief for being an owner occupier which amounts to a tidy sum each each month. None of the alleged problems listed here have affected me. The only problems I've so far encountered are with litter, there just aren't enough bins in the place. As for anyone who bought a place and is now encountering build problems, as Dublin City Council were the vendor they're the ones with a duty to fix any such problems.

John Mason

clawsthefirst wrote: »

How can anyone in their right mind say that Ballymun looks worse now than it did before they began the regeneration? I bought one of the new apartments there and I really don't see my money as being "wasted". I've a huge, high ceiling apartment looking out towards the Dublin mountains, there's no place in Dublin I could get the same place for the amount I payed. I also get a tax relief for being an owner occupier which amounts to a tidy sum each each month. None of the alleged problems listed here have affected me. The only problems I've so far encountered are with litter, there just aren't enough bins in the place. As for anyone who bought a place and is now encountering build problems, as Dublin City Council were the vendor they're the ones with a duty to fix any such problems.

In fairness they also overlook dublin airport and another tower block, not exactly the best view in dublin. But this isnt about the views, it about the fact the Ballymun still looks like a complete hellhole, even with all the money that put into. When they started the regengration, it seem like a briliant idea and the first houses/apartments they built off santry road look great. The they went and replaced the tower blocks with even ugly apartment blocks. I appears to my that the council just got bored half way through project and said "ah, yeah sure that will do"

Degsy

irishbird wrote: »

I appears to my

You jamaican then?

clawsthefirst

irishbird wrote: »

In fairness they also overlook dublin airport and another tower block, not exactly the best view in dublin. But this isnt about the views, it about the fact the Ballymun still looks like a complete hellhole, even with all the money that put into. When they started the regengration, it seem like a briliant idea and the first houses/apartments they built off santry road look great. The they went and replaced the tower blocks with even ugly apartment blocks. I appears to my that the council just got bored half way through project and said "ah, yeah sure that will do"

A sweeping overstatement I would say. If you refer to Ballymun in it's current state as a hellhole, which in my opinion it's very much far from, how would you refer to somewhere like Moyross for example? I can't see either the airport or tower blocks from where I live either. As for getting bored halfway through, there is a ten year plan that they're working off. None of the towers along the main street will be left. Where the Tesco currently is there'll be a new shopping centre and cinema. And across froom that will be our new Luas stop. Also the style of the new apartments are similar to the style of apartments cropping up in every part of the city.

Degsy

irishbird wrote: »

In fairness they also overlook dublin airport and another tower block, not exactly the best view in dublin.

No,dunsink halting-site is the best view in Dublin:p

BigglesMcGee

think they have done an awful jobe on it.
It doesnt quite look as bad as it used to but its damned close. Id say its improved by 5% maybe.

If i owned property in Ballymun now i would be seriously worried.
The regeneration project was supposed to make it a desirable place to live.
Well its still the most undesirable place in IReland to live (outside of Limerick).

And now its sucking up even more money.

Degsy

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

If i owned property in Ballymun now i would be seriously worried.
The regeneration project was supposed to make it a desirable place to live.

Like Tyrellstown,Ongar,Adamstown?All these places priced at Dublin rates and yet miiles from teh city centre.Nobody who bought in ballymun payed 400k for an apartment and they're three miles from the city centre,on several good bus routes and by and large improving.The people who bought in the new ghettos and payed the earth for them should be seriously worried.

arybvtcw0eolkf

clawsthefirst wrote: »

How can anyone in their right mind say that Ballymun looks worse now than it did before they began the regeneration? I bought one of the new apartments there and I really don't see my money as being "wasted". I've a huge, high ceiling apartment looking out towards the Dublin mountains, there's no place in Dublin I could get the same place for the amount I payed. I also get a tax relief for being an owner occupier which amounts to a tidy sum each each month. None of the alleged problems listed here have affected me. The only problems I've so far encountered are with litter, there just aren't enough bins in the place. As for anyone who bought a place and is now encountering build problems, as Dublin City Council were the vendor they're the ones with a duty to fix any such problems.

Your opinion is somewhat biased given that your have a potential investment on your hands, which is in your interest to look after.

Fact is, Ballymun regeneration has tried and failed to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Its a kip, simple as. And I think you were crazy to spend money buying privately there.

Degsy I think that other poster is talking about the old redeveloped Balbutcher Lane blocks & getting them mixed up with something else.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Degsy wrote: »

The people who bought in the new ghettos and payed the earth for them should be seriously worried.

People who bought anywhere in the last few year's should be seriously worried.

I've two friends who've recently had their properties valued and both have been valued at 2005 prices - ie they won't break even should they decide to sell right now.

But thats getting away from the discussion.

My family have lived in Ballymun since 1968, and like everyone else at the start of the regeneration project we were excited. But the excitement has turned to disappair for the majority now.

IMO, its been a failure.

mikemac

Degsy wrote: »

Like Tyrellstown,Ongar,Adamstown?All these places priced at Dublin rates and yet miiles from teh city centre.

Priced at Dublin rates because they are in Co.Dublin maybe?

Degsy

micmclo wrote: »

Priced at Dublin rates because they are in Co.Dublin maybe?

Bull.They're bloody miles from anywhere.Straightforward rip-off.

mikemac

Degsy wrote: »

Bull.They're bloody miles from anywhere.Straightforward rip-off.

My post is bull? :mad:
You don't understand why Tyrellstown,Ongar,Adamstown at priced at "Dublin rates" and that's fine. But they are in Dublin!

How can a "Dublin rate" not apply to Dublin?
You brought up a Dublin rate but it only applies to the city? Then post that so

markpb

Degsy wrote: »

Bull.They're bloody miles from anywhere.Straightforward rip-off.

Some of them are close to the Maynooth suburban line which means it takes the same length of time to get from there to the city centre as it does from Ballymun.

Anyway, their location doesn't matter a damn, the only thing that affects price is what the market is willing to pay. It might offend you that people would rather pay extra to live in Tyrrelstown than Ballymun but that's their choice.

merrionsq

Mairt wrote: »

Fact is, Ballymun regeneration has tried and failed to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Its a kip, simple as. And I think you were crazy to spend money buying privately there.

The land Ballymun is built on is not intrinsically evil. Neither is the air. It made sense to knock down the failed suburb and rebuild it. The problem has been the cost of it.

But, the Elephant in the Room (as Gerry Ryan might say) are the people living there who've made it such an interesting area over the decades.

Such areas are not hopeless, if you look what happened to the Barbican Estate in the UK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbican_Estate
But some people would criticise this as gentrification. And the problem just moves somewhere else...

arybvtcw0eolkf

merrionsq wrote: »

The land Ballymun is built on is not intrinsically evil. Neither is the air. It made sense to knock down the failed suburb and rebuild it. The problem has been the cost of it.

.

I know, I've been breathing Ballymun air most of my 42yrs on this earth.

BigglesMcGee

Degsy wrote: »

Like Tyrellstown,Ongar,Adamstown?All these places priced at Dublin rates and yet miiles from teh city centre.Nobody who bought in ballymun payed 400k for an apartment and they're three miles from the city centre,on several good bus routes and by and large improving.The people who bought in the new ghettos and payed the earth for them should be seriously worried.

True, but at least they didnt buy in Ballymun. So they have one good thing going for them.

A Dub in Glasgo

There is no question that some of the buildings that have been designed are an eyesore and are already dating. There have been plenty of cock ups from BRL regarding the rehousing of the tenents from the flats. My brother has a really nice place now but it took 5 years from BRL telling them to get packed to get to the house. Constant delays and then the builder going belly up with the houses half built for about a year! My sister has a nice house but it is in the hellhole that is Balcurris.

Nevyn

Mairt wrote: »

I know, I've been breathing Ballymun air most of my 42yrs on this earth.

That explains a few things.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Thaedydal wrote: »

That explains a few things.

Yeah?..

Pray tell.

gazzer

A friend of mine bought an apartment in Ballymun 2 years ago. A section 23 one. I cant remember the name of the development but it is on the right hand side if you are heading up towards Jamestown Ind Estate. There is a group of shops and one of them is a chemist?

Anyway he HATES it there. Almost since he moved in himself and his neighborus have had nothing put hassle from teenagers and young adults. Doors getting kicked in, post been robbed, cars getting robbed, smashed up.

The Ballymun regeneration was on paper a great idea but you cant just build new apartments and houses, shops and think the problems that have existed there for years will just go away. Among the decent hard working people who live there there is a lot of scumbags and criminals who dont give a fcuk about the people that live there. I dont know how you can change that mindset but it is definately there.

IanCurtis

I live near Ballymun too, and I agree it's not improved very much at all. Like a previous poster said, the mindset of the scumbag element is still there and some of the new houses built for the occupants of the old flats are in a terrible state now.

Mind you, I'd rather be dead than live in Tyrellstown, Ongar, etc.

All the crappiness of a soulless, over-populated kip with a huge commute to boot!!

What a bargain!

Nolanger

merrionsq wrote: »

What next! Makes you wonder what the point of it all is now. it will have been a shocking waste of money.

Every major public project in this City goes over budget.
Even when it finally gets completed it does not solve the initial problem.

Are there less traffic on our roads because of the Luas?
Are there less people in Dublin because of decentralisation?
Are there more tourists now visting O'Connell St to marvel at the Spire?

Dyr

Ten years from now we'll be having another brown paper bag enquiry into what went on with the ballymun regeneration project.

The thing about areas like that is that the people who live there have very little control over their environment as they're subject to the crackpot whims of every social scientist and progressive planner who doesnt have to deal with the results of whatever crackpot planning theories that they decide to play with at the time.


As for the "people", the place was used as dumping ground for nearly every scumbag and ****eheel in this city right through the 80's what do you expect?

gamer

the new apartments are built to VERY high SPECS, ALL are at least 2 bedrooms, WITH VERY HIGH SPEC IN REGARD TO HEAT INSULATION ,sound insulation ,high spec re door locks,fittings,and each flat has 2 highly secure doors,technically speaking they are better than most of the so called ,private apartments ,eg theres space 4 four washing machines or 3 dryers ,in a single persons flat .some hallways are 25ft ,high,everyone has their own front door,obviously they are high density, houses are very close to each other.Green SPACES between old estates are being built on.

markpb

gamer wrote: »

the new apartments are built to VERY high SPECS, ALL are at least 2 bedrooms, WITH VERY HIGH SPEC IN REGARD TO HEAT INSULATION ,sound insulation ,high spec re door locks,fittings,and each flat has 2 highly secure doors,technically speaking they are better than most of the so called ,private apartments ,eg theres space 4 four washing machines or 3 dryers ,in a single persons flat .some hallways are 25ft ,high,everyone has their own front door,obviously they are high density, houses are very close to each other.Green SPACES between old estates are being built on.

The irony is that the same was said about the old apartments when they were built.

Clink

The old apartments WERE built to a very high spec, ask anyone who has lived there.

markpb

Clink wrote: »

The old apartments WERE built to a very high spec, ask anyone who has lived there.

Absolutely, no-one has ever disputed that. Build spec had nothing to do with the problems Ballymun had then. Saying it has good built spec now doesn't make any difference if the cladding is poor (which it appears to be), the maintenance is non-existent and the people living there don't take care of the place.

Dyr

Asbestos is high spec? :eek:

donaghs

It was at the time. From a purely materials point of view its an incredible flame retardent.

jen20619

How can anyone in there right mind say ballymun doesnt look better .Its come on so much and is looking better than ever.I do believe however there is alot of resentment here on this posting due to people of ballymun been housed in nice cosy homes from flats.I think credit should be giving where credit due.Its looking brill.

markpb

I can only assume you don't live near Ballymun? The exterior might have been an improvement when it was built but it' aging badly already. Most of the shop units are lying empty, the shopping centre redevelopment never happened, the insides of several of the blocks are badly damaged, antisocial behaviour is rife and participation at 3rd level education is still far below national levels.

The government thought that putting a pretty fascade on all the problems would make them go away. They didn't bother to address the problems that gave it the reputation it had and funnily enough they haven't gone away.

Dyr

oddly enough thats what happened originally in ballymun, it was only half built as the politicians didnt want to know once the funds and publicity dried up. The regeneration is largely a con though, just public land grabbed at knockdown prices by private developers, they'l be looking up trees in north dublin for brown evelopes again soon.


only they ripped up all the trees :pac:

gamer

i read in a paper ,the corpo is negotiating with the owner of the shopping centre,so most units are empty ,they cant be rented out,at some point it will be renovated,its more a legal delay than a shortgage of money ,problem.EVEN if the corpo gave everyone in dublin a brand new apartment,there would still be problems.a certain percentage of young people are involved in drugs,crime ,anti social behavior ,did anyone really think those problems would disappear over night.BUT for familys who used to live in a 14 storey tower block,its a great improvement to have your own house.THERES still alot of 4 storey flats left ,its not like everyone got a new apartment.

arybvtcw0eolkf

jen20619 wrote: »

How can anyone in there right mind say ballymun doesnt look better .Its come on so much and is looking better than ever.I do believe however there is alot of resentment here on this posting due to people of ballymun been housed in nice cosy homes from flats.I think credit should be giving where credit due.Its looking brill.

Let me see. I'm guessing you got a bus through Ballymun once, in the dark & after a few drinks?.

jdivision

Mairt wrote: »

Let me see, you got a bus through Ballymun once, in the dark & after a few drinks?.

Must be the guy I recently woke up on the Nitelink after driver asked me to. Asked him where he was going? Next stop. Had to wake him up again. Where are you heading? "celbridge"... eh!!:pac:

Most of the new Ballymun will be torn down again in 10 years, one of the builders there is known as the worst in Ireland. Structural cracks already appearing in his work.

As for those who think the new apartments are high spec, eh, no: http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/01/06/story29390.asp
In particular, they state that the estate common areas, the internal common areas, the car parks and gardens have become run-down, dirty, foul-smelling and contaminated by refuse, drug addicts’ paraphernalia and excrement; accessible to trespassers at will; unsupervised by any appropriate security personnel; and devoid of a proper system of fire escapes.

The counterclaim stated that, ‘‘far from being a high-class residential development, the estate has become unsafe and run-down and barely livable for the tenants, with a resulting diminution in the value of the apartments and a reduction in their letting value’’.

It continued: ‘‘The entire estate has become a development in rapid and serious decline towards slum status. There is no proper system of security for the tenants to protect them from trespass and crime.

‘‘The common areas have become unsafe and dilapidated. The underground garage is open for criminal purposes to casual trespassers, involving the burning of stolen vehicles and risk of damage to the tenants’ vehicles.”

Rashers

For anyone that hasn't been to Ballymun and would like to see what some of the new apartments and houses look like.

Click here to have a look.

A picture can tell a story. it can also lie.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Rashers wrote: »

For anyone that hasn't been to Ballymun and would like to see what some of the new apartments and houses look like.

Click LA-LA-LAND to have a look.

A picture can tell a story. it can also lie.

Corrected that for you.

That site is a million miles from the truth of what the regeneration of Ballymun is.

Some people have made very serious error's out there.

Whatever problems Ballymun once had has multiplied many times over, and you can't in all honesty deny that.

Rashers

That was the promise.

The outcome is not quite as promised.... so far.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Rashers wrote: »

That was the promise.

The outcome is not quite as promised.... so far.

The future is bright!.

Rashers

Mairt wrote: »

The future is bright!.

That's just Halloween in Ballymun.