Should manufacturers be liable?

paulksnn

While this issue does concern the back brake calipers on my mazda 6, that the mechanic said was a known issue, I've often wondered......

Should manufacturers be forced to replace parts that are known to be bad.
I'm sure there are plenty of examples out there of cars with particular weaknesses that all mechanics/people in the know, know about.

I know legally that they cover their ass with the 3year manufacturer guarantee, but...............

R.O.R

It all comes down to economics.

How much will it cost to recall all the vehicles? How much will we have to pay out in settlements when something goes wrong?

It's when the latter outweighs the former that a recall notice is issued.

If a problem is bad enough but not financially viable to issue a recall then a campaign notice is sent to dealers to get the work carried out during service.

zilog_jones

They have recalls if there's something particularly dangerous or expensive to fix. Usually regarding airbags, ABS, seat belts etc.

javaboy

R.O.R wrote: »

It all comes down to economics.

How much will it cost to recall all the vehicles? How much will we have to pay out in settlements when something goes wrong?

It's when the latter outweighs the former that a recall notice is issued.

If a problem is bad enough but not financially viable to issue a recall then a campaign notice is sent to dealers to get the work carried out during service.

Ford Pinto FTW!

landcruiserfj62

Car manufacturers have alot to answer for imo. Poor quality parts and materials are literally littered throughout most, if not all modern vehicles. In alot of cases in my experiance, manufacturers will not even give reasons for recalls and campaigns. Its a shame really, cars have become almost disposable!

-Chris-

landcruiserfj62 wrote: »

Car manufacturers have alot to answer for imo. Poor quality parts and materials are literally littered throughout most, if not all modern vehicles. In alot of cases in my experiance, manufacturers will not even give reasons for recalls and campaigns. Its a shame really, cars have become almost disposable!

I have to wholeheartedly disagree, I think car manufacturers are doing an absolutely amazing job on an ongoing basis.

I'm sitting in the showroom at the moment looking at a 5 door hatchback - four wheels and a steering wheel. If you actually delve into what's really there you'll see
-a passenger safety cell
-crumple zones
-suspension arms, shocks and springs
-an engine that will do 150,000 miles with the minimum of fuss
-airbags in the dashboard, in the roof and in the front seats
-there are sensors that detect if someone is sitting in the passenger seat and that sense how close to the steeringwheel the driver is sitting to vary whether the airbags go off and how hard
-abs, esp, traction control
-a courtesy lighting system that intellegently dims and illuminates interior lighting
-seat parts, wheels, indicators, wiring loom etc. etc.
-emissions systems that monitor the gasses produced by the engine and actively alter fuelling
you get my point...

The fact that you can buy one of these marvels of engineering for €25,000 or less is incredible. Think about it, I could put a pile of 15 average spec Dell laptops beside a decently spec'd new car and ask you to choose. You can buy a Bang and Olafsun stereo for the price of TWO of cars.

The fact that these marvels of engineering can now be referred to as disposable shows how blase we've become about them. Back in the '80s the mechanic's handbook said things like "known problem is gearlever keeps falling off - solution, glue on gear lever".

Sometimes we used to sit into our car (with their pre-historic mechanical ignition systems) and bless ourselves before attempting to start our cars on a wet day, hoping that the contacts in the distributor cap didn't need to be cleaned/dried.

We've never had it so good and we've never complained so much. The whole point of warranty is that you can't build something as complex as a modern motor car and not expect to get a couple of faults. It's a support system for the (nearly) inevitable.

There's an international system for every manufacturer that details problems that have occured and how to fix them - nearly everything is a "known problem" when you're talking on a world-wide, trillions of driving-miles basis.

If the manufacturer notices a design defect that may affect your safety, they'll write to you by registered post and ask you to bring your car in immediately. If it doesn't affect safety but it still needs to be done, they'll fix it at your next service (they'll also update your software etc. etc.).

cantdecide

I believe it's because of high cost western economies producing what are, in effect, domestic appliances at very high cost forcing them to cut costs in areas where they would not like to. The world is moving on and as soon as Mercedes etc. build their cars entirely in China or India, is as soon as you will start to see 'reliable' cars again.

I'm no economist though.

I do believe it's a nasty trick to leave goods into the market with design faults that could take a number of years to come through.

I think about all the control arms I've put into my various Audis as well as a fuel sender problem, door handle problem, dash display- all known faults. And the best one of all- aircon compressors.

javaboy

cantdecide wrote: »

I believe it's because of high cost western economies producing what are, in effect, domestic appliances at very high cost forcing them to cut costs in areas where they would not like to. The world is moving on and as soon as Mercedes etc. build their cars entirely in China or India, is as soon as you will start to see 'reliable' cars again.

I'm no economist though.

Reliable cars from China :rolleyes:


Brilliance BS6 crash test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F06LjugtIUo

cantdecide

javaboy wrote: »

Reliable cars from China :rolleyes:


Brilliance BS6 crash test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F06LjugtIUo

That's their own poor standards. Can you see Mercedes allowng that (ps, we've all seen that vid, btw)

javaboy

cantdecide wrote: »

That's their own poor standards. Can you see Mercedes allowng that (ps, we've all seen that vid, btw)

I'm sure almost everybody reading these forums has seen the video but then that's why I said what it was so people wouldn't bother clicking on it if they had. If we were to only post links/pics/opinions/questions on boards that have never been posted before, the place would shutdown within a week leaving the mods with no coke and hookers and the rest of us would have to do some work. But I digress....

I know what you're saying about Mercedes not allowing that but I'd say short to medium term that Chinese build quality will remain poor no matter who the cars are being produced for. In the long term, I'm sure cars are going to be built to very high standards in the big emerging economies, many industries are already moving that way. But at the moment I wouldn't get into a Chinese built car, never mind buy one. A prestige brand like Mercedes would be taking a big risk moving their operations to China because of the stigma attached to build quality there.