Jesus: The Lost Years

Ekancone

Hello, i keep coming across references to Jesus having spent time in India from the age of 14-29, and that he learned about Buddhism. Is there any truth to it? What is the Christian opinion on these lost years?

Húrin

I don't think it's very likely. It wasn't exactly the era of the globetrotting gap year student.

Besides Christ's culture was Jewish, and he makes no reference to Buddha in the gospels. Rather, he makes constant reference to the old testament and God as depicted in the old testament.

Ekancone

Húrin wrote: »

I don't think it's very likely. It wasn't exactly the era of the globetrotting gap year student.

Besides Christ's culture was Jewish, and he makes no reference to Buddha in the gospels. Rather, he makes constant reference to the old testament and God as depicted in the old testament.

I see. But there was established routes between these parts of the world, so it was not difficult for those who wished to. So what happened in those years?

Fanny Cradock

We are not told what he did in those years. That has not stopped some people constructing a history for him, though.

I'd put the stories that he visited India and trained under the watchful eyes of Hindu gurus etc as malicious hearsay. As such tales completely undermine the claims Jesus made about himself you would be hard pushed to find may Christians giving any credence to his jaunt around India. Theologians (objective or otherwise) agreeing with this claim would be similarly be scarce on the ground. However, as the Tatyo ad says, 'there's always one'.

Ekancone

Fair enough, i just find it bizarre that 15 years of Jesus' life are missing and there are few questions asked. You think something is being hidden? You don't find it a little queer?

PDN

daithifleming wrote: »

Fair enough, i just find it bizarre that 15 years of Jesus' life are missing and there are few questions asked. You think something is being hidden? You don't find it a little queer?

Not queer in the slightest. If Joseph had died, which is quite possible given that he doesn't seem to be around during Christ's last 3 years on earth, then it would be probable that Jesus was working as a carpenter and supporting his mother and his brothers and sisters. As far as the salvation of the world was concerned (which is, after all, the theme of the Gospels) those years would have been of little interest.

kelly1

daithifleming wrote: »

Hello, i keep coming across references to Jesus having spent time in India from the age of 14-29, and that he learned about Buddhism. Is there any truth to it? What is the Christian opinion on these lost years?

This lost years story could be put in the same bin as the story about Jesus' tomb being found. Jesus was the Son of God, He didn't need to learn from us. He came to teach the truth, not learn it.

This is just another story trying to subtly deny the divinity of Jesus. Jesus is one person possesing two natures and they're trying to suppress knowledge of His divine nature.

robindch

Húrin wrote: »

Rather, he makes constant reference to the old testament and God as depicted in the old testament.

Up to a point he does, but he also introduces a few new ideas which seem to derive from contemporary Greek philosophical thought. These include the idea of a soul, the threat of eternal punishment and the offer of eternal reward in return for being "good", the implication that god must have a soul as the 'holy spirit' and a few more. The god of the OT and the NT have many structural differences.

Back on topic, what I find interesting is that in all the worship that goes on around the figure of Jesus, nobody seems to have much interest at all in what happened to him between his childhood and the apparent start of his public career. Quite apart from any alleged trips to India, surely these were important years?

Seems weird to me that this is ignored almost to the point of discourtesy.

ryoishin

Its the resurrection event that grasped the early Christians and the Scriputre has this as its source with a view to Christs ministry. There was prob oral stories of his childhood at the time.

Ekancone

robindch wrote: »

Seems weird to me that this is ignored almost to the point of discourtesy.

Well thats the bit that bothers me about the Christian viewpoint on this matter. If he is such an important person to them, surely they would want to know about all of his life and not just a few flashpoints? I would especially be concerned by the lack of inquiry from those who regard the bible as a historical document.

kelly1

robindch wrote: »

Back on topic, what I find interesting is that in all the worship that goes on around the figure of Jesus, nobody seems to have much interest at all in what happened to him between his childhood and the apparent start of his public career. Quite apart from any alleged trips to India, surely these were important years?

Seems weird to me that this is ignored almost to the point of discourtesy.

I think Jesus gave us a clue at the wedding at Cana. His mother asked Him to do something about the lack of wine and He said His time had not yet come. I expect Jesus led a fairly ordinary life up to the time He began His ministry - working, playing and praying. He just had to wait for His appointed time to begin.

mossieh

It's a good question Daithi. I hadn't really thought about but I am now curious. Is there no testimony as to what he was doing on record?

[joking/] I'd say he was some pup of a teenager giving cheek to Joseph. 'You're not my real father! I hate you!' etc...[/joking]

BrianCalgary

robindch wrote: »

Up to a point he does, but he also introduces a few new ideas which seem to derive from contemporary Greek philosophical thought. These include the idea of a soul, the threat of eternal punishment and",.

The soul was around in OT as was eternal life and punishment

robindch wrote: »

the offer of eternal reward in return for being "good",.

This bit is not true. And we have been over this quite a bit as to where salvation comes from. Please quit spreading falsities robin.

robindch wrote: »

the implication that god must have a soul as the 'holy spirit' and a few more. The god of the OT and the NT have many structural differences.",.

The Holy Spirit as being a soul is complete hogwash. In Genesis the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Jesus teachings all derived from teh Old Testament as He quoted it and explained it. Not a mention of Greek philosophers anywhere in Jesus teachings.

robindch wrote: »

Back on topic, what I find interesting is that in all the worship that goes on around the figure of Jesus, nobody seems to have much interest at all in what happened to him between his childhood and the apparent start of his public career. Quite apart from any alleged trips to India, surely these were important years?

Seems weird to me that this is ignored almost to the point of discourtesy.

Probably because the trips never happened. Why do you want to read something into the history of Jesus that just has no evidence?

Seems weird to me that there are those who want to revise history to fit their desired outcome of belief.

mossieh

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Seems weird to me that there are those who want to revise history to fit their desired outcome of belief.

That's pretty weird alright.

robindch

kelly1 wrote: »

I expect Jesus led a fairly ordinary life up to the time He began His ministry - working, playing and praying. He just had to wait for His appointed time to begin.

Perhaps he did -- there's little information one way or the other -- but it's certainly interesting to ask why. I don't know that we can come to any conclusion, but given that Jesus is the most studied human in human history, it just seems a bit strange that half of his short life is unknown, or at least, that the stories that do exist are either aggressively rejected or ignored.

robindch

BrianCalgary wrote: »

The soul was around in OT as was eternal life and punishment

Brian, I'm referring to the bible here. In the OT, the idea of souls in general was pretty much absent, as was the ideas of eternal reward and eternal punishment. Heavenly displeasure was conveyed by earthly violence and when you died, you stayed dead. That description all changed in the NT.

BrianCalgary wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

the offer of eternal reward in return for being "good",.

This bit is not true. And we have been over this quite a bit as to where salvation comes from. Please quit spreading falsities robin.

Er, please read what I wrote. I am not "spreading falsities". I'm simply pointing out that Jesus introduced ideas which are very similar to ideas which were first seen in Plato's Myth of Er and elsewhere. You can find out more about the Myth of Er here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_Er

BrianCalgary wrote: »

The Holy Spirit as being a soul is complete hogwash. In Genesis the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Jesus teachings all derived from teh Old Testament as He quoted it and explained it. Not a mention of Greek philosophers anywhere in Jesus teachings.

All I simply said was that the idea of souls as discussed in the NT is similar to ideas which occur in roughly-contemporary Greek philosophical thought. Whether or not Jesus actually mentions Greek philosophy isn't important -- the similarity of certain aspects most certainly is.

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Probably because the trips never happened. Why do you want to read something into the history of Jesus that just has no evidence?

Good heavens, Brian, calm down and read my post again. I didn't say that he visited India, despite the existence of claims that he did! I just asked why there wasn't much interest in this period of his life.

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Seems weird to me that there are those who want to revise history to fit their desired outcome of belief.

And likewise, it seems sad to me that you seem intent on reading into my postings what is not there.

Ekancone

mossieh wrote: »

That's pretty weird alright.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Fanny Cradock

daithifleming wrote: »

Well thats the bit that bothers me about the Christian viewpoint on this matter. If he is such an important person to them, surely they would want to know about all of his life and not just a few flashpoints? I would especially be concerned by the lack of inquiry from those who regard the bible as a historical document.

It's a fair question. But I'm unsure what we can do about it. For whatever reason parts of Jesus' life were not reported upon. As Christians believe that the Bible gives us all we need for salvation, I would think it is plausible to suggest that the unreported years were not of particular relevance to this.

Ekancone

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It's a fair question. But I'm unsure what we can do about it. For whatever reason parts of Jesus' life were not reported upon. As Christians believe that the Bible gives us all we need for salvation, I would think it is plausible to suggest that the unreported years were not of particular relevance to this.

Perhaps it was a case where there was an entire volume of his life, but only certain chapters were selected for the final cut?

PDN

daithifleming wrote: »

Perhaps it was a case where there was an entire volume of his life, but only certain chapters were selected for the final cut?

In one sense that is true. John wrote at the end of his Gospel:

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. (John 21:25)

And

Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:30-31)

So John makes clear that he is in no way attempting to record a complete biography of Jesus, but only selects those events which best serve his stated purpose - to bring people to saving faith in Christ.

There are good reasons why Christians reject the various apocryphal stories and legends about those so-called "lost years". Such stories usually date from at least 100 years or more after Christ, lack early manuscript support, and are rarely if ever quoted by early Christian leaders (indicating that they were not in general use among the earliest Christian congregations).

BrianCalgary

robindch wrote: »

Brian, I'm referring to the bible here. In the OT, the idea of souls in general was pretty much absent, as was the ideas of eternal reward and eternal punishment. Heavenly displeasure was conveyed by earthly violence and when you died, you stayed dead. .

Read Daniel 12:22 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Pretty clear reference to Heaven and Hell? So you are quite wrong in your statement that the idea of eternal life and punishment was non-existent.

robindch wrote: »

That description all changed in the NT.Er, please read what I wrote. I am not "spreading falsities". I'm simply pointing out that Jesus introduced ideas which are very similar to ideas which were first seen in Plato's Myth of Er and elsewhere. You can find out more about the Myth of Er here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_Er.

I did read your statement and it was quite clear: the offer of eternal reward in return for being "good", Jesus never taught this at all, yet you misrepresent Him by saying so.

robindch wrote: »

All I simply said was that the idea of souls as discussed in the NT is similar to ideas which occur in roughly-contemporary Greek philosophical thought. Whether or not Jesus actually mentions Greek philosophy isn't important -- the similarity of certain aspects most certainly is..

And the Greek thought probably came from the Jews; and a Jew would have understood what being made in the image of God meant: having a soul.

robindch wrote: »

Good heavens, Brian, calm down and read my post again. I didn't say that he visited India, despite the existence of claims that he did! I just asked why there wasn't much interest in this period of his life.And likewise, it seems sad to me that you seem intent on reading into my postings what is not there.

There isn't much interest because it is irrelevant to His ministry and teachings and any idea of where Jesus spent that time was all made up long after His time on Earth ended.