Shed/ home office advice (reposted from Gardening & DIY

GarfieldConnoll

Hi,

I posted previously in Gardening & DIY (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055247011),
but perhaps here is more appropriate.

Hi,

I want to create a home office in my garden. I know I could buy a specialised home office, but they all seem rather pricey.
I'm considering buying a wooden shed and insulating it/ installing power, etc.
The shed I'm thinking of is an Abwood:

http://www.abwood.ie/products/shed/standard.html

I'm thinking of the pressure treated delux version, with 22mm kiln dried planed weather sheeting with tongued and grooved roof and floor. For a small increase, they'll use thicker joists so I can install insulation. Abwood could provide a complete garden office 'solution', but I'm trying to do on a tighter budget.

For insulation I'm thinking of 30mm Thermaboard for the walls and roof (Abwood will insulate the floor) and then plasterboard or plywood for the interior.

I wasn't thinking of installing any heating. The entire shed will be only c.800 cubic feet, so I'm hoping the proposed insulation would be enough (with body heat) to keep it warm.

The standard roof is a felt roof (on top of the tongue and groove). Should I upgrade this? Would I be able to put slate on top in the future or would I have to do this from the outset (weight, design, etc).

So, if anyone has any advice on this, it would be much appreciated.

Questions that come to mind are:
1. Do I need to install a membrane between the wood and the insulation?
2. Is that insulation sufficient?
3. Any pointers on electrical supply/ installation?
4. Abwood (and others) say the shed can be placed on concrete blocks (no need for foundation). Would this be sufficient?
5. Any planning issues?

All advice appreciated.

Garfield.

bauderline

I am no expert but I would guess its very likely you will need PP for that and I would not be certain you will get it. Do you live in a housing estate ?

rgs. b.

GarfieldConnoll

bauderline wrote: »

I am no expert but I would guess its very likely you will need PP for that and I would not be certain you will get it. Do you live in a housing estate ?
rgs. b.

B.,

Spoke to Dublin City Planning. As long as the shed/ office is under 25sqm and leaves 25sqm of garden remaining, then there's no need for planning. Apparently...

G.

Mellor

Afraid not, as you are planning of using it as a office and not a shed, planning is required.

muffler

If its an office for your own private work then I dont see a problem. However if you are running a business from it (dealing directly with the public) then yes you will need permission. It is a bit of a gray area though and different local authorities may well have different views on it.

GarfieldConnoll

mellor wrote: »

Afraid not, as you are planning of using it as a office and not a shed, planning is required.

muffler wrote: »

If its an office for your own private work then I dont see a problem. However if you are running a business from it (dealing directly with the public) then yes you will need permission. It is a bit of a gray area though and different local authorities may well have different views on it.

The word 'office' may have been misleading. It's a 'study' for me, not running a business from it and no access to the public.

muffler

GarfieldConnoll wrote: »

The word 'office' may have been misleading. It's a 'study' for me, not running a business from it and no access to the public.

I would view that as being ancillary to the enjoyment of the private residence and hence no PP required subject of course to the exempted sizes etc.

However as is nearly always mentioned here in these situations you are better having it confirmed by the local planning dept.

GarfieldConnoll

muffler wrote: »

However as is nearly always mentioned here in these situations you are better having it confirmed by the local planning dept.

I've a call with the planners now. Has anyone done anything similar? Upgraded a shed to use as a study/ extra room?

Garfield.

Mellor

Study is a much better way to phrase it. i'd always us study if the room was private, and office if it was business related.
I thought (for some reason) that youre office solution was business (sounds like it :))

Check with the planning authority, as very strictly speaking permission would be needed (one condition on top of the 25 sqm limit is that the finish much match existing). But this is over looked almost always, but get it confirmed first.

GarfieldConnoll

Check with the planning authority, as very strictly speaking permission would be needed (one condition on top of the 25 sqm limit is that the finish much match existing). But this is over looked almost always, but get it confirmed first.

The finish of a stand-alone shed/ study must match the finish of the dwelling? Surely not?

G.

Mellor

Thats what I said.
I also said very strictly speaking, if the shed is to be considered exempt then the finish must match. Its straight out of the exempt conditions from the Planning Act, class 3 condition 4
I don't know of anybody that was ever called up on it, but as you are outside the traditional use of a shed, I would want to get it confirmed.

Mellor

CLASS 3
The construction, erection or placing
within the curtilage of a house of any
tent, awning, shade or other object,
greenhouse, garage, store, shed or other
similar structure.

Conditions
1. No such structure shall be constructed,
erected or placed forward of the front
wall of a house.

2. The total area of such structures
constructed, erected or placed within the
curtilage of a house shall not, taken
together with any other such structures
previously constructed, erected or placed
within the said curtilage, exceed 25
square metres.

3. The construction, erection or
placing within the curtilage of a house of
any such structure shall not reduce the
amount of private open space reserved
exclusively for the use of the occupants
of the house to the rear or to the side of
the house to less than 25 square metres.

4. The external finishes of any garage or
other structure constructed, erected or
placed to the side of a house, and the roof
covering where any such structure has a
tiled or slated roof, shall conform with
those of the house.

5. The height of any such structure shall
not exceed, in the case of a building with
a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or,
in any other case, 3 metres.

6. The structure shall not be used for
human habitation or for the keeping of
pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses,
or for any other purpose other than a
purpose incidental to the enjoyment of
the house as such.

For reference all conditions.

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

For reference all conditions.

I think the following extract from your post Mellor should cover the OP regarding the usage.

6. The structure shall not be used for
human habitation ........... other than a
purpose incidental to the enjoyment of
the house as such.

Mellor

There is no issue with the usage now, I mistakenly took office to mean business office. It would have to be declared then.
Its the finishes, pont 4. But as I said, I've yet to hear of a shed or simialar to get into trouble of it, but if the LA (or anyobdy) had a problem with it, it would certainly be an route. I'm probably over cautious (I have major neighbour issues when it comes to extension/shed type work

-unlaoised-

4. The external finishes of any garage or
other structure constructed, erected or
placed to the side of a house, and the roof
covering where any such structure has a
tiled or slated roof, shall conform with
those of the house.

My reading of the above is that the finishes of the garage must match those of the house only if the garage is constructed to the side of the house.
The finish of the proposed stand alone shed would not need to match that of the house.
Trust me!

GarfieldConnoll

-unlaoised- wrote: »

My reading of the above is that the finishes of the garage must match those of the house only if the garage is constructed to the side of the house.
The finish of the proposed stand alone shed would not need to match that of the house.
Trust me!

Thanks to Muffler, Mellor and unlaoised for the planning advice.

Any information on the insulation, requirement for a membrane, foundations, etc?

Thanks,

Garfield.

muffler

-unlaoised- wrote: »

Trust me!

:eek:

galwaytt

I'd agree - a stand alone doesn't need to match.

Furthermore, the language used in the condition is not clear. It uses the term 'conform' - not match. It could therefore, conform by being complimentary or sympathetic to the finish of the house.

This is quite a common practice where to put a 'faux' match finish would detract, but a different, but complimentary finish, would in fact be visually acceptable. An example of this is where if you own a very old stone building, to add a new stone extension is often deemed unacceptable, by many authorities. However, to construct using different materials, in such a way as to not detract from the original (e.g. using glass, metal), is deemed entirely acceptable.

Mellor

-unlaoised- wrote: »

My reading of the above is that the finishes of the garage must match those of the house only if the garage is constructed to the side of the house.
The finish of the proposed stand alone shed would not need to match that of the house.

You'd be correct, but the problem lies with the fact that side of house is not defined. Different LAs might interpet it different (in fact some definatly do) This cropped up in another section a while ago, can't remember which.
The problem comes about when an area could be said to lie to both rear and side of house. The only house type that is clear cut is mid-terraced.
The grey area is much bigger when the house is a detached house, even more so when is is not parallel to the road, and more so also if the house is not rectangular.

galwaytt wrote: »

I'd agree - a stand alone doesn't need to match.
Furthermore, the language used in the condition is not clear. It uses the term 'conform' - not match. It could therefore, conform by being complimentary or sympathetic to the finish of the house.

I agree that conform is not very clear. But the only way of being cetain of conforming would be to match, complimentary or sympathetic brings in opinion and this is where ideas might clash. For example, an elaborate rimber clad stand alot might look well beside an old red brick city house, as it is complimentary or sympathetic, but it doesn't conform.
If in doubt get approval.

This is quite a common practice where to put a 'faux' match finish would detract, but a different, but complimentary finish, would in fact be visually acceptable. An example of this is where if you own a very old stone building, to add a new stone extension is often deemed unacceptable, by many authorities. However, to construct using different materials, in such a way as to not detract from the original (e.g. using glass, metal), is deemed entirely acceptable.

This is common, but there is no issue to conform with extensions. The above is far better from both a conservation and design point of view. The reason for the finishes condition is to stop people being able to build crazy looking things in their garden.

Mellor

GarfieldConnoll, could you give a few more details on the insulation provided and roughly how much use it will get.

Patrickof

Garfield, are you ex-postgem?

I've PM'd you.

GarfieldConnoll

Mellor wrote: »

GarfieldConnoll, could you give a few more details on the insulation provided and roughly how much use it will get.

There would be no insulation provided, I'd install myself. I'm thinking of Kingspan Thermoboard (30mm at a minimum). I'd install the thickest possible, based on the depth of the internal joists.
So two questions;

1. Do I have to install a membrane between the insulation and the external wood (or even between the insulation and the internal plywood/ wallboard).
2. With a minimum insulation depth of 30mm and an max. internal space of 1000 cubic feet (16*8*8, L*W*H), would body heat/ computer alone keep this space warm (or at least, not cold), in an Irish winter.

The idea is to have a garden study that can be used all year around.

All help appreciated.

Garfield.

GarfieldConnoll

GarfieldConnoll wrote: »

1. Do I have to install a membrane between the insulation and the external wood (or even between the insulation and the internal plywood/ wallboard).
Garfield.

From some online research, it appears a membrane is required between the insulation and the internal wall in order to manage moisture. Also advised to leave space between the roof insulation and the roof itself to allow for ventilation.

Any ideas on what membrane?

Garfield.

Mellor

The membrane you need is a vapour control layer or a vapour check. Plenty of manufacturers out there. A 50mm continous is required behind the roof insulation.

I think heating this space would be an issue, I will be the same temp as the external air as it is not in use. When you first enter, it will take a will to heat up based on body and computer heat alone. Once warm it should stay warm with "some" insulation installed

Yamo2004

Anyone know where secondhand garden office units are advertised? Am thinking about buying one. I presume there are some good quality portakabins lying around building sites etc that shouldn't be too dear right now. Any pointers welcome. Thanks.

pseudo-tech

Just a note for the OP. If you are going to use the shed as a home study office, it is a habitable space. Notwithstanding, the exempt planning development rule, you still need to conform to the Building Regulations which may be difficult to do (or too costly).