Dempsey or Murphy

fugee

Who would you go for full back on Saturday assuming both are fully fit?

smashey

Murphy for me.

redmca

MURPHY
Apart from all the other pros & cons, Murphy is 29, Dempsey is 32.
I would like Murphy to take over as No 1 with Kearney the long term successor

Sherifu

Murphy for me too.

homah_7ft

Could Kearney not go in right now seeing as he's already as good as/better then either of them?

andrewh5

Murphy without doubt. O'Sullivan was stupid to drop him from the 22 in the first place, as Geordan dramatically proved against Scotland.

hugejeans

Murphy for me, but if both are unfit i cant see why Kearney cant slot in.

zAbbo

I voted Girv, purely as it allows Kearney to concentrate on attacking. Rob was covering the full back spot when Murphy was out of position.

But if Girv and Murphy are carrying knocks, lets drop in Rob or Gavin and put Horgan and Bowe on the wings.

Stealdo

It strikes me sometimes that people who still believe that Geordan Murphy is a competant full back have very selective memories. Murphy will always make more highlight reels than Girvan Dempsey, but that's not necessarily what you want from your full back. When you break full back play down into a few categories I'd say you end up with the following for judgement:

Positional Sense - Dempsey comfortably
Fielding - Dempsey comfortably
Tackling - Dempsey comfortably
Tactical kicking ability - Dempsey comfortably
General Handling - even
Ability to effectively attack the line - Murphy comfortably
Pace - Dempsey comfortably
Passing ability - Dempsey marginally
Finishing ability - even


Feel free to add any or to re-arrange I don't think it's really possible to consider any without the others but they're more or less in order of importance, but for my money Murphy wins on one of these measurements, three are about even whereas Dempsey wins on all of others.

Some people like to argue that Murphy's ability to hit the line more effectively than Dempsey is enough reason to include him, but I can't understand that when he is so clearly lacking in the basic skills/tactical awareness that are required to be a full back. Besides which more and more wingers are used coming in field to do the job that Murphy supposedly does, and while neither Bowe nor Kearney is lightning fast, they're both a damn sight quicker than Murphy. Besides which Murphy's wonderful ability to hit the line leaves us exposed more often than not to turnover ball because he is out of position.

ibh

Stealdo wrote: »

Positional Sense - Dempsey comfortably
Fielding - Dempsey comfortably
Tackling - Dempsey comfortably
Tactical kicking ability - Dempsey comfortably
General Handling - even
Ability to effectively attack the line - Murphy comfortably
Pace - Dempsey comfortably
Passing ability - Dempsey marginally
Finishing ability - even

I would have aproblem with a couple of these. Firstly I would be of the opinion that Murphy's General Handling is superior to Dempseys. I would also disagree that Dempsey is comfortably faster than Murphy.. I still think Murphy has plenty of pace but so people in the media constantly refer to the fact that Horgan chased him down earlier in the year.
I would also place him ahead of Dempsey for finishing. I know that Girv is a decent finisher but i think his finishing owes more to his good timing of runs than actually finishing prowess.

And by the way, I am not a massive supporter of Murphy or detracter of Dempsey. Just feel that Murphy would be a better selection for this game. I actually would prefer to see Kearney at FB and Fitzgerald on the wing.

Stealdo

ibh wrote: »

I would have aproblem with a couple of these. Firstly I would be of the opinion that Murphy's General Handling is superior to Dempseys. I would also disagree that Dempsey is comfortably faster than Murphy.. I still think Murphy has plenty of pace but so people in the media constantly refer to the fact that Horgan chased him down earlier in the year.
I would also place him ahead of Dempsey for finishing. I know that Girv is a decent finisher but i think his finishing owes more to his good timing of runs than actually finishing prowess.

And by the way, I am not a massive supporter of Murphy or detracter of Dempsey. Just feel that Murphy would be a better selection for this game. I actually would prefer to see Kearney at FB and Fitzgerald on the wing.

I'd expect that people would take issue with some alright, and to be honest there a matter of personal opinion. Besides which my definition of general handling and yours may differ slightly. To put some context on the ones you've mentioned....general handling to me is an ability to take sloppy passes, not lose the ball in contact (I'd normally have passing ability and fielding in there too, but we're looking at them separately here). I've no recollection of Dempsey or Murphy consistantly dropping balls they should have got, and would not expect either to be brilliantly proficient with taking ones they should not. I'm guessing that Murphy's greater ability to offload etc is part of you putting him ahead of Dempsey here, I have considered that in putting them more or less level in passing ability where Murphy's inability to pass to his left or while running at pace puts Dempsey slightly back ahead. Dempsey is an adequate passer of the ball, no more, no less.

On the pace thing, I simply disagree with you, I've never seen anything from Murphy that would suggest to me that he is close to Dempsey in pace who is actually quite quick.

On finishing ability I have them as even as I consider both to be proficient at popping up on the end of a move and falling over the line a la Dempsey vs England last year and Murphy's much vaunted try against Australia in '06 (which was an incredible try, but Murphy had nothing to do with that any more so than Marcus Horan did with his last week, less so actually). Neither of them could have or would have scored either of Bowe's tries or Rob Kearney's try last week. Neither of them are great finishers in the proper sense of the word. A la Disco Denis Hickie (oh how we miss you). What I'm saying here is that I fully agree with your assesment of Dempsey, but I don't think Murphy is one jot different.

I've said it before but I will again for perspective...I am squarely in the Dempsey camp on this one, but I am doing my best to be objective here.

Eoin

Stealdo wrote: »

On the pace thing, I simply disagree with you, I've never seen anything from Murphy that would suggest to me that he is close to Dempsey in pace who is actually quite quick.

Didn't Brent Pope mention that one of the Leinster coaches said that Dempsey is deceptively fast - i.e. not far off Hickie's pace? He does seem to cover the ground quickly in defence, but that could also be his positional awareness.

Some people will never consider him more than a jersey filler unfortunately.

Stealdo

eoin_s wrote: »

Didn't Brent Pope mention that one of the Leinster coaches said that Dempsey is deceptively fast - i.e. not far off Hickie's pace? He does seem to cover the ground quickly in defence, but that could also be his positional awareness.

Some people will never consider him more than a jersey filler unfortunately.

I had heard from inside the Leinster camp a couple of years ago that Dempsey was actually quicker than Hickie over whatever sprint distance it is they do, I never believed it mind you. First I've heard of Pope mentioning it, but it makes me more inclined to believe the first source than I was before. I was actually going to put that in my last post, but I didn't think anyone would believe so I didn't.

Eoin

Stealdo wrote: »

I had heard from inside the Leinster camp a couple of years ago that Dempsey was actually quicker than Hickie over whatever sprint distance it is they do, I never believed it mind you. First I've heard of Pope mentioning it, but it makes me more inclined to believe the first source than I was before. I was actually going to put that in my last post, but I didn't think anyone would believe so I didn't.

It was after the Scottish game. They were talking about Bowe not being particularly fast, and I think it came up then.

Pope said it came from one of the Leinster coaches (possibly not a current one), and said that Dempsey was up there among the fastest on the squad. He said it wasn't as obvious because he doesn't seem to be pumping his legs, but "glides". That's his word, not mine by the way.

tHE vAGGABOND

If Dempsey and Horgan play we win..

If any other combo at Full Back and Wing play Shane Williams has a field day and we loose, end of story IMHO!

armour87

Voted Murphy. I've no prolem with Dempsey but he simply doesnt have the attacking threat of Murphy imo

tHE vAGGABOND

I've no prolem with Dempsey but he simply doesn't have the attacking threat of Murphy imo

Your 100% correct...

But Murphy makes defensive mistakes for club and country consistently at the highest level. We cant afford that IMHO..

He is also a step or two slower that he was 4 or 5 years ago, so does not slice open top class backlines as much as he did once upon a time IMHO

Stealdo

armour87 wrote: »

Voted Murphy. I've no prolem with Dempsey but he simply doesnt have the attacking threat of Murphy imo

Full back is a specialised position. Attacking threat is about 4th on the priority list and Murphy cannot perform 1-3 to international standard. Poor under the high ball, zero tackling ability and poor tactical decision maker.

You can't choose one aspect of the decision and focus solely on that, especially when it's not a particularly important one. Murphy might be a more "talented footballer" (whatever that means - it seems to only be an excuse for players who can't perform their specialist duties very well) but he is not a better full back than Dempsey.

I could at least respect an argument from someone who says that Murphy is better in the full back aspects of the game, but everyone opting for Murphy seems to only want to discuss the "attacking threat" that he supposedly has and to ignore everything else.

smashey

So, Leicester play him just for his attacking ability?

Ulstermell0

depends what game we want to play - if we play defesively i would select Girv, but i think the team that doesn't some out of its shell on saturday will lose so i hope we go all guns blazing and that means Murphy.

davyjose

In fairness, Dempsey held the 15 jersey for a long time without Murphy getting the chance, and I believe EOS was of the opinion that he's done nothing to warrant losing his place. Well either has Murphy.

Stev_o

Horgan vs Williams and you expect Horgan to get the better of him? Thats bloody crazy! Horgan is so much taller then Williams its a disadvantage and Williams pace will beat Horgan everytime. Huge guys like Horgan vs small guys usually means the small guys starts running rings around him as it is one of the most difficult things in the world to stop someone who is 5ft something who has a abundance of pace, evasion and power.

smashey

Stev_o wrote: »

Horgan vs Williams and you expect Horgan to get the better of him? Thats bloody crazy! Horgan is so much taller then Williams its a disadvantage and Williams pace will beat Horgan everytime. Huge guys like Horgan vs small guys usually means the small guys starts running rings around him as it is one of the most difficult things in the world to stop someone who is 5ft something who has a abundance of pace, evasion and power.

What about if Horgan was running at Wiliams?

Stev_o

smashey wrote: »

What about if Horgan was running at Wiliams?

Bet you that Martyn will be on hand 9/10 of the time and even if he isnt its not like Shane doesnt tackle look at the Italian match he did is share of tackling

Stealdo

smashey wrote: »

So, Leicester play him just for his attacking ability?

If you think he's a good full back who is solid defensively say it....I'm fed up with this argument that if he's good enough for Leicester he's good enough for Ireland, predominantly from people who don't even watch the GP (no idea whether you do Smashey - and I must admit I'm not a major fan of it myself).
I don't know and I don't particularly care why Leicester play him, but I do know it's not for his defensive ability.

Stealdo

davyjose wrote: »

In fairness, Dempsey held the 15 jersey for a long time without Murphy getting the chance, and I believe EOS was of the opinion that he's done nothing to warrant losing his place. Well neither has Murphy done anything to displace him.

Fixed that for you Davy....no charge.

hugejeans

The reason people go on about Murphy's attacking ability is because it is where he stands out in his game, equaly we could turn around and say stop going on about Dempsy and how good he is in defense. Dempsy stands out in defense, Murphy in attack. And from someone who does watch the GP i've seen Murphy do his fair share of defense.

Luckycharm

Jeez some of you boys listen to the Sky hype machine. Turnstyles is the most overhyped under achiever to play for Ireland since Conor O Shea.

The guy does alright against the average to poor teams like Scotland, Wales, Italy, Romania etc but he put shivers down my back when I see him lining up against any of the big boys like NZ, SA, France. He is a liability against these teams - his defence is a joke - do I need to post to like to his pathetic attempt on Chabal, never mind Rougerie, Latham, clerc etc. Imagine him lining up against the Volcano against england!!
When was the last time he played well against a good team.
He is a liable to throw away intercepts as hit his man, he threw away a couple against France one in Croke park another in Paris 2 years ago, one in Argie on tour another not long ago against Glaws.
People call him brave because he actually attempted to catch a high ball against Scotland?? (people tend to forget he dropped most of them) Would they say the same of Girv?
Does everyone seem to forget he played at fullback against Argentina in the world cup where he continually showed his attacking flair by running slowly into the first defender and often getting turned over- tell me the last time you saw Girv turned over.
Personally I would like to see Kearney play at FB on Sat

Stev_o

Luckycharm wrote: »

Jeez some of you boys listen to the Sky hype machine. Turnstyles is the most overhyped under achiever to play for Ireland since Conor O Shea.

The guy does alright against the average to poor teams like Scotland, Wales, Italy, Romania etc but he put shivers down my back when I see him lining up against any of the big boys like NZ, SA, France. He is a liability against these teams - his defence is a joke - do I need to post to like to his pathetic attempt on Chabal, never mind Rougerie, Latham, clerc etc. Imagine him lining up against the Volcano against england!!
When was the last time he played well against a good team.
He is a liable to throw away intercepts as hit his man, he threw away a couple against France one in Croke park another in Paris 2 years ago, one in Argie on tour another not long ago against Glaws.
People call him brave because he actually attempted to catch a high ball against Scotland?? (people tend to forget he dropped most of them) Would they say the same of Girv?
Does everyone seem to forget he played at fullback against Argentina in the world cup where he continually showed his attacking flair by running slowly into the first defender and often getting turned over- tell me the last time you saw Girv turned over.
Personally I would like to see Kearney play at FB on Sat

Wow for such a ****e player he manages to do well here against New Zealand
4.27

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=6bCaSVvqHG8

Eoin

Stev_o wrote: »

Wow for such a ****e player he manages to do well here against New Zealand
4.27

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=6bCaSVvqHG8

You see, I don't think that Murphy is shìte. I do think that Dempsey doesn't get enough credit though. He's not just a one dimensional high ball catcher. Perhaps he was a few years ago, but the last couple of seasons have been very good for him. He is good in defence (though could have done better against France in the RWC), and is deceptively quick. He's not the playmaker that Murphy is, but is a great support runner and beats a defender more often than people give him credit for.

Ulstermell0

the argentina game in the RWC is not a fair match to review - it was like EOS said 'well geordan i've been getting a lot of stick for not playing you so go out and show me why i was wrong.'

He did run too much in that match but he had a hell of a lot of pressure on him and i expect he was asked to show his running game as EOS's tactics had come up against a brick wall.

Luckycharm

What one kick ahead and regather?
He does well here too best view at 49 secs


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=QMob56WgFzA

Also he is brillant here around 14 secs in

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=inL3jzWVGt0

Can't find anything on youtube showing his man of the match performance for France in Paris in 2006

Stev_o

Luckycharm wrote: »

What one kick ahead and regather?
He does well here too best view at 49 secs


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=QMob56WgFzA

Also he is brillant here around 14 secs in

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=inL3jzWVGt0

Can't find anything on youtube showing his man of the match performance for France in Paris in 2006

Yeah his tackling is rubbish but i never denied it.

Btw do you remember intercept he got when the French were going to score during that day in Croker? If he didnt do it we wouldnt have even taken the lead in that game

Luckycharm

I forgot to mention Murphys wonderful attempted tackle on Latham in Nov 2005 or his great pass behind Bowes back into touch 5 ms from the line in those NOv internationals as well.
How many tries has Girv scored and who has he scored against and do the same comparison with murphy- it would be interesting

Had a quick look neither are prolific against the Top tier nations that I can see- Girv (19 tries) has 2 against England, Murphy (18tries) has one against OZ - both seem to score lots against Italy

Luckycharm

Stev_o wrote: »

Yeah his tackling is rubbish but i never denied it.

Btw do you remember intercept he got when the French were going to score during that day in Croker? If he didnt do it we wouldnt have even taken the lead in that game

If he didn't miss the tackle we would not have been chasing such a big lead. He actually missed 2 tackles in a row in what led to that try not to mention he also gave away an intercept in that game - they did not score from it.

So you are saying it is OK that he cannot tackle - He would be a good touch player mind

Again tell me how many times he has well against a GOOD team in the last 5 years.

Podge_irl

Stev_o wrote: »

Wow for such a ****e player he manages to do well here against New Zealand
4.27

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=6bCaSVvqHG8

He's quite good with the up and unders all right. He's also good at hitting the line. On the other hand, he is crap taking the ball into contact, regularly throws wild passes, and is often too slow to finish off moves he starts.

I also happen to like my fullbacks being able to tackle. But I'm weird like that.

Stev_o

Podge_irl wrote: »

He's quite good with the up and unders all right. He's also good at hitting the line. On the other hand, he is crap taking the ball into contact, regularly throws wild passes, and is often too slow to finish off moves he starts.

I also happen to like my fullbacks being able to tackle. But I'm weird like that.

Yes i know he cant tackle i dont need to be told constantly also i dont like being reminded how good Girve is in defence. Murphy isnt really a player to go into contact he says it himself he's a playmaker he doesnt regard himself as a finisher .

What i cant understand though is Girve. I mean ffs iv seen him counter attack well youtube him against SA and he actually beat a few players before [wrongly] smashing into someone. But why doesnt he do it more often??? He never breaks into full stride when he "counter attacks" he almost jogs and gets tackled.

siochain

ibh wrote: »

I would have aproblem with a couple of these. Firstly I would be of the opinion that Murphy's General Handling is superior to Dempseys. I would also disagree that Dempsey is comfortably faster than Murphy.. I still think Murphy has plenty of pace but so people in the media constantly refer to the fact that Horgan chased him down earlier in the year.
I would also place him ahead of Dempsey for finishing. I know that Girv is a decent finisher but i think his finishing owes more to his good timing of runs than actually finishing prowess.

.

FACT

siochain

Luckycharm wrote: »

Had a quick look neither are prolific against the Top tier nations that I can see- Girv (19 tries) has 2 against England, Murphy (18tries) has one against OZ - both seem to score lots against Italy

Are you comparing like with like here, are the above stats only for when Murphy started at fullback?

Sherifu

Posting FACT to win an argument, haven't seen that in a while
Anyway 36 votes for Murphy and 15 votes for Dempsey at the moment, I expected it to be more even. Dempsey has done nothing wrong and he is solid as a rock but I still think Murphy going forward with the back line; if it all clicked and we were attacking more than defending then that would be the perfect outcome against Wales. I agree Dempsey has become a better finisher but even so i'd still like to see Murphy playing, he's more exciting to watch imo.

[Jackass]

I voted murphy by accident, but I meant Dempsey lol

Couldn't agree with Stealdo more. Murphy will throw in a performance like against Scotland every now and then, or like when he came on against Wales last year and be insperational. What a hero. But then he'll have games like he did against France and give his minimum one game-costing performance for Ireland a year..

With the players in the backs that we have, if you give me an option of total security and excellent all around full back defensive performance I'd take it. And don't forget Dempsey has excellent finsihing and scores crucial trys as well, more than you'd think! Fair enough he doesn't come up with the brilliance of Murphy when he's at his best, but he also never makes the fatal blunders Murphy is so prone to either...and conisdering this is your last line of defence, you want a solid one!

But for all the show boating Murphy does, here's a nerd stat attack for you:

Dempsey:
81 Caps
19 Trys
Average: 1 try every 4 games

Murphy:
Caps: 55
Trys: 18
Average: 1 try every 3 games

For all Dempseys undoubted supieriorty in Defence, he's not far behind on the try stakes either!

Sherifu

[Jackass] wrote: »

I voted murphy by accident, but I meant Dempsey lol

Living up to your username


Interesting stats

Eoin

Stev_o wrote: »

Yes i know he cant tackle i dont need to be told constantly also i dont like being reminded how good Girve is in defence. Murphy isnt really a player to go into contact he says it himself he's a playmaker he doesnt regard himself as a finisher .

You seem to complain about Dempsey quite a lot, so don't be surprised when people point out that Dempsey is a much better tackler than Murphy.

Stev_o wrote: »

What i cant understand though is Girve. I mean ffs iv seen him counter attack well youtube him against SA and he actually beat a few players before [wrongly] smashing into someone. But why doesnt he do it more often??? He never breaks into full stride when he "counter attacks" he almost jogs and gets tackled.

He is deceptively quick. Just because someone isn't all knees and elbows when they're running, doesn't mean that they're not at full tilt. This is what Brent Pope was saying, which I said in one of my earlier posts.

Sandwich

Fans vote for dreams
Managers vote for money

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

Murphy:
Caps: 55
Trys: 18
Average: 1 try every 3 games

Fully half of which came against minnows (USA x4, Fiji x2, Samoa, Japan and Romania).

Dempsey's stats are similar with regards to about half his tries scored against minnows (interestingly, Murphy has never scored against England and neither has scored against France), but then I'm not putting him forward as some awesome attacking force. His positioning is better and he has run in some "easy" important scores by being in the right place at the right time and making them look easy.

Murphy gets away with a lot more at club level, but with less time and the more physical international game he suffers. It's not the first time its happened to a player. He can't take the ball into contact or tackle effectively. Also, for all his creativity, he throws ridiculous passes (which are often loopy and intercept city). His positioning isn't great, Kearney was often covering full back in defence or on kicks against Scotland. All of these things add up to not being able to play full back properly as far as I am concerned. Down through the years I remember him costing Ireland far more than he ever created.

Stealdo

[Jackass] wrote: »

Couldn't agree with Stealdo more.

Sherifu wrote: »

Living up to your username

:eek:

hugejeans wrote: »

The reason people go on about Murphy's attacking ability is because it is where he stands out in his game, equaly we could turn around and say stop going on about Dempsy and how good he is in defense. Dempsy stands out in defense, Murphy in attack. And from someone who does watch the GP i've seen Murphy do his fair share of defense.

HJ - I don't think anyone is questioning that Murphy is better from an attacking point of view and Dempsey from a defensive. The point I am making is more to do with priorities when it comes to a full back. Take Jason Robinson for example, a far better attacking FB that murphy ever was, but I would never have played him there because he couldn't kick and being able to kick is pretty important for FB. Once teams figured out how to defend against his running he was useless at FB. In an earlier post I put down what I think are the important abilities for a FB fair enough if you think they should be re-ordered but for me, tackling, the high ball, and tactical kicking will always be more important that coming into the line.

Besides this actually, as many have already said Murphy is just as likely to cost you a try with his counter attacking as he is to create one.

Crash

I think people are avoiding the issue - we have two decent fullbacks, if the team decisions and game plans were smart we could be in a position to change a match halfway through depending on our bench - switch from a tight quite conservative team in the first half, say against the wind (dempsey, best, paulie and DOC in the 2nd row, maybe a few others, shaggy in a largely defensive role on the wing) to quite a fast attacking team (switch bowe, kearney, murphy, jackman, MOD on to get fresh legs) within a few passages of play. (of course this is based on kearney still playing wing). but its perfectly feasible to become a team thats able to adapt to the game and conditions easily off the bench. we have the players there, why don't we do it?

Stealdo

çrash_000 wrote: »

I think people are avoiding the issue - we have two decent fullbacks, if the team decisions and game plans were smart we could be in a position to change a match halfway through depending on our bench - switch from a tight quite conservative team in the first half, say against the wind (dempsey, best, paulie and DOC in the 2nd row, maybe a few others, shaggy in a largely defensive role on the wing) to quite a fast attacking team (switch bowe, kearney, murphy, jackman, MOD on to get fresh legs) within a few passages of play. (of course this is based on kearney still playing wing). but its perfectly feasible to become a team thats able to adapt to the game and conditions easily off the bench. we have the players there, why don't we do it?

Not sure what you're suggesting here Crash. I agree with the sentiment that we need to be able to change the game through clever use of the bench, but I don't understand the specific changes you're suggesting. Maybe post how you would like the team to start and then the changes you would make.
I personally don't think there's any room for Geordan Murphy in any shirt other than 15 (obviously I don't like him there either, but I prefer itto him being on the bench) because he just doesn't provide any decent cover elsewhere, so giving him 22 is leaving yourself open to being in trouble. If he does start at 15 I wouldn't ever have Dempsey on the bench because he just isn't the kind of guy who will come off the bench and make an impact. Fine in the days of replacements, but in these days of tactical substitutions there's a particular type of guy you want on the bench and he isn't necessarily the same make up as a starter.

Luckycharm

For People who say Girv has no attacking ability or speed.
Remember the game against Georgia in the RWC that we nearly lost- who scored our crucial try stepping around the last defender along the touchline?
Who made the first break against England last year in Croke park breaking a Wilkinson tackle?
Who was the only back in the French game who showed enough pace to match the French back 3- remember Rougeries kick ahead who beat him back to the ball?

Who when Leinster played against Toulouse in the RDS in HEC made a run outpacing Heymans?
Yes you know the answer to all of these is GIRV

In his 81 caps who can remember him making a crucial mistake costing us a match or missing a crucial tackle?

While in 55 caps I can name quite a few games Turnstyles has cost us matches made stupid mistakes.

I have asked this question before when has Turnstyles put in a decent performance against one of the TOP teams in the world in the last 5 years.
He reminds me a bit of Martyn williams who is great when the game is open and loose but when it is a tight match against big forwards he goes missing.

Diamondmaker

Podge_irl wrote: »

His positioning isn't great, Kearney was often covering full back in defence or on kicks against Scotland. .

This in my opinion is a good thing, be it Murphy or Dempsey at FB it is a great asset to have a solid guy like Kearney who can comfortably slot into FB when the FB makes an attacking move.

I would not hold the fact that Kearney stepped in to cover Murphy but I would say Murphy was able to do what he did BECAUSE Kearney could step in.

When Shaggy was on the wing he would hardly make a good stand in FB, Hickie was always good at sweeping due to his pace but Kearney is a good solid FB in his own right.

Murphy or Dempsey attacking with RK slotting back is a great alterantive we never really had I feel Kearney is key to the FB debate and he allowed the flexibility Murphy enjoyed against Scotland.

Any team with an attacking FB has a winger that steps in, this is NOT a lack of positional awarenss in the FB !

Optimus Caesar

eoin_s wrote: »

Pope said it came from one of the Leinster coaches (possibly not a current one), and said that Dempsey was up there among the fastest on the squad. He said it wasn't as obvious because he doesn't seem to be pumping his legs, but "glides". That's his word, not mine by the way.

Matt Williams said that Dempsey was the fastest player in the Leinster squad (think it was in an interview with The Times but not sure) when he was coach. I think they were over 60M sprints but again can't be sure as it was a long time ago that I read it.