Sound Replacing

PaulBrewer

Anyone any experience of sound replacing, specifically drums?

Any good 'neutral' sounding drum libraries i.e clean relatively unprocessed (or at least sounding that way) drums that would be good as a add to a not great drum sound.

How do you trigger? do you make a copy track and edit that for triggering?

Brettzy perhaps you might know?

I've a few tracks to mix and from speaking to guys in the business who have no names who specialize in mixing it's a common thing to do. I've tried it before but find it hard to make work.

Any ideas?

frobisher

I'm dying to try this but haven't been working with live drums in quite a while. I've been following all the threads on it over on Gearslutz and Steven Slate drums seem to be the popular choice. The amount of times I could have used this in the past to make up for crap snares and bass drums! I tell ya, the kids today don't know they're born.

PaulBrewer

Any specific Gearslutz threads ?

PaulBrewer

Drumagog looks interesting..

Anima

Its done in drum and bass a lot. Lots of the old sampled breaks don't sound the cleanest so they're filtered, eq'd and mixed with single hit samples ( which are unprocessed, no reverb or anything ). The result is the same swing and rhythm of the break with the added omph of the single hits.

I get my samples off forums mainly. Lots of the drum and bass forums have links to thousands of drum samples.

Heres a link for some nice kicks and snares:
http://files.filefront.com/EN1783+Kicks+Snares/;9341321;/fileinfo.html

PaulBrewer

Thanks!

D+B wouldn't really be my bag, I'm more an Indie Kid (when I say Kid......)

I've few tracks to mix where the drums are at best average so it's in the context of live kit replacing (or adding) I'm interested in.

Same principle I guess.

Cheers either way

cornbb

Anima wrote: »

Its done in drum and bass a lot. Lots of the old sampled breaks don't sound the cleanest so they're filtered, eq'd and mixed with single hit samples ( which are unprocessed, no reverb or anything ). The result is the same swing and rhythm of the break with the added omph of the single hits.

I get my samples off forums mainly. Lots of the drum and bass forums have links to thousands of drum samples.

Heres a link for some nice kicks and snares:
http://files.filefront.com/EN1783+Kicks+Snares/;9341321;/fileinfo.html

Now that IS interesting... I guess it makes sense too, everyone would be bored to death if the Amen break was used unadulterated in all D&B tunes. I'd also be interested in learning how these things are triggered... some sort of algorithm that detects peaks/transients in the sample and translates em to MIDI? I guess it wouldn't be too tricky to do it manually, if the sample wasn't too long.

ogy

i've only ever done it manually in emergencies with other bits of the same track to be honest but i've heard a bit about it from others...

as far as i know though drumagog is the industry standard for this type of thing. one guy i know whos a pro-engineer said it was great and using it and melodyne it was about as close as you can get to playing with audio like midi.

ive heard bfd has the best untreated samples, theres loads of libraries for it, though they all cost extra (one of which was recorded in electrical audio, steve albinis place, mmmm).

you can get a version of drumagog that works with BFD, what what i've heard this is the way to go! (its called Drumagog BFD suprisingly, although you have to already have BFD).

frobisher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Any specific Gearslutz threads ?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/100972-finished-steven-slate-drums-drumagog.html

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-product-alert/100082-steven-slate-drum-samples-demo-mp3s-posted.html

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/114158-how-do-you-guys-do-samplereplacement.html

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/167978-drum-mixing-techniques-pros.html

There are loads more threads too but some general good reading on the topic amongst the above.
Just so you know, Steven Slate often posts on threads that are about his own products. His user name is "Bang".

PaulBrewer

Cheers Squire!

PaulBrewer

Aye, I'll try Drumagog tomorrow , looks the the tool ok.

It's hard to know with the Steve Slate stuff as all the demos are pretty reverby, but might be worth the $199 ok ...

studiorat

Sound replacer (syncro arts I think) would let you replace 3 different velocities, then render a new track. Handy enough to stick under a snare with a but of shiftin'. Probably better so completely replace the kik.

Lets see now, ya turn over the tape and run the snare through a gate and then the delay for your trigger. Careful to remember that track 24 is now track 1, where's my teeth?

PaulBrewer

Go on with ya! -

I'm thinkin' Euro 500 would get a lad Drumagog and some samples - has to be worth a lash....

Must be better than the sound of a frozen Mackerel being hit off a Fridge door which one of our Snares sounded like yesterday!

studiorat

That's smells! Fish smell they don't make noise!

PaulBrewer

Frozen I said........ Duh?

ogy

check out the BFD demo too, well worth a look, possibly where you could allocate your sample euros too

brettzy

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Anyone any experience of sound replacing, specifically drums?

Any good 'neutral' sounding drum libraries i.e clean relatively unprocessed (or at least sounding that way) drums that would be good as a add to a not great drum sound.

How do you trigger? do you make a copy track and edit that for triggering?

Brettzy perhaps you might know?

I've a few tracks to mix and from speaking to guys in the business who have no names who specialize in mixing it's a common thing to do. I've tried it before but find it hard to make work.

Any ideas?

The way I do it is run drumagog, on let say the snare, and set it to output midi to an internal device. Then set up a midi track with the midi out of drumagog as it's input, arm it and hit record. Once I've recorded the midi version of the snare I manually go through the midi hits to make sure they are the right velocity and fix any miss hits etc.
Then send the midi track to a nice BFD snare and process it like a normal snare. It can be a real pain if there are loads of ghost notes and fast rolls as drumagog never gets it all spot on but in the end it is worth doing if the original drum lacks punch or inconsistency due to an inexperienced drummer.

In BFD 2 there are plenty unprocessed drums that work very well. I also have the deluxe pack and the Andy Johns pack which have up to 250 velocity layers and some beautifully recorded drums. Also in BFD 2 you have a choice of 3 different mics on each snare (sm57 top, sm57 bottom and a neumann km84) or you can blend them, plus stereo overheads, room and ambient mics. You have full control over the mixer and can route any mic to audio channels in your DAW so you can still process them OTB if you wish.

You do need to be very careful when choosing velocity levels, if they are all the same it makes an organic track sound like a drum machine and too varied and it sounds like a bad drummer.

brettzy

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Go on with ya! -

I'm thinkin' Euro 500 would get a lad Drumagog and some samples - has to be worth a lash....

Must be better than the sound of a frozen Mackerel being hit off a Fridge door which one of our Snares sounded like yesterday!

To be honest, the samples in drumagog are pretty lame IMHO. Your frozen fish might sound better!!

trackmixstudio

Aptrigga is what you are all after, you just didn't know it yet!
I use it ALL THE TIME with logic. It allows you to load up to 6 samples and fire them by velocity, in sequence or randomly.
For triggering metal kick drums I use 4 samples that I have recorded from my Sonor S Class Maple and fire them randomly. Works brilliantly.
In the plugin, you can set gain, threshold and use filters to fire samples only on the hits. The filters are powerful enough to get hats out of the snare.
If you are using logic, navigate to the exs24 sample library and there are lots of nice drum samples in there.
This is one of my "every session" plugins that I would be lost without.
And the best part. IT COSTS €35.
http://www.apulsoft.ch/aptrigga/index.php
Please note I am not on commission (in reference to another topic!)
Michael

Carrigsound

Paul, save your dosh till you try this. http://www.smartelectronix.com/%7Ekoen/KTDrumTrigger/

The idea been, you use the drum trigger as an insert on say your snare track.
Then filter like crazy till you hear mostly snare and little else, and use that as your trigger. This particular
drum trigger outputs MIDI which can be recorded directly to a MIDI track.

I use Surry Sound Room, Drums; Hits and Ambience. Well recorded with no processing. I've had them a few years so don't know if still available.

Hope this helps

Liam

brettzy

Carrigsound wrote: »

Paul, save your dosh till you try this. http://www.smartelectronix.com/%7Ekoen/KTDrumTrigger/

The idea been, you use the drum trigger as an insert on say your snare track.
Then filter like crazy till you hear mostly snare and little else, and use that as your trigger. This particular
drum trigger outputs MIDI which can be recorded directly to a MIDI track.

I use Surry Sound Room, Drums; Hits and Ambience. Well recorded with no processing. I've had them a few years so don't know if still available.

Hope this helps

Liam

Wow, thats a great product! Much better for me than Drumagog if it works. I'll test it out later, thanks Liam

ogy

nice one carrigsound! ive used loads stuff from smartelectronix before im always impressed, but never noticed this one, great call!

dav nagle

I know I keep saying it so my apologies, but have a listen to BFD 2. It has countless snare types and you can tweak the sound to match the drum room you recorded in. Also, there is countless expansions so your 'snare type' has to be there.

brettzy

dav nagle wrote: »

I know I keep saying it so my apologies, but have a listen to BFD 2. It has countless snare types and you can tweak the sound to match the drum room you recorded in. Also, there is countless expansions so your 'snare type' has to be there.

How're ya dav, did you get any of the expansion set yourself?? Having loads of fun with the andy johns pack meself. 250 velocity layers on most snares and some toms, its crazy!!

dav nagle

brettzy wrote: »

How're ya dav, did you get any of the expansion set yourself?? Having loads of fun with the andy johns pack meself. 250 velocity layers on most snares and some toms, its crazy!!

Hey Bretzzy,

BFD 2 is great, you were right.
In April I will pick up an expansion, maybe you might be so good as to point me in the right direction? All in all I know sitting in recording everything yourself is no fun or anti social for some but BFD 2 has given my own demos a boost. I have been using live drums recorded by people who are not really into my stuff and just have to make do with what I get or else drum samples or what not. Hows the music going for you these days? Do you play gigs yourself?

brettzy

dav nagle wrote: »

Hey Bretzzy,

BFD 2 is great, you were right.
In April I will pick up an expansion, maybe you might be so good as to point me in the right direction? All in all I know sitting in recording everything yourself is no fun or anti social for some but BFD 2 has given my own demos a boost. I have been using live drums recorded by people who are not really into my stuff and just have to make do with what I get or else drum samples or what not. Hows the music going for you these days? Do you play gigs yourself?

Haven't done a gig in a long while, the studio fills my musical needs these days!

I've only had the andy johns pack for a week so I haven't really explored all the ins and outs yet. Lovin it so far though. I suppose it depends on what sound your after. BFD 2 has a bit of everything. The delux pack just extends that to a larger choice where as andy johns pack has more classic sounding pieces. The joe barresi is suited to metal if that what your after but I haven't tried it yet. If you're not in any rush then wait a few weeks for the jim scott pack to be released, it promises to be good!

What suit of sound are you looking for?? What snare and kick do you use the most in BFD 2??

PaulBrewer

brettzy wrote: »

which have up to 250 velocity layers .

Sure that's more than a real drummer!

Thanks to all who posted!

PaulBrewer

Usually 2 Velocity Layers, 'Loud' and 'Too Feckin Loud' .........

dav nagle

brettzy wrote: »

Haven't done a gig in a long while, the studio fills my musical needs these days!

I've only had the andy johns pack for a week so I haven't really explored all the ins and outs yet. Lovin it so far though. I suppose it depends on what sound your after. BFD 2 has a bit of everything. The delux pack just extends that to a larger choice where as andy johns pack has more classic sounding pieces. The joe barresi is suited to metal if that what your after but I haven't tried it yet. If you're not in any rush then wait a few weeks for the jim scott pack to be released, it promises to be good!

What suit of sound are you looking for?? What snare and kick do you use the most in BFD 2??

I tend to use the 'ayotte snare 1' with the indie kit preset and then 'paiste' crash for that standard studio sound. I'll wait for the Jim Scott, anything new these days from Fxpansion seems of a really nice quality.

PaulBrewer

Now, one of my UK lads reckons Drum Rehab is 'Da Daddy'..... anyone have thoughts?

PaulBrewer

Went for Drumagog Platinum that came with a good few samples too...

Piece of Pish to use and very good.

We tried it on a drum track we recorded. It sounded pants, dunno what we were at.......

Dropped in kick, snare AND toms and hey presto. Tracking was good too.

Even soloing the kit I couldn't tell it had been replaced.

We're working on a track at the moment where we're adding electronic 'simmons' drums type sounds underneath real toms.

Sounds pretty surreal and cool!

digitaldeath

Does anyone have any experience using Sound Replacer in Pro Tools?