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Goal scoring wingers

  • 02-03-2008 07:04PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭


    Was just thinking about the various wingers in the league. How many goals is a winger expected to score during a season ? What is a good return ?

    The figures below are off the top of my head so correct me if Im wrong & help me add in new players.

    Figures are in all comps.

    Ronaldo - 29 (4 pens)
    Benayoun- 10
    Bentley - 9
    Babel - 8
    Downing - 5
    Hunt - 5
    Petrov - 4
    Young - 4
    Sean Wright Philips - 4
    Kranjcar - 3
    Nani - 3
    Malouda - 2
    Giggs - 2
    Park - 1
    Pennant - 0
    Kewell - 0

    It probably would have been better to assess assists as well as goals as this is as much a a part of a wingers game as anything else. For exmaple, Ashley Young has a whopping 14 assists from 28 starts.

    The most notable player is Ronaldo. The season isnt over and it looks like he will score a fair bit more than 30 goals. No winger has the right to score that many! Amazing.

    From my team, I think Benayoun has been a great buy. Hes no Ronaldo but hes a good option coming off the bench. He only cost around 4m yet has scored 10 goals. A good return. Babel has had a rocky start to his Liverpool career. He has been inconsistent in his performances but 8 is a decent return from him as well.

    I'm surprised Malouda hasnt scored more. I thought he would do very well in the EPL.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,404 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    David Bentley has 9 goals and a fair few assists (7 assists in the league i think), contributes to a lot more then that as well.

    Downings got 5goals I think.

    Petrov has 4goals and 8 assists.

    Hunt has 5 goals 4 assists.

    Kranjcar has 3 goals 4 assists

    To be fair to Malouda, he's not played anywhere near as much as he probably should have. Coming out over the Mourinho thing after he left has possibly stopped his Chelsea career before it ever really started..

    <edit> more added

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    David Bentley has 9 goals and a fair few assists (7 assists in the league i think), contributes to a lot more then that as well.

    To be fair to Malouda, he's not played anywhere near as much as he probably should have. Coming out over the Mourinho thing after he left has possibly stopped his Chelsea career before it ever really started..

    He played a fair bit at the start of the season didnt he ? Added Bentley.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    Ronaldo doesn't have that many assists I believe, infact I think Nani nearly has 3 times as much as him for assists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Unearthly wrote: »
    Ronaldo doesn't have that many assists I believe, infact I think Nani nearly has 3 times as much as him for assists.

    Why pass when you can put it in the net yourself ? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,589 ✭✭✭✭Necronomicon


    Yeah not many assist from Ronaldo, but we'll forgive him with that goals return :)

    England actually have a bit of an embarrassment of riches on the right now; Bentley, SWP, Lennon, I'm sure Young could switch to the right as well.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    Tusky wrote: »
    Why pass when you can put it in the net yourself ? :)

    Indeed

    I was still shocked seeing he doesn't have that many assists though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    nani has 12 assists, 3 goals. nani is one of the best crossers of the ball in england and will only get better. 2 of his 3 goals have been up there for goal of the season.

    i think benayouns stats are misleading, 6 of those goals came in 2 games, against shall we say, not the best of opposition. 3 against besiktas 8-0 and 3 in the havant and waterlooville game. hardly inspiring! i think he has been poor and is not a liverpool player.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,404 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    added a few more into my post, mostly league totals though some are overall, depending on what i found.

    Malouda did start a lot at the start and I thought looked really good, since Mourinho left he hasn't played as much. Only started 13 prem games this season. Doesn't seem as interested when he does play either. Was pretty stupid to get in Grants bad books straight away really. Made life very hard for himself.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Raekwon


    I'm sure Young could switch to the right as well.

    Ashley Young is naturally a right-winger but Martin O'Neill plays him on the left (to great effect I might add).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    nani has 12 assists, 3 goals. nani is one of the best crossers of the ball in england and will only get better. 2 of his 3 goals have been up there for goal of the season.

    i think benayouns stats are misleading, 6 of those goals came in 2 games, against shall we say, not the best of opposition. 3 against besiktas 8-0 and 3 in the havant and waterlooville game. hardly inspiring! i think he has been poor and is not a liverpool player.

    Do goals against crap opposition not count or something ? Even if you take away the two hatricks hes still got 4 goals which is more than alot of the wingers on that list. I think hes a handy little player to have on the bench.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Thanx 4 The Fish


    Nahh he is such an ardent hater of Liverpool Tusk that he will not bother to make any kind of decent argument, just say goals against weaker opposition make him a lesser player.

    Of course if anybody were to work out the number of goals ronaldo has scored against the so called lesser teams and it left them off his tally, then I am sure he would change the definition to suit him again. :rolleyes:

    Like maybe, sporting lisbon, birmingham, wigan, a sh1t newcastle team both times...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,589 ✭✭✭✭Necronomicon


    Like maybe, sporting lisbon, birmingham, wigan, a sh1t newcastle team both times...

    I was going to say you can't compare Newcastle to Havant & Waterlooville, but it doesn't sound too crazy now :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    If we're deducting points for goals being against crap teams then surely Ronaldo should be struck off because he plays as part of a front three most of the time and not really on the wing at all?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    I think in terms of stats, ignoring league cup isn't the worst idea to be honest. I think league stats and CL stats show a real picture in terms of quality


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    PHB wrote: »
    I think in terms of stats, ignoring league cup isn't the worst idea to be honest. I think league stats and CL stats show a real picture in terms of quality

    What if the player doesn't play Champions League like Young, Bentley or Petrov? Should be league only then if you're gettin rid of the league cup.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭Savman


    Naturally most will lump in for one of their own, so I have to point out that Ashley Young's assists this season is quite phenomenal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,485 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Stekelly wrote: »
    If we're deducting points for goals being against crap teams then surely Ronaldo should be struck off because he plays as part of a front three most of the time and not really on the wing at all?

    i would say the same thing, is c.ronaldo really playing as a winger currently, if so surely thierry henry also played as a winger at arsenal. there is no way ronaldo would play in the position he plays at man utd currently if they had an out and out striker like andy cole or Ruud van Nistelrooy. in fact alongside van nistelrooy ronaldos stats in the league read

    2003/04 PL: 29 Scored 4
    2004/05 PL: 33 Scored 5
    2005/06 PL: 33 Scored 9


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭stick-dan


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    i would say the same thing, is c.ronaldo really playing as a winger currently, if so surely thierry henry also played as a winger at arsenal. there is no way ronaldo would play in the position he plays at man utd currently if they had an out and out striker like andy cole or Ruud van Nistelrooy. in fact alongside van nistelrooy ronaldos stats in the league read

    2003/04 PL: 29 Scored 4
    2004/05 PL: 33 Scored 5
    2005/06 PL: 33 Scored 9


    haha, sure ronaldo winger,,more like whinger....

    to be fair he has played as a striker for most of the season lol

    can someone make up the goals he has actually scored against the top ten this year and also highlight the peno's...

    that would be interesting reading.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭Savman


    stick-dan wrote: »
    haha, sure ronaldo winger,,more like whinger....

    to be fair he has played as a striker for most of the season lol

    can someone make up the goals he has actually scored against the top ten this year and also highlight the peno's...

    that would be interesting reading.
    Warning: any attempt to try paint the PL's leading goalscorer in a bad light will result in you looking very silly indeed, so tread very softly ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Ronaldo doesn't play as part of a front 3, he plays as part of a front 4. United have played a 4-3-3 once this season really, maybe twice.

    If you take the Pitch as 15 positions

    --RB---CB---CB----LB
    -RWB--DMC--DMC-LWB
    --RM---MC---MC--LM
    --RW--AMC--AMC--LW
    --RWF--CF--CF---LWF-

    United play a

    --RB--CB--CB--LB-
    ----DMC--DMC----
    -RW---AMC---LW-
    CF

    Henry played like Rooney does imo. Plays the withdrawn CF role, up front a lot behind the lines, but also likes to drop deep and drop to the left, although not as much as Henry does.

    Ronaldo plays in that right wing. He however has utterly redefined the position (although I'd argue it's a lot like how Best used to play right wing)

    He's not part of a front 3, he's part of a front 4. He does have defensive duties in theory, which he does when Neville is in the team, and gets given out to when he doesn't do it when it matters, like the Arsenal game this year. In the other big games he's played this year, he's had to do a lot more tracking back.

    That said, three or four times this season, especially towards the ends of games, although once or twice starting, Ronaldo played as the CF in that formation, alongside Rooney who played the AMC role.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Also

    1st place to 5th place

    Arsenal - 1
    Everton - 2 [1 pen]

    6th place to 10th place

    Villa - 1
    Blackburn - 2
    West ham - 1
    Portsmouth - 2

    11th place to 15th place

    Spurs - 2 [1 pen]
    Sunderland - 1
    Newcastle - 5

    16th place to 20th

    Fulham - 2
    Reading - 1
    Brum - 1
    Wigan - 2
    Derby - 1 [1 pen]

    CL Teams:

    Kiev - 3 [1 pen]
    Lisbon - 2

    1st place to 5th place - 3 [1 pen]
    6th place to 10th place - 6
    11th place to 15th place - 8 [1 pen]
    16th place to 20th place - 7 [1 pen]
    CL - 5 [1 pen]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    So whan we conclude?
    Ronaldo doesn't score more penalties than anybody else really, and doesn't score them against bad teams more than good teams.
    There isn't a huge difference between the amount of goals he scores from the 6th to the 20th place, nor the CL.
    There is a difference between the top 1st and 5th and the rest, but not imo a huge difference that would exist with any other player.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,485 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    ronaldo has also scored just 3 goals in something like 30 games against Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. hasn't scored against Liverpool or Chelsea yet in nearly 20 games


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,404 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    I think these arguments are kinda pointless, seems a guy cant be fantastic unless he does absolutely everything possible? If it was a case that he had never scored against any top team then fair enough, but he has, so now he gets punished for not scoring against all of them. In any big games, the big players are double or triple marked, leaving space for other players. In most cases these players dont just disappear, they take up a lot of the oppositions resources.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭herbieflowers


    it's typical that most threads on this forum turn into endless arguments on the merits of Ronaldo's footballing abilities, yawn.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭Savman


    It really is quite simple. As already stated:
    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    In any big games, the big players are double or triple marked, leaving space for other players. In most cases these players dont just disappear, they take up a lot of the oppositions resources.
    Saves me the bother of typing it :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    That Ronaldo didn't score against City this season either, just so ya know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,485 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    this thread started off by saying most of yossi benayouns goals don't count because he scored them against fenerbahce and the like, you guys can't have it both ways ;)

    The big clubs don't triple mark ronaldo that would just be playing into man utds hands, who would mark giggs, rooney, saha and tevez then :rolleyes: arbelo was assigned to him last game at anfield but he didn't man mark him and still ronaldo didn't get a kick. If he doesn't get the ball he can't score so the big teams limit the amount of ball he gets, simple really.

    the same argument can be made about torres and i have seen it made in numerous different forums, the guy has barely scored away from home yet and until he does regularly or starts popping them in against the top 3 (either or for me) the jury will still be out. In spain he got slated for not scoring against Real in matches


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Average-Ro


    Scored a few against Barcelona though didn't he?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭herbieflowers


    triple mark would be an exagerration, but it makes sense. You over-mark the player who can do the most damage, thus limiting his POWERS OF DESTRUCTION! Or something...but I'd disagree with you anyway, when you play against top sides you're not going to get as much space anyway, and that cpunts for all the players, not just a Ronaldo or a Torres, chances thus are few and far between, and oftentimes such 'big' games are decided from a bit of luck, a set-piece, or a moment of individual brilliance.


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