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France and their great players

  • 01-03-2008 01:55PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭


    It seems over the past 15 - 20 years France has produced some brilliant footballers.

    Did the French FA implement a new youth policy or something like that which we could copy in Ireland?


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Large working class, large immigrant population (who in general tend to be better than normal people), huge population, colonies to pick from, active youth programs, strong national league that the top players leave once they get good enough to allow new players to break through


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    The French have an excellent national football academy at Clairefontaine where a lot of their youth stars go through. They also iirc spend the most per capita on sports facilites in the world. Think it was somewhere around €150 per head per year, while in England it was about €70. I may have plucked those figures out of my ass though!:D

    I think the immigrant population from Africa and the unequal distribution of wealth play a big role in the development of players from an early age aswell.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Raekwon


    dublindude wrote: »
    It seems over the past 15 - 20 years France has produced some brilliant footballers.

    Did the French FA implement a new youth policy or something like that which we could copy in Ireland?

    I don't think it is as easy as just implementing a new youth policy.

    In regards to France, they have had some amazing players over the years but alot of their players (since the 80's) have been mostly of foreign origin, just like Ireland. Here is a short list of a couple them:

    Patrick Vieira (Senegal)
    Patrice Evra (Senegal)
    Marcel Desailly (Ghana)
    Jean Tigana (Mali)
    Basile Boli (The Ivory Coast)
    Claude Makélélé (Zaire)
    Rio Mavuba (Zaire)
    Steve Mandanda (Zaire)
    Jean-Alain Boumsong (Cameroon)
    Florent Malouda (Guyane)
    Frédéric Piquionne (New Caledonia)
    Luis Fernández (Spain)
    Jocelyn Angloma (Guadeloupe)

    Plus if I was too get really technical I could say that Zinedine Zidane is Algerian & Thierry Henry is from the West Indies. But they were both born in France :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Indeed, they are the New Zealand of football. That said, they do the same thing in football :) But it's fine for them, because their national identity isn't tied up with a geographical idea, it's more to do with an idea of citizenship. That's why they'd have no problem if Kaka declared for France, while people in Ireland would still question it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    PHB wrote: »
    Indeed, they are the New Zealand of football.

    After the last RWC they're also the New Zealand of rugby.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Raekwon wrote: »
    Plus if I was too get really technical I could say that Zinedine Zidane is Algerian & Thierry Henry is from the West Indies. But they were both born in France :)

    He's not Algerian, only his parents are. He was born and raised in Marseille.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Raekwon


    Xavi6 wrote:
    He's not Algerian, only his parents are. He was born and raised in Marseille.

    Yeah I know. I said he was born in France.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    PHB wrote: »
    strong national league
    dum-didum...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    DesF wrote: »
    dum-didum...

    sorry des, what is your point here?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    sorry des, what is your point here?

    We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Stekelly wrote: »
    We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D

    We'd certainly have a better chance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    We'd certainly have a better chance.

    How many countries with populations of in and around 4million have even come close?(probably even moreso sonce all countries started entering)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Stekelly wrote: »
    We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D

    We might have a better chance if he became a consumer as well as a fan :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    sorry des, what is your point here?
    Hello :)
    Stekelly wrote: »
    We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D
    yadda yadd.

    The question was asked...
    Did the French FA implement a new youth policy or something like that which we could copy in Ireland?

    PHB then mentioned that
    Large working class, large immigrant population (who in general tend to be better than normal people), huge population, colonies to pick from, active youth programs, strong national league that the top players leave once they get good enough to allow new players to break through

    I agree with him, a strong national league is imperative if Ireland are to progress from the current pile of shíte it is.

    Get the players staying in the league until they are 22/23 (Just like Doyle, if Reading go down, he'll be back in the PL within a year, either with them or another club (Sunderland?)), make it attractive for them to stay, make them think that staying here is better for their development than to go and play reserve games in England/Scotland.

    IF the eL was stronger, it couldn't but have a positive impact on the national team.

    That is my point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Stekelly wrote: »
    How many countries with populations of in and around 4million have even come close?(probably even moreso sonce all countries started entering)

    I don't necessarily think we need all our players to play in our own league foe their entire careers but look at the likes of Croatia, Norway, Sweden etc, international teams I would consider around our level. The players all gain experience in their home leagues before deciding to go abroad. They play first team football in a good standard league. Many of them also play together which stands them to good stead for when they step up to the national team.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    Happy birthday Xavi6.

    As for the french, vavavoom and headbutter are world class alright.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Considering we all support English teams, watch English teams on TV, and have hundreds of Irish players in the English leagues, couldn't you say the English leagues are kind of our own leagues too?

    They just happen to be in a different country, but all our best players play there...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    Sherifu wrote: »
    headbutter

    Is that like headcheese?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Sherifu wrote: »
    Happy birthday Xavi6.

    :) Cheers mate. Another year older...etc etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    dublindude wrote: »
    , but all our best players play there...


    and a few of our worst.:D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    dublindude wrote: »
    Considering we all support English teams, watch English teams on TV, and have hundreds of Irish players in the English leagues,
    What?

    Is this a wind-up or what?

    Are you serious?

    I support Shelbourne, they play in the League of Ireland, ever heard of it?

    Seemingly not...
    dublindude wrote: »
    couldn't you say the English leagues are kind of our own leagues too?
    :rolleyes:

    Er no.

    Ireland has a league to call it's own.

    My jesus, this attitude is seriously bewildering.
    dublindude wrote: »
    They just happen to be in a different country, but all our best players play there...
    Yeah, a different country.

    Hence, NOT Irish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    No, you're misunderstanding and over simplifying.

    Your argument is our solution to our poor national team is a strong national league.

    I am saying since the vast majority of our best players already play in a strong league from a very young age, your argument holds no merit. Moving the English league and the Irish players within that league to Ireland would make no difference to our national team.

    Apologies for assuming you supported an English team, although it's a fair statement to make considering you watch and comment on English soccer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    DesF wrote: »
    Hello :)



    IF the eL was stronger, it couldn't but have a positive impact on the national team.

    That is my point.

    errm, not really.most of the top french players dont play in france and indeed, the french league is not near the top in europe. what we need, is the top irish player playing in england, not in ireland. the premiership is the yardstick, blame brian kerr, blame delaney, blame who ever the ***k u want, but at the end of the day, the el has no and never will have, an impact on the International team.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    errm, not really.most of the top french players dont play in france and indeed, the french league is not near the top in europe.

    Same for Brazil.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    dublindude wrote: »
    Your argument is our solution to our poor national team is a strong national league.
    Well, allow me to clarify.

    My argument, and others here I might add, is that a strong National League (like, say, Norway, Sweden (countries where the Premiership is equally as popular by the way)) would go some way to improving our national team. I'm not suggesting it would solve all problems, but would play a part.

    Thousands of kids go over every year, how many make it?

    A tiny minority of those that come back don't go into the national league.

    An academy, in tandem with a strong national league, is what is needed.
    dublindude wrote: »
    I am saying since the vast majority of our best players already play in a strong league from a very young age, your argument holds no merit. Moving the English league and the Irish players within that league to Ireland would make no difference to our national team.
    I never said we should move the English league over here.

    What? :confused:
    dublindude wrote: »
    Apologies for assuming you supported an English team, although it's a fair statement to make considering you watch and comment on English soccer.
    Fairynuff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    DesF wrote: »
    I never said we should move the English league over here.

    What? :confused:

    What I'm saying is the English league, with all its Irish players, just happens to be in England. If we moved it to Ireland, i.e. have a strong national league here, it wouldn't improve our national team.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    errm, not really.most of the top french players dont play in france and indeed, the french league is not near the top in europe. what we need, is the top irish player playing in england, not in ireland. the premiership is the yardstick,
    But, the better French players don't leave France at 14/15/16 either.

    Benzema, Ben Arfa. Recognise them names? Young French players, playing in France.

    Where did Evra come from? At what age?

    What age did Zidane leave France?
    the french league is not near the top in europe.
    Last time I checked there was a French team in the CL QF, and ran a Premiership team close last week.

    Top Level : Serie A, La Liga, EPL
    Second Level : Bundesliga, Portugal,
    Third Level : Eredivisie, Ligue 1

    In European leagues standard, I would certainly have France in the top 10.
    blame brian kerr, blame delaney, blame who ever the ***k u want, but at the end of the day, the el has no and never will have, an impact on the International team.
    Lie.
    dublindude wrote: »
    Same for Brazil.
    Brazilian players play in the Brazilian league, then leave for europe when they are good enough.

    Look at any Brazilian player, you'll see that they have a number of appearances for Brazilian clubs, perhaps even a couple of seasons worth, before coming to Europe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    You bastards, I'm after forgetting to turn on The Premiership :mad::mad:

    What have I missed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    DesF wrote: »
    You bastards, I'm after forgetting to turn on The Premiership :mad::mad:

    What have I missed?

    You've missed the Villas of Aston vs the Nils of Arse in a war to settle the score.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    what we need, is the top irish player playing in england, not in ireland.
    I never once said the top Irish players shouldn't be playing abroad, where did you get that from?

    I'm saying that if we have a strong national league, the players will stay and develop (like they do in France, Norway, Sweden, Holland (do the top Dutch players play in Holland?)), then move abroad, when they are good enough.

    There are a few reasons for this.

    1. Talented players won't be going over only to be told "not good enough, seeya", then just drop out of the game completely once they come home.

    2. It's always better to be playing in competitive games than in reserve games, this is why the top EPL sides send players on loan to the lower leagues. Keep the Irish youngsters here, playing in the eL, then when they are good enough, happy days, let them go. I've absolutely no issue with that (Kevin Doyle for example).

    3. If the players are kept here to be sold later, more money in the League = better league.


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