Same Sex Couple & Mortgage Protection

XJR

Anyone know what the state of affairs is when a same sex couple apply for mortgage protection ?

Are there loadings test etc and does anyone know of a company that is specifically aimed at or treats this market favourably?

unclebill98

Should just be treated as a joint application. I don't think being married has any effect on the price you'll pay.

XJR

Probably should be but I'm thinking more in terms of HIV tests increased premium etc.

I've just got the application and seems to me theres a lot of questions I don't really want to answers as they'll raise questions.

unclebill98

Well there lies your problem.

If you do not fully disclose everything at the start that is asked for on the application then your policy is not worth the paper its written on.

Lets say 20 years down the line you try and claim, they find out you held something vital back when you applied for the product, your claim is null and void and you will not be entitled to a refund for any of the 20 years worth of premium.

Simple.

XJR

unclebill98 wrote: »

Well there lies your problem.

If you do not fully disclose everything at the start that is asked for on the application then your policy is not worth the paper its written on.

Lets say 20 years down the line you try and claim, they find out you held something vital back when you applied for the product, your claim is null and void and you will not be entitled to a refund for any of the 20 years worth of premium.

Simple.

Actually not its not simple at all. I am very aware of how the insurance industry works and the necessity for disclosure.

However the fact that I may or may not have had a HIV test so bloody what ? Does that show anything other than a responsible individual ?

As a gay male I actually find the questions intrusive in the extreme. Will the fact that it is two gay males applying lead to an increased premium? if so why?

I don't know if you are gay or straight and frankly it doesn't matter to me, but as an individual who came out in the 80s and lived through the 90s. There are a number of questions and issues here that are aimed specifically at gay men and it concerns me.

Simple

unclebill98

XJR wrote: »

Actually not its not simple at all. I am very aware of how the insurance industry works and the necessity for disclosure.

However the fact that I may or may not have had a HIV test so bloody what ? Does that show anything other than a responsible individual ?

As a gay male I actually find the questions intrusive in the extreme. Will the fact that it is two gay males applying lead to an increased premium? if so why?

I don't know if you are gay or straight and frankly it doesn't matter to me, but as an individual who came out in the 80s and lived through the 90s. There are a number of questions and issues here that are aimed specifically at gay men and it concerns me.

Simple

I totally agree with you.

I've had home insurance loaded because of the health of a relation, I'm fine....but in the eyes of the insurance company I've small chance of getting the same illness. I tried many diff companies to try and get cheaper but there all the same.

Your right about the HIV test, your being responsible and your getting hammered for it.

In the end of the day the insurance company make a choice based on the answers given. I really doubt that the fact you took an HIV test is not going to affect your application. Its either going to be,

A: He is ok, do not load policy.

B: His life style warrented the test, do load policy.

I am pretty sure no insurance company underwriter will spill the beans on that one or does to gay men get diff treatment.

Its a tuff one. Will you be honest or not...

broker2008

Merely taking a HIV Test does not warrant disclosure of taking same, as the wording of the HIV question has changed in recent years to only having to answer yes to taking a test if (and only if) the test proved to be positive. This would be the case for at least 8 companies. Therefore precautionary testing is a good thing not only for the person taking the test but also for the insurance company. If the result is positive you have to tell them and it is negative you don't - and it saves them in having to get a test because the most recent one was negative. The thinking behind this has relaxed in recent years

Having a test for STD's is another matter however and the only 2 companies that don't specifically ask the question are Eagle Star and Irish Life. In many instances where this question is answered in the positive, a HIV test will usually be required irrespective or sex or sexuality but on the basis that the STD was sexually transmitted. Some companies, not all, could look for a lifestyle questionnaire based on a yes answer.

Premiums would tend not be loaded by virtue of one's sexuality unless there were reasons to believe that one's life expectancy was going to be effected (for the worse) which could be for separate and additional factors.

Have a look at the Eagle Star proposal and see if you can answer all the questions truthfully without having to disclose your sexuality. They would have competitive premiums also.

Hope this helps.

XJR

broker2008 wrote: »

Merely taking a HIV Test does not warrant disclosure of taking same, as the wording of the HIV question has changed in recent years to only having to answer yes to taking a test if (and only if) the test proved to be positive. This would be the case for at least 8 companies. Therefore precautionary testing is a good thing not only for the person taking the test but also for the insurance company. If the result is positive you have to tell them and it is negative you don't - and it saves them in having to get a test because the most recent one was negative. The thinking behind this has relaxed in recent years

Having a test for STD's is another matter however and the only 2 companies that don't specifically ask the question are Eagle Star and Irish Life. In many instances where this question is answered in the positive, a HIV test will usually be required irrespective or sex or sexuality but on the basis that the STD was sexually transmitted. Some companies, not all, could look for a lifestyle questionnaire based on a yes answer.

Premiums would tend not be loaded by virtue of one's sexuality unless there were reasons to believe that one's life expectancy was going to be effected (for the worse) which could be for separate and additional factors.

Have a look at the Eagle Star proposal and see if you can answer all the questions truthfully without having to disclose your sexuality. They would have competitive premiums also.

Hope this helps.

Cheers for the clarification, I've checked the question and it asks it "your've evert testedpositive for HIV or Hep B or C or had a blood test for any STD".

I'm probably worrying unduly - it's not like we're the first queers to buy a house together.

kaiser sauze

XJR wrote: »

As a gay male I actually find the questions intrusive in the extreme. Will the fact that it is two gay males applying lead to an increased premium? if so why?

I don't know if you are gay or straight and frankly it doesn't matter to me, but as an individual who came out in the 80s and lived through the 90s. There are a number of questions and issues here that are aimed specifically at gay men and it concerns me.

Simple

You need not worry, your sexuality is no factor in the company's choice of premium or decision to cover you (both).

I'm not sure I understand the second quoted paragraph. Do you feel that the questions on the application form are aimed at gays specifically? If so, nothing could be further from the truth.

XJR

kaiser sauze wrote: »

You need not worry, your sexuality is no factor in the company's choice of premium or decision to cover you (both).

I'm not sure I understand the second quoted paragraph. Do you feel that the questions on the application form are aimed at gays specifically? If so, nothing could be further from the truth.

I suppose that I do feel the question is another way of asking the question they're not allowed ask any more. I don't have figures but I would guess mor gay men take HIV / STD test than straight men.

But then perhaps I'm being overly sensitive and worrying too much as I say we're not the first two to buy a house together.

MortgageBroker

the way i recall is that the question is 'have you recently tested positive for HIV/hep/whatever or are you awaiting the results of any such test'.

Insurance companies do actually have the right to discriminate and they do it on the basis of their actuarial statistics. this can include the country you were born in or if you smoke etc. I get a loading myself, this is where they charge extra because you are considered a greater risk.

getting a HIV test is something that triggers an insurance companies suspicion (if you awaiting the results then a 'yes' to that question would start the process), granted, its a responsible thing to do etc. I don't disagree, however, unless you thought you had exposure to HIV you wouldn't get the test, any more that i'm going to go get a test for something i don't think i have.

the best thing to do is answer honestly, insurance companies are not out to shaft you because of your sexuality they are there to shaft you if you lie on the proposal and a claim is made where that lie may have changed the original decision they made. So just tell the truth, if they have any doubts they will likely do a medical and it all comes out in the wash anyways.

kaiser sauze

XJR wrote: »

I suppose that I do feel the question is another way of asking the question they're not allowed ask any more. I don't have figures but I would guess mor gay men take HIV / STD test than straight men.

But then perhaps I'm being overly sensitive and worrying too much as I say we're not the first two to buy a house together.

As regards the stats for taking the tests in question, I don't have them either, but you're likely right.

However, it is simply not the case that the companies have this placed in there as a tool to out gays and place a loading on their premium. The query relates as much to bi-sexual, lesbian and heterosexual individuals, too, irrespective of whether they are more likely to take the test or not.

Lawdie

XJR wrote: »

we're not the first two to buy a house together.

Take out two separate policies naming each other.

unclebill98

I don't think you can have 2 policies covering the one life.

XJR

Well as it turns out its all academic. While the question may have been on the agenda we weren't asked and like a fag in the US military we didn't tell. We have the cover and are signing for the House in a weeks time, should get the keys soon after.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

that's brilliant news! enjoy moving in...

ixoy

Good to hear! It's a topic that's of great interest to me and very relevant to my (our ) plans for the nearish future