All 08 cars may have road tax done on emissions.

E92

That's what I heard on Morning Ireland this morning.

The Government have decided to backdate the road tax system so that all 08 cars will have road tax done on emissions.

Wouldn't like to be the people who didn't read the VRT threads and went away and bought a petrol model now instead of waiting and get a diesel in 4 months time. Especially wouldn't like to be anyone who bought a Tiguan 1.4 TSI or a Mazda RX-8.

On the plus side, anyone who bought diesels stands to gain, as do all the people who bought BMWs with EfficientDynamics.

I think the Government have thrown the SIMI a huge lifeline(they've throw a lot of people lifelines too), though I bet anyone who was thinking of buying some of those FFV cars will think twice about it now. On the other hand, if you want a hybrid Lexus or hybrid anything, you can now have the best of both worlds if you get one before July.

EDIT: I now understand that it is a kind of 2 tier system, if you buy an 08 car before July, then you get the option to tax your car on CO2 or on engine size, whichever is the lowest, but all cars after July will definitely be taxed on CO2. The title of this thread has been changed for this reason.

j2dab

What about 2nd hand cars VRT'd since January? and 2nd hand cars VRT'd between now and July? Are they sticking to the original July 1st plan?

MuffinsDa

That wouldn't be possible, as people registered those cars in the knowledge of tax being certain amount and can't be punished with a backdating of the law. Perhaps the government is going to give people an option to do so, which will be fair thing to do.

Wossack

Im hoping for the opt-in thing too....

bit late in the day to go moving the goalposts

Guy:Incognito

I'm sure what they meant was that all cars registered in 08 would have the option of going for the new rates. Bit of sloppy journalism maybe?

EDIT, just saw muffins post.

j2dab wrote: »

What about 2nd hand cars VRT'd since January? and 2nd hand cars VRT'd between now and July? Are they sticking to the original July 1st plan?

I cant imagine them issueing refund cheques anyway. They might send out bills though to those owing more.:D

King Kelly

Quote from SIMI

* All new cars sold from January to July will qualify for the new
emissions based Road Tax rates on first renewal where these are lower.
* From July all used cars except those with emissions over 225g/km
will be Road Taxed in exactly the same way as the equivalent Irish used car of the same age. We understand that those with emissions over 225g/km will be subject to the new emissions based Road Tax regardless of their age.

Seems a fair compromise for both the industry and the consumer.

zac8

all cars with emissions over 225, regardless of age, will be subject to the new emissions based road tax.

smcgiff

Agh - Paid for a years road tax 10 days ago. Would have been better off only getting six months tax. Damn me for giving money to the government!

Edit. Which means (I think) - If you've a car that benefits from the new rates and you've to pay for your road tax you'd be better off paying for the period closest to beyond 01/07/08.

MuffinsDa

sorry could someone elaborate on the second point?

* From July all used cars except those with emissions over 225g/km
will be Road Taxed in exactly the same way as the equivalent Irish used car of the same age. We understand that those with emissions over 225g/km will be subject to the new emissions based Road Tax regardless of their age.

What effect would it have on the already registered cars, i.e. 01-02 cars? They continue to be taxed under current (cc based) system, right?

Padraig Mor

King Kelly wrote: »

* From July all used cars except those with emissions over 225g/km
will be Road Taxed in exactly the same way as the equivalent Irish used car of the same age. We understand that those with emissions over 225g/km will be subject to the new emissions based Road Tax regardless of their age.
.

I presume this applies to imports only?

smcgiff

MuffinsDa wrote: »

sorry could someone elaborate on the second point?



What effect would it have on the already registered cars, i.e. 01-02 cars? They continue to be taxed under current (cc based) system, right?

If they're over 225g/km they pay the new rate, afaik. Probably after their next NCT test if its not already known what CO2 level it has i.e. older cars.

MuffinsDa

If that's a case that's a very good decision: prevents a two-tier used car market, and means us 'enthusiasts' can still bring the odd 'nice' used car in without having to pay €2000 a year for it - and in the meantime discourages the import of cars that are too polluting!

declanoneill

Anyone got some links? It seems a little confusing. Does that mean if I sell my car, which puts out more the 225g/km, that whoever buys the car from me will have to pay tax under the new system (in this case 2k)?

Stephen

Have they mentioned anything about allowing people with older cars to opt-in to the co2 system? My 07 Civic would cost less than half what I'm paying to tax it at the moment under the new rules.

BNC

This is all very confusing...Here's another question!

If I import a second hand planet killer before July am I now going to be hit with the €2k tax and, if not, are they saying that on the next renewal date the 2k will be due?

smcgiff

BNC wrote: »

If I import a second hand planet killer before July am I now going to be hit with the €2k tax and, if not, are they saying that on the next renewal date the 2k will be due?

You'll definitely be paying it on renewal post July 08.

Marcus.Aurelius

Can someone please clarify if all cars which emit more than 225 g CO2 /k will pay the new rates, or if this will only apply to 08 registered cars????

Please???

MuffinsDa

maoleary wrote: »

Can someone please clarify if all cars which emit more than 225 g CO2 /k will pay the new rates, or if this will only apply to 08 registered cars????

Please???

My understanding is that it would apply to newly registered cars, 08 or whatever.

So if you already have a planet-killer, you'll continue to pay what you are paying.

If you bring a new planet-killer in after july ( > 225 co2), then you'll be hit with €2000 p.a. Otherwise you'll pay the same prices as currently registered planet-hurters (i.e. high but not > 225 co2)

Ferris

As an about turn this ranks pretty high imo if this is now policy. Why buy a new green car when you can buy a nearly new, inefficient one, in the UK and avoid the high tax bill.

I was going to bring in a 120d because it was a low poluter, now i might as well import a 120i or even a 130i. The VRT will be higher for sure but the resultant road tax will be lower than original Irish cars (for the 130i at least). I think this is a massive loophole and has been done to protect the SIMI from people importing low emissions cars from the UK.

Also way to go to confuse the public even further - I thought Gormley had balls, now he's just another SIMI lackey.

zac8

MuffinsDa wrote: »

My understanding is that it would apply to newly registered cars, 08 or whatever.

So if you already have a planet-killer, you'll continue to pay what you are paying.

If you bring a new planet-killer in after july ( > 225 co2), then you'll be hit with €2000 p.a. Otherwise you'll pay the same prices as currently registered planet-hurters (i.e. high but not > 225 co2)

the wording in SIMI's press release would suggest ALL >225 will pay 2k. this is a proposed amendment but they seem confident it will be implemented.

MuffinsDa

zac8 wrote: »

the wording in SIMI's press release would suggest ALL >225 will pay 2k. this is a proposed amendment but they seem confident it will be implemented.

That's BS, they couldn't get away with that...

Padraig Mor

zac8 wrote: »

the wording in SIMI's press release would suggest ALL >225 will pay 2k. this is a proposed amendment but they seem confident it will be implemented.

TBH I'd say the press release is just worded badly. I don't see how they could change over to €2000/yr for cars already registered. I reckon what they mean is that all used cars imported after July will be taxed the same as Irish cars of the same age (i.e. based on cc) - unless they're over 225g/km. I guess it makes sense from the SIMI cartel viewpoint: someone importing a nice 07 reg BMW 530D from the UK will now have to pay €1300/yr road tax (or whatever it is) rather than a much lower rate under the CO2 system, i.e. "Irish" car prices will not be undercut by UK imports. Price protection back in business!

kkibos

MOTORISTS WHO have bought low CO2 emission cars from January 1st this year will be able to qualify for reduced motor taxes, under plans to be confirmed in the coming days by Minister for the Environment, John Gormley.
In the Budget, the Government proposed a new motor tax system to come into force from June 1st, where lower emission cars would pay less road tax than their high carbon dioxide-emitting counterparts.
The move had been criticised repeatedly by the motor industry, and the Automobile Association, as well as by a number of TDs during a Dáil debate yesterday on the legislation to implement the changes, because it apparently would not benefit people who had tried to be "green" already. However, it is understood Mr Gormley will respond to such criticism by introducing amendments at committee stage.
Under one such amendment, post-January 1st car purchasers will be able to "opt in" for the new lower motor taxes, but they are unlikely to be able to get a refund on any taxes already paid.
Hinting that a change was imminent, Mr Gormley told the Dáil: "I have already examined many of the issues raised... I believe there is some scope to bring forward amendments on committee stage to address some of the concerns expressed." The changes will save new owners of the Lexus GS450h petrol-electric hybrid - a car popular with some Government Ministers - €891 a year, while those who bought Toyota's Prius since January 1st will see their motor tax fall from €428 to €100.
Similarly, the motor tax due on the Fiat Grande Punto 1.2, which currently stands at €275, will drop to €100, while motorists who bought a Skoda Octavia 1.9-litre TDI will pay just €150 a year, rather than €560 as at present. Those driving a 2008 Ford Fiesta 1.3 will pay €290 a year when they next renew their tax, and 2008 Renault Clio 1.3 owners will pay €150 rather than the €298 tariff currently imposed by the Department of the Environment.
The compromise formula to be announced by Mr Gormley will also ensure that lower-emission cars imported from the United Kingdom will be able to qualify for lower motor taxes, as long as they were sold after January 1st.

King Kelly

Ferris wrote: »

As an about turn this ranks pretty high imo if this is now policy. Why buy a new green car when you can buy a nearly new, inefficient one, in the UK and avoid the high tax bill.

I was going to bring in a 120d because it was a low poluter, now i might as well import a 120i or even a 130i. The VRT will be higher for sure but the resultant road tax will be lower than original Irish cars (for the 130i at least). I think this is a massive loophole and has been done to protect the SIMI from people importing low emissions cars from the UK.

Also way to go to confuse the public even further - I thought Gormley had balls, now he's just another SIMI lackey.

I think the SIMI press release is their understanding of what the minister proposes - the exact details won't be revealed until the bill is put before the Dail.

From my reading of it ite seems to be addressing the exact points you are complaining about. -

"From July all used cars (except those with emissions over 225g/km)
will be Road Taxed in exactly the same way as the equivalent Irish used car of the same age."

So whether the car is imported from the UK or an Irish S/H car they will both have the same road tax charge.

The SIMI, as a representative body of the motor industry, have quite rightly tried to ensure that their members are not put at an uncompetitive position compared to UK imports. This is just levelling the playing field. If you import a used car your cost will be no higher or lower than for an irish reg'd car.

MuffinsDa

King Kelly wrote: »

The SIMI, as a representative body of the motor industry, have quite rightly tried to ensure that their members are not put at an uncompetitive position compared to UK imports. This is just levelling the playing field. If you import a used car your cost will be no higher or lower than for an irish reg'd car.

Yep, it makes sense that way, and addresses the anomaly.
(never thought I could possibly agree with something that SIMI agrees with too, but there you go!)

Lex Luthor

kkibos wrote: »

MOTORISTS WHO have bought low CO2 emission cars from January 1st this year will be able to qualify for reduced motor taxes, under plans to be confirmed in the coming days by Minister for the Environment, John Gormley.

So does this just apply to new cars bought from Jan 1st or any car bought from Jan 1st? It's not very clear.

I'll be having to tax the GT as soon as I get back my new certificate and under the new regime I would have had to pay €590/year tax as its supposedly priced on the engine size system.

But am I correct in saying that the statement above reads that since I bought after Jan 1st, I should be paying tax on the CO2 system which will only be €430?

Also, take this for an example...
A person has a 2litre diesel car about 3-4 yrs old paying currently €539/year and due an increase to €590/year pay more road tax as someone with the same car/model/co2 emissions just because the other person has a new one?

Ferris

Yeah kkibos post cleared that up. Although it will only count for Irish cars bought in '08. What needs to be cleared up is will pre '08 cars imported from England be taxed on the old system or on the new one.

- like most people.

siralfalot

anyone got any links?

I can't find anything new from the Gov on this issue?

Stephen

So those of us who bought efficient cars before 2008 will continue to get shafted? Great.

Lex Luthor

Stephen wrote: »

So those of us who bought efficient cars before 2008 will continue to get shafted? Great.

I can't see this happening. Some johnny down the road is going to say why should he get penalized for driving around his '07 1.9TDi Passat when his next door neighbour is paying less tax for his '08 1.9TDi Passat.

I can see a mutiny

MuffinsDa

Because he bought the car in 07 knowing that the tax he has to pays is zzz, and he will continue to pay zzz (plus a reasonable 9% increase) (I fall in that actegory BTW). It sounds fair to me.

Lex Luthor

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Because he bought the car in 07 knowing that the tax he has to pays is zzz, and he will continue to pay zzz (plus a reasonable 9% increase) (I fall in that actegory BTW). It sounds fair to me.

it might sound fair, but that's not to say it's right

smcgiff

Lex Luthor wrote: »

it might sound fair, but that's not to say it's right

As a 08 driver I'd say it's bollix!

No way should a 08 car be cheaper to tax than, say, the exact same 07 model.

Riskymove

smcgiff wrote: »

As a 08 driver I'd say it's bollix!

No way should a 08 car be cheaper to tax than, say, the exact same 07 model.

but thats what is going to be the case from July......in fact until they made this change it would have been worse, a car (with low emmissions for example) bought in July 08 would have been cheaper to tax than a June 08 and so on..


as for a "mutiny"!!

If people are not having a "mutiny" over health services, housing prices, etc etc they are hardly going to over a couple of hundred euro a year

what I find laughable is that they bring this in so late, after most people who ordered a Jan/Feb 08 car have already taxed...such people must be really upset over that!

WHITE_P

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0227/morningireland_av.html?2342319,242,209

This just smacks of more government incompentence.

I recently ordered a new car which under the current scheme will be cheaper to Tax than the proposed CO2 scheme (€320 v's €600), so I can't see how this is fair.

My only resason for changing my car is, I now need to accommodate 3 child seats, and as I haven't put big milage on my current car I couldn't see any point in paying extra for the diesel version.

Will the car buying public get the choice, as to which scheme they tax their car under before July 1st, or will they just force the new scheme on us from now.

vectra

As a 08 1.4tdi driver i think it could be put down as discrimination :mad:

SuprSi

Argh I'm still confused!! If I bought a new 3.2 V6 before July, I was under the impression that it would still be taxed using the current tax rates. Is this now not the case? So the above car bought before July will still be taxed post-July rates?

mvpr

Can E92 or somebody clarify this point?

I had planned on importing a 2005 1.6 tdci Focus from the UK in July to avail of the lower VRT and Road Tax rates.

Is the Government now saying that this car will face the same Road Tax rates as its equivalent that was 1st registered in Ireland?

Would it matter if I imported it before July? It would appear, if the above is correct, that there is no point in waiting til July...

dessierb

Ok. I am confused. I bought a cracker 2.2 icdi Honda Accord yesterday in N Ireland. Its a may 07. Will I now qualify for the 20% VRT and the €290 Road Tax OR am I going to be hit with the old 30% VRT and €700+ road tax. Can anyone clear this up, please. My intention was to park it until July and get the New VRT rates.
Thanks

alexmcred

dessierb wrote: »

Ok. I am confused. I bought a cracker 2.2 icdi Honda Accord yesterday in N Ireland. Its a may 07. Will I now qualify for the 20% VRT and the €290 Road Tax OR am I going to be hit with the old 30% VRT and €700+ road tax. Can anyone clear this up, please. My intention was to park it until July and get the New VRT rates.
Thanks

You will fall under the old rates.
Any new car purchased from January 2008 will have the option to switch to the new system if it benefits you to do so. Any car producing more than 225 in this period are going up to the max i.e. 2000.

Henry Ford III

Why the need to change? We were getting ready for a big change come July and now this unneccesary complication.

Lex Luthor

so why should the people who can afford to buy 08 cars be allowed to pay less tax than those who can't afford to change, but could still be driving around in identical cars?

alexmcred

Fear of loosing votes I would imagine or else it just suits them and we know what regard they have for the public. I can see them forcing more people onto the new system when they start loosing money through the road tax system

3ps

what if you are importing a UIK car next week that has no CO2 cert?

- will it be on old or new (2000) rate
- what about it's next renewal?

smcgiff

3ps wrote: »

what if you are importing a UIK car next week that has no CO2 cert?

- will it be on old or new (2000) rate
- what about it's next renewal?

I thought if a car did not have a CO2 cert it w(c)ould be charged at the hightest rate. :eek:

3ps

yes, after July.... but now I'm asking is it still after July or the January just passed???
seems unfair if the latter, no?

mick.fr

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I presume this applies to imports only?

Why do you know any car been produced in Ireland?

vectra

Lex Luthor wrote: »

so why should the people who can afford to buy 08 cars be allowed to pay less tax than those who can't afford to change, but could still be driving around in identical cars?

Never assume someone is financially better off than you might be.
I for one would NOT have a new car outside my door only for
1) I dont Smoke
2) I dont Drink
3) I dont go on foreign holidays etc.
4) i dont hang around outside the Bookies.

in other words.
I live a very meagre lifestyle bu that is the way I like it
How often do you go out socialising etc ??

Steve

smcgiff wrote: »

If they're over 225g/km they pay the new rate, afaik. Probably after their next NCT test if its not already known what CO2 level it has i.e. older cars.

I'm pretty sure the NCT can't test what the g/km rating is, this requires extensive road testing over a combined urban & open road cycle.
The NCT measures the %CO2 at idle and high idle - this is not an indicator of g/km.

There are lots of cars on the road (including mine) that do not have the CO2 cert (wasn't this introduced in 2004?) therefore there is no data for them.

If I'm wrong, please correct me and point me to where I might find the data for a '97 FTO.

OutlawPete

zac8 wrote: »

all cars with emissions over 225, regardless of age, will be subject to the new emissions based road tax.

So I was right in that Rathdown thread afterall?? My mate with his Alfa 166 2.0 (230g/kg) will have to pay 2000 Euro??

That's was three days ago when I started that thread and my mate who has that Alfa told me that he had a radio interview that said ALL cars in Ireland will eventually be subject to Co2 based road tax.

Just like they started the NCT for ONLY some cars and now it's ALL cars.

I take back that apology. Just kidding

Nico

Steve

Nico22 wrote: »

So I was right in that Rathdown thread afterall?? My mate with his Alfa 166 2.0 (230g/kg) will have to pay 2000 Euro??

Yep looks like your thread came a day early.
The irony of it all.....

Let us know if your mate has any more precictions - I'll be off to paddy powers!