How fast wud u need to be a rugby winger or back?

corigi

I am thinking about taking up rugby and was wondering what type of time would it take to for a back to cover 100m? even a rough est also what type of times to cover a mile or km or even 5km?Just back in the gym so what to see where i need to be.cheers for any help in advance

dc69

corigi wrote: »

I am thinking about taking up rugby and was wondering what type of time would it take to for a back to cover 100m? even a rough est also what type of times to cover a mile or km or even 5km?Just back in the gym so what to see where i need to be.cheers for any help in advance

about 15 seconds and you should be ok,although we dont have any quick wingers in ireland ideally 13 or less

figs86

nobody runs 100m in straight line on rugby pitch, not really an applicable distance

the standard for Jake White's South African rugby team (which i hasten to add a lot of them allegedly failed to reach were :

outside backs : 40m in 5.10 secs
inside backes: 40m in 5.25
loose forwards: 40m in 5.30 secs
locks: 5.5 s
hookers: 5.5s
props: 5.65 s

if you measure up to even the props there i'd say you're doin well as theyre pro international athletes!

hope it helps, id be looking at distances less than the 100m for rugby as theyre far more relevant, off the mark acceleration etc

corigi

Yes cheers for help lads i did understand it wud be alot of short sprinting just wanted an idea of how fast they wud go atleast i have something to aim for now,just one more question what about stamina wise what type of time for 3k or 5k i can cover 3k in around 12mins probably 11mins at a push on a treadmill at a push how much fitter than that wud i need to be?i know it hards to gauge with all the stop start sprinting just looking for targets to aim for b4 august!

Stev_o

corigi wrote: »

Yes cheers for help lads i did understand it wud be alot of short sprinting just wanted an idea of how fast they wud go atleast i have something to aim for now,just one more question what about stamina wise what type of time for 3k or 5k i can cover 3k in around 12mins probably 11mins at a push on a treadmill at a push how much fitter than that wud i need to be?i know it hards to gauge with all the stop start sprinting just looking for targets to aim for b4 august!

What level are you playing at may i ask?


Ill give a guess and say your involved or hoping to be involved in J league.

But anyway there is 3 types of wingers [patent by me ]

1.Sprinter: Ie Sackey, Habanna, Varndell, Bowe,Howlett etc. Most common wingers have alot of pass to burn, excellent finishers with the ability to stay strong in the tackle. Arent considered jinky runners

2.Footwork Specialist. Have pace maybe not as much as group 1 but more rely on their ability to jink and get around players with footwork etc. Eg Shane Williams, Simpson Daniel, Jason Robinson

3.Powerhouse. Fairly big guys most common would be 6 ft 4 around 16/17 stone rely on their size and their speed to break tackles, get across the gain line and finish. Eg Lomu, Tuilagi, Vainikolo

corigi

yes ill be starting off in the j league and take it form there just dont wana turn up and realise im to slow im 6"2 but only 12stone so kinda stuck in between whether to build up muscle and weight or work with my speed?i ust to do 100m sprinting when younger but was a bit slow over first 20metres long legs! but afer 50m i wud have made it up i know when we have the ball i will able to sit slighty deeper and will already be moving be i get ball but if i have to turn in defence cud be a problem!

dc69

figs86 wrote: »

nobody runs 100m in straight line on rugby pitch, not really an applicable distance

the standard for Jake White's South African rugby team (which i hasten to add a lot of them allegedly failed to reach were :

outside backs : 40m in 5.10 secs
inside backes: 40m in 5.25
loose forwards: 40m in 5.30 secs
locks: 5.5 s
hookers: 5.5s
props: 5.65 s

if you measure up to even the props there i'd say you're doin well as theyre pro international athletes!

hope it helps, id be looking at distances less than the 100m for rugby as theyre far more relevant, off the mark acceleration etc

there some pretty ridiculous stats for jake whites team,the current record is 9.74 by asafa powell and alot of olympic sprinters would be getting around 10 but jake white wants his hookers to be running it in at around 12-13 seconds?stupid

habana runs it in around 10.3
tom varndell runs it at 10.9
i would say heymans runs it quiker than varndell and slower than habana but i dont know

thats a good question,how much slower than habana is heymens?,because he is the quickest white person ive seen in rugby,he is ridiculously fast

Goodluck2me

If you want to be top class i.e. provincial and above its no slower than 11.5 imo, for wings/FB.
For SH/Centre you`d get away with 13/13.5 from my experience.

I know Rob Kearney does it in about 12-12.5 as well so there are exceptions, (at least did the first year in College)

If I was you, the most effective training you could do is MSE - Multiple Sprint Endurance and all the top sides do it.
It involved running 40m at 90% speed, jogging 50m, sprinting 40 100%, jogging 50m, sprinting 40m 75%, jogging 50m, then finally sprinting 40m 100%

Do 5 sets of those, preferrable with a partner, and you will notice you speed and fitness creep up very quickly.
good luck with it!

Sqaull20

dc69 wrote: »

there some pretty ridiculous stats for jake whites team,the current record is 9.74 by asafa powell and alot of olympic sprinters would be getting around 10 but jake white wants his hookers to be running it in at around 12-13 seconds?stupid

habana runs it in around 10.3
tom varndell runs it at 10.9
i would say heymans runs it quiker than varndell and slower than habana but i dont know

thats a good question,how much slower than habana is heymens?,because he is the quickest white person ive seen in rugby,he is ridiculously fast

Habana 10.3

No one besides a specifically trained sprinter could run a 100 metres in sub 10.4secs, without specific training over a long period, something no rugby player,soccer player etc get...

American footballers are different,as they are hopped up on steroids, so they don't really count...

Habana would be going very well to even break under 11 secs,

Though, i thas to be said that times do vary a bit as the starting mechanisms and routines change...

Stuff like

If you want to be top class i.e. provincial and above its no slower than 11.5 imo, for wings/FB.
For SH/Centre you`d get away with 13/13.5 from my experience.
 

Is all rubbish....

You could have got exceptional athletes from various ball based sports like Habana,young Thierry Henry, young David Trick etc, out on the track one hour before a game and they would wouldnt be giving sub 11 sec speed...

louthandproud

corigi wrote: »

Yes cheers for help lads i did understand it wud be alot of short sprinting just wanted an idea of how fast they wud go atleast i have something to aim for now,just one more question what about stamina wise what type of time for 3k or 5k i can cover 3k in around 12mins probably 11mins at a push on a treadmill at a push how much fitter than that wud i need to be?i know it hards to gauge with all the stop start sprinting just looking for targets to aim for b4 august!

For junior rugby your running fitness sounds fine, however match fitness is different thing, also you'd be far better off working on the skills of the game before worrying about vital stats, passing, kicking, positioning and most importantly tackling correctly. Master these, keep the fitness up and worry about running stats when you make senior grade.

Santa Claus

figs86 wrote: »

outside backs : 40m in 5.10 secs
inside backes: 40m in 5.25
loose forwards: 40m in 5.30 secs
locks: 5.5 s
hookers: 5.5s
props: 5.65 s

I notice there's no metre requirement for hookers and props so I assume the time requirement is for downing a pint

dc69

Sqaull20 wrote: »

Habana 10.3

No one besides a specifically trained sprinter could run a 100 metres in sub 10.4secs, without specific training over a long period, something no rugby player,soccer player etc get...

American footballers are different,as they are hopped up on steroids, so they don't really count...

Habana would be going very well to even break under 11 secs,

Though, i thas to be said that times do vary a bit as the starting mechanisms and routines change...

Stuff like

If you want to be top class i.e. provincial and above its no slower than 11.5 imo, for wings/FB.
For SH/Centre you`d get away with 13/13.5 from my experience.
 

Is all rubbish....

You could have got exceptional athletes from various ball based sports like Habana,young Thierry Henry, young David Trick etc, out on the track one hour before a game and they would wouldnt be giving sub 11 sec speed...

yeah i actulally rechecked them,you ae right,it says habana runs 100m in around 10.9-11 seconds ,varndell and heymens are probly around 11.5-12

Dennis Rommedahl the danish footbaler ran the 100m in 10.4 seconds definitely and he wasnt a sprinter,some people are just fast and choose a different sport

Goodluck2me

dc69 wrote: »

yeah i actulally rechecked them,you ae right,it says habana runs 100m in around 10.9-11 seconds ,varndell and heymens are probly around 11.5-12

Dennis Rommedahl the danish footbaler ran the 100m in 10.4 seconds definitely and he wasnt a sprinter,some people are just fast and choose a different sport

Well Fionn Carr runs faster than Habanna if thats the case! I know several players at u-20 level that ran sub 11, maybe not in boots though, but you get the idea.
You obviosuly wouldnt be running sub 11.5/12 even in boots, pads gear etc.
The ability to do is whats important, not simulating a track.

Tim Robbins

corigi wrote: »

yes ill be starting off in the j league and take it form there just dont wana turn up and realise im to slow im 6"2 but only 12stone so kinda stuck in between whether to build up muscle and weight or work with my speed?i ust to do 100m sprinting when younger but was a bit slow over first 20metres long legs! but afer 50m i wud have made it up i know when we have the ball i will able to sit slighty deeper and will already be moving be i get ball but if i have to turn in defence cud be a problem!

You'll be fine mate. I have reffed a few J4 and J3 games this season and if the ball gets to the wing it's unusual.
If you have pace to burn it certainly helps but it's not essential. Main thing is you pick a decent club and have a bit of crack. You could also play flanker.
The main thing is you have a reasonable level of fitness:
1. Be able to jog 6K - 8K
2. Do 50 press ups properly, twice.

That's a reasonable fitness after that it's technique.

1. Keep your eyes open, back straight and aiming for the hips when tackling.
2. Maximize your momentum when taking a hit, so you are harder to nock down.

Most of all pick a decent club, players you'd be happy having a beer with and enjoy it.

Ulstermell0

almost on topic here!

last night i went for a run - fisrt time in a couple of weeks - and had to stop due to a sharp pain which felt like it was coming from under my left shoulder blade. it went away but everytime i started running again it came back. i walked home and did some press ups and ab work and there was no pain.

any idea what this is from? lack of fitness? or can i expect it every time i run?

Amz

I'd suggest posting on the Athletics forum, someone there might be better able to answer you.

I play on the wing (yes it's women's rugby, but the same skill sets are needed), it's not so much about speed in a straight line I find, you have to be able to change direction quickly, stay strong in the tackle, offload effectively etc.

I'd suggest doing short sprints with quick directional changes, turning, side stepping off both sides etc. Try create drills that best mimic match situations.

No real poing running from A to B in a straight line constalty.

Jackz

Size of your steps while going from a standing start to accelerate best / power away from a tackle on a players weak side things like that. Maybe get some bollards and run at full pelt towards one and jump off one side when you get to it and accelerate again to another, things like that.

Stev_o

Shuttles are your legs best friend and your minds worst enemy

figs86

dc69 wrote: »

there some pretty ridiculous stats for jake whites team,the current record is 9.74 by asafa powell and alot of olympic sprinters would be getting around 10 but jake white wants his hookers to be running it in at around 12-13 seconds?stupid

thats such a ridiculous statement - its 40m, less than half the 100m and you couldnt just double their 50m time to get their 100m time!

40m in 5.1 secs x2 is more than ten seconds for only 80% of the distance!

the wingers would be 20m behind the international sprinters at the end

you don't accelerate all the way through a 100m sprint, you reach a peak speed and do your best to decelerate from that speed as little as possible.
sprinters reach peak velocity after about 6 secs and then start to slow down a small amount - the best sprinters in the world are usually ones who can decelerate from max velocity the least

dc69

figs86 wrote: »

thats such a ridiculous statement - its 40m, less than half the 100m and you couldnt just double their 50m time to get their 100m time!

40m in 5.1 secs x2 is more than ten seconds for only 80% of the distance!

the wingers would be 20m behind the international sprinters at the end

you don't accelerate all the way through a 100m sprint, you reach a peak speed and do your best to decelerate from that speed as little as possible.
sprinters reach peak velocity after about 6 secs and then start to slow down a small amount - the best sprinters in the world are usually ones who can decelerate from max velocity the least

if you added yourfigures correctly,you would realise i didnt just double the figure and add 20%

johnlark

Outside backs were asked to perform 5.10s for the 40m (on grass) by Jake White. That is some shifting!

What you have to take into account is that these are a) International playing norms and b) They are set incredibly high to ensure continued levels of motivation.

I remember one testing weekend we were involved in and the guy ran 9 mins for the 3km. He was told he could improve that!

My point is that try not to read too much into norms.

IN terms of speed - look to get faster first before adding speed endurance. Also look to improve strength in your posterior chain through a mix of heavy lifting with deadlifts and squats and on the other day dynamic efforts (preferably with chains and bands)

Best of Luck

John Lark
http://www.getfitforrugby.com

corigi

Well thanx all for the replys got more than what i thought i wud so atleast now i have an idea where i need to be..alot of hard work ahead but it will be worth it for the drinks afterwards in the bar:) im going to play for bective rangers in donybrook as they alot of teams which gives me a chance to improve and move up if im good enough!

dc69

johnlark wrote: »

Outside backs were asked to perform 5.10s for the 40m (on grass) by Jake White. That is some shifting!

What you have to take into account is that these are a) International playing norms and b) They are set incredibly high to ensure continued levels of motivation.

I remember one testing weekend we were involved in and the guy ran 9 mins for the 3km. He was told he could improve that!

My point is that try not to read too much into norms.

IN terms of speed - look to get faster first before adding speed endurance. Also look to improve strength in your posterior chain through a mix of heavy lifting with deadlifts and squats and on the other day dynamic efforts (preferably with chains and bands)

Best of Luck

John Lark
http://www.getfitforrugby.com

or go to www.getfitforrugby.com john larks official website,where he will tell you the secrets for a one off fee lol:) what a coincidence

thirtyfoot

johnlark wrote: »

Outside backs were asked to perform 5.10s for the 40m (on grass) by Jake White. That is some shifting!

Yeah, presuming controls are in place on the timings, thats about 10.8 pace for 100m.

Pherekydes

Sqaull20 wrote: »

American footballers are different,as they are hopped up on steroids, so they don't really count...

Trindon Holliday ran 10.02 for 2nd at the American Championships and would have been drug tested.

It's nonsense to say that all American footballers are hopped up on steroids.

dc69 wrote: »

Dennis Rommedahl the danish footbaler ran the 100m in 10.4 seconds definitely and he wasnt a sprinter,some people are just fast and choose a different sport

That's nonsense. The Danish 100m record is 10.29.

dc69

Slow coach wrote: »

Trindon Holliday ran 10.02 for 2nd at the American Championships and would have been drug tested.

It's nonsense to say that all American footballers are hopped up on steroids.



That's nonsense. The Danish 100m record is 10.29.

no its not,look for interviews with him,he says the danish record is 10.38 and he states he is very close to it.if he bothered to train for it he would have gone to athens,he is a sprinter that just happens to play football,he is unbelievably quick

its been reported he has run a 10.20,i doubt that but he is very quick

Pherekydes

dc69 wrote: »

no its not,look for interviews with him,he says the danish record is 10.38 and he states he is very close to it.if he bothered to train for it he would have gone to athens,he is a sprinter that just happens to play football,he is unbelievably quick

its been reported he has run a 10.20,i doubt that but he is very quick

He says the Danish record is 10.38 and the record is actually 10.29.

He says he ran 10.4 and he actually ran...

:rolleyes:

dc69

Slow coach wrote: »

He says the Danish record is 10.38 and the record is actually 10.29.

He says he ran 10.4 and he actually ran...

:rolleyes:

he ran somewhere in between 10.20 and 10.40,he is fast lets leave it at that

as for how fast you need to be a rugby back,you could walk and you would still be faster than any player on the Ireland team, so youll be ok,good luck

figs86

as an ideal 5.1 secs for 40m isnt unrealistic.

as said before they are set high (but not unattainable) to keep people training hard.

but i remember reading that doug howlett ran a sub 10.8 second 100m in his final year in school - when coupled with all the training expertise he is exposed to now, for him to be that fast isnt crazy. obviously he wont be as fast as if he was an outright sprinter but in article i read he said he was told he could have been an *******n but he loved rugby (plus it paid!)

obviously habana is lightning as well - and if you look at the times of guys in american football as well, its obvious the world has lost out on some seriously world class sprinters because they would be strictly amateur (there's no money in sprinting) as opposed to offers of 100k plus to be top flight rugby player

there are definitely be some world record contender sprinters playing other, professionally paid, sports

zAbbo

dc69 wrote: »

he ran somewhere in between 10.20 and 10.40,he is fast lets leave it at that

as for how fast you need to be a rugby back,you could walk and you would still be faster than any player on the Ireland team, so youll be ok,good luck

He's be doing well to run sub 11sec, I remember reading in a magazine he said that it would be more like 11.5 when he was queried about running 10.2.

I'd be hugely surprised if any soccer player can run sub 10.5

Horribly off topic I know, but Habana was blitzed cold by Ngwenya at the RWC, but both would be around 10.5 for 100m

Diamondmaker

Ny bro trained with Leinster U21 for 2 seasons. As part of this they did a few tests where various traits were recorded and scored against any one who ever took the tests.

Hickie runs a sub 11 sec sprint, my bro was also in this category !
To the best of my knowledge from my bros time DH is the quickest ever to go thro Leinster acadamy...

I agree very much with an earlier post about the 3 categories, well put.

Anticipation would be a good trait and speed of the mark is critical as it is rare a winger shoukld be caught given a clean break as it is rarely more than 50m of a chase.

A winger should always beat any other player in a sraight pace battle and an ability for a sudden step to drop inside speeding cover and leaving them on their trajectory is also sweet !

thirtyfoot

Always be wary when you see sprint times quoted to one decimal. Usually means hand-timed, possibly with a rolling start and who knows downhill with a big tail-wind. I saw an Asafa Powell Nike add (the one with Drogba) where he runs 9.92 on grass in football boots:eek: but for certain he didn't run that time!

As regards some of these times quoted they are highly suspect and based on heresay. With US Sports the heresay can be believed a little more (with Holliday and X-man good examples) and also because they are black and american, Rommedahl and others are white and Danish (in his case) and as Micheal O Muircheartaigh might say neither of those are sprinting strongholds.:D. I remember seeing stats for Lomu which put him faster than a juiced up Ben Johnson over 40m, again no credibility whatsoever. You can read stories that Andrew Sheridan is lifting more pound for pound than Olympic weighlifters, maybe he is and if he is and able to fit in all the other parts of being a rugby player then he is some man.

Hickie was fast, probably in the 10.80 range (was a schools champion I think) and worked with a Dublin sprint group when recovering from his bad injury, he always did seem to have very good speed endurance too and once he got going was deceptively quick.

gcgirl

Tingle wrote: »

Always be wary when you see sprint times quoted to one decimal. Usually means hand-timed, possibly with a rolling start and who knows downhill with a big tail-wind. I saw an Asafa Powell Nike add (the one with Drogba) where he runs 9.92 on grass in football boots:eek: but for certain he didn't run that time!

As regards some of these times quoted they are highly suspect and based on heresay. With US Sports the heresay can be believed a little more (with Holliday and X-man good examples) and also because they are black and american, Rommedahl and others are white and Danish (in his case) and as Micheal O Muircheartaigh might say neither of those are sprinting strongholds.:D. I remember seeing stats for Lomu which put him faster than a juiced up Ben Johnson over 40m, again no credibility whatsoever. You can read stories that Andrew Sheridan is lifting more pound for pound than Olympic weighlifters, maybe he is and if he is and able to fit in all the other parts of being a rugby player then he is some man.

Hickie was fast, probably in the 10.80 range (was a schools champion I think) and worked with a Dublin sprint group when recovering from his bad injury, he always did seem to have very good speed endurance too and once he got going was deceptively quick.

Denis Hickie was a brill sprinter! the way he out sprinted Felip Conteponi at the recent world cup just showed you how good he was ! still think he had a couple more years in him !

Jackz

gcgirl wrote: »

Denis Hickie was a brill sprinter! the way he out sprinted Felip Conteponi at the recent world cup just showed you how good he was ! still think he had a couple more years in him !

We were supposed to hear more about why he packed it in, after the world cup, never happened though. Problem with Michael Cheika aparently.

gcgirl

Jackz wrote: »

We were supposed to hear more about why he packed it in, after the world cup, never happened though. Problem with Michael Cheika aparently.

Then i if i had of been Hickie would of been on the first bus to Munster! Theres nothing like getting one over your old boss!

dc69

gcgirl wrote: »

Then i if i had of been Hickie would of been on the first bus to Munster! Theres nothing like getting one over your old boss!

hickie has always been so proud of playing for leinster,he made a speech about it once.here is no way he would ever play for any other team esp munster.
He was one of a very small minority of sports stars these days,who put his principles and beliefs before money because as you suggested he probably could have played for 2 more years maybe in england etc but prefered to play for no one after he was forced out of leinster by cheika.(they didnt get along at all)

Diamondmaker

One thing I love about Denis is that with his baggy eyes, messy, whispy thinning hair and apparent could not give a F.ck body language you would never expect him to be the lightening finisher he was !!

Yeah I would love to here more abut Denis Vs Cheika as the other guys he is very close with personally ( Darcy, Bod n Horgo ) seem to get on well with him. I have seen these guys , when not playing being very relaxed and in gret form with Cheiks in the stands back when he 1st arrived in Donnybrook.

Also Cheika promotes the running, ( headless chicken at times) game that you would have thought Denis loved.

I have heard of other things about Hickie, that perhaps were tolerated by other coaches but for what ever reason Cheika wold not and maybe this is where some acrimony came from.

Luckycharm

Hickie was 10.8 for the 100m in school he was captain of the Irish athletics team, he came 2nd in the GB&Ire schools 100m.

Anyway speed is an asset at any sport, being on the wing you need to have speed but there are wingers who have played at highish levels who were not super quick like John Kelly, Ian dowling for example.

In rugby it is all about your 1st 10ms to get through a gap. For soccer you would be aerobically fit probally alot more running but you don't get the hits you get in rugby. Remember you get hit and then get back up again, grapple for the ball etc. Anyway no point being fast if you don't have the rugby brain to go with it or can't catch a ball etc.