Diet & Behaviour

Ayla

At Thaedydal's suggestion, I will start a new thread based on comments made in the "Banned School Lunch" thread.

One poster made the assertion that, in his opinion, many behavioural conditions were partly due to a child's diet. This sparked several comments, and I think this would benefit from more discussion. For instance, what causes behavioural "problems" - is it genetic or environment based? What are the treatments for such conditions, and how do these treatments vary based on social, economic or national standing?

Thaedydal, this is where I would *love* to hear your hard evidence that the American medical system has a drastically different methodology than the Irish.

FakeRedHead

I think you need to clarify a little more what it is you want to discuss.

Do you want to ask why typical children without a medical diagnosis behave in a 'bold' way? And if their diet causes the behaviour?

Or are you asking if diet can cause neuro-biological genetic disorders such as ADD, ADHD or ASD? Diet cannot cause genetic disorders.
They are inherent and present from birth. Changes in diet can, in some circumstances, bring improvements to children in this category. Many have allergies such as casein, gluten or sugar and removing these can help. But they don't cause the disorder. Genetics do.

But if you're suggesting that a child with a diagnosis of ADHD merely needs to eat less junk to not have the condition, that would be totally incorrect.

Ayla

FakeRedHead - good questions and comments.

From the start, please let me assure everyone I am not claiming any sort of genetic disorder is caused by anything other then genetics.

Maybe other questions I can ask to help guide thought would be these:

- Do you think disorders such as ADHD are mis/over-diagnosed by doctors?

- What do you think are the reasons for increased rates of behavourial disorders (is it just that they're now recognized, or are they genuinely becoming more frequent? If it's the latter, why are they becoming more frequent?)

- Are behavioural conditions similiar (in a way) to the likes of asthma? A child may genetically be pre-disposed to developing asthma, but then environmental influences (allergens, air quality, and yes, diet) seem to trigger the full blown condition. Is it possible this could also be the case with some behavioural conditions/disorders?


I genuinely am interested in hearing everyone's opinions, experiences and evidences on this topic. It's a hot topic, and there seems to be a lot of misconception about the issues at hand.

siochain

I’m sure diet is not the full cause of behavioral conditions but I would be inclined to believe that diet would help the situation.

From my own experience as a parent (3 kids under 7) food with out doubt affects behavior. We follow as health a diet as possible for us and the kids and we really like the school lunch box guidelines. The kids get a treat in school on a Friday and something with us at the weekend. Never once has our kids thrown a tantrum in a supermarket or shop looking for sweets and pretty much they can take it or leave it. Its stand out most when kids go to a party and eat junk for 2-3 hours and you can bet there will be absolute mayhem in our house that evening with lots of tears.

We adults know it ourselves eat crap for a few days and no exercise an I feel crap and not in the best of form.

Two other examples:
My Aunts’ son was having problems concentrating on anything and just couldn’t sit still for 2 minutes my aunt as a single parent was having a really difficult time with him. His diet was cleaned up supplemented with omega 3 and it’s made a huge difference. Anytime the diet was not good he relapsed.

Cousins of our kids are very close in age and the parents have different outlook to us on how kids should be raised. The can spend as much on PS2, WII, Nintendo DS (yes the have them all and a DS each) and TV each in there bed room and eat what ever the want. I won’t go into details but the behavioral and body composition difference is huge.

Diet is so important and I know it can be difficult to get kids to eat right all the time and hell they are kids after all and need treats, parent are laying the foundation for the kids life and future health.


Giving kids junk food all the time is nothing short of neglect. I know I went a bit off topic but rant over,

cheers

embee

I think conditions like ADHD seem to be on the increase in Ireland, but I think its more down to better diagnoses and more awareness of the condition than anything else. Having said that, I think that people are too quick sometimes to jump to conclusions about a child who is seemingly hyperactice or can't concentrate. It is very easy to say "Well, he's ADHD, so lets give him some Ritalin and he'll be grand". Obviously, that isn't the case in every situation, and I'd imagine that it is the minority, but I do wonder if there are children in Ireland being medicated needlessly.

Some other countries (and individual doctors) are quicker to medicate than others - I think this is perhaps what Thaed was getting at. It is a well known and established fact that childhood, from birth to adolescence, is on the whole far more medicalised in the US than it would be here. Most children go to see paediatricians as a matter of course in the US, even for check-ups. In Ireland, children of school-going age mostly go to the doctor only when there's something wrong. Don't ask me for statistics - you try to find out info on how or why doctors in the US or elsewhere might be more inclined to write prescriptions than doctors here. Its impossible. It could be anything - fear of litigation, peoples need for a diagnosis, relations with pharmaceutical companies... the possible whys and whynots could fill an entire thread all on their own. That doesn't mean that it isn't the case that America has perhaps adopted a very medicalised approach to care for children. Birth, for example, in the US is almost completely medicalised - midwives don't exist in mainstream hospitals. There are "obstetric nurses" alright, but no midwives. It is very, very difficult to just plain out say "Well, America/Ireland/The UK etc is like this because (insert reason here)" - health beliefs amongst the global population are so hugely varied.

Ayla

embee wrote: »

It is a well known and established fact that childhood, from birth to adolescence, is on the whole far more medicalised in the US than it would be here. Most children go to see paediatricians as a matter of course in the US, even for check-ups. In Ireland, children of school-going age mostly go to the doctor only when there's something wrong.

Embee, I agree with what you've said, but I've picked out this one quote just to clarify -

In the States, the medical establishment is very different to here - there, you don't have a GP who then refers you to a consultant. There are general docs, that's true, but you generally see an individual consultant for whatever you're going for. For instance, growing up I always went to a paed, when I needed a smear I went to an OB/GYN, if I had a rash I went to a dermotologist. None of those were referals, they were just what you did. The only time I ever saw a general doc was when I had a cold I couldn't shake. So the fact that Americans see specialized consultants more there than here doesn't necessarily indicate a more "medicalized" system...just a different organization.

Nevyn

My start down the rabbit hole was when my son was refered to the child and family centre and the team there started the process.

The first thing I was handed was the conners parental tests, both teh short and the long and was told my son's teacher would get the teacher's tests. Which I researched and was schocked at what I found. My findings and the fact I had researched surprised the team no end.

http://www.adhdtesting.org/conners%20rating%20scale.htm

Conners' Rating Scale:



This “test” has been around for years. It was developed by Keith Conners a psychologist. Today the revised edition claims to “identify childhood and adolescent ADHD behavioral problems and psychopathology.” Sadly these claims fail to mention early on invalidation of this testing method. In the *Right to Privacy Hearings on the Federal Role in the Use of Behavior Modification Drugs Used on School Age Children (September 29, 1970) it was noted that this type of screening method was used to obtain children for drug research. Dr. Keith Conners had a financial stake in the outcome of this research. It was established in these hearings that parents/guardians were not required to participate. It was classified as research of the effects of psychotropic drugs on children. The Conners' Rating Scale was never validated as a standardized test. In today’s psychiatric Propaganda marketed to the public regarding the Conners' Rating Scale one critical element is clearly missing, and that is the fact that dozens of parents came forward to protest forced participation in such a risky human experiment on their children (1970). Dr. Keith Conners and his rating scale were at the forefront of obtaining millions of dollars in *blanket mental health grants from the federal government to supply children to the pharmaceutical industry to use for experimentation. This experimentation was conducted to determine the effects of different types of drugs. These blanket grants are still active today, many of which serve as a blank check to the entire psychiatric industry for drug research on children.



The Bottom Line is that for over 3 decades Keith Conners has failed to validate his rating/testing scale. Simply put, the Conners' Rating Scale is nothing more than a subjective survey to obtain innocent children to do experimental drug research on.



A member of our organization took the time to look into the matter of the Conners' Rating Scale further and requested a copy of any type of certificate validating it as an accurate measure in diagnosing ADD/ADHD. He requested this validation/certification from:



1. Center for Disease Control

2. Food & Drug Administration

3. Drug Enforcement Administration

4. National Institute of Health

5. National Institute of Mental Health

6. Center for Health Education & Welfare

7. Kansas State Board of Education

8. Kansas Blue Valley School District





NOT one of the above 8 listed could provide any type of certification on this “test”. Digging deeper this member went further and sent a letter certified registered receipt to C. Keith Conners himself. The letter was received. Not surprisingly, Dr. Conners failed to produce an answer or a certificate. You can read this letter by clicking here




Read




Pertaining to all other “tests” that are being used in the determination of ADD/ADHD, it has been proven that NO ADD/ADHD rating scale, checklist, survey, questionnaires has ever been validated, endorsed, or recommended by ANY Local Government, State Government, or even the Federal Government itself!



*Reference: Right to Privacy Hearings on the Federal Role in the Use of Behavior Modification Drugs Used on School Age Children (September 29, 1970)

*blanket grants- large amounts of dollars given out for up to 25 years without any checks and balances or oversight.

The Conner's tests even the revised ones are still the first port of call and if a parent does not push for a more fuller dignosies they are used at the reason to put a child on meds which is shocking considering thier history.

I have been shocked when I started my research and got talking to parents in support groups who have horrendous time with their children being over medicated and one of which could not wait to moved to this country and get to see a team who had an interest in cbt and getting the child to acquire skills rather then a chemical kosh.

We are in this country at the start of a steep learning curve for ADD, ADHA, high functioning autism and aspergers.

embee

Ayla wrote: »

Embee, I agree with what you've said, but I've picked out this one quote just to clarify -

In the States, the medical establishment is very different to here - there, you don't have a GP who then refers you to a consultant. There are general docs, that's true, but you generally see an individual consultant for whatever you're going for. For instance, growing up I always went to a paed, when I needed a smear I went to an OB/GYN, if I had a rash I went to a dermotologist. None of those were referals, they were just what you did. The only time I ever saw a general doc was when I had a cold I couldn't shake. So the fact that Americans see specialized consultants more there than here doesn't necessarily indicate a more "medicalized" system...just a different organization.

Fair enough, Ayla - I see what you mean. I just question the need for a child to see a paediatrician for a basic check up. There are family doctors in the States - I know someone who attends one in Boston, as do all of his 7 children and his wife. Perhaps he has chosen that particular line of care because he and his wife are both Irish and are used to the idea of seeing a GP. I don't know that there's a need to see an OB/GYN for a pap smear either - practice nurses do them here too. I suppose I just question the need to see a specialist doctor for routine things, that's all. Its just my opinion though.

FakeRedHead

Ayla wrote: »

- What do you think are the reasons for increased rates of behavourial disorders

Again, I'm not really sure what you mean by 'behavioural disorders'.
This tends to be a phrase only used by parents and teachers (who are usually trying to be discreet and not reveal the actual diagnosis). It's not an umbrella phrase that's generally used outside of schools or by psychologists or professionals.

Very often a child will be referred to as having a 'behavioural problem' within a school and the child's actual medical diagnosis (ASD,ADHD, ADD etc) won't be revealed. This can sometimes lead to people thinking it's just a new label for 'bold' and if the child's parents just attended a parenting class or cut out the fizzy drinks all would be well :rolleyes:

If you're asking has the incidence of 'bold' children with no underlying medical condtion increased, I wouldn't have a clue about that.

If you're asking why medically diagnosed ASD, ADD and ADHD are on the increase there are many reasons suggested by various studies ranging from better medical awareness of the conditions, mutli-vaccine useage at an early age, maternal mercury poisoning, increased methalisation of genes etc.

The only thing the studies agree on is that these disorders have a genetic base. Some claim that a trigger is necessary. Most don't. To my knowledge, no study has claimed that food is the trigger. Certainly with ASD it can present in the first few days of a child's life when food isn't an issue yet.

Many people with these genetic disorders have food allergies such as gluten, casein and sugar. Removing these items can bring some improvements. But they don't cause the disorder to occur in the first place.

We all know excess sugar, junk food, things we are allergic to can cause poor behaviour in children (they aren't brilliant at behaving well when they are uncomfortable/on a sugar high).

But I think it becomes prejudiced bashing of children with real disorders and disabilities to suggest that a child diagnosed with ADHD is just a neurotypical child drinking too much Coke.