Car chase around Howth last night!

Ferris

Anyone see/hear that car chase around howth last night. I heard it and it sounded like a modded motor (loud exhaust!) followed by at least 2 sirens.

My girlfriend was on her way home from work a short time later and saw a patrol car that had run into a wall and a merc in sutton.

Im concerned about the hazard level of the chase as it was not that late and it was in a suburban/urban area. I'm not advocating letting scum off joyriding but obviously the officers involved were not experienced/responsible enough to continue this chase.

I remember when my ma's car was sideswiped a few years back by a joyrider she asked the guards wheather the car was being chased. The guard replied that it was and I quote "sure we knew that if we chased him long enough he would crash" and the car indeed crashed near Sutton cross.

Victor

Who says it was joyriding and not something even more serious?

Ferris

True but anecdotally, the cops in howth will chase a car until the driver gives up or crashes.

The point is that it was obviously too dangerous to continue with the chase as a squad car was in an RTA. What if they had killed someone, god forbid. Howth is popular with walkers and drinkers - both of which could have been walking on the path where they crashed, couple that with the safety of the officers who were in the car.

I don't want to let crooks off but is it worth the risk. Who makes the call to continue the chase?

ImaBM-man

I live in the howth and I could hear the sirens as they came up the road, just so happened to be the same time I was dropping my girlfriend home. I was stopped at the temp traffic lights outside the beshoffs and I couldnt believe wat I saw! The car, a mx5(almost sure) came flyin round the bend,smashed through a cone and a sign,narrowly missed a car which was also stopped waiting to come onto harbour view road and it was followed by at least 7 cars! There was def more cuz I saw a few going up the hill past the garda station! Most if the cars were unmarked and they were really going for it! Dunno wat happened after that! Hope he was caught, could have killed anyone.

Matt Simis

Ferris wrote: »

I'm not advocating letting scum off joyriding but obviously the officers involved were not experienced/responsible enough to continue this chase.

Quite the detective yourself to come to such a firm conclusion without knowing why the chase was happening, who was involved and based on crashed car and a lot of noise. Maybe you should leave the policing to them, hmm? I doubt they want to be killed in a car crash or run over a civilian either.

flanzer

I heard several sirens in the Donaghmede area at around 10:15 last night. I presume it was the same chase

Ferris

ImaBM-man wrote: »

The car, a mx5(almost sure) came flyin round the bend,smashed through a cone and a sign,narrowly missed a car which was also stopped waiting to come onto harbour view road and it was followed by at least 7 cars! ....... Most if the cars were unmarked and they were really going for it! Dunno wat happened after that! Hope he was caught, could have killed anyone.

ok, an eyewitness report and to me this sounds like the chase has gotten out of hand. This is over single lane roadworks that are taking place on the seafront. Oh and do you think they had enough pursuit cars?:rolleyes: bear in mind that a garda car collided with a civilian car a mile up the road after this.

Matt Simis wrote: »

Quite the detective yourself to come to such a firm conclusion without knowing why the chase was happening, who was involved and based on crashed car and a lot of noise. Maybe you should leave the policing to them, hmm? I doubt they want to be killed in a car crash or run over a civilian either.

Im sure that they don't want to injure/crash but the question I asked was at what point do they call it a day and let the person go. Sounds like it wasn't a joyrider tho to be fair, probably much worse. I may not be a detective but I am smart enough to know that there are only two ways out of howth by road unless he had a boat or was a good swimmer:cool:. I think they could have caught him easier and without the risk. Its "to protect and serve" remember.

LarWright

flanzer wrote: »

I heard several sirens in the Donaghmede area at around 10:15 last night. I presume it was the same chase

Nah, the lazy ones are in Donaghmede, I'd say the Kettle was just boiling in Coolock Station!

On a serious note, the attitude of "they'll eventually crash" worries me alot, You see on Police Programmes in the UK (I'm addicted to Sky Ones "Road Wars"... Sad but true) that the Police back off to give the drivers they're pursuing a bit of space in the hope they'll slow down, and alot of the time it works. Why not do this here, especially in a built up area. Howth is mental to be going at high speed, not because of people on the footpaths, but the roads are very twisty and narrow, plus all the cars parked parallel etc....

Ferris

LarWright wrote: »

Howth is mental to be going at high speed, not because of people on the footpaths, but the roads are very twisty and narrow, plus all the cars parked parallel etc....

Howth has some really dodgy corners, we're talkin reverse cambers, double apex's, steep declines and crappy tarmac. Also because of the gradients water streams across the roads which is quite tricky too. They also went through the village which has tiny roads and roadworks at the moment.

No doubt the guy who owns the smashed up merc agrees with me that the chase was out of control.

Stephen

I'd reserve judgement until you find out what the guy being pursued did.

Steve

LarWright wrote: »

the Police back off to give the drivers they're pursuing a bit of space in the hope they'll slow down

Thought they only did that once the 'cop'ter got involved.

The guards here have a traffic helicopter, dont they?

LarWright

stevec wrote: »

Thought they only did that once the 'cop'ter got involved.

The guards here have a traffic helicopter, dont they?

Yeah, you're probably right there... The Garda do have a helicopter, but it's operated by the Air Corp so no doubt there's some sort of red tape that says some minister has to sign a piece of paper allowing the chopper to take off if the Garda on the ground request it! :rolleyes:

Tabnabs

LarWright wrote: »

Yeah, you're probably right there... The Garda do have a helicopter, but it's operated by the Air Corp so no doubt there's some sort of red tape that says some minister has to sign a piece of paper allowing the chopper to take off if the Garda on the ground request it! :rolleyes:

Not at all, it's just too busy hovering over my estate at 2 o'clock every morning :rolleyes:

Mailman

Dyflin wrote: »

Not at all, it's just too busy hovering over my estate at 2 o'clock every morning :rolleyes:

You live in Blanch too?

leahcim

Driving to work monday morning I saw something similar. Red audi being chased by at least 4 Garda cars (3 marked and one unmarked) going through citywest business park. I could also hear the garda helicopter overhead.

They were really pushing the driver of the stolen car hard when I passed them. The driver nearly lost control going through one of the roundabouts in the business park. I passed them at 7:45 am so traffic was really busy.

The guy managed to evade capture for a fare while. He stole the car at gun point in south Tallght and got cornered on the fonthill road.

From examiner.ie

Man arrested in connection with car hijacking in Dublin
25/02/2008 - 09:54:18

Gardaí in Dublin have arrested a man following a car hijacking in the south of the city this morning.

The incident happened at around 7.30am at the crossroads between Rathfarnam and Tallaght.

A man apparently held the driver of a red Audi at gunpoint before fleeing the scene in the car.

The garda helicopter was called to the scene and a man was arrested a short time later before being brought to Tallaght garda station for questioning.

story here

tribulus

I live in Bayside and also heard its so it must have gone on for a while. Sounded serious - I heard several sirens at once.

digitalage

I know a lad that was listening to the car chase on a radio scanner, it was a yellox mx5 with 2 occupents, they were doing a 130mph approaching sutton cross, the cops had it blocked off but it was too dangerous so they opened up the road block and forced them down the coast road, eventually the tires on the car gave way and they blew the gear box in the car, they were caught after a two minute chase on foot. The guards had a big cheer when they were caught!

Turner

digitalage wrote: »

I know a lad that was listening to the car chase on a radio scanner, it was a yellox mx5 with 2 occupents, they were doing a 130mph approaching sutton cross, the cops had it blocked off but it was too dangerous so they opened up the road block and forced them down the coast road, eventually the tires on the car gave way and they blew the gear box in the car, they were caught after a two minute chase on foot. The guards had a big cheer when they were caught!

100% correct.

Although the Gards used a stinger to puncture the tyres. Also they did back off when speeds got too high.

View Profile

Where exactly were they caught?

SuperGrover

Ferris - "Its "to protect and serve" remember."

Watching too much telly to distinguish US from Ireland?

Terrontress

On the Emergency Services board, they are always complaining about untrained drivers being allowed to drive Garda cars on a normal license under Superintendent's orders.

Also that alot of the cars aren't up to the job. What sort of Garda cars were involved in the chase?

Regardless of backing off when it got too fast, I don't think a Focus or even a Mondeo could keep up with a MX5 on twisty roads

Turner

Terrontress wrote: »

On the Emergency Services board, they are always complaining about untrained drivers being allowed to drive Garda cars on a normal license under Superintendent's orders.

Also that alot of the cars aren't up to the job. What sort of Garda cars were involved in the chase?

Regardless of backing off when it got too fast, I don't think a Focus or even a Mondeo could keep up with a MX5 on twisty roads

A trained Garda driver in a 1.8 or 2.0 mondeo could easilly keep up with a mx5. Possibly not on a motorway with 1 or two passengers.

The Gardai are trained mostly on bendy roads and with the system they drive to would not lose many cars on bendy roads.

Generally the car being pursued loses it on bends. the gardai just bide their time and wait for them to make a mistake.

Last night though they were able to organise enough resources to block off roads and direct the driver towards a stinger which ended the chase.

unkel

Chief--- wrote: »

direct the driver towards a stinger which ended the chase.

Good to hear it. Stinger is probably the safest way to end a chase, is it? Well I mean safe to the public. There is of course considerable risk to a garda throwing a stinger in front of an approaching car

Terrontress

I'd say the safest is to box the car in like you see them on Sky One.

Chief, I know I have very little knowledge on these matters so sorry if I contradict you but isn't the consensus on Emergency Services board that alot of Garda drivers are not trained?

And half these scumbags are so used to stealing cars that they are very good drivers. With the short chassis of the Mx5, the twisty roads and the fact that a 2.0 family saloon is not fast then I would fancy the thieves' chances better than the good guys!

Turner

Terrontress wrote: »

I'd say the safest is to box the car in like you see them on Sky One.

Chief, I know I have very little knowledge on these matters so sorry if I contradict you but isn't the consensus on Emergency Services board that alot of Garda drivers are not trained?

And half these scumbags are so used to stealing cars that they are very good drivers. With the short chassis of the Mx5, the twisty roads and the fact that a 2.0 family saloon is not fast then I would fancy the thieves' chances better than the good guys!

Although not all Garda drivers are trained alot of them are. If a trained driver is in a car with an untrained driver the trained driver will drive.

This mostly happens in dublin, cant say the same for the rest of the country as resources are generally low in those areas.

The people who rob these cars usually arent sober. More often than not they are on a concuction of drugs and alcohol. In the morning when these two were charged they probably had to ask the gards what happened last night!! Its usually the way.

brayblue24

caught him easier and without the risk. Its "to protect and serve" remember.



Yes, lieutenant

delly

No offence to Ferris, but you didn't even see the chase, just heard it and based on that and the fact there was a patrol car run into a wall you think the chase was too dangerous. I'd understand if you saw it happen and had to take evasive manoeuvres etc., but your basing a lot of your views on presumptions.

I spent a few weeks in Howth GS when I was doing transition year and it was explained to me that it’s a pretty unique area to patrol what with the harbour and the limited entry/exit points into the peninsula, so I’m sure they have a pretty good handle on how to conduct pursuits.

Ferris

Correct, and my girfriend only saw the banged up squad car and a civilian mercedes. So what, doesn't mean that I cant comment on it or start a discussion on who co-ordinates these chases and is responsible for calling them off. If someone had been injured (god forbid - serious!) then there would have been an outcry.

If you read my original post you'll also read about another incident where they deliberately chased a car until it crashed which, in my opinion, is reckless. I have young cousins living on the road they chased it down (windgate rd - a real tight 'n twisty).

I think that some guards get the red mist - as evidenced by the 'cheer' that went up when they caught the guy. The joyrider's will probably only get a suspended or light sentence from our joke courts anyway - not worth the risk in my opinion.

Just to say that this is all my own opinion, im not running down individual guards - just the decisions made by the chase co-ordinator, if there was one.

delly

Ferris wrote: »

Correct, and my girfriend only saw the banged up squad car and a civilian mercedes. So what, doesn't mean that I cant comment on it or start a discussion on who co-ordinates these chases and is responsible for calling them off.

No, your dead right. If it stimulates debate, then fair enough.

Ferris

Chief--- wrote: »

Generally the car being pursued loses it on bends. the gardai just bide their time and wait for them to make a mistake.

Not acceptable in my opinion, what if they 'lose it' into oncoming traffic. my point is that its not worth the crappy sentence thats handed down in court. Nothing the guards can do about that to be fair.

Also what about the sh1tes who goad the guards to get a chase, they are getting what they want - a chase.

prendy

Terrontress wrote: »

I'd say the safest is to box the car in like you see them on Sky One.

Chief, I know I have very little knowledge on these matters so sorry if I contradict you but isn't the consensus on Emergency Services board that alot of Garda drivers are not trained?

And half these scumbags are so used to stealing cars that they are very good drivers. With the short chassis of the Mx5, the twisty roads and the fact that a 2.0 family saloon is not fast then I would fancy the thieves' chances better than the good guys!

most guarda cars are tuned up and the mondeo's are way way better performance wise than your usual family saloon

mvpr

What kind of idiot robs a yellow Mx5?

delly

mvpr wrote: »

What kind of idiot robs a yellow Mx5?

Add to that, what type would buy one?

Turner

prendy wrote: »

most guarda cars are tuned up and the mondeo's are way way better performance wise than your usual family saloon

They are not tuned up in the slightest. They are family cars with stickers on them.

Ferris it is up to the individual Garda driver to end the pursuit if he feels it is too dangerous. Alternatively garda control can end it also.

If a car in a pursuit loses it and crashes into a civillian car causing injuries or death the penalty imposed would be much greater than the normal one for dangerous driving where no collision occurs.

chris85

Ferris wrote: »

Not acceptable in my opinion, what if they 'lose it' into oncoming traffic. my point is that its not worth the crappy sentence thats handed down in court. Nothing the guards can do about that to be fair.

Also what about the sh1tes who goad the guards to get a chase, they are getting what they want - a chase.

If you let them away easy then they will just do it again. These guys like the chase and if not caught will go to more extreme measures the next time to get caught (ie. they wont chase us in the yellow mx5 so lets get 2.0 litre imprezza and that will get them after us).

The guards need to catch these guys but must try do so in the safest way. They tend to drop off at major junctions, catch them on open roads.

Good ending to use stingers, i prefer this method to a boxing in.

MarkN

The Mondeos are most certainly NOT tuned up. The ERU Mondeos have the 2.5 (?) petrol engines and that's it as far as the Mondeos go.

MX5s seem to be the weapon of choice for these scumbags. Those two guards that were killed on the Stillorgan Rd were hit by two idiots in an MX5 also.

Trained driver or not, the normal patrol cars could not keep up with an MX5 particularly in areas like Howth. They are faster, lighter and they handle like they are on rails.

It's not like the guards don't have the cars to back them up these days but in fairness, detectives don't really chase scumbags in car chases - it's more squad cars so I'd love to see the ordinary copper get a high performance car but that in itself brings trouble because a lot of them would kill themselves and or others as they are not all trained.

Give the guards M5s and let's see them get away

Turner

MarkN wrote: »

Trained driver or not, the normal patrol cars could not keep up with an MX5 particularly in areas like Howth.

They did last night.

MarkN

Well then the scum were ****e drivers.

An MX5 is a sports car. And as well and all as a Mondeo handles, you cannot put them around corners like an MX5.

A bog standard Mondeo is not what they should be using to catch lads like that in.

In the UK they'd be chased in something like an Evo and the chase would've ended a long time ago.

chris85

MarkN wrote: »

The Mondeos are most certainly NOT tuned up. The ERU Mondeos have the 2.5 (?) petrol engines and that's it as far as the Mondeos go.

MX5s seem to be the weapon of choice for these scumbags. Those two guards that were killed on the Stillorgan Rd were hit by two idiots in an MX5 also.

Trained driver or not, the normal patrol cars could not keep up with an MX5 particularly in areas like Howth. They are faster, lighter and they handle like they are on rails.

It's not like the guards don't have the cars to back them up these days but in fairness, detectives don't really chase scumbags in car chases - it's more squad cars so I'd love to see the ordinary copper get a high performance car but that in itself brings trouble because a lot of them would kill themselves and or others as they are not all trained.

Give the guards M5s and let's see them get away

I think these Mondeo have no problem keeping up, the trained drivers can control the mondeos better than a scumbag can control an mx5.

angryaine

i think the guards should do everything possible to end a chase - even if it risks the lives of the scumbags who robbed the car.
people like that have no respect for others. i hope the guards gave them a good kicking when the caught them, and another when they got them to the station.

mvpr

Surely it doesnt matter what car the cops are driving, to a certain extent. At the end of the day, these scumbags are going to drive until they either bail and run, get 'stingered' or are involved in an accident.

It doesnt make any difference to them what cop car is chasing them, other than potential bragging rights if they escape.

LarWright

angryaine wrote: »

i think the guards should do everything possible to end a chase - even if it risks the lives of the scumbags who robbed the car.
people like that have no respect for others. i hope the guards gave them a good kicking when the caught them, and another when they got them to the station.

I'd haveno problem with the scumbags that were in the stolen car getting injured, I'd be more worried about the Garda continuing the chase and someone innocent being caught up in it, so in that sense, it's not always best to continue the pursuit!

cabla

Can i just ask what the op is suggesting? Not bother chasing at all? Seems like a bad idea if you ask me. Like what do you expect the garda to do? It is pretty hard to stop a fast moving car if i am no mistaken.

Do you not watch tv, sure its the same in England, they persue them for hours, untill the give up or crash, or perhaps a side swipe to spin them, or the bed of neadles thing.

javaboy

In many cases, the Gardai will decide it is the lesser evil not to chase a stolen vehicle. This is especially true of stolen mopeds/motorbikes. The chances of the motorbike thief having/causing a fatal accident while being pursued is pretty high and the Gardai are unfortunately often left with no choice but to let them go.

The police chopper is the obvious solution but it's pretty expensive to run and is only available in some areas.

Beta Ray Bill

A friend of mine works a garda and he says that issues like this are a regular occurrence, he also said that what the cops are driving is almost always inferior to what the criminals are in and hence its is very difficult to catch them, and the really rely on numbers to even it out. And, in a place like Howth where there are not many Garda cars and a long straight road from the summit right down to Sutton the Garda (unless they have air support) don't have a chance. The amount of young fellas (18,19,20 ish) with fast cars now is ridiculous! how are they affording them so early in there career (BTW Im not saying that every young person with a fast car goes out joy ridding). Ive often heard skangers around my area bragging about getting away from the cops etc.

I really think if the garda had better cars (NOT BMW's, the garda need fast cars not tanks) and better high speed pursuit training alot more of these people would be caught.

Anyway it will start going away as soon as the emissions laws come in. owning a fast car in Ireland is going to be exceptionally expensive, and only the wealthy will be able to afford it. A friend of mine said he has to sell his RX7 (his dream car) in a years time because of tree huggers.

Ferris

Fair question. I'm not for letting them away with it but I think that they shouldn't have chased the mx-5 through howth village at that speed. I mean they were pursuing so hard that one unmarked car crashed into a wall/kerb/mercedes. All the while they had a roadblock at sutton and a stinger being set up. It was actually in their interest to back off to give the stinger more time.

I think it was a red mist situation and they should have been pursuing at a distance.

As for solutions i'm not sure, more choppers would be the obvious one along with strict rules as to when to call a chase off and which drivers should be involved. Fair f*cks to the Guards for getting these scummers but i'm not so sure that the danger and risk was worth the inevitable limp wristed court punishment. On that point maybe a tougher punisment would also help.

Turner

Last night in dublin about 20 houses were broken into and about 10 cars stolen.

This happens nearly every night with the figures doubled on weekends.

When they do actually get behind a stolen car you cant expect them to let it go too easily.

xthe-stig

This was a mx5 last night, it was followed for about ten minutes then, when he went up the summit, the road was closed so he couldn't get down, so he just kept flying up and down with only one car following him in case he bailed out. He then went to drive through the garda blockade at sutton cross and happened to drive over a waiting spike strip. Chase lasted another 5 mins with him on rims, driver and passenger caught. Stole the car an hour earlier

unkel

Are you a member of the force, xthe-stig?

Turner

A lot of people were listening to that chase last night on scanners.

A friend of mine has the whole thing recorded from his and i heard it today, it lasts about 30 mins.

edit

Oh and by the way there were 3 more pursuits in the dublin area later on that night.

msg11

Chief--- wrote: »

A lot of people were listening to that chase last night on scanners.

A friend of mine has the whole thing recorded from his and i heard it today, it lasts about 30 mins.

That's totally illegal.. (the recording !)

Fair play to them taking the scum down.