VTec Engines Overrated?

Green Hornet

Why do people go on about Honda VTec engines as if they were supersonic powerhouses? All we hear is VTec this and VTec that. I've had a few (indeed I currently have one) and will probably continue to do so, but only because of Honda's impeccable reliability, not because they are jet engines.

In my opinion VTec gives a little boost but I think the card is way overplayed by boy racers et al.

Am I wrong in this? I've owned various Honda's for the last 15 years and have never really driven anything else for any long period of time. Maybe I'm just so familiar with them now that I dont realise how good they are but I definitely think much of the stuff we read from owners is baloney.

Henry Ford III

240bhp from a n/a 2.0 (S2000) is a lot of power.

JHMEG

Which one do you have?

VTEC doesn't "boost" anything.

While VTEC started life as a power thing, it has evolved into driveability, economy, etc etc.. Even their hybrids now use VTEC.

You probably don't have a power one (ie dohc vtec).

Gumbo

Green Hornet wrote: »

Why do people go on about Honda VTec engines as if they were supersonic powerhouses? All we hear is VTec this and VTec that. I've had a few (indeed I currently have one) and will probably continue to do so, but only because of Honda's impeccable reliability, not because they are jet engines.

In my opinion VTec gives a little boost but I think the card is way overplayed by boy racers et al.

Am I wrong in this? I've owned various Honda's for the last 15 years and have never really driven anything else for any long period of time. Maybe I'm just so familiar with them now that I dont realise how good they are but I definitely think much of the stuff we read from owners is baloney.

because you have a SOHC vtec engine, its the DOHC vtec engines that have a huge surge in power at 5800 rpm.

you should go drive an integra R and experience it for yourself!

Green Hornet

JHMEG wrote: »

Which one do you have?

VTEC doesn't "boost" anything.

While VTEC started life as a power thing, it has evolved into driveability, economy, etc etc.. Even their hybrids now use VTEC.

I've had 1.8 VTec and now have 1.8 iVTec. Dont get me wrong. I'm very happy with it but think there is too much fuss about it. Must say that there was a "boost" around 4500 revs with the older VTec but it was sluggish below that but the iVTec seems smoother throughout the range.

As one of the other posts says, maybe its the DOHC version that most people refer to rather then the SOHC.

colm_mcm

the proper VTEC lets you rev the engine up to around 9,000rpm

JHMEG

Green Hornet wrote: »

I've had 1.8 VTec and now have 1.8 iVTec.

The 1.8 iVTEC is SOHC, economy engine.

What 1.8 VTEC did you have? In what car?

Green Hornet

JHMEG wrote: »

The 1.8 iVTEC is SOHC, economy engine.

What 1.8 VTEC did you have? In what car?

A 2002 Accord. Great sturdy lady. Also had a 2.0 L Accord which to be honest was not very different performance wise than the 1.8 previous model but I suppose the body was bigger.

Have the new Civic 1.8 iVtec saloon now.

JHMEG

That model Accord is also SOHC. Had a 2.0L myself, 148bhp (1.8 is 140 or so?). Not a performance engine.. quite smooth tho.

Green Hornet

JHMEG wrote: »

That model Accord is also SOHC. Had a 2.0L myself, 148bhp (1.8 is 140 or so?). Not a performance engine.. quite smooth tho.

Yep. 140bhp. Smooth enough alright. Ride quality not brilliant though.

Gumbo

Green Hornet wrote: »

A 2002 Accord. Great sturdy lady. Also had a 2.0 L Accord which to be honest was not very different performance wise than the 1.8 previous model but I suppose the body was bigger.

Have the new Civic 1.8 iVtec saloon now.

exactly, this is why you have NO vtec boost in power! try a DOHC and you will know what everybody goes on about.

bazz26

Drive a S2000 or any Type R and you'll experience what the DOHC VTEC is all about.

Green Hornet

bazz26 wrote: »

Drive a S2000 or any Type R and you'll experience what the DOHC VTEC is all about.

Thats no doubt true but the majority of punters who have a VTEC engine probably have the SOHC rather then the DOHC. Yet we hear them rabbitting on all the time. Not the end of the world I suppose.:)

Captain Slow IRL

Try a new accord dohc-ivtec, sweet engine - 100kph in second gear and pulls all the way!

Why didn't they put a dohc into the 'type s' civic!?

kill-joy

forget v-tec get yourself a mi-vec, mitsubishi are just as good as honda if not better when it comes to preformance

Green Hornet

LIGHTNING wrote: »

While I not a big fan of them I do appreciate the technical side of them. But I do have a big problem with all the VTEC goons who go on about them as if they are big block V8 hemis. How many times on this forum has somebody gone on about a M3,Evo or Boxter and somebody posts about how their 1.6 Vtec would outrun them!

EXACTLY. Thats exactly my point. I have an ordinary iVTEC 1.8 and its great, does everything I want but its not a HEMI. I've seen those posts about 1.6 VTEC owners and you would think they were driving a car with an aeroplane jet engine strapped on.

Stephen

land9 wrote: »

Why didn't they put a dohc into the 'type s' civic!?

The only difference between the normal Civic hatches and the type S is that the type S has 3 doors!

Green Hornet

Stephen wrote: »

The only difference between the normal Civic hatches and the type S is that the type S has 3 doors!

True. Must say that they look better then the 5 door though.

Gumbo

Stephen wrote: »

The only difference between the normal Civic hatches and the type S is that the type S has 3 doors!

im afraid your wrong there mate, there is a 5 door hatch out there that is the Type S DOHC vtec engine producing 160 bhp.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/387305.htm

Gumbo

kill-joy wrote: »

forget v-tec get yourself a mi-vec, mitsubishi are just as good as honda if not better when it comes to preformance

no where close to vtec imo
mivec engines regulary fail to produce their quoted bhp when rolling roaded, where nearly every honda will meet its quoted figure.

and just incase you think im biased, i had a lancer for 2 years so im not just badgering on the honda side of the plate.

kona

some v-tecs are rubbish for power but others ae animals, its all got to do with cam profiles. the sohc V-tecs are docile, a dohc SiR or a typeR will be **** fast.
also a civic doesnt weigh much either so power/weight is great too.

and a lap of mondello isnt a great guage on power.
some minis lap that place quicker than some evos, handling and driver skill plays a huge part.

Mivec are crap,a 1.6 dohc civic will blow apart a 1.6 lancer etc. the best system will be VVti when it is developed more, its a fantastic concept, v-tec has come as far as it can.

dont get me wrong here i hate these bull****ters too,
one told me its deadly when the gti kicks in:rolleyes::D:D:eek: moron.
scay thing is they are driving, and probably try fix cars:eek: scary eh??

what_car

land9 wrote: »

Try a new accord dohc-ivtec, sweet engine - 100kph in second gear and pulls all the way!

Why didn't they put a dohc into the 'type s' civic!?

i Have an accord I-VTEC 2.0 Auto, DOHC engine. built in japan as all accords are.

anyways, its a nice car to drive, with a nice bit of poke... in the manual it says max power (155) at 6000.


i plan on changing it when the new accord comes out, but ill get nabbed with the higher VRT....

i believe that there is a newer 2.0 petrol engine coming in the new accord.

also is the new accord still coming from japan?

also theres no Type S badge on the back of my car.. they dont come with them on the cars... you see some ******* driving around with type R badges on a type S and a second fake exhaust as well... what morons!:eek:


see attachment for picture of my engine

Captain Slow IRL

Stephen wrote: »

The only difference between the normal Civic hatches and the type S is that the type S has 3 doors!

That's my point - why bother put a type s badge on it?!

JHMEG

LIGHTNING wrote: »

How many times on this forum has somebody gone on about a M3,Evo or Boxter and somebody posts about how their 1.6 Vtec would outrun them!

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Thankfully I managed to beat their time around Mondello in a 1.6 base model petrol mazda 3

You seem to be suffering from the very problem you describe (I believe it's called bullsh1tting).

Stephen

kceire wrote: »

im afraid your wrong there mate, there is a 5 door hatch out there that is the Type S DOHC vtec engine producing 160 bhp.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/387305.htm

I was talking about the current generation civics.

Gumbo

land9 wrote: »

That's my point - why bother put a type s badge on it?!

you have no point, type s comes in 3 door and 5 door

ZiabR

My Integra Tyre R is coming in at about 235 BHP.

I can say that when the Vtec kicks in at 6000 rpm right the way to 9000rpm (with a proper exhaust, the Vtec SCREAMS!!!), i am at 180kph in 3rd gear.

Thats power. And i still have 3 gear changes to go :P.

I am a super fan of Honda and their engines and no matter what people say, Vtec's are super fun, drive one and then come back here .

Captain Slow IRL

Current generation 5 door does not come with a Type S badge - Executive is the 5 door equivelant

JHMEG

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well I work at the track so I have a pretty decent knowledge on how to get around track fairly quickly. No problem beating some boy racer in a civic!

You could probably beat M3s,Evos or Boxters too in your 1.6 Mazda?

ZiabR

JHMEG wrote: »

You could probably beat M3s,Evos or Boxters too in your 1.6 Mazda?

LOL :P

Of course he could . I mean the boys at Couture Auto with their Evo putting out in excess of 700+ BHP with Performane Octane fuel wouldnt stand a chance :P.

Sure tell ya what, i will be at Mondello for the March races and they will have their evo their. Bring your Mazda along and show them how its done

JHMEG

Green Hornet wrote: »

EXACTLY. Thats exactly my point. I have an ordinary iVTEC 1.8 and its great, does everything I want but its not a HEMI.

It actually is, a pent roof hemi to be exact...

Green Hornet wrote: »

I've seen those posts about 1.6 VTEC owners and you would think they were driving a car with an aeroplane jet engine strapped on.

You should only really comment on stuff you're qualified to comment on.

JHMEG

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If you want to play the making stuff up game I'm up for it.

You're doing a good enough job:D;):p

ZiabR

LOL :P

Of course he could . I mean the boys at Couture Auto with their Evo putting out in excess of 700+ BHP with Performane Octane fuel wouldnt stand a chance :P.

Sure tell ya what, i will be at Mondello for the March races and they will have their evo there. Bring your Mazda along and show them how its done

JHMEG

My apologies, didn't realise you were talking about *basic* 1.6 Civics. ie the ~100bhp family cars. I thought you were implying the performance oriented DOHC variety.

E92

How about LIGHTNING you drive these cars that you say you can outrun, and then we'll know if VTEC is any good or not:p?

ZiabR

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well that was my original point! I have no problem with the high performance Type R variants but most of the muppets on the roads have the lower power models with every badge on the planet stuck to them.

That i will 100% agree with. Apologies also for my outburst.

ZiabR

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well then we are all in agreement, once we can get all those idiots cars crushed then we wont have a problem

If only , we can dream i suppose

JHMEG

I don't understand Lightning what being quicker around the track in one family car vs another family car has got to do with vtec? Are you claiming your family mazda would be quicker in your hands than *any* 1.6 vtec, or just the sohc ones. Your original post didn't make a distinction.

Senna

every boyracer thinks their car is better than X,Y and Z. Its just that there are so many of the VTEC engined cars around that we here more rubbish about them. They are quick, but its the same exaggerations that was said 20 years ago with the GTE, SRI, RS etc.
I think Honda have produced an excellent engine, providing an excellent reliability, fuel economy and performance combination.



But my 1ltr micra pis*'s on all your cars:D:D:D:D:D

kona

LIGHTNING wrote: »

As I said above most of the people I what rant on about VTEC`s usually have the lower power versions but think they are the quickest things ever. You know the type the ones with the base model but have type R stickers everywhere and large bore exhausts that you can put your foot into! I have no problem with the type R civics or integra`s they are very quick motors. That was my point

can YOU tell whats under the bonnet of a car??? just from the outside???
usually you can have a good idea from little clues but never 100%
and most those cars dont have a large bore exhaust, they just have a back-box, sure large bore exhausts actually decrease performance.

and so wat if they brag that their car is fast, compared to their previous form of transport(a 100euro supermarket bike) a nissan serena would be like a drag car!!!!!
tbh any car that can top a ton is fast, and most cars these days can do this quite easy!

just for the record not one v-tec engine has been returned for a manufacturing defect according to honda so they are reliable, and a dohc is going to be quick.

so no v-tecs are not over rated, they get the praise they deserve.

VeVeX

logik wrote: »

My Integra Tyre R is coming in at about 235 BHP.

I can say that when the Vtec kicks in at 6000 rpm right the way to 9000rpm (with a proper exhaust, the Vtec SCREAMS!!!), i am at 180kph in 3rd gear.

Thats power. And i still have 3 gear changes to go :P.

I am a super fan of Honda and their engines and no matter what people say, Vtec's are super fun, drive one and then come back here .

You reckon your integra does 113 mph (old money) in third?

Masada

you really need to drive a DOHC VTEC to know what its all about but i do agree that a lot of idiots go on about it like as if it turns into a fighter jey after 4500 but their usually the kind of people that wound put NOS in a micra., though to have an opinion on them ya really have to have driven the DOHC VTEC like the old VTi's, SIRs, EK9s, DC2s etc and the power is brilliant., those SOHC engines dont compare at all and the amount of power they can get out of an engine of that size is shocking concidering its an NA engine.,

Green Hornet

JHMEG wrote: »

It actually is, a pent roof hemi to be exact...

You should only really comment on stuff you're qualified to comment on.

Ooooohhhh! I'm just an ordinary Joe driving a VTEC and get fed up of the VTEC gang comparing them to rocket ships. I'm not an engineer and was just trying to be humourous. Apologies if I offended.;)

Mayshine

I'm fairly sure my S2000 won't do more than 95-100 in third, so that integra remark is a load of cock

Biro

Green Hornet wrote: »

Ooooohhhh! I'm just an ordinary Joe driving a VTEC and get fed up of the VTEC gang comparing them to rocket ships. I'm not an engineer and was just trying to be humourous. Apologies if I offended.;)

The point is you're driving the wrong v-tec. It's like someone asking "What is it with diesels? I don't get the hype, mine is grand, but nothing special". You could be driving a 1.9 TDi Golf, and it would be just OK, where as the people raving on about their diesels could be driving a 335d...

You can get the 96 - 01 model 3dr Civic in a 1.6 vti, which has 160bhp, that's more than your 2 litre v-tec, also you can get it in a type R, (jap only, from 98 methinks), with 180bhp. You can also get a 1.5 v-tec in those with 90bhp. So you can see, you need to compare like with like.

what_car

vtec wrote: »

you really need to drive a DOHC VTEC to know what its all about but i do agree that a lot of idiots go on about it like as if it turns into a fighter jey after 4500 but their usually the kind of people that wound put NOS in a micra., though to have an opinion on them ya really have to have driven the DOHC VTEC like the old VTi's, SIRs, EK9s, DC2s etc and the power is brilliant., those SOHC engines dont compare at all and the amount of power they can get out of an engine of that size is shocking concidering its an NA engine.,

do you mean the ivtec dohc 2.0 in the accord type s and accord exec?

or the dohc accord euro R engine?

Gumbo

Biro wrote: »

The point is you're driving the wrong v-tec. It's like someone asking "What is it with diesels? I don't get the hype, mine is grand, but nothing special". You could be driving a 1.9 TDi Golf, and it would be just OK, where as the people raving on about their diesels could be driving a 335d...

You can get the 96 - 01 model 3dr Civic in a 1.6 vti, which has 160bhp, that's more than your 2 litre v-tec, also you can get it in a type R, (jap only, from 98 methinks), with 180bhp. You can also get a 1.5 v-tec in those with 90bhp. So you can see, you need to compare like with like.

exactly the way people should be looking at this thread, dont compare your SOHC vtec with a DOHC vtec.

Steve

kceire wrote: »

no where close to vtec imo
mivec engines regulary fail to produce their quoted bhp when rolling roaded, where nearly every honda will meet its quoted figure.

and just incase you think im biased, i had a lancer for 2 years so im not just badgering on the honda side of the plate.

Mivec is Mitsi's DOHC performance valve timing control.
Vtec is a general term Honda use for any of their variable valve timing systems - including the non performance ones, as is Toyotas VVTi etc..

I don't know where your statement about Mivecs not performing came from - there is lots of rolling road data saying it does e.g. here:
http://www.fto-ireland.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1219

Bear in mind that the Mivec cars tested are 10 yrs old and still producing pretty much what they did when new. Not many other engines can boast that.

Green Hornet

kceire wrote: »

exactly the way people should be looking at this thread, dont compare your SOHC vtec with a DOHC vtec.

I guess you are right but there are many people out there who have only SOHC and still rave on about the performance.

Incidentally, from the point of view of comparison, do the SOHC VTEC compare favourably to equivalent 1.8L or 2.0L cars from other manufacturers. Is a 1.8L VTEC a better performer than say a 1.8L Mondeo?

Gumbo

Green Hornet wrote: »

I guess you are right but there are many people out there who have only SOHC and still rave on about the performance.

Incidentally, from the point of view of comparison, do the SOHC VTEC compare favourably to equivalent 1.8L or 2.0L cars from other manufacturers. Is a 1.8L VTEC a better performer than say a 1.8L Mondeo?

thats fair enough, for someone with a SOHC vtec engine, they have no performance ground to stand on!

the 1.6 sohc vtec civic (2004 shape) has 110bhp and i think the new shape 1.8 vtec (SOHC) has circa 140 bhp..... correct me if im wrong?

compare that to the 1.8 moneo that has 125bhp so not a whole lot of difference to be honest.

Gumbo

stevec wrote: »

Mivec is Mitsi's DOHC performance valve timing control.
Vtec is a general term Honda use for any of their variable valve timing systems - including the non performance ones, as is Toyotas VVTi etc..

I don't know where your statement about Mivecs not performing came from - there is lots of rolling road data saying it does e.g. here:
http://www.fto-ireland.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1219

Bear in mind that the Mivec cars tested are 10 yrs old and still producing pretty much what they did when new. Not many other engines can boast that.

as i said, its my opinion that mivecs are no where close to vtec performance.
put a 1.6 mivec colt/lance against a 1.6 vtec civic / integra and i guarantee that the honda will out perfrom it everytime.

its just my opinion, but i do agree that the mivec system is great too, much the same as the vtec system, and vvti etc etc