Recent developments in Serbia

regedit

Following Kosova's declaration of independence and recognition of its independence by 17 states so fart, there was an outpour of protests which culminated in violence in Belgrade yesterday,. I lived in the region of the former Yugoslavia when Milosevic was rising to power and I was in a state of shock to see the same iconography, speeches fuelled with hatred towards West etc.

Two border crossings between Serbia and the newly recognised Kosova were set on fire and then minded. Slobodan Samardzic, member of the Serb cabinet stated that this was expected and justified. Today, another highly positioned member of the Cabinet V. Ilic stated that violence is part of democracy! Serb prime minister is not doing anything to quell the protests. Like, Serbia would like to be part of the EU but the International Crisis Group keeps making statement that Kostunica is pro Russian and not interested in EU.

It was shocking to see the news last night. Thousands of people were looting shops. A few shop owners even stated that the goods on display were not touched but the looters went for the section with the new models! The police who were guarding the embassies were pulled back for 30 mins and this gave the protesters enough time to set ablaze the US, demolish the Croatian embassy and try to do the same to the UK and German embassy! They even attacked the Brazilian embassy even though Brazil did not recognise the independence of Kosova.

It is shocking in the XXI century to see that the Serb TV stopped all US programs and reverted to showing Russian programs! On a B92 forum someone suggested that President Tadic should call out the army on the streets and arrest Kostunica and his political supporters. That would not be democratic and would not go down well.

They Serb authorities are trying to get students into Kosovo so that they could join the protests in Northern Mitrovica! I actually thought that some Albanians would behave improperly and try to get back to the Serbs. Apparently Serbs are being kept under a glass bowl so to say and nothing has happened to them so far!

Just wandering if anyone could analyse the current situation, the cause and the repercussions!

mick72

I think Serbia is being raped by the US and few other EU countries that would never allow something like this on their own soil.

Hooligans looting the shops is nothing unusual in this world, we had them here last year or so when Orange march was taking place.


Serbia declared Kosovo an illegal state so there is no border crossings and that's why they were set on fire. I think as soon as there is global crisis or commotion, Serbia will use its army to recover their province.

regedit

mick72 wrote: »

I think Serbia is being raped by the US and few other EU countries that would never allow something like this on their own soil.

Hooligans looting the shops is nothing unusual in this world, we had them here last year or so when Orange march was taking place.


Serbia declared Kosovo an illegal state so there is no border crossings and that's why they were set on fire. I think as soon as there is global crisis or commotion, Serbia will use its army to recover their province.

Me thinks you're wrong in your judgement.

Lootings do happen randomly throughout the world but then, attacking embassies en mass is not a common thing. It is a thing that will moor Serbia down for decades. This I blame on he regressive Prime Minister Kostunica who is a huge nationalist (nothing wrong with being a nationalist) who is putting in doubt the future of his own nation for a lost cause.

I know some things about the Serb army as well. While they were well equipped during the campaigns in Bosnia, Croatia and later on in Kosovo this can be attributed to the fact that the weaponry, logistics etc were all part of the former Yugoslav National Army (JNA) which was the army of the ex Socialist state. As they withdrew (well lost in fact) from the campaigns in Croatia and Bosnia huge arsenals of weaponry were brought to Serbia and then used for wars. That weaponry is now either old or sold to African nations for second to nothing.

While you may advocate a military assault by Serbian army in Kosovo this is a thing of the past. NATO has a large military presence there (BondSteel military camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel) is the biggest camp of its source in Europe (I stand to be corrected on this)) and the EU are flying in additional professionals.

Kosova was internationally recognised by 21 states and on the list of the states that will not recognise Kosovo you will find countries which have problems with minorities etc.

Therefore "their" province of Kosova is not a province anymore but an independent state (a Republic actually).

Moriarty

Off-Topic: Regedit, can you please post here without colour tags in future? It's impossible to read your posts on some of the other forum skins people have set. Thanks

Partizan

regedit wrote: »

Me thinks you're wrong in your judgement.

Lootings do happen randomly throughout the world but then, attacking embassies en mass is not a common thing. It is a thing that will moor Serbia down for decades. This I blame on he regressive Prime Minister Kostunica who is a huge nationalist (nothing wrong with being a nationalist) who is putting in doubt the future of his own nation for a lost cause.

I know some things about the Serb army as well. While they were well equipped during the campaigns in Bosnia, Croatia and later on in Kosovo this can be attributed to the fact that the weaponry, logistics etc were all part of the former Yugoslav National Army (JNA) which was the army of the ex Socialist state. As they withdrew (well lost in fact) from the campaigns in Croatia and Bosnia huge arsenals of weaponry were brought to Serbia and then used for wars. That weaponry is now either old or sold to African nations for second to nothing.

While you may advocate a military assault by Serbian army in Kosovo this is a thing of the past. NATO has a large military presence there (BondSteel military camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel) is the biggest camp of its source in Europe (I stand to be corrected on this)) and the EU are flying in additional professionals.

Kosova was internationally recognised by 21 states and on the list of the states that will not recognise Kosovo you will find countries which have problems with minorities etc.

Therefore "their" province of Kosova is not a province anymore but an independent state (a Republic actually).

I see your ratcheting up the CNN/Fox News/Sky-Murdoch propaganda of demonising the Serbs. Have you ever been to Serbia. Honest I dont think you have the foggiest of what is happening on the ground in the Balkans, what the implications of this folly which has resulted in the dismemberment of Serbia, (illegal in International Law) or indeed what you have typed up. I might as well have read Fox News than read that.

If Serbia does go to war to recover its province it would be in the right as it has the law on its side. Obviously in your neck of the woods might is right, right.

regedit

Partizan wrote: »

I see your ratcheting up the CNN/Fox News/Sky-Murdoch propaganda of demonising the Serbs. Have you ever been to Serbia. Honest I dont think you have the foggiest of what is happening on the ground in the Balkans, what the implications of this folly which has resulted in the dismemberment of Serbia, (illegal in International Law) or indeed what you have typed up. I might as well have read Fox News than read that.

If Serbia does go to war to recover its province it would be in the right as it has the law on its side. Obviously in your neck of the woods might is right, right.

Serbia does not have the muscle to go to war anymore. They would have done it already if they thought they stood a chance.
They lost the wain Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina and Kosovo despite the vast technical superiority (reason: read my post above). The state is near anarchy as it is with no unity and corruption equaling the one of Bangladesh so no war in the next 50 year.
How just a new war would be, I leave it to the posters here to decide.
Having the political supporst of Russia, Belarus, Venezuela and Georgia is not something one can consider important!

mick72

Regedit,

the fact that NATO has a largest military camp in Europe in Kosovo is why kosovo is independent. As you might know Serbia opted out of NATO structures last year.

Kosovo has been recognised by 22 states who are basically US lap dogs. UN counts 192 members and most of them have ethnic minorities demanding independence as such.

Bosnian Serb Prime Minister Dodik said if Kosovo receives overwhelming recognition that the Bosnian Serb republic (Republic of Srpska) will call a referendum on independence as well.

In regards to Serbian Army recovering Kosovo: easily done if Russia was to offer Serbia military protection from eventual air raids that would ensue Serbia has driven Nato out.

regedit

mick72 wrote: »

Regedit,

the fact that NATO has a largest military camp in Europe in Kosovo is why kosovo is independent. As you might know Serbia opted out of NATO structures last year.

Kosovo has been recognised by 22 states who are basically US lap dogs. UN counts 192 members and most of them have ethnic minorities demanding independence as such.

Bosnian Serb Prime Minister Dodik said if Kosovo receives overwhelming recognition that the Bosnian Serb republic (Republic of Srpska) will call a referendum on independence as well.

In regards to Serbian Army recovering Kosovo: easily done if Russia was to offer Serbia military protection from eventual air raids that would ensue Serbia has driven Nato out.

Amongst others, Kosova was recognised by France, Germany, UK, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Ireland and the opinion of these countries with established democracies is what matters. All of them have democratic systems that are well established. The fact that Laos, Kyrgyzstan and Vietnam do not recognise the independence is less important.
For your information, Serbia was never part of the NATO structures. They made it into Partnership for Peace and that's it.
Slovenia is the only active member of NATO from ex-Yu counties.
As for Dodik and the Republika Srpska, readers should know that he represents the interests of the RS and not the entire Federation. RS has no attributes of a state neither did they have these in the past so the chance of them becoming an independent state is equal to zero. I question who would recognise RS if they were to declare secession! Russia, no way, China no way. Serbia itself, I do not think they would have the political strength to do so.

There is a scenari that would invole Kosova's rapid accession in the NATO alliance if the leaders feltthat Russia could try to flex it army so that tis a scenario nobody wants.

mick72

I am afraid that these 22 countries that recognized Kosovo will not be sufficient for Kosovo to become the UN member, EU member, OEBS member, MMF member, Olympic Committee member.

I have to correct you Serbia never made it to the Partnership for Peace.

I regards to Republic of Srpska, I cannot see what state attributes Kosovo has that RS does not? For God saje, if Serbia cuts off electricity, it will be complete blackout in Kosovo. However, as it is Kosovo is a puppet creature where Thaci and the rest only do what Nato commanders tell them to.

I could see Albanians attacking Nato in few years time when they realise that Nato are not going to leave them alone

regedit

mick72 wrote: »

I am afraid that these 22 countries that recognized Kosovo will not be sufficient for Kosovo to become the UN member, EU member, OEBS member, MMF member, Olympic Committee member.

I have to correct you Serbia never made it to the Partnership for Peace.

I regards to Republic of Srpska, I cannot see what state attributes Kosovo has that RS does not? For God saje, if Serbia cuts off electricity, it will be complete blackout in Kosovo. However, as it is Kosovo is a puppet creature where Thaci and the rest only do what Nato commanders tell them to.

I could see Albanians attacking Nato in few years time when they realise that Nato are not going to leave them alone

Serbia is a member of Partnership for pece since 14.12.2006. Check the NATo link
Most EU countries wil recognise Kosova soon. Then the regional states (Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Hungary etc) will follow. You should know that none of the OIC countries have yet recognised Kosova and most will do this soon.
As far as for electricity, Kosova does not get it for free from Serbia but it pays a fair price for its use.
t is better to be a puppet of a civilised and organised nation then a puppet of a nation lead by maniacs and idiots. That is my humble opinion.

Riddle101

I doubt Serbia is going to invade Kosovo despite how it's acting now. First of all, Invading Kosovo would bring Serbia in direct contact with NATO, i don't think anyone wants to go up against NATO, even Russia. Secondly Serbia dose not have the resources to be able to deal with a war right now, nor dose Kosovo but with UN backing Kosovo could very much do some damage to Serbia.

mick72

Riddle,

of course they are not going to recover Kosovo now, since Nato is there. However, when it becomes appropriate in future Serbia will recover Kosovo.

Kosovo is not the UN member, and the international law is on Serbia's side. I have to remind you that Resolution 1244 authorizes only UN to make decisions in regards to Kosovo. Tha fact that they declared independence is irrelevant, unless they are UN member they are not subject to international law. Countries that recognised Kosovo made their decision under the pressure from the US, and its intrests in Kosovo.

In regards to electricity,

Kosovo has no other means of supply, and they are getting it for free at the moment.