Failure under Trap.........we cant blame him surely

darkman2

So here is the pickle


If Ireland fail to qualify for the WC in 2010 - can we blame the manager?.....a man of his stature?


Or will it simply reinforce for good and all the opinion that our players simply are not good enough?


Would you see not qualifying as failure?


My own view is that its end game in 2 years and if we dont make it we just have to accept the harsh reality that it will be many years before we are respected in Europe again as a good team. We are out of excuses now.

What do you think?

Pepe LeFrits

Don't worry, we're going to win it.

Ireland, World Champions 2010. Anyone who says otherwise is talking Trap.

mikemac

He would not have taken the job if he was not confident that we would qualify and qualify we shall!

If we do fail, I will blame the players and not the manager.
Yes, I'm saying this before I see if players are played out of position or if daft tactics are used but I believe the players will be fault sooner than the manager

leninbenjamin

were we ever respected? a nation of our size we'll always be the also-rans. we just dont have the know how at grass roots to make enough decent players seemingly, and i don't expect that to change anytime soon.
If trap gets us to the WC it'll be a very good achievement for him, not the minimum expectation as some seem to think.

herbieflowers

yeah, anytime we've qualified we've punched above our weight (at the tournament and at during qualifiers), Trapp should be the man to get the best out of the limited squad we have, our seeding is what, fourth or something? there's a reason for that...

estebancambias

If we don't qualify but are fighting with Bulgaria the whole way, and we have played to a good level, then no I won't blame him, however should we finish second bottom for example then yes....it ain't gonna happen though, I expect a good fights with the Bulgars.

Bounty Hunter

darkman2 wrote: »

So here is the pickle


If Ireland fail to qualify for the WC in 2010 - can we blame the manager?.....a man of his stature?

Of course not. We most likely could blame the fact that we were drawn alongside the World Champions though. However if we do far worse than just "not qualify" and have a stan-esque campaign then it might reflect that we are actually snit. I expect under iL Trap we will atleast be competitive though

darkman2

leninbenjamin wrote: »

were we ever respected?

I think so. In 1990 when Ireland was amongst the top 8 teams in the world we were certainly respected. By 1994 it had waned but in our favour - Italy obviously did not respect us enough. It was downhill from there until 2002. However its worth noting that Ireland struggle to qualify but once they get to a tournament they do very well.


BTW Italy may be world champions but they are not a great team by any stretch of the imagination. They are in fact very beatable from Ireland's point of view and Trap knows this.

leninbenjamin

darkman2 wrote: »

However its worth noting that Ireland struggle to qualify but once they get to a tournament they do very well.

not really... my memory of 2002 is that the team underperformed a bit. they should have gotten by Spain at least, there couldn't have been a better chance to beat them.

obviously i wasn't old enough to remember 1990 and 1994, but from what i gather is that those teams were better on paper than they ever achieved in the tournaments.

darkman2

leninbenjamin wrote: »

not really... my memory of 2002 is that the team underperformed a bit. they should have gotten by Spain at least, there couldn't have been a better chance to play them.

Actually Roy Keane said Ireland will NEVER have a better chance to win the WC and he is right. Would have been SK in the quarters - and USA in the semi's or the other way around.


We actually could have won that WC believe it or not. Perhaps we should have won that WC. We were clearly better then Spain IMHO.

herbieflowers

I don't think we were ever respected in the proper sense of the word, I think we were viewed as a bloody hard team to play against!

darkman2 wrote: »

Actually Roy Keane said Ireland will NEVER have a better chance to win the WC and he is right. Would have been SK in the quarters - and USA in the semi's or the other way around.


We actually could have won that WC believe it or not. Perhaps we should have won that WC. We were clearly better then Spain IMHO.

I don't think so. I mean, Ireland - win a World Cup?! Come off it!

darkman2

leninbenjamin wrote: »

obviously i wasn't old enough to remember 1990 and 1994, but from what i gather is that those teams were better on paper than they ever achieved in the tournaments.

Ah you missed the good times:D Really it was great. I know its probrably hard for you to comprehend under Stan but we were in the elite for a period. The team was great now that I think back - in fact it was world class. If anything JC played too defensively.

herbieflowers

Elite? World class? Win the WC? You're off your rocker!

Everyone says? What? Teams who win the WC consistently qualify for tournaments, have a footballing pedigree that extends back for years and years, Ireland were never going to break that tradition...Ireland won't win a WC for a long long time...sure we could've done better but Brazil would have taken us easily, Germany too

darkman2

herbieflowers wrote: »

I don't think so. I mean, Ireland - win a World Cup?! Come off it!

It was there for the taking for us. Everyone says that we could have won that WC. I agree.

darkman2

herbieflowers wrote: »

Elite? World class? Win the WC? You're off your rocker!

Everyone says? What? Teams who win the WC consistently qualify for tournaments, have a footballing pedigree that extends back for years and years...Ireland won't win a WC for a long long time...sure we could've done better but Brazil would have taken us easily, Germany too

Erm we would not have had to play Germany again unless they made the final. What im saying is it was the USA and South Korea for us in the quarters and semi's.............if you dont see what we should have acheived (had Ian Harte not been selected to take the first penalty in the Spain match:mad:) then you dont really understand.

herbieflowers

I dunno, I can see your point...I just find the notion completely implausible. If Ireland did happen to win the WC in 2002 it would have been farcical, Ireland the best team in the world? Come off it!

darkman2

herbieflowers wrote: »

I dunno, I can see your point...I just find the notion completely implausible. If Ireland did happen to win the WC in 2002 it would have been farcical, Ireland the best team in the world? Come off it!

Does the best team in the world always win the WC? No - look at Italy. 'World Champions' - pffft. Look at what Greece did in the Euros. Honestly we should have made the final at least. It annoys me looking back really. Time to look forward though.



BTW I never said Ireland would win the WC - What I said was we will never have a better chance.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Vokes

Never had a better chance to get to a final in '02, although Germany prob wouldve turned on the style against us in the semis. But there's no doubt, Ronaldo & Co. would've crushed us.

Savman

SofaKing wrote: »

But there's no doubt, Ronaldo & Co. would've crushed us.

No he was slim back then

grames_bond

thersa alot of "ifs" going on here:

IF ian harte hadnt taken that peno....
IF we had gotten past spain...

you might aswell throw in
IF roy keane hadnt left....

Either wasy outcomes are still up in the air, you never kno SK may have beatin us in the next game, thats football, who would have thaught barnsley would beat pool so we cant say we would have made the final, yes we had a good chance but threw it away against spain.