Rebels forced to forfeit four games

KevIRL

Proper order too..


Rebels forced to forfeit four games
Tuesday, 19 February 2008 17:35

The GAA's Central Competitions Control Committee have decided that Cork footballers and hurlers should forfeit the games they failed to play during the recent players' strike.

That means the footballers of Meath and Dublin and the hurlers of Kilkenny and Waterford will pick up two points each. Cork have also been fined €400 per game unfulfilled.

The Cats and the Deise were willing to reschedule the Allianz NHL games, but Meath football boss said his side would not play Cork as the Royals had already made themselves available to play the Rebels on two occasions.

The Dublin County Board were also upset at how their postponed NFL Division 2 game with Cork was handled in the lead-up to last Saturday.

The remaining games in the National Leagues will take place as scheduled

cruiserweight

I am not happy to be honest. I think that for the competition to be fair, then either Cork must play all of their games or none of their games. This ruling gives an advantage to the teams that have had fixtures postponed, and as such puts the teams that still have to play Cork at a disadvantage

jhealy74

good enough for them i rec

Stealdo

cruiserweight wrote: »

I am not happy to be honest. I think that for the competition to be fair, then either Cork must play all of their games or none of their games. This ruling gives an advantage to the teams that have had fixtures postponed, and as such puts the teams that still have to play Cork at a disadvantage

Totally agree with you Cruiserweight, particularly as the Cork "us against the world, chip on me shoulder" attitude will be massively fueled by this miscarraige of justice and they'll very likely come out fighting.
Anyway, there are rules that say that a team that fails to fulfill two fixtures in a competition is disqualified, I've seen it applied at club level, this seems like a bit of a fudge at a compromise, not wanting Cork to go unpunished, but not wanting to urinate on the mediation process by kicking them out after they finally reached an agreement in order to stay in.:rolleyes:

shiibata

also think they should play them as their punishing other teams as well who have yet to play them..

Skyhater

This is a Disgracefully decision... Totally unfair on the other teams in their respective leagues.

The Central Competitions Control Committee should have done one of the following:

1) Throw Cork out of the League
2) Replay all missed Matches
3) Replay all missed Matches and Deduct Cork 4 points (but still leave the points up for grabs in the individual games)

What if Cork bead Monaghan or Armagh in Football Div2 and Meath or Dublin get promoted as a result of their free points!!!!

D. Coughlan

Skyhater wrote: »

This is a Disgracefully decision... Totally unfair on the other teams in their respective leagues.

The Central Competitions Control Committee should have done one of the following:

1) Throw Cork out of the League
2) Replay all missed Matches
3) Replay all missed Matches and Deduct Cork 4 points (but still leave the points up for grabs in the individual games)

What if Cork bead Monaghan or Armagh in Football Div2 and Meath or Dublin get promoted as a result of their free points!!!!

How is it a disgrace, when the teams involved get two points for doing nothing, and cork start the league been 4 points down(in reality) already. At Least Kilkenny have a heart:)http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0220/cork.html

Skyhater

D. Coughlan wrote: »

How is it a disgrace, when the teams involved get two points for doing nothing, and cork start the league been 4 points down(in reality) already. At Least Kilkenny have a heart:)http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0220/cork.html

I don't understand your logic..... It is a disgrace, just because Dublin and Meath get two points for doing nothing. That's my exact point.
It's grossly unfair the the rest of the teams that have to earn their points by playing cork.

I understand that it's not fair on Dublin or Meath who may need to fit in the missed games on unscheduled weekends , but this is the lesser of two evils.

Cork should be thrown out or start the league with -4 points with all fixtures being played.

cruiserweight

D. Coughlan wrote: »

How is it a disgrace, when the teams involved get two points for doing nothing, and cork start the league been 4 points down(in reality) already. At Least Kilkenny have a heart:)http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0220/cork.html

The point is that this gives an advantage to the teams that have had fixtures called off, thus putting the teams that have yet to play Cork at a disadvantage. Like I said at the beginning of the thread, either Cork should have to fufill all of the fixtures or none IMO. We can't blame Cork for this decision though I suppose, just for putting the CCCC in the position to have to make another silly decision.

D. Coughlan

Skyhater wrote: »

I don't understand your logic..... It is a disgrace, just because Dublin and Meath get two points for doing nothing. That's my exact point.
It's grossly unfair the the rest of the teams that have to earn their points by playing cork.

I understand that it's not fair on Dublin or Meath who may need to fit in the missed games on unscheduled weekends , but this is the lesser of two evils.

Cork should be thrown out or start the league with -4 points with all fixtures being played.

let's not forgot that the Meath manager refused to play Cork and Dublin were complaining about the way the situation was been handled, it was the lobbying of those two counties that forced the GAA into this situation

cruiserweight

D. Coughlan wrote: »

let's not forgot that the Meath manager refused to play Cork and Dublin were complaining about the way the situation was been handled, it was the lobbying of those two counties that forced the GAA into this situation

To be honest, I think the only way to be fair to all of the other counties would be to throw Cork out of the league. That way no other team benefits or is at a disadvantage. If fixtures were replayed then the teams that have to replay are at a disadvantage. I would agree that part of this problem is teams refusing to replay fixtures, in this respect fair play to Kilkenny and shame on Meath.

gucci

Skyhater wrote: »

The Central Competitions Control Committee should have done one of the following:

1) Throw Cork out of the League
2) Replay all missed Matches
3) Replay all missed Matches and Deduct Cork 4 points (but still leave the points up for grabs in the individual games)

i would be in favour of option 3.

Skyhater wrote: »

What if Cork bead Monaghan or Armagh in Football Div2 and Meath or Dublin get promoted as a result of their free points!!!!

Yeah its so stupid, they have opened a can of worms here. This could be very "eircom league" style here where a team could get promoted or relegated because of deductions, but at least in that case it was only the team that was punished (ie. CORK) who got punished....no teams were adding to their points total.
By punishing Cork and awarding the points to the other teams they have punished Cavan, Roscommon, Armagh etc. Dublin and Meath have benefited from the lottery of the fixture list.


In my own club, we got 2points this year for another team failing to field, and it was the difference between us being relegated or not. So this sort of thing happens and decides big decisions.

kaimera

*sighs*

Typical of the GAA. Things just can't be done simple can they.

Either play all or don't play at all. This forfeit **** is just that, ****. How they think it can be a good idea I don't know. I also don't see the problem with Dublin & Meath replaying the games...they did have an extra week off

JMULL

Where does the €400 fine per game go. Does it go to the teams they were supposed to play to cover deposits on buses, hotels etc???

blackbelt

I have no personal objection to this.

Firstly,the GAA hierarchy in Croke Park and the CCCC must acknowledge that they let this go on before getting off their laurels so I have a feeling some of the responsibility lies on their shoulders whether they like to admit it or not and deemed it unnecessary to kick Cork out of the League.

Secondly,Meath made it quite clear that they weren't going to be bullied into honouring a re-fixtured game that they tried to accomodate on one or two occasions a month previously.I heard a rumour Dublin went down to Cork anyway but Meaths stance on the whole issue meant that Dublin had to be treated equally in terms of getting walkovers.

The GAA and CCCC may also be looking at the issue of player burnout.I acknowledge that Cork could have played games this weekend against either of the two aforementioned but this weekend is concentrating on Club semi-finals.While hardly affecting each county in a big way (Cork and Dublin) it is interesting to note that rescheduling games may contribute to player burnout.We have the Sigerson Cup too that many college intercounty stars play in.

Also,the GAA and CCCC may have looked at this in the spirit of competition.Meath and Dublin were affected but the other teams weren't.Presuming Cork may have lost one of the two mentioned games or indeed both of them,this would have thrown Cork in their current predicament anyway.

If anything,I think this may advantage those counties anyway.Lets look at it in the context of Cork beating Dublin or Meath.Those two counties would have lost a game and things would have been evened out at the top of the league leaving the rest to battle amongst themselves.Now that Cork have in effect lost two games,this puts them in the same situation as Cavan and to a lesser extent Roscommon (who are on a point)

The ruling was in favour of competiton yet it did punish Cork for how they affected the league so far.I think they looked to punish them accordingly and the fines are justified.

I think the ruling was fair.It will be interesting to see how the struggling teams react and how they might go about relegating Cork themselves.It throws up extra incentives for Cork to stay up or for other teams to knock them out.

Zzippy

Personally, I think Dublin and Meath have lost out - IMO the league is for getting in some competitive football while trying out new players, and they've lost out on a good match. I'm sure they could have squeezed in a match somewhere. I'm also sorry for the teams that still have to play Cork and see Meath and Dublin get walkovers. As a Dubs fan I'd rather see them play the match and win it, get the game time, and win promotion fair and square.
Playing all the matches and deducting Cork 4 points would have been the right way to do it.

MrJoeSoap

D. Coughlan wrote: »

let's not forgot that the Meath manager refused to play Cork and Dublin were complaining about the way the situation was been handled, it was the lobbying of those two counties that forced the GAA into this situation

With very good reason too. Dublin were screwed over and theres no way Meath should be forced to play Cork on a week off. It's Corks own fault they missed the fixtures and to say that they should be accomodated at other teams expense is nonsense.

blackbelt

I think its a bit rich the way some Cork fans went on by saying that they don't care what other counties think or if their game was affected.Its true to say that they should have no complaints that they have to forfeit two matches that inconvenienced the two teams concerned.

I also agree with Zzippy on his point of view that Meath and Dublin lost out on experience and valuable playing time but I think its fair that Cork should be in the position to fight out of relegation while giving a weaker team a chance to stay up.

patmac

Not an easy one imo. Cork must be punished some way so should be booted out or deducted points and the games played. Westmeath play away to Cork in what would be Cork's second game and that puts us at a big disadvantage. People may blame the GAA for this but it's Cork that have caused all this mess and embarassment. Frank Murphy who as secretary of the Cork County Board (a position I believe which all GAA clubs pay for) has a lot to answer for.

molby14

D. Coughlan wrote: »

let's not forgot that the Meath manager refused to play Cork and Dublin were complaining about the way the situation was been handled, it was the lobbying of those two counties that forced the GAA into this situation

no that would have been corks refusal to play both meath and dublin on the dates released months age that forced the gaa into that situation

D. Coughlan

molby14 wrote: »

no that would have been corks refusal to play both meath and dublin on the dates released months age that forced the gaa into that situation

No, the matches should and would have been again if Meath in particular didn't refuse to play. The Right thing would have been Cork to get a four point penalty and the matches be replayed, to be fair to everyone, but that could not have happened as Meath refused to replay their game against Cork and the same decision needed to be made in respect of all the outstanding fixtures.

Clearly, it was Cork's fault in the overall scheme of things, as they were on strike( for good reason). The decison is unfair to everyone expect Cork, Meath and Dublin. And it is ricdicalous that the GAA won't play the Kilkenny game, but i hear their will be a challenge game between the two counties on Sunday, which should be good, as they need match practice. It defies logic not to allow it to go ahead as a League game

molby14

D. Coughlan wrote: »

No, the matches should and would have been again if Meath in particular didn't refuse to play. The Right thing would have been Cork to get a four point penalty and the matches be replayed, to be fair to everyone, but that could not have happened as Meath refused to replay their game against Cork and the same decision needed to be made in respect of all the outstanding fixtures.

Clearly, it was Cork's fault in the overall scheme of things, as they were on strike( for good reason). The decison is unfair to everyone expect Cork, Meath and Dublin. And it is ricdicalous that the GAA won't play the Kilkenny game, but i hear their will be a challenge game between the two counties on Sunday, which should be good, as they need match practice. It defies logic not to allow it to go ahead as a League game

meath offered cork an extra week to sort there problems out and it was thrown back in there face
cork are to blame no one else

niallo32

Stealdo wrote: »

Totally agree with you Cruiserweight, particularly as the Cork "us against the world, chip on me shoulder" attitude will be massively fueled by this miscarraige of justice and they'll very likely come out fighting.
Anyway, there are rules that say that a team that fails to fulfill two fixtures in a competition is disqualified, I've seen it applied at club level, this seems like a bit of a fudge at a compromise, not wanting Cork to go unpunished, but not wanting to urinate on the mediation process by kicking them out after they finally reached an agreement in order to stay in.:rolleyes:

Miscarriage of justice??

They were fixed for games that they didn't fulfill - they forfeited the points.

The only miscarriage of justice was the fans for the other counties who had booked trips to Cork for the games..

niallo32

blackbelt wrote: »

I heard a rumour Dublin went down to Cork anyway but Meaths stance on the whole issue meant that Dublin had to be treated equally in terms of getting walkovers.

Dublin didn't travel. They got official confirmation that the fixture was off at lunchtime on the Friday. They trained Thursday night as if they were preparing for the game.

Mr. Incognito

TBH I think Cork got off lightly. They could've been forced to forfeit all thir games.

popebenny16

At the end of the day, be it by way of the players or the county board, other counties were messed around and the integrity of the league was messed around. How they expected not to suffer some sort of sanction is beyond me.

The Chessplayer

cruiserweight wrote: »

To be honest, I think the only way to be fair to all of the other counties would be to throw Cork out of the league. That way no other team benefits or is at a disadvantage. If fixtures were replayed then the teams that have to replay are at a disadvantage. I would agree that part of this problem is teams refusing to replay fixtures, in this respect fair play to Kilkenny and shame on Meath.

I agree Cork should have been booted out of the league altogether. This would have been the only 100% fair decision.

Meath and Dublin were treated with utter contempt by Cork so I don't see why either county should accommodate Cork in any way. Kilkenny were just sticking their beak in where they had no business. Central Council needs to rule on these issues - not just a bunch of plonkers making their own minds up on fixtures.

Tomthepost

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I agree Cork should have been booted out of the league altogether. This would have been the only 100% fair decision.

Meath and Dublin were treated with utter contempt by Cork so I don't see why either county should accommodate Cork in any way. Kilkenny were just sticking their beak in where they had no business. Central Council needs to rule on these issues - not just a bunch of plonkers making their own minds up on fixtures.

What a mess!
The big problem here is that five of the football teams in div 2 will have to earn their 2 points against Cork whilst Dublin and Meath get 2 points for doing nothing.
If Dublin and Meath end up being the 2 promoted teams I think you will have alot of counties peed off about this.
I think that the fixtures should have been rearranged not for Cork but for the benefit of the 5 counties that have to play them.
Just image Cork beating Armagh by a point in round 7 and as a result Dublin get promoted.
Or even possibly Armagh beating Cork by 6 points and getting promoted on a better score difference then Dublin!

cruiserweight

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Meath and Dublin were treated with utter contempt by Cork so I don't see why either county should accommodate Cork in any way. Kilkenny were just sticking their beak in where they had no business. Central Council needs to rule on these issues - not just a bunch of plonkers making their own minds up on fixtures.

I think Kilkenny should be comended. They would rather play a hard game, test their players and get some practise, rather than being handed two points.

K-9

D. Coughlan wrote: »

How is it a disgrace, when the teams involved get two points for doing nothing, and cork start the league been 4 points down(in reality) already. At Least Kilkenny have a heart:)http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0220/cork.html

Eh, because 5 teams don't get points for doing nothing!

This strike has affected other counties, not just Cork!

I don't see how people can say the 4 counties who got 2 free points each are saying they're disadvantaged. They have 2 guarenteed points, very important come relegation/promotion.

Good post Tomthepost, this will have effects on the final day. Was a point difference awarded to the other counties?

TirEoghain

molby14 wrote: »

meath offered cork an extra week to sort there problems out and it was thrown back in there face
cork are to blame no one else

I suppose the other thing is that if Meath were to wait much longer to allow the refixture, then they would end up having to play Cork with the Nemo Rangers players on the team too, and therefore more chance of conceding the points.

Mullet

In my opinion Cork got off lightly. I have not heard one apology from the Cork County Board or the players for the way other counties were messed around. Supporters who had booked flights/trains and accomodation have been left out of pocket over it. The silence from Nickey Brennan has been deafening over the whole episode.

cruiserweight

Cork footballers played a challenge game against Wexford over the weekend. Don't know if it was their first game back, but it probably was. Cork fielded a very strong team and won. Wexford only played a few possible starters, and were mainly trying out players.

will1977

cruiserweight wrote: »

Cork footballers played a challenge game against Wexford over the weekend. Don't know if it was their first game back, but it probably was. Cork fielded a very strong team and won. Wexford only played a few possible starters, and were mainly trying out players.

Cork were missing all their Nemo players

cruiserweight

will1977 wrote: »

Cork were missing all their Nemo players

Teams were

CORK: A Quirke; D Duggan, G Canty, K O’Connor; N O’Leary, G Spillane, A Lynch; N Murphy, A O’Connor; J Miskella (1-0), K McMahon, P Kelly (0-1); J Hayes, D O’Connor (0-3, 0-1 free), K O’Sullivan (1-2).
Subs: K O’Halloran for Quirke; M Prout for K O’Connor; E Sexton for O’Leary; S O’Donoghoe for Lynch; R O’Sullivan for Spillane; C McCarthy for McMahon; D Hurley for Murphy; A O’Sullivan for Miskella.

WEXFORD: A Cullen; T Wall, M Hanrahan,D Walsh; G. Sunderland, D Murphy, N O’Sullivan; P Colfer (0-2), B. Doyle; G Brilly, P Curtis, J Mernagh (0-1); C Lyng (0-2), C Byrne, P Byrne.
Subs: M Forde (0-2, 0-1 free) for Byrne; C Morris (0-1) for Wall; A Morrissey for Curtis; A Flynn for Brilly; E Bradley for Colfer; A Masterson for Cullen; A Doyle for O’Sullivan; P Wallace for Hanrahan.

rebs23

Mullet wrote: »

I have not heard one apology from the Cork County Board

Bob Honohan the Cork delegate to the CCC apologised on behalf of Cork to the other counties.

popebenny16

rebs23 wrote: »

Bob Honohan the Cork delegate to the CCC apologised on behalf of Cork to the other counties.

Behind closed doors at the CCC?

Wheres the press release of an apology then?