Marian apparitions

branie

Anyone believe in them, or are you merely skeptical?

6th

Bit more info and what does "merely skeptical" mean?

branie

Marian apparitions are visions of the Virgin Mary at places such as Lourdes and Fatima. "Merely skeptical means" that a person does not believe in them, or has an alternate explantion as to what has happened in such an experience.

6th

Well I dont know enough about them to believe them or dismiss them straight off. I have experienced unexplained phenomenon myself but I dont think that because of that I should take every case as genuine.

Were there many eye witnesses? Any photos taken etc?

branie

In the case of Lourdes, one girl had 18 apparations, whilst 3 three children in fatima had 13. there were no photos taken on these occasions.

speaktofrank

What about the one in Knock? Aboy 10-20 people saw something.

LostinBlanch

Well the one major difference between KNock and Lourdes / Medugorje is that the apparition in Knock didn't say anything. Apparently there was an Italian performer who was going round the country with his magic lantern i.e. a precursor to early film projector, he was staying in Knock at that time. The vision was supposed to have been seen on a wall. So maybe that had something to do with it.

I saw all this on a programme on RTE about 10 years ago.

Firewalk

Not being the slightest bit religious, these things aren't my cup of tea, in fact I think there are people operating in this country making money(from donations) off the back of supposed visions of Mary, and that being the case I find these people despicable. However...

There's a guy who lives near me that went to the same school as me. This guy was a real jerk, I mean a complete a**hole. I lost count of how many times I had fights and arguments with him and he was like that with a lot of people. He was also always in trouble, he fancied himself as a hardman and as such got himself into all the s**t he could (drugs, fighting, petty crime).

Anyway, I moved away for a couple of years and never heard any more about him until I moved back to the place I'm from. My wife is a nurse and she was telling me a story about this guy that worked at the hospital who was hyper religious and kept telling everyone about the 'vision' he had and how great god was etc...

It turned out to be the same guy! He had gone on a trip to medjugorje as a carer with some very sick people from the hospital and while there had a vision of Mary! My wife said while he told her the story he started crying!
He also now attends mass every morning before he goes to work.

I'm not the type of person who laughs at people but remembering what a total d*ck he used to be I couldn't help but chuckle at the thought of himself and the virgin Mary.:D But, in saying that, he has changed completely and hasn't been in trouble for years and wheras I don't believe in this stuff myself it seemed to have worked on at least one person.

Dave!

I'm "merely skeptical" I'm afraid. Ask a psychologist about imagination, hallucination, group psychology, wishful thinking, and so on.....

faceman

I never knew they were called marian apparitions!

I remember many years ago in school, a science teacher demonstrated how hey could make a statue "move" (or perceive to move) and also make it "cry". Since then i was always very skeptical about moving statue tales and faces in the walls or on toast.

However, all of the stories the one that i do believe in and do still frighten me are Medjugorje and fatima. I watched many documentaries on the apparitions and read books too. I often think about it actually. I used to work with a girl who was quite religious but not in a weird way. She had visited there a few times and had some remarkable tales to tell.

There is a sign to appear within the lifetime of the 6 people who Our Lady visited in Medjugorje which is to be proof for the athesists. Although Our Lady has said that the faithful should not wait until then to convert. She has being visiting those 6 people since 1981 i think. What worries me, aside from the chastisement that could be cast down, there will be 3 warnings from God before the sign is delivered. Its the warnings that have scared me since i was a child. One of the warnings is that we will see our sins from the eyes of God and it will be very disturbing...

Sister lucia in fatima was also told of such warnings.

There were medical and scientific studies done on the 6 children in Medjugorje.

The only thing that always bothered me thought about it was that I had always believed from the bible that after the floods, God told Noah he wouldnt cause such acts again. Maybe i interpreted it wrong though.

Dave!

faceman wrote: »

There is a sign to appear within the lifetime of the 6 people who Our Lady visited in Medjugorje which is to be proof for the athesists.

What do you mean by this? Could you elaborate por favor?

faceman

DaveMcG wrote: »

What do you mean by this? Could you elaborate por favor?

taken from the www.medjugorje.org as its the only literature i have available to me. They also post the Our Lady's dialogue there too.

wrote:

Our Lady has promised to leave a supernatural, indestructible, and visible sign on the mountain where she first appeared. She said: "This sign will be given for the atheists. You faithful already have signs and you have become the sign for the atheists. You faithful must not wait for the sign before you convert; convert soon. This time is a time of grace for you. You can never thank God enough for His grace. The time is for deepening your faith and for your conversion. When the sign comes, it will be too late for many."

It is said that "those who live" will witness healing from the sign. Nobody knows what form the sign will take.

Hal1

Who remembers the moving statue in Ballinspittle in west cork? It was headline news for ages. I was takin to see it when I was 8 or 9, Im now 30 :O

Dave!

faceman wrote: »

taken from the www.medjugorje.org as its the only literature i have available to me. They also post the Our Lady's dialogue there too.



It is said that "those who live" will witness healing from the sign. Nobody knows what form the sign will take.

Cheers

Sounds a bit dodge to me though..... but I'll not get into it!

nicelives

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Well the one major difference between KNock and Lourdes / Medugorje is that the apparition in Knock didn't say anything. Apparently there was an Italian performer who was going round the country with his magic lantern i.e. a precursor to early film projector, he was staying in Knock at that time. The vision was supposed to have been seen on a wall. So maybe that had something to do with it.

I saw all this on a programme on RTE about 10 years ago.

I heard that as well but from a different source. Apparently the parish priest was stressed about the incredible amount of alcohol abuse in Knock at the time, someone had just been hung to death as a result in recent weeks. The Italian with the magic lantern may have been hired to project the multiple images of saints, lambs and Mary onto the flat gable wall by the parish priest. The same priest who couldn't be found by the multiple locals who saw the images on that night.
In a world without electricity or cinema, this would have been an amazing phenomenon.
When the Vatican were researching whether or not this was a genuine miracle or not they did look into the possibility of a magic lantern, they checked where the two magic lanterns owned by two Catholic firms were on hire in the country at the time. They didn't check the Church of Ireland firm nor would it seem a traveling Italian.

Knock today though is an interesting space, although I've found it very clerical on one level, there is an interesting and intense energy present there created I presume by peoples' faith.
People have experienced super-human cures there. God/love/intense Spiritual Presence obviously woks in any area of the world no matter what its history. The extra faith created by the 'vision' whether true or fabricated for genuine reasons really can create changes I/we still find amazing in this world of limits.

RhinoG

If anyone's interested there is an amazing book called "The Miracle Detective" by Randall O Sullivan, an american journalist, detailing marion visions around the world particularly dealing with Medugoria. He spent 8 years researching it and it is facinating stuff, really made me think twice.

knowall

Since the 21st August 1879 people have been trying to debunk the apparition at Knock.Various theories were put forward by different people at the time but all were proven to be without foundation.Lets look at the Italian with the magic lantern,which seems to be the most logical explanation offered.If such a person visited Knock at the invitation of the parish priest,how did he set up his equiptment without being seen by the witnesses.After all he would have to be standing in front of them with a lighted lantern.Also he would need a huge screen attached to the gable of the church to project his images.And lastly he would not be able to project the kind of image that was seen at Knock,which were lifelike.I would suggest that anyone seeking information on this apparition to visit the museum at Knock and see for yourself the testemonies of the witnesses.Also you might visit Zeitoun.org a city in egypt where you can see images of the virgin Mary appearing,This phenomina was witnessed by almost a million people.

nicelives

knowall wrote: »

all he would have to be standing in front of them with a lighted lantern.Also he would need a huge screen attached to the gable of the church to project his images.

Wouldn't have thought you'd need a screen, I'm no projectionist but i have projected images onto all sorts of surfaces including gable walls. Knock would have been incredibly dark by today's standards without the benefit of electrification so I wouldn't have thought he would have had to be too close. The car park, basilica, seats and conservatory are all added since, imagine there would have been somewhere to hide.

knowall wrote: »

would suggest that anyone seeking information on this apparition to visit the museum at Knock and see for yourself the testemonies of the witnesses.Also you might visit Zeitoun.org a city in egypt where you can see images of the virgin Mary appearing,This phenomina was witnessed by almost a million people.

Have visited Knock, quite a nice and peaceful place, believe in Marian apparitions but just wondering if Knock is one of them or if something else happened there that night.

jawlie

branie wrote: »

Marian apparitions are visions of the Virgin Mary at places such as Lourdes and Fatima. "Merely skeptical means" that a person does not believe in them, or has an alternate explantion as to what has happened in such an experience.

Sceptical (or the American way of spelling it skeptical), applies to someone who looks for evidence before believing in something.

Cynical applies to a person who will not believe, even with evidence.

Credulous applies to a person who believes without evidence.