Conflict my own beliefs and those of my family

salfriz

Hi all, I just have a question for which i would appreciate any suggested resolutions. I was christened a catholic, raised a catholic and went to catholic schools. My family parents and siblings are all religious as in they attend church each sunday etc, although one of my brothers has told me he goes to avoid the hassle and arguements he'd have to endure if he didn't. I myself have no religous beliefs or practices whatsoever and have no interest in adopting any. Anyway, the problem is that at some time in the future a wedding, funeral, christening, etc will occur in my family and they may expect me to attend it. I will be forced to not attend and face the reactions of my family or attend the church services and stand up, kneel down, bow my head, join my hands, stand in que waiting for sacrements, profess or appear to profess a belief i do not share and resist the urge to argue with the priest. I don't wish to offend anyone with this analogy, but to make it clearer, imagine your family joined a cult who believed we were put here by aliens from the moon and that we would return there when we died and they expected you to participate in their rituals. I don't want to be a hypocrite and i love my family. So..What to do??...thanks

philologos

Is it really that big a deal to go to some church service really? What harm can it do if you don't believe in it? To top it off you might save a whole load of conflict in your family over the issue also.

salfriz

Yeah i think it is a big deal. I mean is avoiding conflict and people pleasing a good enough reason to do things which you disagree with. Can you empathise with the moon aliens analogy? In such a case most people would try to persuade or force their family to give up their beliefs rather than join in them for the sake of peace but i think thats out of the question in this case.

salfriz

Well i think it is a big deal. Should we really do things we disagree with in order to avoid conflict and upsetting peoples feelings. To go back to the moon aliens analogy, most people would try to persuade or even force their family to give up their beliefs(not an option in this case) and would feel uncomfortable about joining them in their rituals and practices..

Zombrex

Its a bit of a fine art, but it is possible to attend things like funerals without participating in things you are uncomfortable with. For example, just sit down the back and just listen, don't get up knee down sing etc if you are uncomfortable with doing that.

Thats what I do.

Its the same with something like Grace, some of my extended family say Grace at dinner. I don't pray, nor do I make the gesture of praying as they do. I don't say "Amen" at the end. I don't even close my eyes. But I am silent as they do and I certainly wouldn't eat food until they have finished saying Grace. I just sit there head slightly bowed down hands on my lap until they are finished. I don't say Grace, I am respectively waiting for them to say Grace. Then we can eat.

Likewise with funeral masses. You don't have to "do mass", you can just wait, respectfully, in the church with them till they are finished.

PDN

Be honest about who you are and what you believe. Don't act like a hypocrite just to please your family. If they really love you then they'll accept you for who you are.

I faced a similar dilemma when I became a Christian, and sometimes it was a struggle to tread that fine line between hiding my beliefs and just provoking my family. Be true to yourself. There are enough hypocrites in the church without you adding one more to the number.

robindch

salfriz wrote: »

Anyway, the problem is that at some time in the future a wedding, funeral, christening, etc will occur in my family and they may expect me to attend it. I will be forced to not attend and face the reactions of my family or attend the church services and stand up, kneel down, bow my head, join my hands, stand in que waiting for sacrements, profess or appear to profess a belief i do not share and resist the urge to argue with the priest.

Wicknight's solution is pretty much the same as mine. When you must, for whatever reason, go along to some religious service then sit with the rest of your family as you'd do otherwise, but don't say the prayers; stand with your arms folded when everybody else stands; don't kneel; don't laugh if you can help it and don't join the queue for biscuits; enjoy the music if possible, and leave after half-time if you want to.

You can compare it to being an known teetotaller who's been invited to a party in a pub. You can certainly go along in good conscience and even enjoy what you can of it, but it's unreasonable to be expected to drink alcohol when everybody knows you don't.

And as PDN says -- twice in one day, we agree! -- there are many people in churches who lack the courage to do what they know is right. Congrats on breaking free. It's not easy.

Xhristy

This post has been deleted.

Evolute

You do not have to bow kneel or any of that if you do not wish and you most certainly do not have to recieve sacraments if you do not wish

Nerin

yeah,i also agree with the posts saying you dont have to participate.
i went until i was 18 to appease my grandparents,my mother knew it wasnt what i believed in, and she really doesnt mind that i havent gone to sunday mass since.
i'll go for funerals etc but dont participate.
i havent taken communion since i was 14 or 15 either, i told my mam if she (as a divorcee) wasnt supposed to take it i certainly wouldnt.
op how old are you?

robindch

Wicknight wrote: »

Its the same with something like Grace, some of my extended family say Grace at dinner.

...which reminds me of a year or two back when an female relative (knowing full-well I was an atheist ) tried to skewer me by asking me to say grace-before-meals. So I delivered the following:

robindch, over dinner wrote:

I give thanks to our parents who produced us, the earth which sustains us and the sun which powers us. And I raise a still-living finger to the Second Law which will consume us, as surely as we consume this meal. Enjoy!

Mysteriously, invitations to say grace dried up after that.

salfriz

Having thought about it again i dont think i,d have any second thoughts about not attending weddings or christenings. My absence at funerals however might get peoples backs up a little more. They might assume that i had no respect for the deceased..however i prefer to show my respect for people while they're alive and capable of appreciating it instead of engaging in conditioned responses over a lump of meat. To those who say i should attend and not participate, what purpose does that serve apart from pretending to be somone i am not in order to gain acceptance. I also think it would be difficult to sit and watch people i care about blindly following the teachings and accepting without question the opinions of their organization.

PDN

salfriz wrote: »

To those who say i should attend and not participate, what purpose does that serve apart from pretending to be somone i am not in order to gain acceptance. I also think it would be difficult to sit and watch people i care about blindly following the teachings and accepting without question the opinions of their organization.

I don't think it would be pretending anything. You can make it clear that you are attending because you love and respect the family members who are celebrating a birth, mourning a death, celebrating a marriage etc.

It may be difficult to watch people you care about blindly following something you disagree with - but tolerance is a two way street. If you aren't prepared to allow your family to exercise their religious beliefs without getting all outraged and judgmental about it, then you can't really expect them to be tolerant of your beliefs, can you?

CaptainNemo

It's a good question, but if you're secure in your unbelief then sitting through some meaningless rituals should be easy enough for you as a way of being close to your family at speciall times.

CerebralCortex

PDN wrote: »

I don't think it would be pretending anything. You can make it clear that you are attending because you love and respect the family members who are celebrating a birth, mourning a death, celebrating a marriage etc.

It may be difficult to watch people you care about blindly following something you disagree with - but tolerance is a two way street. If you aren't prepared to allow your family to exercise their religious beliefs without getting all outraged and judgmental about it, then you can't really expect them to be tolerant of your beliefs, can you?

Go when you feel like your family needs you to be there and don't participate like me which means very little time is spent in a church if none at all. I was in a church twice last year I think due to a death in my family.

Black Swan

I was raised Catholic pretty much like you. And now the roof would fall on top of me if I entered a church!

We all do things at times that are unpleasant for us in consideration for others feelings? As another poster mentioned, if you are secure in your unbelief, why turn mole hills into mountains?

If you were brutally honest with everyone all the time, you would not have many relatives that would want you around, or friends for that matter?

"Gee B!ue, since they cut off your hair for surgery, you really look like sh*t!" Maybe they do look like that, and it would be dishonest to tell them otherwise, but would you do it, or just avoid saying it, and comfort them until they get better and their hair grows back? You don't have to lie, or cut your hair off too...

salfriz

I am secure in what i believe but the point of the matter is, why should i attend services which are meaningless to me in order to please others who believe that it is only right that i should be there..and most likely pray that i will come around to their way of thinkng. Also, yes, i agree that tolerance is a two way street, i am tolerant of what my family believe in and have never tried to convince them otherwise..infact i would say that a belief in god may even enrich their lives regardless of the truth in it. However they on occasion have shown intolerance of my unbeilief and tried to "win me back" Why wouldn't they..they,r'e teaching bids them to do it. Finally i agree that we have to do things that are unpleasant for us to spare peoples feelings and blunt honesty is,n't always appropriate..as in "you look like ****. Maybe i should attend mass every sunday, tell the priest all my secrets once a month, wait in line for bread, and maybe do the odd pilgramage to knock..if i'm going to set aside my feelings to make people feel good, why not go the whole hog and make them feel great!

seamus

salfriz wrote: »

I am secure in what i believe but the point of the matter is, why should i sit attend services which are meaningless to me in order to please others who believe that it is only right that i should be there..and most likely pray that i will come around to their way of thinkng.

Well, then don't go. To a certain extent, you have avoid paying lip service, unless it's something that you want to do.

In my opinion, participating in a mass where you have no intention to participate and where you in fact completely disagree with it, is more disrepectful to that religion than not going at all. Of course, if you sit there in silence and don't participate, you get the best of both worlds to a certain extent - you're not disrespecting their beliefs by falsely participating but you're attending, which is what your family want.

In the context of funerals and weddings, I will happily attend mass for these occasions. I don't participate, but I do attend because I want to celebrate the event in the way that that person wants to celebrate it. And if they want me to be there while they celebrate that event in their life/death, then I will be.

It's uncomfortable to do the first few times - yes you do stand out to those around you and it can be hard to overcome 15/16 years of religious in doctrination. But if you look at it as an educational experience - try to view the mass as an outsider - I actually find the whole thing quite fascinating sometimes.

salfriz

I see what your saying..but to watch people close to you being so gullible kinda takes away from the fascination aspect. In a way aswell i think by just attending, you are participating..at least physically even if your mind is elsewhere. Attending because the person wants you to join in their celebration seems like a good compromise but if you took up juadism or islam would you expect your freinds and family to attend ceremonies that were important to you and would you be justified in taking offence if they refused?

CaptainNemo

salfriz wrote: »

I see what your saying..but to watch people close to you being so gullible kinda takes away from the fascination aspect. In a way aswell i think by just attending, you are participating..at least physically even if your mind is elsewhere. Attending because the person wants you to join in their celebration seems like a good compromise but if you took up juadism or islam would you expect your freinds and family to attend ceremonies that were important to you and would you be justified in taking offence if they refused?

It's really up to you what you should do, what your family will be OK with, what you can live with yourself, and what's being asked of you. If you're not happy doing something then weight up HOW unhappy you are about it against what you would be sacrificing, and accept the consequences. There's no right answer to this one, it depends on what situation you want to create.

seamus

salfriz wrote: »

I see what your saying..but to watch people close to you being so gullible kinda takes away from the fascination aspect.

You're probably a little young, but you need to allow people to live their own lives. Let them be gullible if that's what you think they're being. The only person whose actions you can control are your own, so don't be upset or offended on behalf of other people, because there's nothing you can or should do about their choices.

In a way aswell i think by just attending, you are participating..at least physically even if your mind is elsewhere.

Not really. You're only participating if you believe you're participating. The entire concept of religion is grounded in faith, so even if you're doing all the actions, that doesn't imply that you're participating. In order to celebrate in the mass, you need to believe that you are eating the flesh of Jesus, otherwise all you're doing is eating some cheap papery rubbish.

It's when others seek to pretend that they believe (and therefore pretend to participate) that I believe they are disrespecting the beliefs of the other participants.

if you took up juadism or islam would you expect your freinds and family to attend ceremonies that were important to you and would you be justified in taking offence if they refused?

Well, to take a better example - if I had a good friend who was islamic or jewish and wanted me to attend a significant event of their life in their place of worship, then I would do that too.

I personally don't believe that annoyance is justified if a friend refuses to do something that you've requested them to do - you just need to re-examine whether or not they're as close to you as you are to them. But that's irrelevant here.

Soul Winner

salfriz wrote: »

Hi all, I just have a question for which i would appreciate any suggested resolutions. I was christened a catholic, raised a catholic and went to catholic schools. My family parents and siblings are all religious as in they attend church each sunday etc, although one of my brothers has told me he goes to avoid the hassle and arguements he'd have to endure if he didn't. I myself have no religous beliefs or practices whatsoever and have no interest in adopting any. Anyway, the problem is that at some time in the future a wedding, funeral, christening, etc will occur in my family and they may expect me to attend it. I will be forced to not attend and face the reactions of my family or attend the church services and stand up, kneel down, bow my head, join my hands, stand in que waiting for sacrements, profess or appear to profess a belief i do not share and resist the urge to argue with the priest. I don't wish to offend anyone with this analogy, but to make it clearer, imagine your family joined a cult who believed we were put here by aliens from the moon and that we would return there when we died and they expected you to participate in their rituals. I don't want to be a hypocrite and i love my family. So..What to do??...thanks

Live your convictions. Speak your mind. Demand respect for what you believe and respect others for what they believe. If a friend who is of another religion invites you to an event that involves you participating in rituals that go against your own beliefs then refuse to go on that basis and explain why in a respectful way and try not to offend. But if the event requires only your presence because the inviters would like you to be there as a friend then I would suggest to go out of respect to those friends but explain to them that you are just there because you were invited as a friend and that you will not participate in any ritual that contradicts your beliefs and make sure they agree. Once these ground rules are established then everyone can go and have a good time.

But in relation to your family and Mass going etc now that's a different story. Explain to them that you don't subscribe to the Catholic Church's religion and that you refuse to participate in something you don't believe in and to let's agree to disagree on the rights and wrongs of it and leave it at that. Live and let live. But for Christenings, Funerals and Weddings just adopt the same approach as you would for the aforementioned religious events that your friends of other religions may invite you to and lay down the same ground rules with your family. I like Wicknight’s approach when it comes to saying grace, you don’t have to get involved in the act just be quiet and respectful while the others do it.

If I invite a friend to my Church as a guest and he accepts then the only thing I would tell him to do while he is in the Church is to respect the house rules. And they are simple, to sit up straight in his seat and to keep quiet. If he finds himself not interested in the proceedings half way through then either look interested or excuse himself politely and leave but don't disrupt the meeting to voice his objections. Keep whatever questions he has until the time for questions which would be after the meeting. Then he can ask all the questions he likes providing he does so in a respectful manner.

tolosenc

Do as I do.

At my granddad's funeral I carried the coffin in and out, but during the service, I just sat and waited.