Driving through pedestrian lights

elekid

Bit of a rant here, but anyway.. I recently started a new job which requires me to walk from Connolly Station to Phibsboro every day and I'm becoming increasingly shocked at the amount of cars that blatantly drive through pedestrian lights. I don't even mean stopping right in the crossing zone and trying to continue as if they hadn't done anything wrong when space opens up in front, I mean completely ignoring the red light and continuing as they were, sometimes even beeping/shouting at pedestrians!

Pedestrian crossings are frustrating enough as it is without having to walk out in front of moving cars with one hand up in the hope that they will stop just so you can cross the road. I've also noticed that if one car slips through the ones behind usually try to follow as if it's suddenly become ok! The worst came yesterday when I was out for a walk in Portmarnock village and a driver not only tried to drive through the lights but revved the engine and drove forward threateningly when I walked out. I've come to expect it in the city centre in heavy traffic but I was pretty shocked by that!

Has anyone else noticed this becoming a more common occurence? (In fairness most cars do stop and wait, but the idea that the green man no longer actually means "safe to cross" is really starting to get to me)

ardmacha

This follows on from people who turn left, at junctions where there is only a straight ahead arrow initially to give pedestrians time to cross. Simple cure, put a Garda there the odd time, if people are done for this or see someone else done for it, then it will become much less common and you can't say everyone is doing it.

FruitLover

elekid wrote: »

yesterday when I was out for a walk in Portmarnock village and a driver not only tried to drive through the lights but revved the engine and drove forward threateningly when I walked out

Should have kicked his wing mirror off. This kind of thing really irritates me, as do idiots who stop on clearboxes (is that what the yellow crosshatch boxes at junctions are called?) in heavy traffic, then get caught there when the light goes red, causing drivers who now have a green light to beep at them, and causing the morons stuck on the yellow box to try to drive through the line of pedestrians now crossing at the red light.

Zoney

elekid:

Quite the reverse, in my experience motorists are respecting even Zebra crossings more and more these days (i.e. stopping for pedestrians starting to cross rather than merely not running over pedestrians already on the crossing). However, I'm in Limerick not Dublin.

liamo

I've also experienced idiot drivers who have completely ignored pedestrian lights. Their attitude stinks of "My time is more important than yours. Get out of my way, you stupid pedestrian."

However, in the interest of balance, I have also experienced this with cyclists. Indeed, I would venture that there are far more cyclists who are guilty of this. Granted, a cyclist isn't likely to squash you flat however it's still an offense.

Also, there is no shortage of pedestrians who will walk out in front of traffic and expect everyone to stop for them.

In conclusion, stupidity on the road is not restricted to one group of users.

dazberry

Its one of my major hates - it drives me fnuking mad :mad:

I live in Inchicore, and there's a particular set of pedestrian lights on Tyconnell Rd that appear to some drivers as being optional. A lot of it is down to such a poor sense of awareness its truly shocking. It was such a bad problem that there was talk of putting cameras there. I've had to yield on the crossing a number of times to idiots too preoccupied to notice red traffic lights, green pedestrian lights, and people half way across.

The other bain of my pedestrian life is the lights at the IFSC on the South Quays turning left onto the Matt Talbot bridge. Apparently the sequence is green - go, amber - speed up, red - slip thru' quick and red - stop. During the red - slip thru' quick phase - while the drivers are so busy looking to beat the traffic coming from Amiens St., they tend to forget about the pedestrian lights. Not all of them mind, had one guy give me a sort of "thanks for not stepping out on a green pedestrian light so I can break these here red lights" sort of wave - I wasn't being nice - its called self preservation.

D.

elekid

liamo wrote: »

In conclusion, stupidity on the road is not restricted to one group of users.

Definitely not. The other thing I often see is crazy pedestrians walking out in front of moving traffic and assuming that the drivers will stop, just to save themselves a few seconds. It's so dangerous. I always wait for the green man, even if the road is reasonably clear, which I guess is why it bothers me so much if someone drives through it

Stark

All boils down to lack of enforcement of traffic laws. They know they won't get caught and with pedestrian lights they don't have the threat of getting side-rammed so they do it.

That said, I've been tempted on many occasions to run the red light at empty pedestrian crossings. You know the ones with the really long delays that cause the pedestrians to get fed up waiting, cross on their own accord and then eventually the light changes as you come to it and you're left sitting there for no good reason. Of course, there's a simple solution to that problem, put a shorter delay and flashing ambers on the lights.

Victor

Carry a folded newspaper or an umbrella in your hand in front of you, such that they are likely to hit it or pass close to it if they continue through the red light. Do not use it as a weapon.

Lizzykins

I work in Rathmines and would agree that many motorists do ignore pedestrian lights. Where I cross the road at Rathmines church is an absolute pain as you could wait several minutes for the "green man". Added to that are the morons who run the red light. What I have taken to doing is waiting until the traffic is completely stopped. Has saved life and limb many's the time! Pity there wouldn't be a guards posted there the odd time!

daymobrew

This thread has lots of witnesses to lots of offences? How many of you report these incidents to the Gardai?

I used to report stuff to TrafficWatch so often the operators recognised my voice I've pretty much given up because the Gardai rarely follow up. Some day I'll collect all my reports (I made notes of each) and write to the Garda Commissioner (I've done that before).

trellheim

Definitely not. The other thing I often see is crazy pedestrians walking out in front of moving traffic and assuming that the drivers will stop

You may not be aware of it, but in certain cases the pedestrian has right of way.

Consider; at Ranelagh/Grand Parade [ the Canal Bridge ] there are no pedestrian lights [at all ]

In these cases the rules of the road [ the real ones ] apply

which you can find at

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a8

ardmacha

This would seem to a job for a camera, some kind of motion sensitive camera that can detect anything, including bicycles, proceeding through the light. The camera would photograph any motion when the light was red. Points for anyone so photographed, although you'd need to position the camera carefully to make sure that it could deal with bumper to bumper traffic. Even a flash would do a lot to reduce this, even if the images were only sampled.

Carawaystick

The OP could report the cars in mountjoy station in person- it's probably not a million miles off route from Phibsboro to Connolly. It'll hardly have less effect than telling us here...

Stimpyone

I was over-taken at a Zebra crossing the other day!!. :eek:

I was stopped, letting pedestrians pass ( happened to be women with buggies and a bunch of other kids ) when all of a sudden zoooooommmmm.

Some mad woman in a Renault Scenic nearly took them all out ( and I mean it was really really close ). I was gobsmaked:eek:

cc

i was in athens in 2002 and the crossings there ment nothing at all as in a lot of southern europe! drivers beeping at me the first day when i walked on one and i noticed no one was slowing even if they were a good bit away. Thought to myself at least in ireland they always stop, ah well!

daymobrew

cc wrote: »

i was in athens in 2002 and the crossings there ment nothing at all as in a lot of southern europe!

Similar in Naples - just shadow a local as they cross the road.

Stimpyone - Which Garda station did you report the incident to? TrafficWatch might be handier - 1890-205-805.
Yes, I am trying to annoy people into action - complaining here will not change anything.

seamus

You see this happen a lot on the Rathmines road with the junction at Military road. The lights go red, everyone stops and some dumb bint coming out of Military road thinks everyone has stopped for her and just turns straight out and through the pedestrian lights.

trellheim

I thought Traffic watch had fallen by the roadside [ apologies for pun ]

let's take this battle to the motors forum .

Tazdedub

This is just one of the many other rules that drivers are breaking. I dont whether its just where I live but people rather than drive round the roundabout to get to their exit will simply just turn right into their exit, then their is the lack of indicator use by most drivers and all the other crazy stuff going on.

Yes I have reported this to the gardai especially driving the wrong way on the roundabout but nothing has been done and I even had photos. The main problem is that the gardai don't have the manpower to enforce the law on the road, simply having a guard at a set of lights, or pulling someone over for not using their indicators would make some people stop and think.

Stark

A Kiwi friend of mine was telling me that they started enforcing the use of indicators on roundabouts in New Zealand a while back. Tbh, with all the mad **** that goes on every day, I reckon indicators would be fairly low on the list of offences.

Stimpyone

daymobrew wrote: »

Similar in Naples - just shadow a local as they cross the road.

Stimpyone - Which Garda station did you report the incident to? TrafficWatch might be handier - 1890-205-805.
Yes, I am trying to annoy people into action - complaining here will not change anything.

Don't remember mentioning that I reported it to the Guards?

To be honest she was gone so quick, and there was a quick round of "are you alright" with the pedestrians, so there was little time to get her number.

The incident happened on the pedestrian crossing ( which is raised by the way )outside the Clare Hall SC. New model black Renault Scenic Grande and she had the car full of kids herself.

Good luck with the Guards in Coolock with those details.:rolleyes:

daymobrew

Stimpyone wrote: »

Don't remember mentioning that I reported it to the Guards?

To be honest she was gone so quick, and there was a quick round of "are you alright" with the pedestrians, so there was little time to get her number.

It was a rhetorical question. I knew that you hadn't reported it to the Gardai. I've gotten into the habit of noting car details when I see something.
Without reporting incidents people like this and this will remain 'at large'.

Colonel Sanders

liamo wrote: »

In conclusion, stupidity on the road is not restricted to one group of users.

Agree 100%.

I've only been driving about 6 months but some of the maniacs you see on the road are, in a word, dangerous. This morning a traffic light had gone red at least 30 seconds (to let pedestrians cross) when the car in front of me broke the red light. There were people just about to step off the footpath as he broke it, another few seconds and he could wll have hit them.

Altho the worst I've ever seen was a motorist, early 20s by the look of him, driving down pierse st. Ran a red light (where pierse ts intersects westland row) and jsut turned right (the wrong way onto a one way st). At no point did he slow down or even look to see if anything was coming. Luckily for him and anyone else who drives in this area it was late at night with very little traffic on the road.

Won't bore you with more details as I'm sure you've all seen the type of behavious I've seen in Dublin.

However I have lost count of pedestrians who just, out of nowhere, walk across the road when red men are on the pedestrian lights. Most don't evn look and if you beep at them you either get them sticking fingers up at you or a foul mouthed response.

MOH

The pedstrian lights at Tara St/Georges Quay are my favourite, used to cross there every day. You regularly get cars bombing along Tara st across the bridge going through just after the (pedestrian) lights have gone green.
On the other hand, if traffic is bad they'll just sit there after the lights change blocking the pedestrian crossing. Occasionally you get a real moron who, being so far forward that he's almost blocking the left lane along the quays, and presumable in fear of getting his car scratched, decides to reverse back a bit, into the pedestrians who have been forced to walk around behind his car.

I've seen this happening regularly even when there's guards standing on the junction. They don't give a damn. There's zero point reporting it to the Gardai.

Nightwish

I got hit by a car on the corner of Dorset st & North Frederick st when I was in my final year of college. I was crossing the road (green man on of course) and some posh tart in a big black jeep broke the red light and made the (illegal) turn left and drove into me.

Stark

Ouch. Were you badly hurt? Those bloody jeep things have are apalling for their pedestrian safety ratings, especially when they've those fashion bars on front.

Nightwish

Not at all actually. I saw her coming for me, so I ran but I got knocked to the ground. I just got up and abused the f*ck out of her. The cow didnt even apologise and drove off.

Zoney

MOH wrote: »

I've seen this happening regularly even when there's guards standing on the junction. They don't give a damn. There's zero point reporting it to the Gardai.

Nevermind that, I've seen the guards themselves just drive through a red light, not with sirens or anything. Admittedly late at night when most people would break them, but it's hardly upholding the law.

Red Alert

The cyclists are deadful for disobeying traffic lights of all sorts. And they abuse you get if you cut out in front of them is ridiculous.

daymobrew

Red Alert wrote: »

The cyclists are deadful for disobeying traffic lights of all sorts. And they abuse you get if you cut out in front of them is ridiculous.

Yeah when I cycle I'm dreadful for disobeying traffic ... because I stop at red lights [I was exploiting your double negative]

This generalisation was already covered. Though liamo's conclusion did show some balance.

Decuc500

I've had two instances where cars have run through pedestrian crossings on a green man narrowly missing me while beeping and pointing up at the green man! How do these people pass their driving tests?

I regularly use the pedestrian crossing outside the Dail and have seen a few cars (and more than a few cyclists!) breaking the red light. Let's face it, if they can get away with it in front of the garda who is on duty there every day it's not something the gardai are intent on clamping down on.

FruitLover

trellheim wrote: »

You may not be aware of it, but in certain cases the pedestrian has right of way.

Consider; at Ranelagh/Grand Parade [ the Canal Bridge ] there are no pedestrian lights [at all ]

In these cases the rules of the road [ the real ones ] apply

Interesting; I saw someone get knocked over by a car on this very bridge just a few weeks ago - I doubt the fact that they had the right of way was much consolation to them in the ambulance!

trellheim

open to the forum then, when should pedestrians cross at this bridge

[ hint : that is why no right turns at ALL are allowed at that bridge ]

Victor

Zoney wrote: »

Nevermind that, I've seen the guards themselves just drive through a red light, not with sirens or anything. Admittedly late at night when most people would break them, but it's hardly upholding the law.

Most of the Road Traffic Acts don't appply to the garda.

Are you suggesting that if they are watching someone suspicious (on foot) that they should use lights and sirens going through traffic lights?

ardmacha

Most of the Road Traffic Acts don't appply to the garda.

Which is how it should be. However there should be a clear disciplinary policy in the Gardai to show good example, when the situation isn't urgent. We have had continuing examples of the use of Garda drivers for Ministers being used as a licence to speed, use bus lanes and a host of other infractions which were not required by an urgent situation.

Johnnio13

Saw a taxi driver racing down the bus lane on the inside of the traffic as it turns onto Lincoln Place towards Pease Street Dart Station, lights went red and the taxi increased its speed. There was a blue van at the lights in the outside lane and the taxi shot through to make the right turn smashing the camera out of a tourist hand as he was crossing the road from right to left there towards the national gallery. Taxi kept going.

I rang the carriage office straight away with the number and the Garda on duty didn't seem too bothered.

I gave the tourist the taxi plate number and told him to contact the Gardai in Pearse St. Never heard what happened, but I was so annoying that the sh&t of a driver kept going!!

daymobrew

Johnnio13 wrote: »

I rang the carriage office straight away with the number and the Garda on duty didn't seem too bothered.

I gave the tourist the taxi plate number and told him to contact the Gardai in Pearse St. Never heard what happened, but I was so annoying that the sh&t of a driver kept going!!

Fair play for noting the plate number. Hopefully your action will help somewhat mend the damage to the country's reputation by the taxi.

If you have the reg plate, please report the incident to TrafficWatch (1890-205-805) so that the incident is put into PULSE. It would be worth contacting the Carriage Office again, maybe even Bord Failte's head office (1890-525-525).

flogen

I'll be honest in saying I don't usually see cars driving through a red light in the way some describe but it's common for me to see them speed through when it's just gone red... usually the way it works is the light goes orange and one car continues through when they should stop. They're then followed by one or two cars trying to do the same, at which point their going through a red light (And as a result forcing cars in the other direction, or pedestrians to wait despite having right of way).

Ignorant cyclists annoy the crap out of me too - so many cyclists seem to think their two wheels make them impervious to the rules applied to other vehicles or else they think that even if they do hit someone the worst they'll do is bend their spokes.

The cyclists that wind me up the most are those who think their bike is some kind of vehicle/pedestrian hybrid which allows them to cycle on both the road and path, depending on what's handiest for them.

I've often seen cyclists come up to a red light, hop up on the kerb, pass the light and then hop back down.

I've even had cyclists give me grief for not stepping out of their way as they cycled on a narrow path (in some cases they seem to expect me to step onto the road so they can continue to cycle on the path!). I know the roads aren't the safest place for cyclists but if you're an adult and you chose to take your bike out then you have to deal with the roads, end of story.

As for a solution, I'm a firm believer that these kind of minor incidents are what contribute to the major incidents. That's probably not true in all cases, but I'd argue it is in the majority of cases. Accidents are usually caused by people taking a chance and more likely than not it's a chance they've taken 100 times before and gotten away with.

It might be breaking a light, speeding through an orange light, slipping up a bus lane, driving with one too many on them... whatever. Once they know they can get away with speeding here, breaking lights there etc., they'll keep doing it and keep pushing their luck until they hit someone or someone hits them.

If they're slapped on the wrist for taking minor risks then they'd have to be completely brain-dead to decide to take a major one. Not many people will do something they're not supposed to if they know there's a good chance of them getting caught.

It's similar to the "Broken Windows" theory of policing - if you allow minor crimes to go unpunished things soon develop into major problems, so when a window gets broken in a neighbourhood you deal with it quickly rather than leave it and make it apparent that no-one's looking after the place or giving two shít over what goes on.

daymobrew

flogen wrote: »

It's similar to the "Broken Windows" theory of policing - if you allow minor crimes to go unpunished things soon develop into major problems, so when a window gets broken in a neighbourhood you deal with it quickly rather than leave it and make it apparent that no-one's looking after the place or giving two shít over what goes on.

Yes, the "Broken Windows" approach. I think you have it here - IMO we need vicious enforcement to counteract the (valid) impression that people won't be punished. Didn't Rudi Giuliani do this when he was Mayor of New York?

As a cyclist I have always supported escalated enforcement of traffic laws for cyclists (and all road users). Just like the "Broken Windows" theory, unpunished violations by cyclists create a negative impression of me (and other cyclists) even though we don't do the annoying (and illegal and dangerous) things you describe. I have noting to fear from such enforcement.

marti101

Een you are trying to teach kids rules of the road.I always wait on the green man and ive thought my kids the same.How many times do you see people running on the road with buggies and kids and then when the kids do it they get slaaped.It just really annoys me they have no concern for pedestrians.

daymobrew

marti101 wrote: »

Een you are trying to teach kids rules of the road.I always wait on the green man and ive thought my kids the same.

A few weeks ago I saw a bunch of 4 early teenage boys cross the road in Blanchardstown Centre. Three of them didn't wait for the green man (road was quite quiet). The fourth boy waited patiently for the light while his friends chastised him from the other side. I was impressed with the 'bravery' of the fourth boy - peer pressure is tough to ignore.

The wait time at these pedestrian lights is too long. I have this complaint about all pedestrian lights - I do understand that traffic lights (that control traffic at a junction) have different 'responsibilities'. IMO the best pedestrian lights at Millennium Bridge on the quays in Dublin. Here the lights change every 30 seconds.
I plan to write to Blanchardstown Centre management to ask them to change the bias of the pedestrian lights to pedestrians.

In Blanchardstown Centre there are at least 5 pedestrian crossings with lights. There is also one zebra crossing. In busy periods I know that at least one of the pedestrian crossings is turned off i.e. pedestrians don't get a green light!! There is nothing to tell them this and the patient ones stand at the crossing for ages before giving up waiting.
On a positive note, I think that the zebra crossing is brilliant. This is the way it should be - no waiting for pedestrians. They finally get their right of way back and motorists are very good at obeying this rare piece of traffic management.