Your opinions please?

Dragan

Hello Ladies,

while having a bit of a Stumble ( if you don't use Firefox and Stumbleupon you really, really should ) before hitting the town on Friday night i came across the below and found it rather interesting.

So would you agree or is it just the usual tired romantic view of things or do you see poor unfortunate folk who end up in this situation everyday because people will ignore a good thing? Or do you feel something completely differently entirely?

http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/writing/rant04.html

helimachoptor

Very true, I'm a nice guy but some women crave a "bad boy" til they get hurt. then they want a good boy but then they get bored and cheat with a bad boy, Then the bad boy breaks their heart and good boy is their to pick up the pieces...

Some women are attracted to bad boys but just as many aren't.

When I was younger I pursued the guys with the glint in their eye.... as you get older you realise that they're a waste of time!

My man now is the kindest, most sincere man I've ever met. I wouldn't swap him for the world.

aye

"This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, "

i know that feeling

Babette08

God that reminds me of a situation a friend of mine was in - too long a story to go into
I think we all grow out of that bad boy stage …the appeal there being the challenge. When you’re young and insecure it’s almost a validation. Sooner or later you get to know yourself and you begin to realise what works for you and what doesn’t and this is where the nice guys will always win out.
Seems to me that most girls like their men to have a bit of backbone, to be strong enough to stand up to them and this is maybe where some 'nice' guys fail

MattKid

There's a difference between being a doting nice guy that doesn't have the balls to stop doing everything the girl wants and being her emotional tampon and being a decent guy that can say No and doesn't drop everything at the moment she is bored/just broke up with someone etc.

I learnt that lesson

Red Hand

Jeez, that the person described in that article sounds more like a bloody babysitter than a friend.

Clare Bear

Ah the nice guy wins in the end, I've had my fair share of assholes, finally found a nice one....but the key is he isn't too nice, he's not a walkover, that's the problem some nice guys have.

Clare Bear

Clare Bear wrote: »

Ah the nice guy wins in the end, I've had my fair share of assholes, finally found a nice one....but the key is he isn't too nice, he's not a walkover, that's the problem some nice guys have.

Happy to hear that Clare

takola

MattKid wrote: »

There's a difference between being a doting nice guy that doesn't have the balls to stop doing everything the girl wants and being her emotional tampon and being a decent guy that can say No and doesn't drop everything at the moment she is bored/just broke up with someone etc.

Well said!

I'm afraid I was a little cringey and could only read the first paragraph before feeling nauseous and having to stop.

I don't go for a "bad boy" but I couldn't stand a guy who dropped everything at all times for me either. Matt said it perfectly!

Clare Bear

Moonbaby wrote: »

Happy to hear that Clare

Thanks Moonbaby

I don't think guys who worm their way into your good books with an agenda of getting together with you are nice. I think they are just lame.

Dragan

Moonbaby wrote: »

I don't think guys who worm their way into your good books with an agenda of getting together with you are nice. I think they are just lame.

Interesting point of view!

Hellm0

There is a clear difference between "nice" and spineless. Doesnt really matter what gender the person is to me.

SW81

Dragan wrote: »

Interesting point of view!

Well they're not nice guys then are they.

Dragan

SW81 wrote: »

Well they're not nice guys then are they.

No i just meant i found it interesting that this is the way someone would see the subject of the piece.

Wibbs

"Nice" guys don't get laid very often and when they do they usually lose them soon enough. "Bad" guys get laid more often but long term, not so much. In the middle is the thing. Know who you are and what you want and have boundaries. If they(or anyone else) step over those, let them know.

Normally guys who describe themselves a nice guys are acting like girlfriends around women they like hoping to get more as Moonbaby pointed out. At least a direct approach like asking a woman "do ya fancy a jump", while crass in the extreme, is at least more honest.

cuckoo

I thought that piece came across as bitter.

Girls aren't holding guns to the heads of these nice guys and forcing them to do all the stuff listed in the article - and, if the nice guys fancy the girl in question, well, if they don't ask her out or make a 'nice' move then my sympathies are
limited.

The 'no girls go for me 'cos i'm a nice guy' excuse is comparable to the 'i'm too beautiful/intimidating/intelligent for men to ask out'.

Blush_01

I didn't think the piece was bitter, per se, more misguided. It smacked of immaturity. The guy described in the piece wasn't a nice guy, he was a fool. If someone calls you in the middle of something, unless it's got a degree of urgency about it, you call them back. If someone uses you constantly and you consistently put up with it, who loses out and who wins? If a behaviour pattern doesn't work for you, then change it. The person for whom it works won't change it. The girl described there sounded like a twit - but he never called her on it. When someone freaks about a rumour that may be going around about them, are you a friend if you disagree but (instead of having a spine and saying so) go along with their sh!t?

I don't necessarily like bad boys, but I dispise people who pretend to be defenceless as a means of manipulation - which the poor "nice guy" there does as much as the girl. Hanging around like a lovesick puppy and allowing yourself to be used as a doormat in the hopes that the person you invite to walk all over you might want to bump uglies with you doesn't make you nice - it makes you spineless, childish and as bad for women as bad boys.

Someone genuinely nice would call you on the bad/unfair/unreasonable stuff, without breaking their own back to make all the rubbish seem reasonable. That applies to just friends as much as anyone else. They wouldn't do it with the intention of getting into your pants if they hang around long enough. Why do otherwise decent men make asses of themselves by not sticking up for themselves and then blame women for taking advantage of what's being offered to them without repercussion? When women do it, for the most part their friends will try to make them see sense. But when men do it women are evil? I don't get that whole genuine bitching about one sex or another simply because they're one gender or another. Do people really take that crap seriously?

Sorry, I'm crotchety this evening.

tallaght01

I did have a chuckle at that piece. I was definitely that loser when I was in my teens and early 20s.

Learned that lesson, and became the bad-ass mofo that I am today

Crumble Froo

ha, i thought of you as i read it :P

Macha

Curses Dragan!

Thanks to your stumpleupon suggestion I have done no study for the past hour and am not very hopeful on doing any for the rest of the day.

Dragan

taconnol wrote: »

Curses Dragan!

Thanks to your stumpleupon suggestion I have done no study for the past hour and am not very hopeful on doing any for the rest of the day.

It will do that alright! But some of the stuff you will Stumble Upon is well worth the lack of sleep!

ali.c

Interesting little rant alright. Eh this actually is something i seen (and lets be honest did a bit of) when I was younger rather than now. Lets be honest though did any of the those *nice* guys actually put the suggestion of taking things further straight up on the table eh not in my experience, sometimes if you want something you have to just go for it rather than pussy footing around the issue. I do think that the dynamics of those type of relationships are down to both parties though rather than one person being solely responsible and really i dont think do a whole lot for those involved. To me its smacks of the *nice* guy wanted to be needed or be desperate to be part of the girls life in any way shape or form as much as the girl utilising the guy as a sounding board for her lifes troubles.

Seeing alot less of it now that i am older though.

Drift

I have to say I also see shades of myself and moreso my younger self in the essay. I've never been anywhere near as much of a cuddlebitch as the guy described in the write up but I have been in situations where I ended up in the friendzone of a girl purely because I didn't have the balls to make it clear that I wanted more. It was never a conscious or coniving decision to try to:

Moonbaby wrote:

worm their way into your good books with an agenda of getting together

It was more a lack of balls to ask for what I wanted and a fear of rejection combined with the misguided belief that it was better to have a girl as a friend and she might just fall for me if I'm really nice to her rather than scare her off by asking her out.

I'm 25 now and as my twenties have progressed I've become more self confident and have a higher opinion of my self worth. It strikes me that the way I went about things when I was younger was clearly tainted by a feeling of not being good enough for whatever girl my affections were towards. I think that could be part of the main problem with "nice guy syndrome" - a lack of believing that you're good enough for the girl in question leads you to be this great friend in the hopes that her opinion of you will "change" to something more amorous when in fact her opinion of you is not as low as you think at all. i.e. There's no reason why you're not good enough for her.

Hope it might explain a bit to the Laydeez here in LL how a "nice guy" thinks. So there you have it girls Drift's friendzone is full to overflowing so he is now only recruiting for kinky antics in the bedroom!

Seraphina

a vast array of reactions to the 'nice guys finish last' idea

Orlee

I'd like to know if Dragan sees himself as a nice guy or a bad boy

Dragan

Orlee wrote: »

I'd like to know if Dragan sees himself as a nice guy or a bad boy

Neither, or both?

I treat people well and look out for my friends but i don't let anyone walk on me either. I suppose different people in my life would consider me one or the other....some would always have seen the good side of me, some would have seen me put some people in their place.

I'd be about as even a mix as you can get i guess?

ali.c

Drift wrote: »

I'm 25 now and as my twenties have progressed I've become more self confident and have a higher opinion of my self worth. It strikes me that the way I went about things when I was younger was clearly tainted by a feeling of not being good enough for whatever girl my affections were towards. I think that could be part of the main problem with "nice guy syndrome" - a lack of believing that you're good enough for the girl in question leads you to be this great friend in the hopes that her opinion of you will "change" to something more amorous when in fact her opinion of you is not as low as you think at all. i.e. There's no reason why you're not good enough for her.

Hehe totally think thats an honest and accurate reflection, seems to me to be aptly describing the transistion from being a boy to being a man as much as anything else. Also from a my point of view self-confidence and a sense of who you are are very important traits in a person

Dragan wrote:

Neither, or both?

Having met you I would of said neither tbh your just Dragan

5starpool

Stumbleupon is great, some brilliant stuff to be found using that.

Dragan

Seraphina wrote: »

a vast array of reactions to the 'nice guys finish last' idea

Some of those were awesome!

Black Swan

tallaght01 wrote: »

Learned that lesson, and became the bad-ass mofo that I am today

Naaaaaaa, you're an M&M. Hard on the outside, but soft on the inside.