PA size

Frankiestylee

Ok, dunno if this is the right place since the aul sound engineery bit was turned into music production, so move me if necessary... but...

What's the preferred size PA for a small venue to match drums? Obviously there are a fair few variables here: size of venue, type of drums, amps etc, but I'm just curious if my PA could handle the job.

To be specific, we'd be talking a pretty average drum kit, a fender blues jnr, a 120watt solid state and a 300watt Ashdown bass combo.

I have a feeling the PA would be up to the job, but I don't want to wait until I have to play a small venue to find out it's too small.
I think the speakers are 350watt and the amp is possibly a little bit more, but definitly less then 1000watt.

Eoin Madsen

"Watts" can mean anything.

Firstly there's wattage at a given impedence, secondly there's wattage for program power, RMS, peak etc. Thirdly, volume SPL arises out of both power and speaker sensitivity which can vary quite a bit. Fourthy, none of this accounts for the actual net linearity of the amplification system which can skew the perceived volume of the output completely.

Cheap systems always conceal the details so that they can put the highest number on the box (the Maplin prosound equipment is a great example of this - check out the "1000 watt" amp). And poxy sounding speakers will always colour in such a way that you have to crank it up louder to actually hear it. Hell, if you build a subwoofer enclosure badly enough you can put an enormous and expensive speaker in, hook it up to a serious amp, and still get no subbass out the other side.

cornbb

Frankiestylee wrote: »

Ok, dunno if this is the right place since the aul sound engineery bit was turned into music production, so move me if necessary... but...

Just FYI live sound engineering is most definitely still considered on-topic and welcome in the Music Production forum and we have a few regulars who are into "that sort of thing" Live sound engineering is definitely a form of music production and would draw from the same areas of expertise.

But not my own area of expertise unfortunately, so sorry for going off-topic.

Frankiestylee

Excellent, wasn't too sure if music production had changed with the change in name.

Can a mod move this to that forum then while I go find out all my ohms etc. There are obviously a huge amount of variables, I was just after a rough guide but an aul look at my gear might answer if it's enough or not.

Eoin Madsen

The rough guide is pretty much just matching like with like. If this amp delivers 350 watts continuous power at 8 ohms and this speaker can handle 350 watts continuous power at 8 ohms... hurray! If they don't say and there's no documentation... your guess is probably as good as anyone's. RMS and peak are the ones that come up most often, I think.

Frankiestylee

(ok, so I didn't manage to shift the gear to find the ohms)

It's not really the pairing of the speakers and amp I'm worried about, I've used them before for DJing etc, I'm just wondering what PA strength you'd need to credibly pull off a gig with a full drumkit smashing away.

Eoin Madsen

Frankiestylee wrote: »

It's not really the pairing of the speakers and amp I'm worried about, I've used them before for DJing etc, I'm just wondering what PA strength you'd need to credibly pull off a gig with a full drumkit smashing away.

There isn't really any such thing as "PA strength", that idea is an over-simplification. The sensitivity of the speakers, the transparency and transient response of the system, the acoustics of the venue, the rest of the band instrumentation and what else is using PA headroom, and whether the amps and speakers and crossovers are all matched in such a way that you can even utilise the range of the speakers or the full power of the amp.

A good fullrange speaker rated for 200 watt rms could happily project a single vocal over an unmiced band.

But even with everything matched ideally, an EV rig is going to sound a whole lot better than a Behringer rig of comparable power. Perceived volume is a non-linear concept, and wattage does not equal volume.

If you need an approximation... pick a number between 200 and 2000.

Frankiestylee

I wonder do the companies that rent PAs have huge warehouses where you can try each PA before you rent

Savman

There's no quick n easy answer to your question but if you just want a ballpark wattage for purpose of discussion then 2k-3k. 2/3 of that should be sub power.

Frankiestylee

Savman wrote: »

There's no quick n easy answer to your question but if you just want a ballpark wattage for purpose of discussion then 2k-3k. 2/3 of that should be sub power.

Bam,ballpark was what I was after, thank you very much the recently banned Savman.

Question: What's sub power? Are we talking bass here?


I had a fear that my pa was underpowered for the task. Do bands still do gigs relying on their amps to kick out the jams? I can only think of one example (and it was strangely using my little pa now that I think about it) and I don't remember it being THAT bad. Hmmm.... this is a thinker.

unclebill98

Sub power would be you bass bins.

IMHO a 200w full range speaker would not pull off a gig over an un-mic'd band. Unless its a top notch cab you'd simple be pushing it to hard.

I don't know of and have never heard of any rental company letting you try anything before you rent it.

I would be looking at something that can kick out 500w per side and cabs that can handle it. Even just one sub can make a very bug diff to your setup.

As mentioned headroom is key to a good system.

Frankiestylee

Ah nuts. Looks like it'll be the rental option then.

Though if it's a small enough venue, say 60people would more then fill it, would the amps, drums and pa only for vocals work? I can't imagine it being pretty.

I didn't believe a rental company would let you try it out, I was just saying that to counter the impossibility of a ballpark figure tbh.

unclebill98

Well pulling of a live gig is all about control. you have to be able to control what you want people to hear.

So depends on style of the music. There is no golden rule here. I just think that a 200w cab would not do anything any justice.

Is there a venue your playing that you can mention?

If you can give more info on the type of gig you trying to do, that will help.

I've done plenty of gigs with no mics on the drums. Larger crowds than 60 people. It always depends on the room as to how much PA we use. Drums will spill into all on stage mics anyhows.

Frankiestylee

The venues are quite small pubby places, upstairs in Anseo and upstairs in Shine (formerly Cornestone) are the two that I'm concerned about.
I suppose the nearest genre to what we do is indie rock, so no luck of us being all acoustic.
We tend to be aware of the various instrument levels for each song and use pedals to control it to a certain degree, but obviously we're not on the outside looking in.