Whats Missing From Our Poker Clubs

THEIRISHMOB

Following on from a previous comment in a post.
From my viewpoint live poker seems to be going downhill a little, Why is this?

Is online taking over with more choice of games/tourney, levels of buy-in for cash players, less rake (and more rakeback), you can find a game whenever you choose,no tipping, etc.

What do you think is missing from out poker clubs and how can we introduce new players to the game (especially live cash) without bankrupting them?

What would players like to see more and less of?

And what are your views on opening hours?
Should be some very intresting comments on this one, but try to keep them serious please.

Slash/ED

Since the only game running for the majority of time is 1/2 most people are forced to build their roll online. By the time they do build it up they're too used to multi-tabling and the faster action online and playing 6 max to adjust to live play so most just stick at it online.

ArmaniJeanss

Despite predictions, TV didn't kill off the Cinema.

phantom_lord

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

What do you think is missing from out poker clubs

shuffling machines.

RoadSweeper

alcohol :rolleyes:

mdwexford

Live poker is sooooo mind numblingly boring.

Its too much hassle to bother going anywhere to play live cash, just no point when everything is so much better online. No tracking software, crap game selection, high rake, slow dealers, smelly fat guys, have to get dressed etc etc etc just some of the endless list of reasons to not play live.

The only reason for playing live is the standard is handicapped.

sickpuppy

Good question irishmob.
I started playing poker 5 years ago in dublin i was addicted played most nights.
It killed my social life.
People nolonger see it as the novelty it once was.
When i started playing there was the merrion and the fitz now there a lot of competition.
Some games 100 freezeouts get only 30-40 runners waste of time going into town for that.
The relatively poor game selection puts others off.
Im sure some of the more annoying unsavoury characters put others off.
If you work like most do a 9 to 5 job playing poker till 3 or 4 in the morning is not ideal.The internet lets u play for afew hours and still get a good night sleep.
And finally i hope many people especially young guys have better things to be doing on a friday and saturday than playing cards,
im not saying getting hammered stoned riding fat birds is the way to go but its more fun surely than being surrounded by degenrates in a cardroom?

RoundTower

sickpuppy wrote: »

im not saying getting hammered stoned riding fat birds is the way to go but its more fun surely

speak for yourself mick

sickpuppy

Ok that was a bad example i mean just being more sociable.

kakak1

mdwexford wrote: »

have to get dressed

do you normally play nude at home

kakak1

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

Following on from a previous comment in a post.
From my viewpoint live poker seems to be going downhill a little, Why is this?

Is online taking over with more choice of games/tourney, levels of buy-in for cash players, less rake (and more rakeback), you can find a game whenever you choose,no tipping, etc.

What do you think is missing from out poker clubs and how can we introduce new players to the game (especially live cash) without bankrupting them?

What would players like to see more and less of?

And what are your views on opening hours?
Should be some very intresting comments on this one, but try to keep them serious please.

Compared to a lot of the ****e you have been going on with this is not a bad question.

I can only speak from our own club Blazin Aces. There has been a huge turnover of members at both Cash & Tournaments & I think reality hits home eventually for many players & they realise it's costing them too much, losing constantly & generally not making a fist of the game.

I personally much prefer tournaments & really the cost is not a major factor as in the cheaper tournaments it is a skill in itself trying to read the young Ace Rag merchants but overall I like yourself much prefer a good €100 / €200 FO.

To me there is no comparison between live & online play. I love the banter, the antics, the arguments & the social side to the live game. I find it difficult to concentrate in a MTT online & am paranoid that as I can't see the player he is always bluffing me & of course I make the stupid call.

In Waterford there is definitely a big drop off in cash games & a lot of this was down to the crazy antics of some of our "high rolling gamblers" & ordinary players just lost their bollix & don't play anymore. Also a lot of these "high rolling gamblers" don't like playing against players like you or I who are perceived as being too tight. (successful maybe but not giving enough action).

I think for the marginal players the novelty has worn off & new blood is required.

pok3rplaya

Chat mute buttons for certain people.

nicnicnic

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

Following on from a previous comment in a post.
From my viewpoint live poker seems to be going downhill a little, Why is this?

Is online taking over with more choice of games/tourney, levels of buy-in for cash players, less rake (and more rakeback), you can find a game whenever you choose,no tipping, etc.

What do you think is missing from out poker clubs and how can we introduce new players to the game (especially live cash) without bankrupting them?

What would players like to see more and less of?

And what are your views on opening hours?
Should be some very intresting comments on this one, but try to keep them serious please.

John Mehean

kakak1

nicnicnic wrote: »

John Mehean

more or less of

TommyGunne

sickpuppy wrote: »

And finally i hope many people especially young guys have better things to be doing on a friday and saturday than playing cards,
im not saying getting hammered stoned riding fat birds is the way to go but its more fun surely than being surrounded by degenrates in a cardroom?

God you make the choices of going out for the weekend seem so appealing! But if its my only alternative to gamblage, and you say its more fun then so be it!

Samba

topless women serving complimentary glasses of champagne?

bops

beatable rake and deep stacks

Ollieboy

I think you can break players down into 3 types:

1. The novice, a type trying to learn the game and playing for fun.
2. The better player you likes playing life and tries to get out as often as possible.
3. The higher stakes player that is only interest in playing big events for cash and makes a part-time/full-time living from the game.

Player 1 will come and go, depending on how he improves. So one way of keep this time of player is to having poker schools on a Friday evening once a week, where they can asked question or position can be thought to them etc.

Player 2 will always come, usually he as a gambling problem, or doesn't like the pub, or just loves playing live poker.

Player 3 you'll see once a month etc.

So how can you attract these players to a casino more.

1. poker schools
2. Drink.
3. good value games with decent size field.
4. presitage events, ie monthly titles along with yearly league and player of month etc, along with trophy's etc.

Can casino compete with online. No. Its totally different and if a player plays online a lot he'll be similiar to player type 3.

The other problems are easier.

1. To many casino's and to much on offer which ends up spliting the players.
2. Expectations of people, they think the boom can last for ever. Sorry boom is over. The number of players will continue to drop at live poker. Cash poker might continue to stay constant, but due to the games on offer in Ireland, it will not bring in the decent bankroll player.

On my last trip to Vegas, I notice the drop off in players in all the main casino's, even the monthly and major events were failing to attract the players. There's only so much money to go around and poker as been neglect by the TV companies and outside sponsors as it as failed to developed the game into a professional circuit with added prize money etc and poker majors etc, similiar to tennis and golf. The game needs regular stars to sell it and brand it correctly.

anyway, just my 2 cent.

dannydiamond

Ollieboy wrote: »

I think you can break players down into 3 types:

1. The novice, a type trying to learn the game and playing for fun.
2. The better player you likes playing life and tries to get out as often as possible.
3. The higher stakes player that is only interest in playing big events for cash and makes a part-time/full-time living from the game.

Player 1 will come and go, depending on how he improves. So one way of keep this time of player is to having poker schools on a Friday evening once a week, where they can asked question or position can be thought to them etc.

Player 2 will always come, usually he as a gambling problem, or doesn't like the pub, or just loves playing live poker.

Player 3 you'll see once a month etc.

So how can you attract these players to a casino more.

1. poker schools
2. Drink.
3. good value games with decent size field.
4. presitage events, ie monthly titles along with yearly league and player of month etc, along with trophy's etc.

Can casino compete with online. No. Its totally different and if a player plays online a lot he'll be similiar to player type 3.

The other problems are easier.

1. To many casino's and to much on offer which ends up spliting the players.
2. Expectations of people, they think the boom can last for ever. Sorry boom is over. The number of players will continue to drop at live poker. Cash poker might continue to stay constant, but due to the games on offer in Ireland, it will not bring in the decent bankroll player.

On my last trip to Vegas, I notice the drop off in players in all the main casino's, even the monthly and major events were failing to attract the players. There's only so much money to go around and poker as been neglect by the TV companies and outside sponsors as it as failed to developed the game into a professional circuit with added prize money etc and poker majors etc, similiar to tennis and golf. The game needs regular stars to sell it and brand it correctly.

anyway, just my 2 cent.

Very insightful.Good post.

HoLLLLLaments

Masseuse’s

Macspower

missing from most card rooms is decent coffee.... I'm so fed up of maxwell house..... SE is the best of a bad lot....

A Coffee filter machine doesn't break the back guys

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Ace2007

drink water

connie147

The biggest single reason why its hard to get new players in to play at the various poker clubs is the abuse they suffer from the "know-it-alls" at the tables. When a new player arrives to play in a club,his background is usually having played some pub games or home games and he feels he might be ready for that "step-up" to the next level.

Then its either being hammered over the srting bet or whats worse really is being verbally abused as to how he could make that call when he inevitably sucks out on someone. This whole think is a pet hate of mine and its something I'm trying hard to eradicate from my club.
Killarney is a small enough town and often when I'm out I'd meet a player who hasnt been in the club for ages. We'd get talking and sure as anything,the same reason crops up over and over again. He plays for a bit of fun and he didnt enjoy the verbal abuse he got when he played in the club.

Now,not only does it stop him coming in,but it also stops his assocciates from trying out the club either.It really is a huge obsticle to the blooding of new players.(Thankfully,from constant vigilence by us here,we're nearly on top of this problem now and not surprisingly,the numbers of new players coming in has increased. They're enjoying the club experience and their friends are coming along with them next time). I really can't stress enough to treat them newbies with a bit of respect.They're the future of our clubs!!

Connie

Ollieboy

connie147 wrote: »

The biggest single reason why its hard to get new players in to play at the various poker clubs is the abuse they suffer from the "know-it-alls" at the tables. When a new player arrives to play in a club,his background is usually having played some pub games or home games and he feels he might be ready for that "step-up" to the next level.

Then its either being hammered over the srting bet or whats worse really is being verbally abused as to how he could make that call when he inevitably sucks out on someone. This whole think is a pet hate of mine and its something I'm trying hard to eradicate from my club.
Killarney is a small enough town and often when I'm out I'd meet a player who hasnt been in the club for ages. We'd get talking and sure as anything,the same reason crops up over and over again. He plays for a bit of fun and he didnt enjoy the verbal abuse he got when he played in the club.

Now,not only does it stop him coming in,but it also stops his assocciates from trying out the club either.It really is a huge obsticle to the blooding of new players.(Thankfully,from constant vigilence by us here,we're nearly on top of this problem now and not surprisingly,the numbers of new players coming in has increased. They're enjoying the club experience and their friends are coming along with them next time). I really can't stress enough to treat them newbies with a bit of respect.They're the future of our clubs!!

Connie

yeh, very correct Connie and I think were all guilty of it at some stage

gondorff

Very true. Coming from a stranger, comments such as:
'Don't be so protective of your big blind, it'll cost you your tournament', and: 'you're full of s**t' can be most disconcerting even for an established player.

kakak1

connie147 wrote: »

The biggest single reason why its hard to get new players in to play at the various poker clubs is the abuse they suffer from the "know-it-alls" at the tables. When a new player arrives to play in a club,his background is usually having played some pub games or home games and he feels he might be ready for that "step-up" to the next level.

Then its either being hammered over the srting bet or whats worse really is being verbally abused as to how he could make that call when he inevitably sucks out on someone. This whole think is a pet hate of mine and its something I'm trying hard to eradicate from my club.
Killarney is a small enough town and often when I'm out I'd meet a player who hasnt been in the club for ages. We'd get talking and sure as anything,the same reason crops up over and over again. He plays for a bit of fun and he didnt enjoy the verbal abuse he got when he played in the club.

Now,not only does it stop him coming in,but it also stops his assocciates from trying out the club either.It really is a huge obsticle to the blooding of new players.(Thankfully,from constant vigilence by us here,we're nearly on top of this problem now and not surprisingly,the numbers of new players coming in has increased. They're enjoying the club experience and their friends are coming along with them next time). I really can't stress enough to treat them newbies with a bit of respect.They're the future of our clubs!!

Connie

Connie I couldn't agree more with you. I can't understand the logic of players getting upset when they get a bad beat because a "novice" made a bad call & sucked out. You want this every time cos by the law of averages you're going to win.

Also once a player pays his entry fee (or cash in a cash game) as far as I'm concerned the're entitled to play their cards any way they like (and the worse the better:D).

I never let bad beats upset me any more or put me on tilt. I now only tilt when I play a hand badly (that's why I tilt so much )

We need to be encouraging new players, the lifeblood of every club.

kakak1

gondorff wrote: »

Very true. Coming from a stranger, comments such as:
'Don't be so protective of your big blind, it'll cost you your tournament', and: 'you're full of s**t' can be most disconcerting even for an established player.

what about "How the fcuk did you call that" :eek:

jbravado

phantom_lord wrote: »

shuffling machines.

.

gondorff

kakak1 wrote: »

what about "How the fcuk did you call that" :eek:

I've been guilty of that one myself Dave an innocent enough question though no?

My post refers to an actual incident and is quoted verbatim.

Rossibaby

i think a few things need an overhaul.firstly its the regular know-it-alls.you come into a club or casino never having been before,you see a couple of tables in full swing and dont now where to go,what to do etc...[im judging by the ones i've been to] i feel there should be a person to greet new members,give them a wee 5 min tour and explain the schedule,what games go on at each table and the usual blinds for cash etc...also i sat down in a club at short notice and teh action came to me,not realising i didnt know the value of the ships and asked the dealer...etc to tell me values as there was nothing on the screen about it.it didnt have a homely feel was like,this is a tourny for regulars with dealers paying them more attention etc

another point,rude dealers should not be tolerated,which can be intimidating for a new player.its not acceptable.
also the prices can be too much,i feel 1/2 blinds isnt affordable to play for fun for alot of people as a hobby,how about more games where you have like a 15,20,30 or 50 euro stack. much more affordable.

also like other sports there should be more sponsership where not just entry fees are put into the prizepool but alot more besides on a few occasions during the year.some re-buys i know are shocking value,where if you rebuy twice in a field of 60 you must come like 5th to get your money back.value should be way better,with things like freerolls set up as prizes,free buy-ins,whatever.also the league's should be mroe accessable,say like smaller ones where they last only a few weeks.

tipping shouldn't be the norm,poker is about having fun and making money,my mate is a dealer on 12 quid and hour and thats plenty in my eyes.if you are tipping after a winning night and a long time at the table id give a fiver to the manager and tips should be given to him to be spread out.plus casion's rake is really annoying,i havent played cash in one in ages cuz i can have a big cash game at home,we set the buy-in,blinds,time,whatever and have sit n goes.

its a brilliant hobby that i love,theres no better feeling than winning a nice wad or pulling off some major bluff.but why can golfers,tennis players etc enter a comp for free and win millions??should poker not have some sort of seeding system etc for this and have majors like said before

THEIRISHMOB

connie147 wrote: »

The biggest single reason why its hard to get new players in to play at the various poker clubs is the abuse they suffer from the "know-it-alls" at the tables. When a new player arrives to play in a club,his background is usually having played some pub games or home games and he feels he might be ready for that "step-up" to the next level.

Then its either being hammered over the srting bet or whats worse really is being verbally abused as to how he could make that call when he inevitably sucks out on someone. This whole think is a pet hate of mine and its something I'm trying hard to eradicate from my club.
Killarney is a small enough town and often when I'm out I'd meet a player who hasnt been in the club for ages. We'd get talking and sure as anything,the same reason crops up over and over again. He plays for a bit of fun and he didnt enjoy the verbal abuse he got when he played in the club.

Now,not only does it stop him coming in,but it also stops his assocciates from trying out the club either.It really is a huge obsticle to the blooding of new players.(Thankfully,from constant vigilence by us here,we're nearly on top of this problem now and not surprisingly,the numbers of new players coming in has increased. They're enjoying the club experience and their friends are coming along with them next time). I really can't stress enough to treat them newbies with a bit of respect.They're the future of our clubs!!

Connie

I've been guilty of this lately and your right its not good for the game. Very good point.

Jebubs

I heard "Facials" were the future.

doke

Rossibaby wrote: »

didnt have a homely feel was like,this is a tourny for regulars with dealers paying them more attention etc

another point,rude dealers should not be tolerated,which can be intimidating for a new player.its not acceptable.

Very good points.

I know dealing must get boring at times, but dealers really should try to find ways to amuse themselves other than looking for any excuse to pounce on an obvious newbie with an over-vigorous application of the prohibition on string bets. There's a world of difference between a seasoned veteran playing "now they're over, now they're not" with his chips and an obvious newbie getting it ever so slightly wrong.

It's human nature that dealers will feel more of a connection with regulars they see every night but they should also reflect that the newbie is another potential regular to keep them in employment. It's a service industry and cordiality should be part of the service.

Saw an incident one night where an obviously nervous newbie was getting on the nerves of a seriously obnoxious dealer. Then the newbie pushed a stack of chips across the line intending to raise. The dealer looked at him questioningly as if he couldn't work out what the raise was, so to presumably help him count it, the newbie split the stack in half and placed both halves side by side. At which point the dealer decided it was a string bet.

THEIRISHMOB

Jebubs wrote: »

I heard "Facials" were the future.

Go away

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Jebubs

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

Go away

I think that went over your head.... so to speak BCB etc.

Chucky the tree

Rossibaby wrote: »

also the prices can be too much,i feel 1/2 blinds isnt affordable to play for fun for alot of people as a hobby,how about more games where you have like a 15,20,30 or 50 euro stack. much more affordable.

The rake just wouldnt make it worth while. nl 100 probaly wouldnt be worth it either. But 1/2 tables that cant have a straddle would be good.

ditpoker

less greed from players
less greed from clubs
more creativity and imagination as regard poker tournaments...

players are much more concerned with the bottom line, the banter is leaving clubs, live poker is not as enjoyable as it was 12 months ago...
clubs put on more expensive games so they can get more rake/reg... two of the most popular games in dublin in the summer were the €5 rebuy , monday in jackpot and the €20 freezeout on a thursday...

another issue, would clubs consider LIMITING runners, take the €50 game in the SE on a thursday, it gets CRAZY numbers at times. if you limited it to 40 runners, you could tailor the tournament to last 4hours, or 4 and half hours, or whatever. so if as a punter you know you can start at nine, the tournament WILL be over 2am... and if 80 runners show up? two tournaments, first 40 in tourney 1, next fourty in tourny 2... if 89 turn up , the nine can be on a reserve list or play a sit and go, arrive earlier next week lads! that way also, the first tourney will fill with the first 40 and might get started earlier...

Goodluck2me

ditpoker wrote: »

players are much more concerned with the bottom line, the banter is leaving clubs, live poker is not as enjoyable as it was 12 months ago...

clubs put on more expensive games so they can get more rake/reg... two of the most popular games in dublin in the summer were the €5 rebuy , monday in jackpot and the €20 freezeout on a thursday...

another issue, would clubs consider LIMITING runners, take the €50 game in the SE on a thursday, it gets CRAZY numbers at times. if you limited it to 40 runners, you could tailor the tournament to last 4hours, or 4 and half hours, or whatever. so if as a punter you know you can start at nine, the tournament WILL be over 2am... and if 80 runners show up? two tournaments, first 40 in tourney 1, next fourty in tourny 2... if 89 turn up , the nine can be on a reserve list or play a sit and go, arrive earlier next week lads! that way also, the first tourney will fill with the first 40 and might get started earlier...

The first point is rubbish imo, the craic is the same, I played quite a bit this week and enjoyed it immensely, with newer and older faces.

The Fitz Scalps game is still the most popular game consistently week in -week out. One one hand there you are saying run big succesful tournament like the €20 FO with loads of no.s but ont he other you say they are going on too long.

Read above, where the dilution of poker clubs was one of the main reasons the value has gone out of them.

Rossibaby wrote: »

itipping shouldn't be the norm,poker is about having fun and making money,my mate is a dealer on 12 quid and hour and thats plenty in my eyes.if you are tipping after a winning night and a long time at the table id give a fiver to the manager and tips should be given to him to be spread out.

Would you work at 5am for €12 an hour? I certainly wouldn`t and I`m pretty sure that most dealers wouldn`t. Tips are what makes the job tolerable and viable to live on, (for a full-time dealer especially), if you didnt tip I can guarantee you`d better start enjoying self deal. I played in the fitz last night and tipped c€30/40 but i dont mind so long as I am winning, a euro per hand isnt a lot imo, but at the same token it makes a HUGE difference when Im working when others tip.

P.S. Thanks to LLoyd, Doke, Gary, Baz and Fran and the others for their very generous tips in Waterford.

Ollieboy

as I had already point out, the 1/2 game is not profitable enough for good players. But its advantage to the casino's is two fold.

1. stops players going broke
2. they get a decent rake per hand at the max level, so running a 5/10 game compare to 1/2 game doesn't make that much of a difference to there bottom line, but just means the money will move up to the better players faster.

Also, the comment about not tipping the dealers is unfair, the real problem is the poor wages, but this is create by the poor rake players are willing to play and the profit the casino wants from the game.

Finally, the comment about dealers been negative to players is not true. I accept there's the odd incident, but in general dealers but up with a lot of rubbish from players more so than dealers been bad manner to players. Anyone can have a moment, but I think the above comments have been very unfair

kakak1

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

I've been guilty of this lately and your right its not good for the game. Very good point.

only lately

eagle eye

Excellent Post by Connie. Agree with you 100%.

I would definitely agree with DITPoker on his comment that the there is not the same fun that there used to be in a lot of casinos.
Its possible that this is due to the fact that there are more players making a full time career out of the game and they are there to earn money and not to have a good time.
There is also those people who cannot handle the slow pace of a live game and seem constantly frustrated and unhappy when someone is taking time to make a decision. If you have someone like this at your table, it can make the experience uncomfortable.

I will not give out to a newbie or a fish at a Poker table. I try to be civil at all times, but I must admit that I do get annoyed sometimes, but in these situations I will leave for a few minutes and get it out of my system.
Any good player who does this sort of thing is a fool imo.
Abusing newbies/fish is the same as throwing money away.

I don't see the point of tipping after every winning pot. I tip like everyone else, but I hate it when you tip a dealer 25/30 euros in a night and go home down money. I personally would prefer to tip at the end of the session and base it on how well or badly I have done on the night.
Is it also the norm to leave a tip after getting served beers in a pub? Or does everyone tip Taxi drivers, waiters/waitresses, haridressers etc.

I spent a few years in the US and i tipped in all these areas, and the tipping of dealers comes from that culture. The wages in these jobs where tips are expected are not good, but over here we have a minimum wage and its pretty decent, and if you don't feel like dealing at 5am for 12 euro an hour, well just leave the job, guaranteed there is someone out there who is willing and capable of taking your place.

A set of rules for cash games and tournaments should always be available to the customer. I have asked for this in some casinos and been told that the manager/td will deal with any situation, and if you have any rule you want to ask about that he/she will be more that happy to accommodate you. I personally think there should be a copy of the rules at every table so that any player can read the rules. Even better, when a player signs up, he should be given a free copy of the rules of that casino.

Dealers who make mistakes regularly, who make comments on a persons play, or who give out to someone are the worst thing in a casino imo.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

bantee

All very valid points about the general atmosphere towards to new players.

The regular players in most clubs all have their banter going and clicky little groups when there is a tournament being played. When I first played some tournaments, I was ridiculed at the tables for some bad play against the more "seasoned" regular players.
This is all very off-putting to new players and I think these experiences definately lead to some people preferring to stay within their comfort zone of the home games or the local pub games.
You genuinely need to be serious about improving your game to put up with all the snide comments, smarmy glances at each other, and the smart remarks if you want to return and practice some more.

I really like the attitude which Connie spoke of in his club, this is what makes a business successful.

These days, if someone new to the game is sitting next to me who seems nervous and has made a few mistakes, I just have a quiet word to advise them on the basics of the game.
More often than not, they are glad that someone helped them so they are not made fun of at the table.
Even the more successful players we now have in this country had to start somewhere.

El Stuntman

bantee wrote: »

These days, if someone new to the game is sitting next to me who seems nervous and has made a few mistakes, I just have a quiet word to tell them they are playing well and they just got unlucky and not to worry, sure it's all luck and it'll turn around for them soon

FYP

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes? I do anyway.

.

that said, i'm very much service driven... i would tip nominally as the norm, if service is excellent i would tip quite well... if service is poor/bad i'd almost make a point of not tipping.

bantee

El Stuntman wrote: »

FYP

ha ha, no I'd try not to patronise them! I don't mean I'm a good samaritan to all newcomers; I'm just saying I don't like to see anyone really struggling at the tabel with the basics. But I suppose nearly everyone knows the basics these days.

doke

Ollieboy wrote: »

as I had already point out, the 1/2 game is not profitable enough for good players. But its advantage to the casino's is two fold.

1. stops players going broke
2. they get a decent rake per hand at the max level, so running a 5/10 game compare to 1/2 game doesn't make that much of a difference to there bottom line, but just means the money will move up to the better players faster.

Also, the comment about not tipping the dealers is unfair, the real problem is the poor wages, but this is create by the poor rake players are willing to play and the profit the casino wants from the game.

Finally, the comment about dealers been negative to players is not true. I accept there's the odd incident, but in general dealers but up with a lot of rubbish from players more so than dealers been bad manner to players. Anyone can have a moment, but I think the above comments have been very unfair

I accept that the vast majority of dealers do a great job, and are cordial, but I think most players would say they know at least one dealer who is persistently rude rather than simply having the occasional moment.

I agree with others who have said that 12 Euro an hour is not a decent wage for a job with such antisocial hours, so in the present climate tipping is essential. I've no problem at all tipping dealers, even the rude or incompetent ones, in the circumstances. But as a general point, I hate this mandatory tipping culture which has crept into Ireland from (I think) America in recent years. I don't think it really benefits anyone except thick-necked arseholes prepared to go out on a limb and undertip or not tip at all. It forces the employees who rely on tips to rely on the generosity or otherwise of their clients. It enables employers to pay smaller wages because "sure you'll make more with tips". How many of us would be happy to work in an environment where we don't know our remuneration in advance and it's entirely at the discretion of the client/employer? I know I wouldn't.

To put it in concrete poker terms, if it's agreed that, say, 3-5% is the accepted norm for tipping after a tournament score, I'd much rather that 3-5% be added to the registration fee. That way, the dealers are guaranteed that extra income, and the more generous players are not effectively subsidising the less generous.

Mandatory tipping is also effectively a tax on better players. The donk who never troubles the scorers never has to pay a cent to the dealers, but the pro who makes his living from it is effectively taxed x%. That doesn't bother me personally since I'm a recreational player to whom the money is secondary, but if I was a full time pro, I suspect it might bother me. Or encourage me to play online more, which was the original point of discussion.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

TrueDub

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

100%. I don't tip if the service is rubbish. Thankfully, the service is very, very rarely rubbish in Dublin clubs.

Agree 100%