International Poker Open 2008

carfax · 13-02-2008 9:31pm #1

Hi all,

Little help needed;

Would you prefer?

Option A: 1,000 runner event starting on a Saturday morning with 100 players coming back for play on Day 2.

Option B: 1,200 runner event with 600 players starting on a Friday (Day 1A) and another 600 players starting on a Saturday (Day 1B). Day 2 would be Sunday and a winner would be declared before the end of the day.

I don't want to influence the vote too much but basically option A means a lot of hassle as regards finding 120 staff (not impossible but close to it) to run Day 1.

Option B allows us to provide players with a standard that they could compare with the EPT etc as we would staff it with at least 85 people for the 600 players. It also means that up to 600 players will need to take a day off work.

Opinions please and remember that the whole purpose of this tournament is to open up and make accessable a big field poker tournaments for players that normally have a max buy-in of €20-€50. Its not really aimed at people that normally have a minimum buy-in of €200.

rag2gar · 13-02-2008 9:36pm

Option A seems better, its cool seeing 1000 players in one room!

carfax · 13-02-2008 9:37pm

Errr....Thought I posted a poll here, have to call for help.

Ollieboy · 13-02-2008 9:47pm

why not have day 1A on Saturday, day 1B on Sunday, that way your only putting out 100 people on the Monday and there all in the money.

Also, a buy-in of 200 at least!

best of luck with it.

I also think option 1 is a nitemare for you.

Goodluck2me · 13-02-2008 9:51pm

Option B

I`d go for Option1 but only if its feasible to do it properly, if its not then limit it to 800 or w/e you can manage effectively.
I think €200 this year too. 175+25 I think.

ditpoker · 13-02-2008 9:59pm

is there a bank holiday around then, work it into that weekend maybe!?

i'd say keep the buy in at 150, remember while everyone on boards (and he student market of boards ) are a year older and wiser and supposedly richer, your target market's budget hasnt changed,so while i originally thought "yea, im with joe, 200 sounds good" with a bit of thought i know two years ago that would have put me off. i will play 200, but alot wont. 150 worked last time, if it aint broke, dont fix it.

3 day allows for more time to generate rake at cash tables.

3 day allows people like myself play day 1, deal day 2, or vice versa.

RasTa · 13-02-2008 10:13pm

Whatever happens just make sure that all players are under the same roof when we get to the money and no phones are used etc etc.

CourierCollie · 13-02-2008 10:30pm

Ollieboy wrote: »

why not have day 1A on Saturday, day 1B on Sunday, that way your only putting out 100 people on the Monday and there all in the money.

Also, a buy-in of 200 at least!

best of luck with it.

I also think option 1 is a nitemare for you.

I totally agree with Ollieboy. Nobody would mind pulling a sickie on a Monday if there in the money. Taking a day off on a Friday, for what could be 1 hours playing, sure yed only get students. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

dK1NG · 13-02-2008 10:56pm

Agree that people would be much less inclined to take the fri off.

I'd vote for option one.

Get In There · 13-02-2008 11:13pm

CourierCollie wrote: »

I totally agree with Ollieboy. Nobody would mind pulling a sickie on a Monday if there in the money. Taking a day off on a Friday, for what could be 1 hours playing, sure yed only get students. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I agree also...

winstons pt · 13-02-2008 11:53pm

Ollieboy wrote: »

why not have day 1A on Saturday, day 1B on Sunday, that way your only putting out 100 people on the Monday and there all in the money.

Also, a buy-in of 200 at least!

best of luck with it.

I also think option 1 is a nitemare for you.

Hi Stephan, i think ollieboy is right, if players have to come back on the Monday, it will be only 100 or so,and they have some money, players will have peace of mind on the saturday and sunday, i seen how busy you were last year, its not worth it man, this would be a lot easy for you and you could give more att to players when they need you, plus buy in €175 + €25
Anyway i wish you the very best of luck with it.
If you need any help let me know........Paddy

newbie2 · 14-02-2008 12:09am

Ollieboy wrote: »

why not have day 1A on Saturday, day 1B on Sunday, that way your only putting out 100 people on the Monday and there all in the money.

Also, a buy-in of 200 at least!

best of luck with it.

I also think option 1 is a nitemare for you.

.

mdwexford · 14-02-2008 12:58am

Yeah Ollie's suggestion sounds good, if not then option B as self deal tables sucked last time. Getting 100+ dealers is impossible.

green123 · 14-02-2008 4:33am

yeah ollie made this suggestion before , and it sounds like a good idea

Tinytony · 14-02-2008 8:11am

Like Ollies option too.

Think you should leave the buy-in as it is as you will definitely lose the more casual players if you up it to €200 and as you've said this is your main target area for this tournament.

carfax · 14-02-2008 8:34am

Tinytony wrote: »

Like Ollies option too.

Think you should leave the buy-in as it is as you will definitely lose the more casual players if you up it to €200 and as you've said this is your main target area for this tournament.

Agree with is alright but the thing that everyone has missed so far is that Day 2 players cannot have made the money before the start of play on that day.

i.e. Day 1A might have 100 players remaining and Day 1B might have 200.....Therefore 300 are now coming back for play, do we then re-structure the prize-pool to pay all 300?.....

Our whole point this year is to make sure that players get a proper service for the €25 reg, so option B it is......We want to steer clear of bank holidays so I think that anyone wishing to play will have to either register early to ensure their seat on day 1B or simply take a Friday off work to play on Day 1A (think about it though if you plan even two months in advance its not going to be a problem to take a Friday off, is it?).

I've had dozens of emails already from overseas players that are planning to bring their families over for the weekend so a Friday for Day 1A will be perfect for them as it will allow them to spend time with their families on the Saturday whether they are still in the tournament or not. I know we will be taking a risk with it but I think it is better than relying on 200 odd players taking a sickie on a Monday morning (remember lots of poker players work for themselves and therefore can't take sickies).

Stephen.

Ste05 · 14-02-2008 11:17am

Poll added (slightly incorrectly by me

), then poll closed, then thread locked, then some other Ste05 messing, finally all posts moved to a new thread, basically some uber mod skills showed and a great display by me to correct a tiny error.

But it should all be done now.

Public Poll added.

carfax · 14-02-2008 11:45am

Cheers Ste.....I think if we get 100 votes it will give us a good overall idea although all of the posts so far have been very constructive.

Blip · 14-02-2008 4:33pm

carfax wrote: »

Agree with is alright but the thing that everyone has missed so far is that Day 2 players cannot have made the money before the start of play on that day.

i.e. Day 1A might have 100 players remaining and Day 1B might have 200.....Therefore 300 are now coming back for play, do we then re-structure the prize-pool to pay all 300?.....

Just play down to 50 runners on each day,

Can we add Ollie's suggestion to the poll?

carfax · 14-02-2008 4:39pm

Its a close thing in the poll so far.....Very interesting

carfax · 14-02-2008 4:39pm

Blip wrote: »

Just play down to 50 runners on each day,

Can we add Ollie's suggestion to the poll?

This is more of just a guideline for uswhen organising it (we basically have our mind made up but want to make sure we aren't doing something that nobody will play in.....

__________

As regards playing down to 50 on each day my point is that you simply can't forecast exactly how many players will be left by a given level and you have to play the same amount of time for both Day 1A and Day 1B, otherwise when you come back for play on day 2 half the field could be at 300-600 and the other half at 500-1,000.

carfax · 14-02-2008 11:07pm

Wow, ok funny how these polls can start out all even and then you start to get a majority.....

Think its looking like option B, quality....Might be harder to promote, i.e. Saturday will probably fill before the Friday but in terms of running the tournament it means we will be able to enjoy it more.

WayneD1982 · 20-02-2008 11:58am

Option B gives u the chance to make sure every player is looked after and is happy with the the fact proper dealers are in front of them...Last year i was on a self dealt table and even though it wasnt for that long it didnt feel like a proper tourney,more like a pub game....In the end it was a very good day nut defo Option B this year

When are u planning to have it this year Ste?

ZZR1100 · 20-02-2008 12:10pm

aggree with olly. definatly needs to be a 200 entry.
Also make sure it doesnt clash with connies festival in Oct as this will take a large chunk of people out of your tourney although it is a 500

carfax · 20-02-2008 2:19pm

WayneD1982 wrote: »

When are u planning to have it this year Ste?

It will be around the same time as last year mate....We'll be able to announce everything soon enough.

carfax · 20-02-2008 2:20pm

ZZR1100 wrote: »

aggree with olly. definatly needs to be a 200 entry.
Also make sure it doesnt clash with connies festival in Oct as this will take a large chunk of people out of your tourney although it is a 500

Cheers for the advice we'll take that on board.

mickc · 20-02-2008 3:20pm

Whats the difference in structure between the 2 options?

carfax · 20-02-2008 4:22pm

mickc wrote: »

Whats the difference in structure between the 2 options?

Blind structure??? More or less the exact same just less of a marathon-in-a-day if option B

mickc · 20-02-2008 4:31pm

thanks..

mcaul · 22-02-2008 9:32am

dK1NG wrote: »

Agree that people would be much less inclined to take the fri off.

I'd vote for option one.

A 3pm start on Fiday would mean a half day at most for those who can't take the day off. A late finish is compensated by a Saturday morning lie-in whereas the Saturday players would have early start & early finish meaning less tired players on the final day.

ditpoker · 22-02-2008 10:34am

mcaul wrote: »

A 3pm start on Fiday would mean a half day at most for those who can't take the day off. A late finish is compensated by a Saturday morning lie-in whereas the Saturday players would have early start & early finish meaning less tired players on the final day.

most sensible post so far...the man talks sense!

i'll play the friday so all the sharks know to avoid me and so at least 1 person shows up on friday...

LuckyLloyd · 22-02-2008 11:00am

This will again be unpopular - but I'm more certain of it now than I was when we were discussing last years tournament. In my very honest and humble opinion, either:

- the buyin needs to be increased to a €300 + 30;
- the pay structure needs to be drastically altered so that only 5% of the field are paid with the first paying position guaranteeing €800+;

Last October I finished 41st of 1072 runners and was paid €410. Just, no, not again please.

We had 90 players paid sums that meant they essentially lost money over the weekend (particularly the foreign players who fell in this bracket) / or received shocking value for their time.

Now, yes, we're not all professionals. But if we are poker players the concept of value and profit should enter our thoughts. With this unique one of a kind event I really and strongly believe that we should use a unique prize structure that ensures that anyone who is paid, GETS PAID.

I think Ste and Derek deserve a lot of credit for pulling it out last year and sneaking it as a functional tournament - and I have no doubt whatsoever that they will make dramatic organisational improvements with the added benefit of experience.

And yes, I was gifted thousands of the easiest tournament chips I ever won last year from a dreadful field. BUT, I just don't believe that I could justify playing the tournament again if it has the same prize structure / buyin. I would hope that people can be sensible about this and consider some changes. I think the type of players who were there last year would be back nonetheless.

CelticPhantom · 22-02-2008 12:03pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

the buyin needs to be increased to a €300 + 30;

I think the type of players who were there last year would be back nonetheless.

Not for more than double the buy-in!

I am the recreational type of player that this tournament is trying to attract. The low price was the attraction. This was deliberately priced low, and this strategy worked in making the event what it was.

You have plenty of €300+ tournaments to choose from throughout the year. There are almost no large field events where I could consider buying in for.

I would have been delighted just to make the second day (I didn't) and the money would have been a secondary consideration.

if we are poker players the concept of value and profit should enter our thoughts.

It is the amount of players like myself that are the value in a tournament like this.

Do you play $1 SnG tournaments online and then complain about only winning $10? I know you are a good player and would pick the tournaments that give you the profit that you desire. If you really feel this way then I believe you should play the tournaments that give you what you want; and not try to force a tournament to be something that it was never meant to be. I.E. high buy-in (relatively) with a good pay-out structure for a few spots.

I feel that the all of the players that I met at the IPO last year would have been satisfied (delighted and proud) to have bested more than 1,000 players. IMHO

In short - This type of tournament is not what you are looking for in a poker tournament. I feel that Stephen and Derek laid on what they set out to accomplish, a great tournament that was appreciated by the majority that took part. I for one will be back again for the same structure and buy-in.

carfax · 22-02-2008 12:08pm

mcaul wrote: »

A 3pm start on Fiday would mean a half day at most for those who can't take the day off. A late finish is compensated by a Saturday morning lie-in whereas the Saturday players would have early start & early finish meaning less tired players on the final day.

Now thats an idea!!!, we better look into this.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This will again be unpopular - but I'm more certain of it now than I was when we were discussing last years tournament. In my very honest and humble opinion, either:

- the buyin needs to be increased to a €300 + 30;
- the pay structure needs to be drastically altered so that only 5% of the field are paid with the first paying position guaranteeing €800+;

Last October I finished 41st of 1072 runners and was paid €410. Just, no, not again please.

We had 90 players paid sums that meant they essentially lost money over the weekend (particularly the foreign players who fell in this bracket) / or received shocking value for their time.

Now, yes, we're not all professionals. But if we are poker players the concept of value and profit should enter our thoughts. With this unique one of a kind event I really and strongly believe that we should use a unique prize structure that ensures that anyone who is paid, GETS PAID.

I think Ste and Derek deserve a lot of credit for pulling it out last year and sneaking it as a functional tournament - and I have no doubt whatsoever that they will make dramatic organisational improvements with the added benefit of experience.

And yes, I was gifted thousands of the easiest tournament chips I ever won last year from a dreadful field. BUT, I just don't believe that I could justify playing the tournament again if it has the same prize structure / buyin. I would hope that people can be sensible about this and consider some changes. I think the type of players who were there last year would be back nonetheless.

Hi Lloyd,

I really appreciate your opinion on this as you were a big help with deciding blind structure etc last year but to be honest mate if this tournament isn't for you then it isn't for you.....

You are used to playing big field, big buy-in tournaments.....The whole concept behind this tournament is to cater to players that would never dream of investing any more than €150 (i.e. it is their absolute maximum buy-in) but still want to get the experience and payout structure that is offered with the IPO.

ditpoker · 22-02-2008 12:21pm

i think the €150 buy in should remain but the pay out structure could be tweeked a bit... i'll be bored in work after lunch and will throw something together, a bit like what we did in the DIT 5 rebuy games. i.e if you get 1000 runners and a prize pool of 125,000 you dont need 1st place to be €50,000 or even €20,000, there was ALWAYS going to be a deal done last year. Tell me one player in that field who would have been upset to "only" win €20,000! as i said, i'll throw something together that will keep lloyd happy (not always easy unless there's Indie movie with a deep contemplative themed plot behind it) and ste happy!

ditpoker · 22-02-2008 1:25pm

Assuming 1000 runners, and €125,000 prizepool.

PLACE	PRIZE &#8364;	%

1	17500	14
2	12000	9.6
3	9500	7.6
4	7000	5.6
5	5500	4.4
6	4375	3.5
7	3375	2.7
8	2500	2
9	1875	1.5
10	1375	1.1
11	1225	0.98
12	1225	0.98
13	1225	0.98
14	1225	0.98
15	1225	0.98
16	1225	0.98
17	1225	0.98
18	1225	0.98
19	1225	0.98
20	1225	0.98
21	1075	0.86
22	1075	0.86
23	1075	0.86
24	1075	0.86
25	1075	0.86
26	1075	0.86
27	1075	0.86
28	1075	0.86
29	1075	0.86
30	1075	0.86
31	900	0.72
32	900	0.72
33	900	0.72
34	900	0.72
35	900	0.72
36	900	0.72
37	900	0.72
38	900	0.72
39	900	0.72
40	900	0.72
41	750	0.6
42	750	0.6
43	750	0.6
44	750	0.6
45	750	0.6
46	750	0.6
47	750	0.6
48	750	0.6
49	750	0.6
50	750	0.6
51	600	0.48
52	600	0.48
53	600	0.48
54	600	0.48
55	600	0.48
56	600	0.48
57	600	0.48
58	600	0.48
59	600	0.48
60	600	0.48
61	450	0.36
62	450	0.36
63	450	0.36
64	450	0.36
65	450	0.36
66	450	0.36
67	450	0.36
68	450	0.36
69	450	0.36
70	450	0.36
71	425	0.34
72	425	0.34
73	425	0.34
74	425	0.34
75	425	0.34
76	425	0.34
77	425	0.34
78	425	0.34
79	425	0.34
80	425	0.34
81	325	0.26
82	325	0.26
83	325	0.26
84	325	0.26
85	325	0.26
86	325	0.26
87	325	0.26
88	325	0.26
89	325	0.26
90	325	0.26
91	250	0.2
92	250	0.2
93	250	0.2
94	250	0.2
95	250	0.2
96	250	0.2
97	250	0.2
98	250	0.2
99	250	0.2
100	250	0.2
	125000	100

cant see anyone complaining about €17,500 for two days work and a €150 investment. Much less likely to lead to deals... and if lloyd finished 41st he'd get €750 for a €600 profit, which is plenty for two days given that 40 players beat him!

and if they fill 1200 runners... €21,000 for first and lloyd gets 900 for 41st, the equivelent of 17th last year.

PLACE	PRIZE &#8364;	%
1	21000	14
2	14400	9.6
3	11400	7.6
4	8400	5.6
5	6600	4.4
6	5250	3.5
7	4050	2.7
8	3000	2
9	2250	1.5
10	1650	1.1
11	1470	0.98
12	1470	0.98
13	1470	0.98
14	1470	0.98
15	1470	0.98
16	1470	0.98
17	1470	0.98
18	1470	0.98
19	1470	0.98
20	1470	0.98
21	1290	0.86
22	1290	0.86
23	1290	0.86
24	1290	0.86
25	1290	0.86
26	1290	0.86
27	1290	0.86
28	1290	0.86
29	1290	0.86
30	1290	0.86
31	1080	0.72
32	1080	0.72
33	1080	0.72
34	1080	0.72
35	1080	0.72
36	1080	0.72
37	1080	0.72
38	1080	0.72
39	1080	0.72
40	1080	0.72
41	900	0.6
42	900	0.6
43	900	0.6
44	900	0.6
45	900	0.6
46	900	0.6
47	900	0.6
48	900	0.6
49	900	0.6
50	900	0.6
51	720	0.48
52	720	0.48
53	720	0.48
54	720	0.48
55	720	0.48
56	720	0.48
57	720	0.48
58	720	0.48
59	720	0.48
60	720	0.48
61	540	0.36
62	540	0.36
63	540	0.36
64	540	0.36
65	540	0.36
66	540	0.36
67	540	0.36
68	540	0.36
69	540	0.36
70	540	0.36
71	510	0.34
72	510	0.34
73	510	0.34
74	510	0.34
75	510	0.34
76	510	0.34
77	510	0.34
78	510	0.34
79	510	0.34
80	510	0.34
81	390	0.26
82	390	0.26
83	390	0.26
84	390	0.26
85	390	0.26
86	390	0.26
87	390	0.26
88	390	0.26
89	390	0.26
90	390	0.26
91	300	0.2
92	300	0.2
93	300	0.2
94	300	0.2
95	300	0.2
96	300	0.2
97	300	0.2
98	300	0.2
99	300	0.2
100	300	0.2
	150000	100

Goodluck2me · 22-02-2008 2:29pm

Option B

I wont say this very often, but i agree with geoff - thats a much better payout sructure.

/just got sick in my mouth/

PLACE PRIZE € %
1 21000 14
2 14400 9.6
3 11400 7.6
4 8400 5.6
5 6600 4.4
6 5250 3.5
7 4050 2.7
8 3000 2
9 2250 1.5
10 1650
11 1450
21-30 1300
31-40 1100
41-50 900
51-60 700
61-70 550
71-80 500
81-90 400
91-100 300

Just to make the numbers a bit rounder

ditpoker · 22-02-2008 2:35pm

goodluck2me wrote: »

I wont say this very often, but i agree with geoff - thats a much better payout sructure.

/just got sick in my mouth/

for jeo!

ditpoker · 22-02-2008 2:35pm

hmmm.. 80-60 is approx 500 to 550, tiny pay jump.. hmmm...
i suppose the pay jumps arent that big an issue as the it climbs, top 40 all get 1k+

ditpoker · 22-02-2008 2:46pm

1200 runners, €150,000 prizepool. Much more gradual and appropriate pay jumps. top 20 all get €1500 which is 10 times your buy in. Top 40 get €1000+


PLACE	PRIZE &#8364;	%
1	21000	14
2	14400	9.6
3	11550	7.7
4	8250	5.5
5	6600	4.4
6	5100	3.4
7	3900	2.6
8	3000	2
9	2400	1.6
10	1800	1.2
11	1500	1
12	1500	1
13	1500	1
14	1500	1
15	1500	1
16	1500	1
17	1500	1
18	1500	1
19	1500	1
20	1500	1
21	1260	0.84
22	1260	0.84
23	1260	0.84
24	1260	0.84
25	1260	0.84
26	1260	0.84
27	1260	0.84
28	1260	0.84
29	1260	0.84
30	1260	0.84
31	1080	0.72
32	1080	0.72
33	1080	0.72
34	1080	0.72
35	1080	0.72
36	1080	0.72
37	1080	0.72
38	1080	0.72
39	1080	0.72
40	1080	0.72
41	900	0.6
42	900	0.6
43	900	0.6
44	900	0.6
45	900	0.6
46	900	0.6
47	900	0.6
48	900	0.6
49	900	0.6
50	900	0.6
51	720	0.48
52	720	0.48
53	720	0.48
54	720	0.48
55	720	0.48
56	720	0.48
57	720	0.48
58	720	0.48
59	720	0.48
60	720	0.48
61	570	0.38
62	570	0.38
63	570	0.38
64	570	0.38
65	570	0.38
66	570	0.38
67	570	0.38
68	570	0.38
69	570	0.38
70	570	0.38
71	480	0.32
72	480	0.32
73	480	0.32
74	480	0.32
75	480	0.32
76	480	0.32
77	480	0.32
78	480	0.32
79	480	0.32
80	480	0.32
81	390	0.26
82	390	0.26
83	390	0.26
84	390	0.26
85	390	0.26
86	390	0.26
87	390	0.26
88	390	0.26
89	390	0.26
90	390	0.26
91	300	0.2
92	300	0.2
93	300	0.2
94	300	0.2
95	300	0.2
96	300	0.2
97	300	0.2
98	300	0.2
99	300	0.2
100	300	0.2
	150000	100

FlushPoker.ie · 22-02-2008 3:32pm

Option B defo and €200 min would be perfect!"!

pokerkingsni · 22-02-2008 7:36pm

I'd like to see the buy in stay the same. And those payouts look much more attractive.

mormank · 22-02-2008 8:12pm

i would go with option B and definitely not move the buy in upwards at all. A 200 buy in even would isolate some players and the objective of this tournie was always to include as many players in as is humanly possible. i realise where lloyd and others are coming from with the payouts etc but this tournie for these players should not be viewed as the big spin up opportunity, rather as a cheap and very novel alternative to whatever it is they usualy do...

30something · 22-02-2008 10:09pm

Can you pay cash on the day (seven days after the official close of entries)?

The Clamper · 22-02-2008 11:33pm

Brilliant

Love The Humor

The Answer Is Yes, But Only If You Own A Time Machine And You Are Able To Travel Back In Time On The 7th Day (before Noon) And Pay Then,

You Only Have 7 Months To Save Up The 150 Squid, So Start Saving Now
Or Play The National Student Championship In April And Keep The Winnings, Then Use That + Your Savings From The Piggy Bank And I Will Pay The Rest For You

Ok?

30something · 22-02-2008 11:58pm

And the cash will be acceptable in the absense of a particualr on line account?

carfax · 23-02-2008 9:37am

30something wrote: »

And the cash will be acceptable in the absense of a particualr on line account?

If you've got the time machine I don't think you will have too much trouble getting money online

carfax · 23-02-2008 9:39am

ditpoker wrote: »

1200 runners, €150,000 prizepool. Much more gradual and appropriate pay jumps. top 20 all get €1500 which is 10 times your buy in. Top 40 get €1000+

This is definitely something that we will consider, as it was a bit top heavy last time around....

I misunderstood Lloydy I think, I thought he was talking about a final table that split all the prize-money (as per suggestions last year).....We can definitely look at the type of structure you have there Jeff.

Marq · 23-02-2008 10:36am

I doubt you'll get less runners by moving the buy-in up to 200+20 or 200+25. but it will make it worthwhile to play.
I went for option B: Dealers plz...

International Poker Open 2008

Which would you rather? (Public Poll) 14 votes

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