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So....Stephen Ireland......

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I know that Ireland gets a kind of free pass around here because people are sympathetic with regards to his personal problems. But remember that this is the player who declared that he would not play for Ireland so long as Brian Kerr was manager.

    He might just be more trouble than he is worth.

    Or maybe he just has strong principles.

    Either way he's our best young prospect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Or maybe he just has strong principals.

    Either way he's our best young prospect.

    I don't care about his talent or potential to be honest. Principals? Not playing for the best coach the country ever produced? Where was the principal in that? Why was that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    I think Kerr called him baldy once. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Or maybe he just has strong principles.
    Principles? Ha! You're having a laugh! :D

    Strong willed maybe but telling your employers that both your Grannies have died when you're going to be found out eventually doesn't lead one to believe that Mr. Ireland has principles at all never mind strong ones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭ditpoker


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I don't care about his talent or potential to be honest. Principals? Not playing for the best coach the country ever produced? Where was the principal in that? Why was that?

    as far as i know this goes back to kerr's u18 days and picking stephen ireland for a game in his home town in cork, stephen ireland invited all the family and friends and so on and so on and then "something" happened and kerr dropped him on match day and didnt play, so ireland basically told kerr to go f**K himself and then wehn kerr got the first team job ireland refused to u-turn...

    I THINK.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,337 ✭✭✭✭monkey9


    The whole thing is a mess because he is quality and we need him. Sure, all this 'should Givens had called him or not' talk doesn't matter because i'm sure Trappatoni will call him up. He won't care what's happened in the past and everyone will start with a clean slate (cliche alert).
    If S. Ireland refuses again, then he really can f"ck off. I think he would have had sympathy from most people after the Slovakia match, but i think since then, sympathy would have turned to annoyance. He seems to be extremely arrogant and i read in a paper the other week Richard Dunne saying that he (S. Ireland) doesn't want to play for Ireland again and so everyone should just lay him off and leave him alone I'm sure there's a few twists and turns to go before the qualifers get under way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭redspider


    I'm playing catch-up and only just watched the FAI awards ceremony - I didnt realise that Stephen Ireland won the Young International Player of the Year award. He wasnt at the ceremony, although RTE did have a very brief snippet from him when accepting the award back in Manchester, and he said something along the lines of "I hope to see you soon". Whether this means anything or not who can tell.

    What was notable was that the award was not presented by Richard Dunne, but by Micah Richards! Has Richard given up on him? Perhaps just parked it.

    I think its notable that the FAI did give him the award, given the shenanigans that have gone on in terms of his willingness to play for the country. It clearly shows they are tying to keep him in the fold. I was surprised that he was even nominated given the situation.

    I'm sure the new manager will contact him (or Liam Brady will more likely) but if he doesnt come into the fold I cant see Trapattoni hanging on the phone each time there is a match coming up. Trapattoni doesnt take fools gladly and will give him short shrift over non-serious matters.

    I think McGeady was dissapointed he didnt get it, given his current form and that latterly in 2007.

    Redspider


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    Principles? Ha! You're having a laugh! :D

    Strong willed maybe but telling your employers that both your Grannies have died when you're going to be found out eventually doesn't lead one to believe that Mr. Ireland has principles at all never mind strong ones.

    He certainly had principles when it came to telling Kerr to go f*ck himself for not playing him when he'd been promised a game and had his family all down. He stuck to them and wouldn't play for Kerr.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    redspider wrote: »
    What was notable was that the award was not presented by Richard Dunne, but by Micah Richards! Has Richard given up on him? Perhaps just parked it.

    Was Dunne not in Dublin on that day to get his own award? I didn't see the awards but that's what I'd presume.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,337 ✭✭✭✭monkey9


    redspider wrote: »
    I'm playing catch-up and only just watched the FAI awards ceremony - I didnt realise that Stephen Ireland won the Young International Player of the Year award. He wasnt at the ceremony, although RTE did have a very brief snippet from him when accepting the award back in Manchester, and he said something along the lines of "I hope to see you soon". Whether this means anything or not who can tell.

    What was notable was that the award was not presented by Richard Dunne, but by Micah Richards! Has Richard given up on him? Perhaps just parked it.

    I think its notable that the FAI did give him the award, given the shenanigans that have gone on in terms of his willingness to play for the country. It clearly shows they are tying to keep him in the fold. I was even surprised thaht he was nominated given the situation.

    I'm sure the new manager will contact him (or Liam Brady will more likely) but if he doesnt come into the fold I cant see Trapattoni hanging on the phone each time there is a match coming up. Trapattoni doesnt take fools gladly and will give him short shrift over non-serious matters.

    I think McGeady was dissapointed he didnt get it, given his current form and that latterly in 2007.

    Redspider

    McGeady? Are you having a laugh. He had his first ever decent game for Ireland against Brazil. Hopefully he'll come good and become an important member of the team for years to come, but up until now, he has been truly awful. Consistently one of our worst players


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    He certainly had principles when it came to telling Kerr to go f*ck himself for not playing him when he'd been promised a game and had his family all down. He stuck to them and wouldn't play for Kerr.

    Did you ever think that some 'principles' aren't particularly admirable? Sounds like a spoilt twat tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,013 ✭✭✭✭eirebhoy


    redspider wrote: »
    I'm playing catch-up and only just watched the FAI awards ceremony - I didnt realise that Stephen Ireland won the Young International Player of the Year award. He wasnt at the ceremony, although RTE did have a very brief snippet from him when accepting the award back in Manchester, and he said something along the lines of "I hope to see you soon". Whether this means anything or not who can tell.
    More quotes from him in an interview with Setanta.

    "I have always enjoyed playing for my country and that has never been in doubt in my mind.

    "I have always enjoyed my time playing for Ireland and trying to get us qualified for the big tournaments.

    "Pulling on the green jersey is something that is very close to my heart. I want nothing more in my career than to go on and score more goals and perform to the best of my ability to make sure we do qualify for tournaments.

    "Ever since I was a kid I have wanted to play for Ireland in big games."



    On Givens:
    "I was shocked to be honest, to hear the things Don Givens was saying about me, but you can't really do anything about it.

    "I think it was harsh, because he knows from his position that I went through a hard time and he has used it to get personal.

    "He doesn't like something about me as if I have an ego and want to be chased, but that could not be further from the truth, as anybody who knows me will tell you.

    "It is disappointing because to me he is just on a power trip as the caretaker boss at the moment and he is using his personal feelings on something that was supposed to be resolved, against me.

    "I have never got a call off him asking about my situation or given any indication that I wanted to be begged back, so why is he saying that?"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    ditpoker wrote: »
    as far as i know this goes back to kerr's u18 days and picking stephen ireland for a game in his home town in cork, stephen ireland invited all the family and friends and so on and so on and then "something" happened and kerr dropped him on match day and didnt play, so ireland basically told kerr to go f**K himself and then wehn kerr got the first team job ireland refused to u-turn...

    I THINK.

    basically correct. it was a comeptitive game and kerr wouldnt pick him because his (wait for it) granny was there, so he went off in a huff.

    thats not principle. thats primadonna.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Eirebhoy, you missed a couple....


    "My Granny just died"

    "No not that one, the other one"

    "LOOK! Superman Boxers!!!"

    "Yeah I'll have it in any colour other than Blonde or Ginger"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    Eirebhoy, you missed a couple....


    "My Granny just died"

    "No not that one, the other one"

    "LOOK! Superman Boxers!!!"

    "Yeah I'll have it in any colour other than Blonde or Ginger"

    All this slagging is great but it really all boils down to one question - Do you want him to play for Ireland again? I'd find it ridiculous for people to say no.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    All this slagging is great but it really all boils down to one question - Do you want him to play for Ireland again? I'd find it ridiculous for people to say no.
    Ah I was only taking the p1ss, but yeah I 100% want the best players available at any given time to play for Ireland. However, once the next Manager is in place (hopefully Trapattoni!) I think that he should only have to ask each player once and if after that the player isn't interested we just have to draw a line under it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    All this slagging is great but it really all boils down to one question - Do you want him to play for Ireland again? I'd find it ridiculous for people to say no.

    No its not.

    At this moment in time he is too disruptive an element versus what he brings to the pitch.

    He needs to seriously sort himslef out before he can be a part of that dressing room again. If he does, excellent, if he doesnt, file under 'never achieved potential'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,606 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    All this slagging is great but it really all boils down to one question - Do you want him to play for Ireland again? I'd find it ridiculous for people to say no.

    I seem to remeber your views on Roy Keane and his walk about being COMPLETELY different.

    Personally I have more respect for someone who walks out as the standards expected and delivered aren't up to it, as opposed to someone who walks out because he didn't get picked in front of his family, or cause some lads slagged him over getting a rug.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,985 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    If we can put out with Paul McGraths boozing, surely we can put up with Stephen Irelands issues.

    He's an amazing talent and someone we need to get back in the squad asap.

    Trappers will be able to sort him out, as there'll be none of this stubborn thick Irishman routine with the last 3 managers (Kerr/Givens/Stan)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,404 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    No its not.

    At this moment in time he is too disruptive an element versus what he brings to the pitch.

    He needs to seriously sort himslef out before he can be a part of that dressing room again. If he does, excellent, if he doesnt, file under 'never achieved potential'.

    He seems to have no problem with Man City, not a disruption, bar wearing superman boxers.

    Dont quite see what needs to be seriously sorted out.

    He had his issues, he took his time out, if he's willing to come back and put it behind him, thats the end of it for me.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    zAbbo wrote: »
    Trappers will be able to sort him out, as there'll be none of this stubborn thick Irishman routine with the last 3 managers (Kerr/Givens/Stan)

    How much do you know about Trapatonni?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    Yeah Xavi6, that does smack of doublestandards.

    Personally I think if wiggy begs to come back then his reinsertion should be considered. I felt the same way about The Traitor after he walked out on us in 2002. We shouldn't be running cap-in-hand to these superstars looking for a dig out. It sends out the wrong message ie that the players are more important than the team.

    No wonder we've got these current problems. Players have bad attitude and lack dicipline and the reason is they think they can do whatever they like and still be assured their position in the pecking order.

    David O'Leary didn't take a meaningless tournament in Iceland seriously back in 86 and he got booted out of the team for 3 years. Was there a reoccurance of that kind of attitude from others in the squad after that? Not a bit of it.

    Basically we need a readopt an attitude of "make it a serious priority or p.ss off". If we do then I can see us being serious challengers for qualification for the next world cup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Pigman II wrote: »
    Yeah Xavi6, that does smack of doublestandards.

    Personally I think if wiggy begs to come back then his reinsertion should be considered. I felt the same way about The Traitor after he walked out on us in 2002. We shouldn't be running cap-in-hand to these superstars looking for a dig out. It sends out the wrong message ie that the players are more important than the team.

    No wonder we've got these current problems. Players have bad attitude and lack dicipline and the reason is they think they can do whatever they like and still be assured their position in the pecking order.

    David O'Leary didn't take a meaningless tournament in Iceland seriously back in 86 and he got booted out of the team for 3 years. Was there a reoccurance of that kind of attitude from others in the squad after that? Not a bit of it.

    Basically we need a readopt an attitude of "make it a serious priority or p.ss off". If we do then I can see us being serious challengers for qualification for the next world cup.

    Ever think that these bad vibes come form the top though and players have had just cause to walk away from set ups? Maybe if we got a proper hierachy in charge the players would respect it.

    After all, no one walked out on Big Jack.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    He seems to have no problem with Man City, not a disruption, bar wearing superman boxers.

    Dont quite see what needs to be seriously sorted out.

    He had his issues, he took his time out, if he's willing to come back and put it behind him, thats the end of it for me.

    If he was willing to fabricate the deaths of two grannies and a miscarraige in order to get out of the Irish squad, then there is a substantive issue about miserable he was.

    If its about bullying, thats one thing. If its about a lonely young man who doesnt want to be away from home and has no real desire to be there anyway, well he is finished in international football.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    If he doesn't come back, we will have to wait another generation for a top class central midfielder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭missingtime


    What I've noticed about this is:

    1. Don Givens is a jumped up johnny who thinks is more important to the set-up that anyone else.
    2. Ireland made a mistake and it should have been rectified as soon as possible. If we had propper people in charge it would have been.
    3. If Trappatoni and Brady do become part of the set-up, then I think Brady will have a word and sort the whole thing out.

    Souness said it best "The situation needed managing" and there was no one in place, sorry no one capabale in place, to do this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,404 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    If he was willing to fabricate the deaths of two grannies and a miscarraige in order to get out of the Irish squad, then there is a substantive issue about miserable he was.

    Woooh, there has never been any even basic shred of evidence to back up the miscarriage being faked. Which by this stage probably means his poor girlfriend did in fact suffer a miscarriage.

    Its unfair to take it any other way really, and taking it at face value, he's had his time out, he's got stuck into his club football and after a slump in form, has really picked himself back up now. He's not the brightest chap, but he doesn't seem like a bad guy either.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    Woooh, there has never been any even basic shred of evidence to back up the miscarriage being faked. Which by this stage probably means his poor girlfriend did in fact suffer a miscarriage.

    Its unfair to take it any other way really, and taking it at face value, he's had his time out, he's got stuck into his club football and after a slump in form, has really picked himself back up now. He's not the brightest chap, but he doesn't seem like a bad guy either.
    What??? No evidence? Are ya mad? He lied twice about his Granny dying and then a week later, while playing for his club side, pulled down his shorts to reveal his Superman underpants after scoring a goal. The guy is very talented but he obviously has a screw loose.

    Funny how it's a person from Cork and a Man City fan defending his actions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    PHB wrote: »
    If he doesn't come back, we will have to wait another generation for a top class central midfielder.

    Top class? Hmmmm.

    Well he is the one in self imposed exile, so ball is in his court. If he wants to come back, he can advise the new manager he is available for selection again.

    Until then, this is a pointless debate.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    PHB wrote: »
    If he doesn't come back, we will have to wait another generation for a top class central midfielder.

    Yeah, but if he comes back without the right attitude then his affect on the squad will not be 'top class'.

    At the end of the day, using a personal grudge with an individual (Brian Kerr) as an excuse not to play for your country is an indication that his motivations for playing would not be national pride or the passion of giving something back to the Irish team and it's supporters. Therefore, we don't need him.


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