Mac or PC for Audio Production

unclebill98

I was just wondering what computer people here use for there Music Production.

I just noticed a few Audio heads on the Mac Forum and was just wondering.

I'm using a Mac, well a old Powerbook, never let me down etc.

I am not looking for a Mac Vs PC debate, that would just be unfair to PC users cause they'll loose.

so anybody?

PaulBrewer

Always been Mac myself.

trackmixstudio

Before the old mac vs pc debate starts up, I will say mac because EVERY pro studio uses mac for good reason.
The computer and OS are 100% compatible and reliable.
Macs use core audio which is part of the operating system, whereas pcs use drivers (such as asio) that run on top of the operating system.
I started off using pcs and spent more time tweaking and fixing problems than actually recording.
I have had 2 G5s and currently a quad 2.6 mac pro in the studio (as well as an imac in work and a macbook and macbook pro at home). Never let me down ever.
No contest.
You may find people posting saying that you can build a blah blah pro audio pc for less than the cost of a mac.
Anyone I have ever spoken to (and I know many) who have switched from pc to mac and would not dream of going back.

unclebill98

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Before the old mac vs pc debate starts up, I will say mac because EVERY pro studio uses mac for good reason.
The computer and OS are 100% compatible and reliable.
Macs use core audio which is part of the operating system, whereas pcs use drivers (such as asio) that run on top of the operating system.
I started off using pcs and spent more time tweaking and fixing problems than actually recording.
I have had 2 G5s and currently a quad 2.6 mac pro in the studio (as well as an imac in work and a macbook and macbook pro at home). Never let me down ever.
No contest.
You may find people posting saying that you can built a blah blah pro audio pc for less than the cost of a mac.
Anyone I have ever spoken to (and I know many) who have switched from pc to mac and would not dream of going back.

well that would be pretty much my argument for using mac's...

cornbb

PC at home and Mac at work at the mo but hope to switch to Mac at home soon. Logic 8 has seduced me beyond belief :cool:

11811

Mac. - Fact!

studiorat

I toyed with the idea of moving over to PC. I've an old G4 with PT HD and it's gonna cost €2,500 to switch my PCI cards to PCIe in order to use them with a new Mac Pro. We spec'd up a PC that was a similar board and chipset to a Mac Pro and it came to less than a Grand (using PCI cards).

I've never owned a PC so I still haven't made the Jump. (still too scared) There's lost of people using PC's with their Pro Tools and most seem to be doing it with very little hassle. Mike Hedges is one person who comes to mind. If only we could have OSX on a PC!!!! We have both computers in the studio and it would seem to me that the PC needs more maintenance.

Mind you you'd have to pry my Powerbook out of my cold dead hands!

unclebill98

In a studio setup your computer should be set and forget....

I've always found that you never get that with a PC.

You should turn on computer launch your software and work away...

dav nagle

Hey,


As a a p.c. user for many years I found myself constantly trying to tweak it to keep it running smoothly. For example I would use no ad-ware and spyware to keep malicious files off the computer and I would run virus checks all the time. The point I am making is that I was more paranoid using a PC.

I found the operating system unstable and at times my p.c. would crash to the annoying 'blue screen of death'.

I was very comfortable in the P.C operating environment so making the switch at the time seemed uncomfortable.

In January of 2007 I bought a mac pro and within one week I had a handle on its operation. The system has never crashed on me once. The system is practically virus free so my paranoia has left. I have recorded an album in 4 months on it with 100% stability. Not to mention the fact that I can run loads of 'AU' be it in Logic or 'RTAS' in Pro tools.

Mac is king, stress free operating system with so much power and room for upgrade.

Peace out

white_falcon

dav nagle wrote: »

Hey,


As a a p.c. user for many years I found myself constantly trying to tweak it to keep it running smoothly. For example I would use no ad-ware and spyware to keep malicious files off the computer and I would run virus checks all the time. The point I am making is that I was more paranoid using a PC.

I found the operating system unstable and at times my p.c. would crash to the annoying 'blue screen of death'.

I was very comfortable in the P.C operating environment so making the switch at the time seemed uncomfortable.

In January of 2007 I bought a mac pro and within one week I had a handle on its operation. The system has never crashed on me once. The system is practically virus free so my paranoia has left. I have recorded an album in 4 months on it with 100% stability. Not to mention the fact that I can run loads of 'AU' be it in Logic or 'RTAS' in Pro tools.

Mac is king, stress free operating system with so much power and room for upgrade.

Peace out

one of the things i really disagree with is the price of a Mac. I can understrand all the other points, but if you are recording at home, the PC that you can get for the price of a Mac, really does tip the balance towards the PC in my opinion. However, I can understand the other points about drivers etc....

But why not get a PC and install Mac OS on it if the operating system is so stable? The only difference in actual building terms between a Mac and a PC is the pretty white case, and the build quality in a Mac is obviously better - if you are good at building PC's however, this is nothing to be pushed about.

I'm not saying PC's are better, just I can't justify spending that much money on a Mac and not being able to use it for other things like gaming etc...

studiorat

I've had the same Mac computer for over six years now. Doing 3 to 4 albums a year as well as small gigs. I guess it's paid for itself at this stage.

cornbb

Yes, I think Macs are inexcusably overpriced, and thats the main thing thats been putting me off buying one for years. The OS is amazing but the hardware is nothing particularly special and is very much overpriced.

white_falcon wrote:

But why not get a PC and install Mac OS on it if the operating system is so stable? The only difference in actual building terms between a Mac and a PC is the pretty white case, and the build quality in a Mac is obviously better - if you are good at building PC's however, this is nothing to be pushed about.

Its against the terms of Mac OS license agreement to install it on non-Apple hardware (and its possibly illegal to do so, I'm not sure of the ins and outs of it), besides its incredibly different to build a "Hackintosh", a frankenstein of a PC running OS X. This restriction allows Apple to justify charging high prices for their hardware, as in order to run OS X people must buy hardware from Apple only, at whatever price they dictate.

On the other hand, it is now possible to install Windows XP/Vista on Apple hardware and have the ability to do all the things that come with that, i.e. play games, run PC-only audio apps, get viruses, etc... I do this on my Mac at work using Parallels and it works very nicely.

Helix

it really depends how good you are with computers and if youre bothered putting time in to optimize a system

if you want it to run fine out of the box but pay a fair bit more, mac is your man

if you know how to built, maintain and run a machine from the ground up and dont mind spending a bit of time under the hood to get things just how you like them, go for a pc

its as simple as that

judas101

just looking on the mac site there and you can get logic 8 for only 199 bills with any mac.


seems like a good deal!

PaulBrewer

Helix wrote: »

if you know how to built, maintain and run a machine from the ground up and dont mind spending a bit of time under the hood to get things just how you like them, go for a pc

its as simple as that

Of course that has nothing to do with music, that's what I'm interested in......

JJV

I work with both Macs & PCs, both systems fall over occasionally, but Macs less so in my experience. The beauty of Macs for me is that they are so simple to fix. Within a couple of hours you can have the drives backed up & re-formatted & a complete vanilla re-installation of the OS up & running. No worries about the bios, hunting all over the internet for drivers & having to have your OS scanned for authenticity by Uncle Bill. In fact a lot of PCs now come with no OS disk at all, it is just stored on a recovery partition on your HD. Where does that leave you when/if the drive dies?

Also, in my opinion Windows XP does become slower & slower over time, necessitating re-installation anyway. For me PCs offer greater value but at the added expense of requiring more hand holding.....oh, & Macs look great;)

JJ
www.jjvernon.com

cornbb

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Of course that has nothing to do with music, that's what I'm interested in......

There's absolutely no harm in spending a bit of time learning to tweak things behind the scenes regardless of which system you use. Although Macs also beat PCs in terms of ease and pleasure when it comes to configuring their inner workings.

judas101 wrote: »

just looking on the mac site there and you can get logic 8 for only 199 bills with any mac.


seems like a good deal!

Really? Hot damn, I need to save some more pennies fast.

I suspect that Logic 8's low pricing is designed to entice more PC users to the Mac platform. I think its working too, on me anyway!

Helix

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Of course that has nothing to do with music, that's what I'm interested in......

which is precisely why i posted this:

if you want it to run fine out of the box but pay a fair bit more, mac is your man

before the part you quoted

anyway, if youre reliant on a computer for your music and do it any way seriously, you should have a pretty good knowledge of how the machine works, how to tweak it, and how to fix any issues imo

squibs

On the other hand, the amount of software available for the PC dwarfs what's available for the mac, and why do RTAS/AU plugs cost so much more than vsts? Also, it is kind of scary the way Apple changes direction - e.g. the motorola->Intel switch, and the OSX (dump-all-your-old-software) changeover. I kind of like being able to run Hammerhead (vintage 1995?) on a modern PC.

Helix

cornbb wrote: »

I suspect that Logic 8's low pricing is designed to entice more PC users to the Mac platform. I think its working too, on me anyway!

ill never move to macs unless they stop being so hideously overpriced

currently my setup has no computers at all tho, so im free of the devil

cornbb

squibs wrote: »

On the other hand, the amount of software available for the PC dwarfs what's available for the mac

Happily, its now possible to run all this stuff on Windows on a Mac, thanks to the Intel switch. Although there are still teething problems with audio drivers when running Windows on a Mac, AFAIK.

Helix wrote: »

ill never move to macs unless they stop being so hideously overpriced

I was of precisely the same opinion til I learned that I could by a Mac with 20% off and no VAT via my workplace

[/brags]

currently my setup has no computers at all tho, so im free of the devil

Now that requires a bit more elaboration I think

PaulBrewer

Helix wrote: »

ill never move to macs unless they stop being so hideously overpriced

currently my setup has no computers at all tho, so im free of the devil

Hell Yea!

unclebill98

I do agree that Macs are expensive, but you can not put a price on the stableness when it comes to recording. So i guess thats what your paying for.

Some of the mac ad's are spot on when it comes to the reason why a mac is just better.

A setup with no PC???

As for software, 99% of the major software comes for both platforms. Games are a little of topic, but yes you can not get half the titles on the mac.

Core Audio is another major plus, as mentioned by trackmix.

Mac "it just works".

white_falcon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UNSfm4Of80

studiorat

My take on that is...
If the guy's stoopid enough to pay his mate a listen to his I-Pod? He deserves to be using a crap PC.

Helix

im surprised so many people are surprised at a no computer setup

unclebill98

Helix wrote: »

im surprised so many people are surprised at a no computer setup

Well I know there are plenty of multi-trackers etc. But with it being so easy and cheap its just unusual.

dav nagle

If computers were a fabric then I would say the PC is very itchy and at times to uncomfortable to wear while macs are soft and comfortable especially around the neck and throat areas!:eek:

unclebill98

dav nagle wrote: »

If computers were a fabric then I would say the PC is very itchy and at times to uncomfortable to wear while macs are soft and comfortable especially around the neck and throat areas!:eek:

teamdresch

I built and set up my music PC myself.
Since I got it setup it hasn't crashed, beeped or even looked at me sideways.
How?

1. No internet, ****e or unnecessary junk on it.
2. Disabling hardware I don't need - ethernet, sound card etc. etc.
3. Putting together a reliable spec using hardware that's been demonstrated to run well with protools.

I daresay it worked out a good bit cheaper than a comparable quad-core Mac, but then again, I can't run Logic on it.

Either can work just as well with a bit of care.

PaulBrewer

teamdresch wrote: »

I built and set up my music PC myself.
Since I got it setup it hasn't crashed, beeped or even looked at me sideways.
How?

1. No internet, ****e or unnecessary junk on it.
2. Disabling hardware I don't need - ethernet, sound card etc. etc.
3. Putting together a reliable spec using hardware that's been demonstrated to run well with protools.

I daresay it worked out a good bit cheaper than a comparable quad-core Mac, but then again, I can't run Logic on it.

Either can work just as well with a bit of care.

While we invariably supply Macs, the general opinon is Pro Tools can work equally as well on either platform

Helix

teamdresch wrote: »

Either can work just as well with a bit of care.

thats the important point

you can take less care of a mac and not have too many problems, with a pc you really have to be extra careful

its just a trade off of maintenance v cash

if you dont mind the maintenance you save money, if youre willing to pay more you save having to do the maintenance

and thats the bottom line really

teamdresch

Helix wrote: »

if you dont mind the maintenance you save money, if youre willing to pay more you save having to do the maintenance

My PC's been running without maintenance for a year and a half now.

The only difference I can see is in having to take a bit of care during initial setup. Which you should be doing anyway.

Macs - work outta the box, cost more.
PCs - work with a bit of care, cost less.

frobisher

Ah, this old chestnut!

I remember first getting a mac dedicated to audio. I felt like I stepped into the big time. Back then (late 90's) if you didn't have a mac in your studio...sure you were just messin' around. Ok, I'm pushing it, but Macs really have managed to hold onto this holy mystique that is in my opinion long since redundant. But don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly enamoured by PC's either. I would probably lean a little towards PC's in general and think they are absolutely brilliant for audio. They certainly have been for me. I also have to admit that I'm bit anti-mac. To me they are a big soul-less multi-national machine that have managed to create a brand that people identfy with beyond nearly anything else. I know alot of people to whom Mac is like a symbol of who they are. They way I see it is that it's a sophisticated calculator that is as dull as a box of bricks wrapped in pretty paper.

In relation to audio apps there's a reason Macs are held up there. Saying PC is like saying car, saying mac is like saying Ford. See the difference? So back when running audio was a really tough task for computers, hardware and software developers had a far, far easier time designing for a platform of which they knew the constiuent parts. They could just ring mac and ask them then work their products around that. PC's varied wildly. I remeber pulling apart PC systems that just wouldn't run a certain app to find out the graphics card would cause it to fail. Comparing Mac & PC back then was like comparing apples and oranges. They are round and fruity but very different beasts. At this stage the playing field seems to have levelled a bit. Maybe even leaning towards PC's with the power you can get for the money. And as an audio user on a budget I want as much power as I can get for as little as I can get it.

As for stability? My mac gave me as many problems as my PC, which is to say very, very few. And my PC is an off the shelf Dell. The were both grand. But there's one thing about Mac's I really, really don't like........ NO RIGHT CLICK!!!

cornbb

frobisher wrote: »

Ah, this old chestnut!

I remember first getting a mac dedicated to audio. I felt like I stepped into the big time. Back then (lat 90's) if you didn't have a mac in your studio...sure you were just messin' around. Ok, I'm pushing it, but Macs really have managed to hold onto this holy mystic that is in my opinion long since redundant. But don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly enamoured by PC's either. I would probably lean a little towards PC's in general and think they are absolutely brilliant for audio. They certainly have been for me. I also have to admit that I'm bit anti-mac. To me they are a big soul-less multi-national machine that have managed to create a brand that people identfy with beyond nearly anything else. I know alot of people to whom Mac is like a symbol of who they are. They way I see it is that it's a sophisticated calculator that is as dull as a box of bricks wrapped in pretty paper.

In relation to audio apps there's a reason Macs are held up there. Saying PC is like saying car, saying mac is like saying Ford. See the difference? So back when running audio was a really tough task for computers, hardware and software developers had a far, far easier time designing for a platform of which they knew the constiuent parts. They could just ring mac and ask them then work their products around that. PC's varied wildly. I remeber pulling aprt PC systems that just wouldn't run a certain app to find out the graphics card would cause it to fail. Comparing Mac & PC back then was like comparing apples and oranges. They are round and fruity but very different beasts. At this stage the playing feild seems to have leveled a bit. Maybe even leaning towards PC's with the power you can get for the money. And as an audio user on a budget I want as much power as I can get for as little as I can get it.

As for stability? My mac gave me as many problems as my PC, which is to say very, very few. And my PC is an off the shelf Dell. The were both grand. But there's one thing about Mac's I really, really don't like........ NO RIGHT CLICK!!!

Great post. The "cult of Apple/lifestyle in a box" thing has put me off Macs for ages, along with the proprietary nature of the things and the inflated cost. I do agree that the PC is still a great platform for audio, especially for programmers anyone who like hacking around with things.

On a purely pedantic note, any ten euro 2-buttoned mouse will work with a Mac these days and new iMacs/Mac Pros are supplied with 2-buttoned Mighty Mouses (which are piles of crap, but thats beside the point)

studiorat

Gimme a machine thats made by the same people who make the operating system any day.
One reason Mac computers where preferred for audio back in the day was that with an Audio card in them they were quieter, ie. their power supply didn't create as much noise on the card as some pc's.

Personally, I'd pay money to see Steve Jobs and Bill Gates slog it out mud wrestling style, the winner would then decide for us which was better.

jtsuited

the 'get more power for your money' argument is seriously flawed in regards to PCs.
With all the background processes (virus software, malware detection, etc.), the rating of processors goes out the window. i've tried to use similarly specced PCs to run pro tools and versus my old g4 Powerbook they were simply sh1te.

OSX is vastly superior to XP or Vista for audio simply because it's not running a million things at once. your processor speed and amount of ram really does not come into it.

and for god's sake, there is a right click on Macs. Get your facts straight.

if you can get me someone who went from music production on a PC to a Mac and went back to PC because of better performance, I'll be very surprised.

also the comments about Apple being a huge soulless multinational that people identify with - there is a genuine reason for it. Jobs is one of the lowest paid CEO's in the states.
That's just one of many examples of why people don't see them as the money-grabbing bottom-line obsessed company like Microsoft. Amongst others. Yes, they are a corporation, but one who seem to keep their customers extraordinarily happy for the most part.

The Mac vs. PC debate is really old and to me really silly. More people change to Mac everyday from PCs than change from Mac to PCs. Do you really think that's all down to marketing from a company that is and always has been dwarfed by Microsoft?
I think you'll find there's a reason.

cornbb

jtsuited wrote: »

the 'get more power for your money' argument is seriously flawed in regards to PCs.
With all the background processes (virus software, malware detection, etc.), the rating of processors goes out the window. i've tried to use similarly specced PCs to run pro tools and versus my old g4 Powerbook they were simply sh1te.

That anti malware overhead is negligible, except for scheduled scans which generally occur late at night. Also comparing a G4 to an Intel machine isn't comparing like-with-like as G4s used a PowerPC architecture. If you open your Activity Monitor in OS X you'll see similar background processes running with a similar overhead.

OSX is vastly superior to XP or Vista for audio simply because it's not running a million things at once. your processor speed and amount of ram really does not come into it.

OS X is a superior audio OS (up for debate, but most of us agree that it is) but not for these reasons. The main reason is simply CoreAudio, an elegant and efficient centralised and consolidated audio engine. Processor speed and RAM are also paramount, as is the case with every computer architecture. Saying they're not is like saying blood pressure and cholesterol are irrelevant to the state of your health.

also the comments about Apple being a huge soulless multinational that people identify with - there is a genuine reason for it. Jobs is one of the lowest paid CEO's in the states.
That's just one of many examples of why people don't see them as the money-grabbing bottom-line obsessed company like Microsoft. Amongst others. Yes, they are a corporation, but one who seem to keep their customers extraordinarily happy for the most part.

I take huge issue with that but I won't go into it as this is a debate about Mac vs. PC from the point of view of audio production and I want to keep it on topic.

I've been running audio software on a well-maintained PC for years and its blindingly obvious to me that PC is a more than suitable platform for audio work. It may not as ergonomic as Mac OS X and the audio engine may not be as efficient but I can't see how it could be reasoned that PCs do not provide value for money. I'd agree that OS X is the superior OS. But with the recent Intel changeover, the differences between the underlying architecture of a Mac and a similarly specced PC are few and far between, benchmarking has been performed to confirm this. The massive price disparity between a Mac and a similar PC, and the proprietary/non-customisable nature of Mac hardware is gonna put a huge number of people off with good reason.

Having said all that I will be buying a Mac soon. The OS has won me over bigtime. I only wish I could install it on a machine I'd built myself.

Of course if we want to be really pedantic, then Linux is the system to go for in terms of power and value. But unless you fancy spending months tweaking scripts, recompiling your kernel and struggling to learn esoteric (if interesting) software packages then I wouldn't recommend it!

Helix

jtsuited wrote: »

if you can get me someone who went from music production on a PC to a Mac and went back to PC because of better performance, I'll be very surprised.

ive used both for years and i always go back to pc

white_falcon

Helix wrote: »

ive used both for years and i always go back to pc

i used a Mac in college for music technology and went back to PC afterwards too

frobisher

jtsuited wrote: »

the 'get more power for your money' argument is seriously flawed in regards to PCs.
With all the background processes (virus software, malware detection, etc.), the rating of processors goes out the window. i've tried to use similarly specced PCs to run pro tools and versus my old g4 Powerbook they were simply sh1te.

OSX is vastly superior to XP or Vista for audio simply because it's not running a million things at once. your processor speed and amount of ram really does not come into it.

and for god's sake, there is a right click on Macs. Get your facts straight.

if you can get me someone who went from music production on a PC to a Mac and went back to PC because of better performance, I'll be very surprised.

also the comments about Apple being a huge soulless multinational that people identify with - there is a genuine reason for it. Jobs is one of the lowest paid CEO's in the states.
That's just one of many examples of why people don't see them as the money-grabbing bottom-line obsessed company like Microsoft. Amongst others. Yes, they are a corporation, but one who seem to keep their customers extraordinarily happy for the most part.

The Mac vs. PC debate is really old and to me really silly. More people change to Mac everyday from PCs than change from Mac to PCs. Do you really think that's all down to marketing from a company that is and always has been dwarfed by Microsoft?
I think you'll find there's a reason.

You don't by any chance have any non-computer related stuff like clothes or a mug that's got the Mac logo on it, do you?

You seem to be reacting like I think PC's are better, I pretty much don't care either way as long as it does what I need it to and as I've said they have both performed very well for me. As for Jobs earning less money than other CEO's? I honestly couldn't care less to what degree he is a multi-millionaire compared to other multi-millionaires. As a plus for Mac that leaves me cold.
So Apples look warm and fuzzy. So PC's look like they were made for accountants. So what I say!! What matters to me are the music apps I run and in my experience Mac is not better than PC. I gave my iBook away to my sister. She absolutely, completely loves it. Why? Becuase it's so pretty.
Computers don't excite me like say instruments. They are soul-less hunks of plastic and metal. I also feel the same way about cars so maybe that's just me.

As for background tasks like malware & virus detection? I don't run them. My PC doesn't go within a mile of the internet. I believe that if you are serious about having a computer based DAW it needs not be on the net. Mac or PC. I've also reduced background tasks to a minimum along with a few other very basic tweaks. But then I know what the standard Mac users reply to that is!

You're right about this debate being old. Not so sure about silly though. People should know the facts and this is a discussion forum after all.

Your point on people moving from PC seems to contradict itself. If people moving to mac at a faster rate than PC is bona fide proof that it is better, then surely the fact that Microsoft, who as you say dwarf Mac, sell more means they're better? I personally don't think sales represent quality in either speed or quantity.

Do I think that most people are moving to Mac are moving becuase of marketing as you ask? I think it without any doubt what so ever.

white_falcon

To be honest, I think people that own Macs are part of a cult. Talking about how the CEO earns the least of all CEO's sounds like he is your leader and you are trying to explain why he is so great. Anyone...and I mean anyone, that I know that has a mac praises the thing until they are blue in the face like they have to prove something to anyone owning a PC

I swear some people must sleep with their mac's they love them so much.

I agree that years ago Mac's were better than PC's for particular tasks, but nowadays its a PC that is more poweful, and can do more for the money. When talking about audio production, I think the difference is negligable nowadays since the changeover to Intel for macs. All that you are getting for the extortionate prices that they charge is a different operating system and something that looks "pretty" - the hardware is the same, so I can't see the benefits of pumping that much money into something when all your are paying for is the OS.

For example.

This is a Mac you can buy from the irish apple store:

2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
4GB (4x1GB) (800mhz)
ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT 256MB GDDR3
4 X 500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA
Two 16x SuperDrives
Generic Apple Mouse
Generic Apple Keyboard

Total price 3368 euros


Now the cost of those actual parts:
Intel Xeon 2.4ghz Quad Core processor - 249
OCZ PC6400 DDR2 - 4096 - 94
WD 500GB 16mb 7200RPM - (x4) - 356
AIT Radeon HD2600 XT256MB - 102
LG 20x DVD "Superdrives" - 68
ABIT QuadGT X38 mobo - 179
NZXT Case - 109
Corsair PSU 650W - 109
Razor Diamondback - 55
Razor Lycosa keyboard - 82
Windows XP - 121

Total cost 1524

Total difference - 1844 euros
Thats quite a lot considering half of the parts on the custom built PC are actually better - eg. the mouse, keyboard, the RAM, the two "super" DVD drives, and the motherboard.

Basically my point is that you are paying 1844 euros in the difference just for an operating system of which the performance difference is barely noticeable in most cases.

If you are willing to pay that, then by all means, but I would rather a computer that costs cheaper, does more things, has better components and even looks nicer if thats what you want.

just my opinion...perhaps I'm wrong

jtsuited

1. i mentioned Jobs being the least paid CEO because someone had earlier been at a loss as to why mac fans don't see them as being the same as other corporations. This was one of the many reasons.

2. About my argument contradicting myself:
my point is not that sales equal quality. most people who have windows based systems have never used a mac. and my point is that if they did, the majority would prefer it. All the market research points to this.

Microsoft also did not get to the size they are solely on the quality of their OS. I think you'll find the fact that it can be run on any generic computer cheaply built has a lot more to do with it. Also their business ethic is highly questionable - look at all the anti-trust suits over the past 15 years. Not the activity of a company who believe their product's quality will sell itself.

3. The argument about 'if you keep your PC clean and away from the internet it'll be just as good as mac (even better)':

I don't doubt this at all. however i'd rather have my cake and eat it and be able to have my mac for audio production and the internet. And whatever else i want. And not have to worry about stability. Maybe that's just me.

And while you may be able to get a cheaper pc, the reality of it is that with a Mac, people don't have to tinker with things in order to get it to work properly (I know some people like tinkering under the hood and PC is better for them).

So you have two options really. Get a PC for cheaper, don't connect it to the internet, tinker with the asio drivers all the time , deal with a far more unstable OS (when it comes to audio anyway), and a shocking aestethically uninspiring system (remember we're in the creative arts domain here).

Or you could spend more money and get a mac. That works straight out of the box, doesn't get viruses/malware (in reality), and has an OS requiring no extra drivers etc., and is comparatively rock solid in its stability.

Hey im new to all of this. A friend recently got a Mac with Logic and a keyboard. I assumed from what i was told that you couldnt get this kind of stuff for a P.C??. Im also looking to go down the same road as him since i started plauying the guitar. So there are programmes available for the P.C that will do the same?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

jtsuited wrote: »

1. i mentioned Jobs being the least paid CEO because someone had earlier been at a loss as to why mac fans don't see them as being the same as other corporations. This was one of the many reasons.

Don't be so naive.

Dividends in the US are either taxed at a very low rate, or non at all (I can't quite remember, it's been a while since i've looked at the US tax system). He makes more money in dividends then he could possibly hope to spend. He doesn't need the salary, and just uses it as a marketing tool for some sort of hippy factor.

/edit: Back on topic, I use a mac because that's what I have. I like it. PCs are good too and have much more available in the way of freeware.

cornbb

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Hey im new to all of this. A friend recently got a Mac with Logic and a keyboard. I assumed from what i was told that you couldnt get this kind of stuff for a P.C??. Im also looking to go down the same road as him since i started plauying the guitar. So there are programmes available for the P.C that will do the same?

Logic is an Apple product available for Mac only but most similar products are cross-platform, and in fact the majority of free audio software is PC-only.

I'll be buying a Mac soon, partially because I can avail of a discount and partially because Logic is an excellent package at a good price. But I'm determined not to swallow the Steve Jobs kool-aid :cool:

ICN

I got my 2.66 quad Mac Pro from Musicstore.com (edit) 8 months ago for €2800 - total.

I think the original quote for same system off Apple Store was around €3500.

So I got the Mac / 4gb Ram / 1 extra 250gb HD for €2800.

An Apple monitor was insanely expensive - cant remember how much it was. Anyway - it was a total rip-off. I had a 20" LG Flat already, so I was ok - but why you would want an Apple monitor for that price I do not know.

Moral of the story - It definitely pays to shop around.

I was happy to pay what I was prepared to pay & not what I was expected to Haemorrhage..

The price of Apple Ram if you order online is a scandal.. and certainly dont even contemplate buying a monitor of them either. You can add all that stuff yourself and not for crazy money.

studiorat

A PC maybe cheaper than a Mac, but when did the music business have anything to do about saving money?
I have both in the studio, the PC is a bigger spec but I wouldn't like to have to rely on it for a session. The Mac is twice as old and runs rings around it in regard to track count etc.

Helix

studiorat wrote: »

the PC is a bigger spec but I wouldn't like to have to rely on it for a session

see, this is the bit i dont get

do you not look after your computers?

thats the only reason you wouldnt like to rely on your pc. if its looked after itll crash as much as a well looked after mac

studiorat

I don't look after either of them. I treat them both with the contempt they deserve. The PC seems to just find problems and next thing you know it's telling me something or other about this or that driver. I DON'T CARE! Just keep working you b*stard.
Neither are on line and neither get a whole lot of tweeking or upgrading apart from keeping the drives cleaned up etc. The PC seems to have a mind of it's own really.
Personally I hate both of them.

frobisher

studiorat wrote: »

I don't look after either of them. I treat them both with the contempt they deserve. The PC seems to just find problems and next thing you know it's telling me something or other about this or that driver. I DON'T CARE! Just keep working you b*stard.
Neither are on line and neither get a whole lot of tweeking or upgrading apart from keeping the drives cleaned up etc. The PC seems to have a mind of it's own really.
Personally I hate both of them.

Ditto.