Should I cut my losses and jump ship or hold out for the upturn

meljets

I have an Irish Life Scope investment fund which I started January 2001.

I invested 50K and as of today the value is 44.5K.

I am so fed up with this. At it's best it was at a break even about a year ago.

Should I hang in there for an upturn or cut my losses and run?

I have other smaller amounts invested here and there and I have recently inherrited an sizeable portfolio of shares.

I am self-employed and do put money in my pension as much as possible but I would like to see my money giving me some monthly income so I could take it a bit easier workwise.

I had been thinking of buy-to-let but it seems is not a good idea anymore.

Any advice anyone - I'm a bit lost

newbusiness

Oooh, that's a hard one.

I'd say leave them there until the years end as you suggested.

Most commentators are saying that current prices (globally) will look like a steal in 12 months time.

ixus

meljets wrote: »

I have an Irish Life Scope investment fund which I started January 2001.

I am so fed up with this. At it's best it was at a break even about a year ago.

Should I hang in there for an upturn or cut my losses and run?

Wow, is that fund really that incompetent? :eek:

So, during a period from 2001 to 2007 it "broke even" at best not taking into account inflation?!

If you had just invested in the ISEQ overall with an ETF you would be have done better, even today :



That return is pathetic even at its best, and this was when the ISEQ went from around 4000 to 10000 in the space of 5 years. What makes you think the fund would make a better return if the market had an upturn?

Why on earth would you keep your money in that fund?!

It's not the markets fault, it's your fund managers and yours for not looking at this before and questioning why the performance was not at least tracking the performance of an indices.

Please take your money out of that asap and put it on deposit or invest in your business. It would be put to better use in either scenario.

chump

newbusiness wrote: »

Oooh, that's a hard one.

I'd say leave them there until the years end as you suggested.

Most commentators are saying that current prices (globally) will look like a steal in 12 months time.

newbusiness, a quote, something at all to defend this?

OP; shocking fund,
it is underperforming, both during a boom and more lately during a bust

therefore what have you to lose if you take it out and put it somewhere else?

Obviously buy to let is a bad idea unless you choose the correct buy to let property - post a few properties up that you think may work for you, having done the sums, and let us discuss it here.

Meanwhile, a high interest deposit account sounds good.

stepbar

Dude, if you had to invest 50k in the funds I'm in at the mo your investment would be worth 29k :eek: Lucky enough, I only put in 7k but it's still a kick in the teeth.

Reyman

In fairness to Irish Life a lot of the indices haven't done that well in the last 7 years. The FT100 and the S&P are still below their peak in 2000.

At the same time the fund should be well diversified so they should have made up ground on property, bonds and the emerging market. My guess is you're being taken to the cleaners with high annual management fees (for losing your money)

You will find it very difficult to find out what exactly these fees are but be persistent and find out the full story.

Reyman

ixus wrote: »

If you had just invested in the ISEQ overall with an ETF you would be have done better, even today :

By the way interesting graph - Ixus. We're at the Jan 05 level now for the ISEQ. A 35% hit in 9 months - what a roller coaster.

radioactiveman

Meljets - check out the percentage they charge you yearly for maintaining the fund. If it's high - for example 3 %, even if the fund rises by 1%, you will lose 2%.
Also if the fund is invested in stocks that are traded in US dollars, you will have lost out over the past while.

kaiser sauze

That is a shocking return, what sort of a window have you for this investment?

portomar

i was only partly shocked by the return until i saw the timefram. how a fund could have lost that much cash in a major bull market is beyond me. i would get info on what the fund tends to invest in, maybe post that here and we can discuss prospects for them. basically if they are investing in anything passably ok, there may be significant scope for upside. if it was me, id do that, leave it for anohter maybe 2 years to see if theres any prospect of even break even, and if you get there take your money out and never give it to these BROKers again. i know thats against the cut your losses and run principle but i think thats how id feel. buy to let in my opinion has zero upside potential in the current climate.

just noticed that you said it did reach break even a year ago, shocking loss over a 12 month period, typical irish fund, think theyre being risk averse by only buying "blue chips" while failing to take into account that a whole index can tank, iseq this year case in point.

kathy2

50K is a lot of bobs and should be able to provide you with some kind of an income.

Unfortunately you are going to have to do a bit of work to find the right investment for you.

There are buy to lets especially in town where rent is going up!!

eggie

You definitely want to be looking at an alternative investment from the current one. Your fund manager is raping you with poor performance and fees (if there is no benchmark before fees kick in). Its not as if its down to them taking a big hit recently if your 50K never appreciated at any stage since your initial investment.

Look around for other alternatives, compare them to your current investment, are they better? Higher returns for similar risk? If you know someone in the investment business ask them their opinion, what are they invested in etc. Give you a better idea. If you need to you can ask a financial advisor for some ideas, cost a couple of quid for the advice but could be worth it.

AckwelFoley

Hang in there for the longterm benefits..

meljets

Good info advice - thanks everyone.

I am going to sit tight for the moment and also try and get some answers as to why this has performed so badly.

I also have a Property fund investment with Irish Life which has done quite well (invested 15K in 2001 and it is now 30K). But recently they have said that due to short term investors cashing in the withdrawal terms are 6 months notice with the value being set on the date of withdrawal.

They seem to be able to protect themselves for any losses no matter what happens.:mad:

kathy2

(invested 15K in 2001 and it is now 30K).

so thats 50 over 7 years which is 7% per annum.

Imo dont really think that is a good return:eek:

Maybe you could think again and just take the best high interest account.

ixus

meljets wrote: »

I also have a Property fund investment with Irish Life which has done quite well (invested 15K in 2001 and it is now 30K). But recently they have said that due to short term investors cashing in the withdrawal terms are 6 months notice with the value being set on the date of withdrawal.

They seem to be able to protect themselves for any losses no matter what happens.:mad:

Whats to stop them doing this to your other fund?
You should check your terms of agreement for that property fund for getting out of it.

ixus

kathy2 wrote: »

so thats 50 over 7 years which is 7% per annum.

I don't understand this calculation?
If I was to put 15K into a compound calculator at 10.4% over 7 years I'd get approx 30K.

I really didn't think that people thought there was still much of a market in BTL :eek:

I highly recommend you check out the pin.

Reyman

meljets wrote: »

Good info advice - thanks everyone.



They seem to be able to protect themselves for any losses no matter what happens.:mad:

Motto: Don't touch funds - do your own investing. Or else put your money in ETFs.

Your cash (labelled expenses) keeps tens of thousands in jobs in the financial services sector. How else do you think the 'IFSC' keeps going?

eggie

kathy2 wrote: »

(invested 15K in 2001 and it is now 30K).

so thats 50 over 7 years which is 7% per annum.

Imo dont really think that is a good return:eek:

Maybe you could think again and just take the best high interest account.

Just a hint on calculating returns, not trying to be a smart ass.

15,000(1+r)^7 = 30,000

(1+r)^7 = 2

7 log (1+r) = log 2

log (1+r) = log 2/7

1+r = log-1(log 2/7)

1+r = 1.1041

r=0.1041 or 10.41%