Bench press - Want the same hit as a deadlift

workaccount

I am getting annoyed now with my bench press. I really want to feel my the pull on my muscles when I do it and feel a pump afterwards like I do with a deadlift.

I am trying everything to hit the pecs properly. Wide grip, lifting bar to the bottom of my chest. Some sets I seem to get them just a little bit but I want to tear the livin' **** out of them.

It's so frustrating and demotivating.

hardtrainer

Here's a couple of things that always work for me:

1) Use heavy dumb bells, something you would only be able to lift 3-4 times. Get into starting position for bench and allow the weights to really stretch out your chest for 10 seconds, then actively assist in the stretch, really trying to stretch your chest out well. Now do 3 sets of dumb bell bench with a weight you can only lift for 8-10 reps. Repeat the stretch exercise from the beginning again, but do it three times.

2) Dumb bell flies. Be really strict with form too and make sure you don't fall into the trap of slipping into neutral grip press. Keep your arms pretty much straight, just a slight bend at the elbow (and keep the angle constant). Use a light enough weight to really stretch out the chest on each rep and concentgrate on squeezing the pecs as you bring the weights back to the starting position.

If that doesn't do it, I'd be inclined to think you're just not pushing yourself hard enough. But try them and let me know how you feel the next day.

the drifter

slap on a bench shirt feel the pain problem sorted....

no seriously.....what type of weight are you benching? are you just doing normal flat bench the whole time or are you varying it? ie borrd presses, floor presses, inclines?? are you maxing out every so often or is it just constant reps your doing??

try 5*5 at 80% of your max and see how your muscles feel...

Colm_OReilly

The deadlift delivers a far greater hit than the bench press due to the weight moved and the overall systemic strain placed on your body.

workaccount

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

The deadlift delivers a far greater hit than the bench press due to the weight moved and the overall systemic strain placed on your body.

I should have pointed out that I am not expecting the same hit as the deadlfit just a simiiliar feeling for my chest instead of my biceps.


The dumbells could be just the thing I need. I was actually thinking before going to sleep last night that it might be a good idea to get someone in to show me proper form for lifts. I mean I am getting better and I think I am doing quite well but I don't want to be wasting my time or not making the most of the hard work I do put into sleeping, eating and training.

It would be nice to have someone to help me setup realistic goals for my body also.

I was reading that thread lat nights on "Can anybody have the body they desire if they work hard enough". It scared the **** of me. I suddenly realised that I may not be able to get this body I have in my head- though maybe I'm wrong. btw I would like a well built footballers physique.

I was thinking of maybe posting some pictures of myself up here so people could give me a good grounding in reality.

Hanley

workaccount wrote: »

I should have pointed out that I am not expecting the same hit as the deadlfit just a simiiliar feeling for my chest instead of my biceps.


The dumbells could be just the thing I need. I was actually thinking before going to sleep last night that it might be a good idea to get someone in to show me proper form for lifts. I mean I am getting better and I think I am doing quite well but I don't want to be wasting my time or not making the most of the hard work I do put into sleeping, eating and training.

It would be nice to have someone to help me setup realistic goals for my body also.

I was reading that thread lat nights on "Can anybody have the body they desire if they work hard enough". It scared the **** of me. I suddenly realised that I may not be able to get this body I have in my head- though maybe I'm wrong. btw I would like a well built footballers physique.

I was thinking of maybe posting some pictures of myself up here so people could give me a good grounding in reality.

See that's why thread's like that are such a fcuking bullsh!t idea. They just kill peoples hopes and dreams and give them an easy cop out. Workaccount, it might take 2 or 3 years to get the body that you want, but don't for one second think it's not achievable.

Dragan

Hanley wrote: »

See that's why thread's like that are such a fcuking bullsh!t idea. They just kill peoples hopes and dreams and give them an easy cop out. Workaccount, it might take 2 or 3 years to get the body that you want, but don't for one second think it's not achievable.

Quoted for Truth, as they say.

Vegeta

Hanley wrote: »

it might take 2 or 3 years to get the body that you want, but don't for one second think it's not achievable.

QFT and a good post

workaccount

Hanley wrote: »

See that's why thread's like that are such a fcuking bullsh!t idea. They just kill peoples hopes and dreams and give them an easy cop out. Workaccount, it might take 2 or 3 years to get the body that you want, but don't for one second think it's not achievable.

Yeah well before (few months) something like that thread would have put me off completely.

It really did make me think about giving up yesterday and after reading I did a lifting session which was well under par. I would have just stopped there and then.

I'm much more determined now though and i've invested money into weights and i've invested alot of time learning about foods and trying to tailor a diet that is suitable for me. I must succeed. I must also be realistic though.

I have to know what I am capable of achieving. It would be great to get a personal trainer in Galway that really knows his stuff.

Regarding that thread though I'm sure it will put plenty of others off that are not as determined as me yet..... but those that it has put off would never have succeeded at sweet **** all anyway.


So lads "Who knows a good personal trainer in galway - familiar with bodybuilding goals and techniques"

ali.c

workaccount wrote: »

I should have pointed out that I am not expecting the same hit as the deadlfit just a simiiliar feeling for my chest instead of my biceps.

Hi there, everyone else here is way more experienced that me so yeah anyhow it sounds like you work out alone?? Just from my experience i made alot more progress on the bench once i had a spotter. Dunno think it may of been in my head but physologically or whatever i find with a spotter i can push myself that much more.

Dragan

People who really want to just stop and fall by the wayside will always find some excuse....be it that thread, some dude down the gym, the club the train for their sport with, an injury, the weather, the kids, the dog is sick, working too much, forgot their i-pod etc etc etc.

The low times are just like another other test to you goals bro, work through em and come out the otherside stronger and more determined.

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

See that's why thread's like that are such a fcuking bullsh!t idea. They just kill peoples hopes and dreams and give them an easy cop out. Workaccount, it might take 2 or 3 years to get the body that you want, but don't for one second think it's not achievable.

Hopes and dreams? If someone's hopes and dreams centred on what they should look like I'd say they needed a first world re-adjustment. Far too much stock is placed in how people are "supposed" to look. The dream physiques discussed in that thread are the product of societal influence not of good health, or strength or anything else. Run that thread 30 years ago and it's "I want to be Sean Connery" or "I want Sophia Loren's big hips and bum". Today it's all 6 packs and skinnyness, 10 years from now it will be different again.

Ultimately, there are 2 sides to health, physical and mental. I'm not for a second suggesting that everyone who works out for a better physique is deluded, but who would you say is better off, the guy who measures himself in the mirror or the guy who just feels better for the training?

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

Hopes and dreams? If someone's hopes and dreams centred on what they should look like I'd say they needed a first world re-adjustment. Far too much stock is placed in how people are "supposed" to look. The dream physiques discussed in that thread are the product of societal influence not of good health, or strength or anything else. Run that thread 30 years ago and it's "I want to be Sean Connery" or "I want Sophia Loren's big hips and bum". Today it's all 6 packs and skinnyness, 10 years from now it will be different again.

Ultimately, there are 2 sides to health, physical and mental. I'm not for a second suggesting that everyone who works out for a better physique is deluded, but who would you say is better off, the guy who measures himself in the mirror or the guy who just feels better for the training?

Ah c'mon Barry. You know what I meant.

Let me ask you a question... Is the guy who sets out with the goal of improving his overall appearance (and along the way becomes more confident in himself irrespective of HOW much his appearance has improved because by training he is taking control) going to be more happy in the long term than the guy who went to the gym and gave up and now feels like a failure because he's been told the body he wants will never be attained?

Colm_OReilly

I'm always slightly bemused at looking for a pump in an exercise. If you're lifting heavier weights each session, with the last few getting tougher, and your muscles are responding favourably, I see no reason to look for a pump.

I also don't really see a pump on any sort of max effort. If I'm trying for a 1rm, 3rm, or 5rm on a press for example, the weight just bloody stops moving! Now afterwards I might feel like the muscles have been put through their paces, but I never really feel the burn during.

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

Ah c'mon Barry. You know what I meant.

Clearly I didn't.

Let me ask you a question... Is the guy who sets out with the goal of improving his overall appearance (and along the way becomes more confident in himself irrespective of HOW much his appearance has improved because by training he is taking control) going to be more happy in the long term than the guy who went to the gym and gave up and now feels like a failure because he's been told the body he wants will never be attained?

If you're going to the gym to get a certain body, and quit because you saw a thread on the internet, I'd say you were unlikely to achieve anything. Ultimately though, I don't disagree with the concept of training to look better. We all want that in a way no matter whether we're playing football or lifting.

I suppose that the lack of clarity we're having here is because we're talking about dysmorphia as it applies to men- bigger, more muscular etc. Whereas if we were talking about the exact same condition in women, we would be talking about extreme weight loss. But the effects of each does not change the fact that it is the same unhealthy psychological condition. It just has different effects.

Now I'm aware that I will cop flak for calling a spade a spade there, but this is the fitness forum, and for me the best way to fitness is to train to be fit, enjoy the training, enjoy the feeling of greater health and to reap the benefits of looking better along the way of course.

workaccount

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

I'm always slightly bemused at looking for a pump in an exercise. If you're lifting heavier weights each session, with the last few getting tougher, and your muscles are responding favourably, I see no reason to look for a pump.

I also don't really see a pump on any sort of max effort. If I'm trying for a 1rm, 3rm, or 5rm on a press for example, the weight just bloody stops moving! Now afterwards I might feel like the muscles have been put through their paces, but I never really feel the burn during.

My experience of a pump is the feeling after working extremely hard where the blood rushes back into your muscles and gives you a really enjoyable sensation.

The burn feeling is what you feel before you get the pump.

Dragan

Barry answered my question before i asked it!

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

Clearly I didn't.
If you're going to the gym to get a certain body, and quit because you saw a thread on the internet, I'd say you were unlikely to achieve anything. Ultimately though, I don't disagree with the concept of training to look better. We all want that in a way no matter whether we're playing football or lifting.

Agreed. Like you I'm more concerned with the performance aspect.

I suppose that the lack of clarity we're having here is because we're talking about dysmorphia as it applies to men- bigger, more muscular etc. Whereas if we were talking about the exact same condition in women, we would be talking about extreme weight loss. But the effects of each does not change the fact that it is the same unhealthy psychological condition. It just has different effects.

Aye, but where do you decide when it becomes unhealthy? I'm threading dangerous waters here, but one could argue it's "easier" to be anorexic or bulimic since all that is really required is to forgo food or induce vomiting.

Whereas trying to build muscle and seek out the grecian ideal is alot harder and inhernetly requires you to live "better/more healthy" since it can't be achieved without good eating etc. Of course that's assuming the person has a basic idea what they're doing.

This is really a very tricky idea to form a solid conclusion on.

Now I'm aware that I will cop flak for calling a spade a spade there, but this is the fitness forum, and for me the best way to fitness is to train to be fit, enjoy the training, enjoy the feeling of greater health and to reap the benefits of looking better along the way of course.

The best was to be fit is absolutely to train to be fit. But that doesn't necessarily mean you'll look good in the process. Which is really what people are most concerned about.

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

where do you decide when it becomes unhealthy? I'm threading dangerous waters here, but one could argue it's "easier" to be anorexic or bulimic since all that is really required is to forgo food or induce vomiting.

Whereas trying to build muscle and seek out the grecian ideal is alot harder and inhernetly requires you to live "better/more healthy" since it can't be achieved without good eating etc. Of course that's assuming the person has a basic idea what they're doing.

No, you're extremely wrong. I would say that NOT eating and pushing yourself to levels of extreme starvation is infinitely harder. Infinitely. Imagine lying literally on your deathbed and still being unwilling to eat.

You're confusing symptom with cause. If I get a flu tomorrow I might shake it off with a day in bed and some Lemsip, whereas another person might take a week in bed. Our symptoms don't change the fact that we were both inflicted by the same illness.

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

No, you're extremely wrong. I would say that NOT eating and pushing yourself to levels of extreme starvation is infinitely harder. Infinitely. Imagine lying literally on your deathbed and still being unwilling to eat.
.

You're playing absolute extreme against moderate here (well as moderate as an person with an eating disorder can be).

I may be wrong as I don't have figures to hand, but I would say that the majority of people with an eating disorder don't end up on their death bed as you're describing. Generally thru personal choice or intervention they find help.

Somebody refusing to eat and as a result ending up one their death bed, where they still won't eat is ABSOLUTELY different to a gym rat spending 6 days a week in the gym constantly training in the hopes of obtaining their goal look. To make a comparison equal to yours, this person would have to be training every day until they threw, where upon throwing up they went right back to it. They couldn't leave the gym til they literally couldn't move. They'd have to come into the gym with a broken leg and still spend 2 hours on the threadmill. Have slipped discs but still trying to deadlift.

Both types of person are perfectly likely to exist, but they lie at the absolutle tail end of the curve when it comes to the relative "norms" and actions that most people with an eating disorder or body dysmorphia will display.

arybvtcw0eolkf

workaccount wrote: »

I am getting annoyed now with my bench press. I really want to feel my the pull on my muscles when I do it and feel a pump afterwards like I do with a deadlift.

I am trying everything to hit the pecs properly. Wide grip, lifting bar to the bottom of my chest. Some sets I seem to get them just a little bit but I want to tear the livin' **** out of them.

It's so frustrating and demotivating.

Have you considered the possibilty that you might have to lower the weight your lifting to achieve better form?. I'm not suggesting that you start pussy-footing around with 15rep (and above) ranges but over the year's I've seen too many people (mostly novice and intermmediate) lifters fail on their goals because they've went for the big lifts and done 'em with poor form.

I'd also recommend you try dips, if your gym has a V dip bars (goes from narrow to wide grip) try wide grip dips. If you don't, try flair out your elbows, go deep and really concentrate on your chest, if that mean's giving it a big squeeze at the top so be it.

Re. building your ideal body. Set yourself realistic goals and you'll achieve most things. You might never stand on stage in a pose down with next year's Mr.O or break strenght records but hitting the gym (like life) should be fun and full of adventure - so live it.

Your goals with shift over time, life and peer's will influence you through various stages of your training. In twenty year's I've went from a flabby teen, to bodybuilding and competition to strenght training (never competed) then in the last two year's to getting soft and fat again due to some personnel problems and now my goals have shifted again.

I look back on photos of myself (I like to say ''through different stages of my growth) and I know the look I'd like to get again, but realistically I'm approaching 42 and I might never get that again, but I'll bust a gut trying and if I don't get it I'll at least have had a fun time trying.

Roper

Hanley, you're missing my point. Mental illness is not about effort. No girl has ever tried harder to be anorexic than another girl, no man has ever tried harder than another to be more dysmorphic. The symptoms vary by degree of severity, not the illness, which is the same no matter how much it affects you.

BossArky

Can someone clarify what you all mean by "pump"?

I'm presuming it is the slightly enlarged muscle after doing a particular exercise. e.g. the guy in my gym the other day who was doing bicep curls for 30 minutes whilst his friend flapped around taking pictures of his biceps from various angles :eek:

arybvtcw0eolkf

BossArky wrote: »

Can someone clarify what you all mean by "pump"?

I'm presuming it is the slightly enlarged muscle after doing a particular exercise. :

Yup...

Or one of these..



Roper tells me this one gives him the best pump.

skibbers

workaccount wrote: »

I am trying everything to hit the pecs properly. Wide grip, lifting bar to the bottom of my chest. Some sets I seem to get them just a little bit but I want to tear the livin' **** out of them.

It's so frustrating and demotivating.

Ive read about it. The solution was (afaik) take sone time off the bench press routine, work on other muscles. Let them rest. Then add a 5-10kgs (after a couple of days) and push yourself to the max. (First Warm up of course)...
SHOULD feel it. Every muscle can get used to the stress. When it happens - do not stress the muscle - SHOCK it!;)

workaccount

skibbers wrote: »

Ive read about it. The solution was (afaik) take sone time off the bench press routine, work on other muscles. Let them rest. Then add a 5-10kgs (after a couple of days) and push yourself to the max. (First Warm up of course)...
SHOULD feel it. Every muscle can get used to the stress. When it happens - do not stress the muscle - SHOCK it!;)

Sorry mate but read my post abit more carefully! I'm not hitting the pecs.

So if I did your technique I'd be giving my biceps a serious workout.

skibbers

workaccount wrote: »

Sorry mate but read my post abit more carefully! I'm not hitting the pecs.

So if I did your technique I'd be giving my biceps a serious workout.

Sorry M8, I Read it one more time.
Anyway, You need to shock your muscles with a new workout. Change the intensity of your workout. How long do you rest between sets? Change up the number of reps you do. Change up the excercises you do. It's all about muscle confusion.... Still, theres many opinions and ways. Thats just one of them.
here --http://www.shapefit.com/exercise-advice-shock-your-muscles.html

Leon11

I'm find "supersetting" db benching along with db side raises really hits the chest. I did it after bb benching this morning and I still felt it tonight when I was training!

arybvtcw0eolkf

skibbers wrote: »

It's all about muscle confusion....

Well thats a new one on me!.

Hanley

Mairt wrote: »

Well thats a new one on me!.

I think it's a distant relation of Mairt Confusion....

workaccount

Mairt wrote: »

Well thats a new one on me!.

Hanley wrote: »

I think it's a distant relation of Mairt Confusion....

Jayus lads. You were up very late last night. You should have been in bed around 11 like me.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Hanley wrote: »

I think it's a distant relation of Mairt Confusion....

Ye get'n sMairt, want yur go?.

Planet X

Sorry, newbie question here.
Got myself and son a bench and dumbell set off Irish Weights at Xmas. The satndard beginners stuff.
Flat incline bench / 55kg set.
Are you guys saying that this set up is different / more beneficial than a bench press? (ie is a bench press a resistance machine?)

Cheers.

nibble

Planet X wrote: »

Sorry, newbie question here.
Got myself and son a bench and dumbell set off Irish Weights at Xmas. The satndard beginners stuff.
Flat incline bench / 55kg set.
Are you guys saying that this set up is different / more beneficial than a bench press? (ie is a bench press a resistance machine?)

Cheers.

A bench press is a compound lift where you lie on a bench and "pull" a barbell to your chest and then push it back up again, simple as. Hits the pectorals/triceps mostly but other upper body muscles are involved too.

Planet X

That's what I thought.
So, is lifting a barbell up, more beneficial?

jj1310

If you are trying to get the Pecs to work then the Bench Press with a Barbell will not isolate the Pecs proberly. It works the tricep and the anterior deltoid as much as the Pecs. The Pecs are designed to bring your arms from outstretched into the centre if ya know what I mean. Therefore lying down on a bench doing the bench press with dumbells is far better as you can move your arms in across your body. Also try and use the Pec Dec machine if available , this will isolate the Pecs. My favourite for Pec isolation is the cable cross over machine.

For all into weight

check out the following Website www.exrx.net
Click on weight training then exercise and muscle directory, great site for resistance training and lots of other info on other training

Enjoy

Hanley

jj1310 wrote: »

If you are trying to get the Pecs to work then the Bench Press with a Barbell will not isolate the Pecs proberly. It works the tricep and the anterior deltoid as much as the Pecs. The Pecs are designed to bring your arms from outstretched into the centre if ya know what I mean. Therefore lying down on a bench doing the bench press with dumbells is far better as you can move your arms in across your body. Also try and use the Pec Dec machine if available , this will isolate the Pecs. My favourite for Pec isolation is the cable cross over machine.

For all into weight

check out the following Website www.exrx.net
Click on weight training then exercise and muscle directory, great site for resistance training and lots of other info on other training

Enjoy

The real question is, does isolating the pecs make them bigger???

Empirically, the 2 most heavily muscled guys I know are also two of the strongest on the bench. One has done 200kg x4 at <95kg. The other has inclined dumbbell pressed 50kg 'bells x10 at the end of his workout.

OP, just get stronger on the bench and incline and your chest will grow. It's simply not possible that it won't doing this. Follow up with some dumbbell work (make sure you're taking them all the way down) and some flies and if your chest isn't sore the next day then you either have the best recovery in the world, or you're just working within yourself.

jj1310

Try this put your hand over your chest and mimic the move used in a standard barbell grip for the bench press with one arm. Put other hand on the respective pec. Note that when you are doing the movement your Pec does not fully contract. Now leave your hand on the respective pec and move your from outstretched into the centre on your body parrellel to the ground similar to the movement in a bench press with dumbbells to centre of body . You will feel the muscle fully contract, this is the anatomy of what the pec does through its point of insertion and origin. Incidently anything past the body centreline the Pec minor as opposed to major kicks in. Because the Pec Major is a fan shaped muscle with diferent direction fibres then it should be worked through all these angles. Thats why the cable crossover is the best. You can work through high angles parrellel to ground lower than parellel. But yes isolate the muscle is the most effective way to get THAT muscle to adapt and grow.

Hanley

jj1310 wrote: »

Try this put your hand over your chest and mimic the move used in a standard barbell grip for the bench press with one arm. Put other hand on the respective pec. Note that when you are doing the movement your Pec does not fully contract. Now leave your hand on the respective pec and move your from outstretched into the centre on your body parrellel to the ground similar to the movement in a bench press with dumbbells to centre of body . You will feel the muscle fully contract, this is the anatomy of what the pec does through its point of insertion and origin. Incidently anything past the body centreline the Pec minor as opposed to major kicks in. Because the Pec Major is a fan shaped muscle with diferent direction fibres then it should be worked through all these angles. Thats why the cable crossover is the best. You can work through high angles parrellel to ground lower than parellel. But yes isolate the muscle is the most effective way to get THAT muscle to adapt and grow.

So cable crossovers are better than bench pressing for increasing chest size is what you're saying?

workaccount

jj1310 wrote: »

If you are trying to get the Pecs to work then the Bench Press with a Barbell will not isolate the Pecs proberly. It works the tricep and the anterior deltoid as much as the Pecs. The Pecs are designed to bring your arms from outstretched into the centre if ya know what I mean. Therefore lying down on a bench doing the bench press with dumbells is far better as you can move your arms in across your body. Also try and use the Pec Dec machine if available , this will isolate the Pecs. My favourite for Pec isolation is the cable cross over machine.

For all into weight

check out the following Website www.exrx.net
Click on weight training then exercise and muscle directory, great site for resistance training and lots of other info on other training

Enjoy

Hanley wrote: »

The real question is, does isolating the pecs make them bigger???

Empirically, the 2 most heavily muscled guys I know are also two of the strongest on the bench. One has done 200kg x4 at <95kg. The other has inclined dumbbell pressed 50kg 'bells x10 at the end of his workout.

OP, just get stronger on the bench and incline and your chest will grow. It's simply not possible that it won't doing this. Follow up with some dumbbell work (make sure you're taking them all the way down) and some flies and if your chest isn't sore the next day then you either have the best recovery in the world, or you're just working within yourself.

Yeah I'll keep at the bench but I want to hit the pecs real hard aswell so I might get dumbells just to finish them off.

Not sure what you mean hanley when you say does isolating the pecs increase mass. I'm just thinking if I get the pecs right to make them sore then my body is repairing this soreness (ie. torn muscle fiber) with that extra bit of muscle tissue.

In the meantime (before I get dumbells) I'm going to do exactly what it says here. http://www.musclesurf.com/benchpress.html

jj1310

In my opinion and thats all it is yes. Now I'm talking about it being better than a barbell chest press. The chest press with the dumbell is somewhat better. However the last few inches of the movement you are really only moving the weight across your body therefore gravity is not acting on this part of the movement.With the cable cross over the weight is constan wrt gravity as you are lifting a stack of weight directly opposite to gravity.

As I say just my opinion others may agree or disagree.

The world of weights has so many different opinions,techniques etc. The most important thing is to actually get out there and get active, anything after that is a bonus

Nite all

Hanley

Since you're putting it your opinion across so well and doing a good job at explaining it I'll be nice too!!

I guess saying one is better than the other is determined by sooo many factors. One of the primary ones being muscle fibre composition. I can't see the fast twitch fibres being hit too hard on the crossovers, BUT I do see the slow twitch ones being hit towards the end of a set of barbell benches.

Incidentally I think the fast -v- slow twitch thing explains why I fail near the top when I'm doing sets of 8+ on the bench, and on the bottom when going for 3-5. I beleive that my triceps are mostly Type IIb fibres, and as a result they can move alot of weight, but tend to tire very quickly. Much quicker than my chest would. I don't believe this means my chest is comprised solely of slow twitch fibres, just that it can handle a greater volume during sets because it has a bettter mix of the different fibres. But I digress....

I don't think a big chest can be build without at least incorporating some pressing movements, and I really feel they should be a staple. Be it with dumbbells or a bar. Look at Ronnie, 200lb dumbbells for reps on a flat bench, Yates has done 180kg for 5+ reps with a bar on inclines. That being said, oftentimes peoples triceps will fail before their chest leaving them maybe missing the last few reps that their chest could have handled. If that's the case I believe there's a place for crossovers or flys. Either pre-benching to pre-exhaust, or post-pressing to finish off the chest.

jj1310

It is whatever suits the individual aswell and you know your own body better than anyone. I would pre exhaust with the isolation and go straight to the compound i.e. preexhaust with a pec dec and then straight to the bench press. Thats the way mentzer does it ( thus far the only guy to achieve a perfect score in Mr Universe) and an amazing man who was more interested in how to train and why to train that way as opposed to any other way. Would reccomend his books to anyone into resistance training

Keep doing whatever works for you though

workaccount

jj1310 wrote: »

It is whatever suits the individual aswell and you know your own body better than anyone. I would pre exhaust with the isolation and go straight to the compound i.e. preexhaust with a pec dec and then straight to the bench press. Thats the way mentzer does it ( thus far the only guy to achieve a perfect score in Mr Universe) and an amazing man who was more interested in how to train and why to train that way as opposed to any other way. Would reccomend his books to anyone into resistance training

Keep doing whatever works for you though

I've just spent the last while looking into "high intensity training" http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0071383301/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-page

This looks good and read with great interest the few pages that amazon will allow you to view. Talk about a grounding in reality.

I was dissapointed though to see that I could not see what techniques he uses. ie. Squats, bench and deadlift or machines.

I would like to buy the book but I've invested alot of money in a power-rack and bench and don't want to buy the book to find I need to buy loads of new machines I don't have the money or room for.