How much detail should be in a detailed quote?

aromamum

Okay so we have our pp and picked a builder pretty much, but I am wondering how much detail should there be in a detailed quote?

thanks
aromamum

muffler

It varies and its acceptance varies. Obviously a well detailed quote leaves little room for argument over extras for example but the one thing you do need is a formal contract.

sinnerboy

assuming new build , green field site break overall cost into

site enclosures ( temp fencing )
foundations
below ground services ( drains / esb / gas etc )
ground floor
external walls not plastered
first floor
roof , to felt and battens
windows + external doors -fitted ( + veluxes )
internal walls , not plastered
m+e first fix
plastering - walls internal
plastering -ceilings
roof tiles and flashings
plastering wall external
m+e second fix
decoration internal ( and external if relevant )
footpaths , driveway boundary walls/fences gates
seeding / planting
builders clean up / snagging

PC sums (allowances ) - you pick - builder buys and installs
kitchen + utility
bathroom fittings
floor finishes
wall finishes ( tiles )
windows
wardrobes ( fitted )
light fittings
fireplace(s)

allow ( yourself - don't mention to builder ) 10% contingency on top of this - extras / unforeseens ALWAYS arise ( well nearly always )

items follow rough sequence of works

qoute should break costs accross items

progress claims to based on % completion of each item - deduct 5% of claim each time . when finished release half of all 5% 's

keep remaining 2.5% for 12 months - to pay for defects ( snags ) that arise after you move in

agree to this at outset with builder

make decisions on PC's ASAP and don't change your mind mid build

good luck

snellers

Great post, thx for the info - just 2 quick questions.....what does 'm&e first fix' abbreviate? and also 'PC sums'?

thx in advance!

sinnerboy

M+E first fix means mechanical ( services ) and electrical ( services ) first fix .

after the building is watertight ( windows in , roof felted and battened ) but before any plasterboard is taken to site the electrician and plumber attend site to install the "hidden" stuff . Cables and pipework basically .

M+E second fix means the "visible" stuff - light switches , power points , radiators , the boiler etc

PC means Prime Cost . A contractual term to describe "allowances" .

EG you add to the contract a PC sum of €20k for the kitchen fit out before the start of the works . Then you pick your kitchen . It cost €25k , lets say - but that is YOUR CHOICE . you may decide to spend only €15k

NB - the contractor is typically entitled to 10% ( of the EX vat ) PC sum .
Simple example . You pick out €121.00 of wall tiles . ( i.e. €100 + €21 VAT )
Contractor charges you ( €100 + €10 ) + 13.5 VAT = €124.85 .
This is a good arrangement . The contractor has to pay up front , charge you later . If tiles arrive broken - his problem to sort out not yours .

Mellor

Great post there Sinnerboy, contracts are a must for building work.
The only i'd change about the post is i'd take the word snags out from after "to pay for defects",
The two are slightly different, it rarely makes a difference but it can be an issue with a problem builder.

meathboy

Does anyone have a copy of a detailed quote they could share? Also, does this act as a contract? Have PP ready to break ground and want to get a quote/contract agreed. I was planning to get a solicitor to draw up something for the builder to sign. Hence the detailed quote, want to make sure we are not overlooking anything! Ta

sinnerboy

send out drawings and specification together with a list like the one posted earlier - for the contractor(s) to enter amounts against . when they return that list priced - that is their "tender" .

use the RIAI blue form of contract - order from here . no need for a solicitor to draw up anything . this contract is well balanced and well tested in courts .

http://www.riai.ie/

the drawings , specificaction , blue form of contarct and the tender" will comprise "the contract set of documents"

zelemon

Hi folks,

Very interested in this debate, can someone explain the benefits of using the RIAI form of contract with quantities ahead of using a contract with rates, in my mind ( & Limimted experience) the choice of contract has little effect on the overall price?

thanks
ZL

sinnerboy

zelemon wrote: »

Hi folks,

Very interested in this debate, can someone explain the benefits of using the RIAI form of contract with quantities ahead of using a contract with rates, in my mind ( & Limimted experience) the choice of contract has little effect on the overall price?

thanks
ZL

There are 2 alternatives( well 3 - but I am discounting the minor works contract just now )

Blue - without quantities
Yellow - with quantities

Blue form means the builder builds to the drawings . Probably the most appropriate for the one off house , which is not too big or complex . Quantities are not part of the contract . However - rates can be sought as a basis for variations later - eg - how much for an extra power point - what m2 rate for floor tiling ?

Yellow form implies a QS prepared bill of quantities . As I say not so common with domestic - not unheard of either - usually where the house is big or complex

secionn

I read this thread with interest.

In the breakdown of your detailed suggestion for the quote, the heating system did no fall into either the main works or the PC sum. Which one should it fall into, and if it is put in the PC sum does it include fitting of the heating system, or is it the cost of purchasing the heating system without labour?
The reason why I ask, in my quote the PC sums named three heating systems with quotes, geothermal, pellet burner and oil with three different quotes with them. I was to choose which system I wanted, but the Builder insisted that I had to pay for labour as it was not included in the original main quote.

sinnerboy

secionn wrote: »

In the breakdown of your detailed suggestion for the quote, the heating system did no fall into either the main works or the PC sum.

It is listed in the main works - m+e 1st fix and m+e second fix

secionn wrote: »

Which one should it fall into, and if it is put in the PC sum does it include fitting of the heating system, or is it the cost of purchasing the heating system without labour?

It can be placed into either . It depends on the tender offer .

secionn wrote: »

The reason why I ask, in my quote the PC sums named three heating systems with quotes, geothermal, pellet burner and oil with three different quotes with them. I was to choose which system I wanted, but the Builder insisted that I had to pay for labour as it was not included in the original main quote.

Ok - so that is the basis of the builders offer - take it or leave it -before works start .

An unbreakable rule is - anything you leave to firm up on mid build will always cost you more when you are over a barrel . Have as much as you can agreed beforehand when you are not committed to build .

.

Carlow52

one item which is not obvious in this thread thus far is the contract duration and what happens if the contract over-runs due to either adverse weather or not sufficient resources made available by builder.
The latter one is becoming an issue as builders downsize and stretch out jobs

sinnerboy

That is important of course - if a slightly pararell consideration to the thread title .

The contract duration and penalties for time over runs are matters to be addressed when preparing the actual Contract Document

Self builders can often find it difficult to make early timely decisions on PC sums or to deal with unforeseen issues that arise during the build which affect works progress .

A clued up contractor can counter a claim for delay-penalty with a claim for payment for extra time ( which the client must pay for )

In my experience an unwritten understanding applies . The client does not penalize the builder for extra time spent - and the builder does not claim for it