Dodgy Seller

dollydishmop

We weren't looking to buy a car yesterday...we just drove past a place selling cars, and saw something that caught our eye.

It was 197x popular classic, and seemed tidy enough. Started well, ran well, etc. It was on UK plates.
I didn't mention VRT as I already knew the score on VRT for classics.

However, out of the blue, and totally unprompted, the guy said "you won't even have to worry about registering it in Ireland, I'll throw in a 196x taxbook for an Irish car, free of charge. You just need to get some plates made up to match the reg number on the taxbook and you're away"

Now I know this is totally illegal, yet not naive enough to imagine that it doesn't go on. But this guy makes his living selling cars, he has them all lined up infront of his home office.

I was quite taken aback at his openness regarding the idea of giving us a taxbook form another car.

Later on in the conversation he said he'd throw in some wings and panels which were more suited to the '196x' styling too.

We took his business card and said we'd go home and think about it.

Obviously we're not going to touch this car and anything else he's selling with the longet barge pole we can find.

As an aside, the car was clearly a fake version of a well-recognised special edition. He was telling us that it was a genuine xxxx but he may well not have known the difference, and be genuinely telling us this because he thought it was true. But, to be honest, who knows...

Is it worth reporting him, and who to?

Anan1

Who/where is he?

dollydishmop

I'd rather not say for now.

Would prefer just to receive advice on whether this needs to be brought to the attention of the authorities, and which authorities.

Thanks

Abelloid

If it's a classic why would anyone bother with the false identity? VRT is only €50

This guy must be an idiot.

--amadeus--

I doubt you'd get anywhere "shopping" him, unless it was to the Revenue and even then they may struggle to prove anything. Not sure what it would achieve anyway?

Of more concern than someone fiddling €50 VRT is if he is trying to pass off one car as onother - eg a boggo Cortina as a Lotus Cortina - and charging as such. Naming and shaming is the best course of action there, as long as you are sure of your ground!

Anan1

dollydishmop wrote: »

I'd rather not say for now.

Why on Earth not??

mustang68

Why would he do this?? if he was trying to sell it as an different model he should not be telling the buyer!

if its pre 78 then he saves nothing by making it a 60's car (as the vrt is the same)

unless the car is 79, then it would be worth it.

Dades

Wouldn't the older taxbook have a different chassis number than the car?

Sounds like a pointless exercise. Any future buyer is going to spot the difference anyway.

Bitten & Hisses

mustang68 wrote: »

if its pre 78 then he saves nothing by making it a 60's car (as the vrt is the same)

unless the car is 79, then it would be worth it.

I suppose in addition to imitating the limited edition, he's making it an "original" Irish car by putting old Irish plates on it

corktina

this practice is RIFE across many sectors of car dealing....its fraud and should be stopped....quite apart from depriving the state of Tax (which means in effect I have to pay more ) any car on false plates like this is not insured as the policy refers to the long-dead donor car...

carchaeologist

Its true that alot of this kind of thing goes on,but with the latest zv plates with 5numbers,its hard to blame people for wanting something that looks more original,as it stands in this country now theres very few four digit zv plates left as far as i know,in my personal opinion the 4digit zv plates look ok,as they can be made to look very original and in keeping with the cars era,but the 5 digit plates do nothing for a cars appearence,not in keeping with any previous style, and the new style county plates are not much better. Does anyone else think the same?

carchaeologist

Im not saying that i agree with the re using of old numbers,just that a new systym might be needed

Abelloid

carchaeologist wrote: »

Im not saying that i agree with the re using of old numbers,just that a new systym might be needed

Yeah, I think everyone is agreed on that plate issue.

OP - if you don't speak up about this guy he will slap the plates on himself and sell it to somebody.

kyote00

agree with corky on this one. Given that an original Irish car will demand more than its imported equivalent then changing an imported car to Irish plates with a old logbook will add make a quick buck for someone....

Its fairly easy to do as the vin plates on older ford cars are just "tags" somewhere in the engine bay and easy to replace with a fake to match the logbook....

corktina wrote: »

this practice is RIFE across many sectors of car dealing....its fraud and should be stopped....quite apart from depriving the state of Tax (which means in effect I have to pay more ) any car on false plates like this is not insured as the policy refers to the long-dead donor car...

Spit62500

maybe he has no v5 - car could be stolen

carchaeologist

I wonder how this kind or thing could be stopped,seeing as 30plus year old cars dont need to be NCT tested makes it easier to get away with it,im sure many people using this forum would know at least one car thats been re registered this way,i can think of at least two that i know of.They can often be seen at shows aswell, sometimes with old ratty number plates on an otherwise clean car.i suppose the government dont care what kind of plates we have on our cars.

corktina

Spit62500 wrote: »

maybe he has no v5 - car could be stolen

a very good point....easily could happen...

.(BTW Old Fords HAD the chassis number stamped on but usually in the very place that was first to rust, so it is unusual to find a stamped chassis number...

Abelloid

Spit62500 wrote: »

maybe he has no v5 - car could be stolen

Didn't consider that :eek:

MercMad

I didn't think that this practice still went on !

Its totally outrageous, akin to ringing !

This guy should be reported. imagine, at the very least, you buy a Classic ina few years after paying good money for it and then make that kind of discovery ! It seems very strange that the guy would volunteer the info so freely !

Report him !

Also if the 5 digit reg's annoy folk they always have the ability to register it in another County where 4 digits are still in use, and then transfer the ownership. It may not be 100% legit but as long as the car is in YOUR name at a friends address and then transfered quickly there is nothing wrong IMO !

Abelloid

MercMad wrote: »

I didn't think that this practice still went on !

Its totally outrageous, akin to ringing !

This guy should be reported. imagine, at the very least, you buy a Classic ina few years after paying good money for it and then make that kind of discovery ! It seems very strange that the guy would volunteer the info so freely !

Report him !

Also if the 5 digit reg's annoy folk they always have the ability to register it in another County where 4 digits are still in use, and then transfer the ownership. It may not be 100% legit but as long as the car is in YOUR name at a friends address and then transfered quickly there is nothing wrong IMO !

Sorry - off topic but what counties still have 4 digit ZV reg? I have a bus on it's way from LA right now.

Dades

JustinOval wrote: »

Sorry - off topic but what counties still have 4 digit ZV reg? I have a bus on it's way from LA right now.

I got a 4 digit one in Dublin (Santry) about 11 months ago.

MercMad

Yeah Dublin is in the late 8000's now AFAIK.

poiedrws

could ye just name this fella

Anan1

poiedrws wrote: »

could ye just name this fella

+1. It's the only way to stop them.

MercMad

poiedrws wrote: »

could ye just name this fella

+ 2

dollydishmop

Spit62500 wrote: »

maybe he has no v5 - car could be stolen

No definitely has V5 (and I checked it against the chassis number v.quickly) and also had a handful of MOT certs upto 2004.
Has clearly had work done to it, and had UK receipts covering the same.

Not going to name and shame on here...its my choice to do so, no amount of peer pressure from ye lot is going to change my mind, and I only have his first name anyway, scrawled on a small card he gave me, surname is illegible. As a previous poster said, in my eyes he's committing fraud, and I'd rather report him to whichever authority would be most interested.
FWIW he's in Wicklow, and its a Beetle...but regardless of what he says its not a 'Jeans' edition Beetle.

So don't go buying Jeans beetles in Wickla without checking in with me *LOL*

MercMad

Oooh Actually I have heard of this before with Beetles. We discussed it elsewhere !

corktina

So don't go buying Jeans beetles in Wickla without checking in with me *LOL*[/QUOTE]


no fear of that :-)

DarenO

I didn't think the Jeans Beetle was sold over here in the seventies, wasn't it UK only like the GT Beetle (we got the 1300S), i could be corrected on that but if what i think is true most VW enthusiasts wouldn't fall for an original Irish reg Jeans Beetle.

But i agree with the sentiment above that it is plainly an attempt to defraud and i'd approach a Garda or solicitor for advice. It may just end up being your word against his and i doubt someone who has registered their car as being an original Irish will come forward and admit it to support your claims.

Regards
Darren

manta mad

ohh & its not me :eek::eek:

i only have opels

MercMad

My geography teacher had a Jeans Beetle in the 80's. Irish reg'd though obviously she could have inmmprted it. It was orange................that sound right ?

dollydishmop

DarenO wrote: »

I didn't think the Jeans Beetle was sold over here in the seventies, wasn't it UK only like the GT Beetle (we got the 1300S),

Darren, re-read my original post. The car is UK reg

Regardless of that, it was most definitely a fake. Dash wrong, seats wrong, stickers/decals wrong, and the classic fake 'Jeans' logo. Anyone with half an idea about special edition beetles would spot it a mile off.

Will give the Wickla guards a tinkle later on and see what they say.

Thanks all for your advice.

Here's what a Jeans beetle *should* look like:
http://www.sebeetles.com/74jeans.htm

Abelloid

MercMad wrote: »

My geography teacher had a Jeans Beetle in the 80's. Irish reg'd though obviously she could have inmmprted it. It was orange................that sound right ?

Denim seat covers are a big indication, I thought they were all yellow too - just like that Coldplay song

kikel

JustinOval wrote: »

Sorry - off topic but what counties still have 4 digit ZV reg? I have a bus on it's way from LA right now.

Laois does.

MercMad

Yeah that one in the picture is the one she had.....................can't remember the reg number.........she was unattractive,a hippy and it was 1983, whereas my religion teacher reg number was......;)

carchaeologist

MercMad wrote: »

My geography teacher had a Jeans Beetle in the 80's. Irish reg'd though obviously she could have inmmprted it. It was orange................that sound right ?

yes,i think orange was the only paint scheme you could get,they had blue denim seats made up to look like a pair of jeans,same stitching and the like,and some kind of black decals on the side down near the running boads that said "jeans beetle" or something like that,im not sure what volkswagens point was exactly.:p

Abelloid

kikel wrote: »

Laois does.

Cheers. Don't know anyone in Laois though...thank God.:p

DarenO

dollydishmop

I'm not disagreeing with you i'm saying any true Beetle fan would know that there was no such thing as an Irish registered Jeans Beetle so what would be the point in trying to pass it off as an original Irish car.

Regards
Darren