car crash - convicition?

dlofnep

Brief rundown. I bought a new car today, sold my old one a few days ago. Myself and a friend were driving back from meath when 2 cars crashed in front, my friend crashed into them as he was unable to slow down in time and then i hit the back of my friend, as i slammed on the brakes but couldnt slow in time - I wasnt speeding, the ground was really slippery due to the snow earlier today. It wasn't my fault or my friends..

The car was taxed, but my insurance wasnt transferred over as I tried to do it today but the lines werent open - i had it paid on my old car and it was valid up intil this summer. I was also driving on a provisional license.

I know it's stupid driving without insurance, so save all the "i told you so" attitudes cos I'm really not in the mood from it and I'm still shaken up from it.

The garda said to me I might be looking at a conviction for driving without insurance and on a provisional. What am I looking at? I don't have 2 pennys to rub together to pay to fix the car or any fines.

Anyone?

chris85

Ok firstly it was your fault for hitting into the car in front of you as you did not keep enough of gap to allow for the road conditions. You are obviously not an experienced driver as you say its not your fault yet you didnt leave a gap in front of you to allow for conditions.

you are looking at a disqualification for probably a year or so and a hefty fine, and possibily a civil prosecution from one of the other parties to recover damages if they see fit to.

You should have thought about the insurance part before collecting it. You wanted the car today obviously and were too excited bout it to wait til you could get insured on it.

Hope they throw the book at you!

Edit: it is also your friends fault for hitting the car in front of him as he also did not leave enough of a gap to allow for road conditions

Jimbo

chris85 wrote: »

Hope they throw the book at you!

That's a bit harsh. We've all done stupid things on the road especially when learning to drive. I do agree that it was your fault for rear-ending the car in front. Its up to you to allow extra space when the conditions are bad.
Also driving with no insurance is a pretty serious offence.
Sorry for your troubles but it looks like youv'e got yourself into a fair bit of ****e

batman2000

Chris85
Ok firstly it was your fault for hitting into the car in front of you as you did not keep enough of gap to allow for the road conditions. You are obviously not an experienced driver as you say its not your fault yet you didnt leave a gap in front of you to allow for conditions.

you are looking at a disqualification for probably a year or so and a hefty fine, and possibily a civil prosecution from one of the other parties to recover damages if they see fit to.

You should have thought about the insurance part before collecting it. You wanted the car today obviously and were too excited bout it to wait til you could get insured on it.

Hope they throw the book at you!

Edit: it is also your friends fault for hitting the car in front of him as he also did not leave enough of a gap to allow for road conditions

*************************************************************************

+1.
It the the responsibility of the driver behind to acess the road conditions and allow enough braking distance. Driving with no insurance, idiot. It's people like you who have car insurance high for males. Again - Idiot-

miju

chris85 wrote: »

Ok firstly it was your fault for hitting into the car in front of you as you did not keep enough of gap to allow for the road conditions. You are obviously not an experienced driver as you say its not your fault yet you didnt leave a gap in front of you to allow for conditions.

you are looking at a disqualification for probably a year or so and a hefty fine, and possibily a civil prosecution from one of the other parties to recover damages if they see fit to.

You should have thought about the insurance part before collecting it. You wanted the car today obviously and were too excited bout it to wait til you could get insured on it.

Hope they throw the book at you!

Edit: it is also your friends fault for hitting the car in front of him as he also did not leave enough of a gap to allow for road conditions

+1

you can expect a 1 year driving ban and an endorsement at the very least (which means you will be raped on insurance for quite a very long time). you took a gamble driving without insurance and just be thankful no one was seriously hurt or you could be looking at even more serious consequences.

fasty

Another chap posted on this forum about getting done for no insurance a while back. He got a ban and a fine. I'd imagine you'll get something similar.

It's a pain in the neck, but you'll need to take it on the chin buddy. If you couldn't stop in time, you were too close to the cars in front.

Good luck!

ninty9er

Driving without insurance is a mandatory court appearance and 5 points if convicted. Plus a fine handed down by the court. As you're on a provisional it'll probably be fairly hefty.

Plus another 2 points (or 4 if you challenge) for failing to leave an appropriate distance and an €80 fine.

Consider it an expensive lesson as the court appearnce and fine along with any damage liability will likely run in excess of €5k if not more if you're sued. Should have rang your insurance company on Friday and done a transfer of insurance for whatever time today.

Jimbo

batman2000 wrote: »

It's people like you who have car insurance high for males. Again - Idiot-

Not in this case. He will have to pay out any damages he did himself

chris85

jimbo78 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. We've all done stupid things on the road especially when learning to drive. I do agree that it was your fault for rear-ending the car in front. Its up to you to allow extra space when the conditions are bad.
Also driving with no insurance is a pretty serious offence.
Sorry for your troubles but it looks like youv'e got yourself into a fair bit of ****e

Bit harsh?

This guy drove from Meath to Waterford with no insurance and he knew he had no insurance on the car.

All he had to do was ring insurance yesterday and tell them to transfer the insurance effective today. He didnt and now he will learn a lesson.

He drove without insurance and no fully licensed driver (which i would normally look past but this guy seems to need someone supoervising him as he didnt even know he was not leaving the correct gap)

His friend now has to go the long process of claiming off non-insured driver for the rear of his car unless the OP will be man enough to pay him for this.

Jimbo

Its pretty clear he acted stupid and he'll be banned and fined for this. I'm sure he feels bad enough about it, there no point kicking the guy when he's down

chris85

jimbo78 wrote: »

Its pretty clear he acted stupid and he'll be banned and fined for this. I'm sure he feels bad enough about it, there no point kicking the guy when he's down

Yes there is, i get the feeling from the OP that before the crash he didnt think twice about any of his actions.

my insurance wasnt transferred over as I tried to do it today but the lines werent open

As if this is an excuse!

It wasn't my fault or my friends..

Everyone will tell the OP different

Chonker

I feel kind of sorry for you, Its probably the worst thing that could have happened to you. Be thankfull you didn't seriously hurt somebody or your self.

You made a stupid mistake, I guess you can put that down to age. You dont deserve the book but you do deserve to feel as bad as you do right now.

Forget about the worst that can happen i.e points fines loss of licence costly future insurance, and just imagine what the cell would look like if you had hurt/ killed somebody even if they had caused the accident. You are actually very lucky you have learned a great lesson and your not in prison.

I would say your glass is half full.

dlofnep

Guys, I know driving without insurance was stupid. I gave lots of space, but the roads were so slippy i could of skated down 100 metres. I never once did something like this before. I was going to transfer it over first thing in the morning. I would of done it yesterday but I didn't even know that they didnt open on Sundays. The guy was going to sell the car otherwise and I really wanted it. It was stupid, look I know this. I never speed, never drive dangerously.. I'm not a boy racer. It was a bad sequence of events.

I feel really bad for my friend that he gave me a lift and now his car is totally.. I can deal with a ban/fine - but I can't deal with putting my friend through this crap. His gf was crying and everything from the shock.

I just feel awful right now. I don't have the money to pay for any fines, I'm in debt as it is.. I don't know what I'll do. Thanks for the all the replies.

Barlow07

miju wrote: »

+1

you can expect a 1 year driving ban and an endorsement at the very least (which means you will be raped on insurance for quite a very long time). you took a gamble driving without insurance and just be thankful no one was seriously hurt or you could be looking at even more serious consequences.

+1. If you knew the road of the rules which I assume you did as you have your provisional license then you would know that you need to judge your braking distance if bad weather conditions. I do feel sorry for in the sense that not only will you have pay for your new car to get it fixed but also your friend’s car. If they ban you for a couple of years then you may come back a better driver, but to not have insurance for your car was stupid, if you knew you where collecting the car on that day you could have contacted your insurance company days before you decided to collect your knew car.

Out of interest what make was your new car and friends car?

chris85

Chonker wrote: »

IForget about the worst that can happen i.e points fines loss of licence costly future insurance, and just imagine what the cell would look like if you had hurt/ killed somebody even if they had caused the accident. You are actually very lucky you have learned a great lesson and your not in prison.

Good point. i still think he deserves the book as it could have been worse and thats why we have insurance to cover the worst.

OP, My opinion may be harsh but know a few people hit by uninsured drivers and its terrible. Shows lack of responsibility and experience.

chris85

dlofnep wrote: »

Guys, I know driving without insurance was stupid. I gave lots of space, but the roads were so slippy i could of skated down 100 metres. I never once did something like this before. I was going to transfer it over first thing in the morning. I would of done it yesterday but I didn't even know that they didnt open on Sundays. The guy was going to sell the car otherwise and I really wanted it. It was stupid, look I know this. I never speed, never drive dangerously.. I'm not a boy racer. It was a bad sequence of events.

I feel really bad for my friend that he gave me a lift and now his car is totally.. I can deal with a ban/fine - but I can't deal with putting my friend through this crap. His gf was crying and everything from the shock.

I just feel awful right now. I don't have the money to pay for any fines, I'm in debt as it is.. I don't know what I'll do. Thanks for the all the replies.

OP, You gotta learn to drive for the conditions on the road.

you seem to understand the trouble you are in so gonna level with you. You gotta come to terms with the fact that you may not be driving for the next year or two. Also you will get a fine as well.

Talk to your friend and tell him to get onto the motor insurance beareau as they will sort it out to fix his car. Link here. He may have to pay for the first €450 of this afaik. I would suggest you give this money to him as a mate as it was your fault that you hit into him.

maidhc

ninty9er wrote: »

Driving without insurance is a mandatory court appearance and 5 points if convicted. Plus a fine handed down by the court. As you're on a provisional it'll probably be fairly hefty.

Mandatory disqualification for no insurance.

You may also find that you be sued, either by the injured party, or by the MIBI. Also if get any siginificant money in the next 6 years, the MIBI will be looking for it.

Basically, you are screwed, and I mean that in the nicest way possible!

(only solution I can think of as regards getting sued is if you friend admits liability for whatever reason. I wouldn't ask it of a friend though!)

chris85

maidhc wrote: »

Mandatory disqualification for no insurance.

You may also find that you be sued, either by the injured party, or by the MIBI. Also if get any siginificant money in the next 6 years, the MIBI will be looking for it.

Basically, you are screwed, and I mean that in the nicest way possible!

Wow, didnt know the MIBI went looking for income in the future! Thats one lesson that will be well learned.

OP, at least the money you save from not having a car such as petrol, insurance, tax, maintenance, you can put towards the cost of the fine and damages!

chris85

OP, quick question.

Are you the policy holder on your insurance or are you named driver? If you are policy holder you may be covered to drive any other cars (most policies have this for the policy holders) as long as the other car is already insured by someone else. This means the guy who owned the car must still be insured on the car.

Check it out as it may get you out of this. If it does cover you then it will only give you third party cover but at least this will repair your mates car and save you from disqualification.

Chonker

chris85 wrote: »

OP, quick question.

Are you the policy holder on your insurance or are you named driver? If you are policy holder you may be covered to drive any other cars (most policies have this for the policy holders) as long as the other car is already insured by someone else. This means the guy who owned the car must still be insured on the car.

Check it out as it may get you out of this. If it does cover you then it will only give you third party cover but at least this will repair your mates car and save you from disqualification.

I think he would have to be fully comp to be insured (third party) on any other car.

Jimbo

PLUS it only applies if the car dosent belong to you

chris85

Chonker wrote: »

I think he would have to be fully comp to be insured (third party) on any other car.

No I am on a third party policy with One Direct and they have told me I am covered to drive any size car and do not have to let them know before hand.

I have confirmed this a good few times with them when Ive needed a bigger car for certain situations.

I have got full licence though but dont think that makes a difference for this.

denashpot

you done the crime so now you'll have to pay for it.

no sympathy for you my friend.

you'll be paying for this for at least 3 years i say.

another case of bad drivers with no insurance.

miju

jimbo78 wrote: »

Not in this case. He will have to pay out any damages he did himself

can't remember the exact percentage. but at least 10% of your annual car insurance policy doesnt go to the insurance company but to MIBI.

if there less people acting the prat on the road then im sure you can do the rest of the maths

chris85

jimbo78 wrote: »

PLUS it only applies if the car dosent belong to you

OP may be able to get around this as no documented change of ownership as the log book has not been sent in yet I presume. I could be wrong.

Guy:Incognito

Plus the other car has to be insured aswell doesnt it? Oh and not owned by the op. Assuming the op filled in and dated the vlc they will be the owner and liable from today, inc the accident.

Guy:Incognito

chris85 wrote: »

OP may be able to get around this as no documented change of ownership as the log book has not been sent in yet I presume. I could be wrong.

I doubt the gards would let it go like that. if the seller sends the vlc in tomrow itll be gone anyway but if it arrives with the date obviously changed it'll look very dodgy and the gards will be wondering why the op was in possetion of the car , drivign towards his house. Plus theseller most likely cancelled his insurance in the car before today.

Jimbo

Once the cert is signed by the prevoius owner, the ownership is immediatly transferred. I dont think insurance fraud ontop of everything else is going to help

chris85

Stekelly wrote: »

I doubt the gards would let it go like that. if the seller sends the vlc in tomrow itll be gone anyway but if it arrives with the date obviously changed it'll look very dodgy and the gards will be wondering why the op was in possetion of the car , drivign towards his house. Plus theseller most likely cancelled his insurance in the car before today.

Possibly, it is a long shot but may be worth a look into.

I still think the OP deserves the book to be thrown at him but am thinking about his mate here who will have to wait ages for the money for the repairs for the rear-end of his car from MIB

mikemac

chris85 wrote: »

Talk to your friend and tell him to get onto the motor insurance beareau as they will sort it out to fix his car. Link here. He may have to pay for the first €450 of this afaik. I would suggest you give this money to him as a mate as it was your fault that you hit into him.

AFAIK, a percentage of every motor policy goes to fund the MIBI. So in effect, the law abiding motorists are covering the feckless uninsured drivers.
If the MIBI cover the costs and compensation here, does the OP get away with just a fine and a ban.
As an example, if the OP has written off his friends car worth 20k, then it will be the MIBI (paid for most motorists) who cover the costs and the OP only pays a €450 excess for his friend??
WTF? :mad:
I hope the MIBI come after the OP to recover the costs. Otherwise this is "the many subsidizing the few"

jhegarty

How does it work when to op's friend already had crashed before the op arrived at the accident ?

chris85

micmclo wrote: »

AFAIK, a percentage of every motor policy goes to fund the MIBI. So in effect, the law abiding motorists are covering the feckless uninsured drivers.
If the MIBI cover the costs and compensation here, does the OP get away with just a fine and a ban.
As an example, if the OP has written off his friends car worth 20k, then it will be the MIBI (paid for most motorists) who cover the costs and the OP only pays a €450 excess for his friend??
WTF? :mad:
I hope the MIBI come after the OP to recover the costs. Otherwise this is "the many subsidizing the few"

Think they will still come after the uninsured driver. But they may not. They are funded from our premiums, i think it is a contribution of 1% or something.

Edit: And technically the E450 is paid by the victim (the friend) but I presume the OP will cover this or I think he wont be friends with the guy anymore.

How does it work when to op's friend already had crashed before the op arrived at the accident ?

Think MIBI will cover the cost of repairs for the damage caused by OP afaik. The friend will also be liable to repair the car he hit but his insurance will sort that.

--amadeus--

You'd need to check the small print but I think the "driving another car" thing is void if you are on a provisional. Also the OP should have had a qualified driver with him shouldn't he? By not having one with him he probably gave the insurers wriggle room anyway.

Everyone makes mistakes and you are unfortunate that you are going to pay a fairly hefty price for an error of judgement. That said it was a premeditated error, you planned to drive teh car un-insured and so were deliberatley taking a gamble and teh probability of a disaster increased with teh bad weather. Why couldn't you just put a deposit on the car and collect it on Monday?

Anyway, I empathise with you, your mistake will hurt, but it could be a lot worse .

Orange69

Sucks to be you matey!

What kind of car were you driving?
What type was your friends car?

steeo

--amadeus-- wrote: »

You'd need to check the small print but I think the "driving another car" thing is void if you are on a provisional.

I thought this as soon as i read it that you need to have a full license to have "the driving of other cars" on your policy other than that it would be like "giving a baby a gun"

miju

jhegarty wrote: »

How does it work when to op's friend already had crashed before the op arrived at the accident ?

providing the OPs firend rear ended another car, then OPs friend would be liable for that.

DonJose

What kind of provisional license where you driving on. If its one where you cannot drive unaccompanied then you could also be charged with driving without a license.

Our man in Havana

micmclo wrote: »

AFAIK, a percentage of every motor policy goes to fund the MIBI. So in effect, the law abiding motorists are covering the feckless uninsured drivers.
If the MIBI cover the costs and compensation here, does the OP get away with just a fine and a ban.
As an example, if the OP has written off his friends car worth 20k, then it will be the MIBI (paid for most motorists) who cover the costs and the OP only pays a €450 excess for his friend??
WTF? :mad:
I hope the MIBI come after the OP to recover the costs. Otherwise this is "the many subsidizing the few"

MIB gets 2% of our premiums.

Now the MIBI are absolutely relentless in their pursuit of uninsured drivers. They will seek to recover what they paid out to the injured parties. They will pursue you for 12 years. They can get garnishee orders so they will take money from your wages to cover their losses. You only have to go to your local district court to see the MIBI lawyers in action.

maidhc

Bond-007 wrote: »

MIB gets 2% of our premiums.

Now the MIBI are absolutely relentless in their pursuit of uninsured drivers. They will seek to recover what they paid out to the injured parties. They will pursue you for 12 years. They can get garnishee orders so they will take money from your wages to cover their losses. You only have to go to your local district court to see the MIBI lawyers in action.

Is it 12? I thought it was just the normal limitation period of 6yrs

MrPudding

chris85 wrote: »

OP may be able to get around this as no documented change of ownership as the log book has not been sent in yet I presume. I could be wrong.

Yeah, why the fcuk not, add a bit of fraud to the proceedings.....?

MrP

--amadeus--

Trying to pull a fast one on ownership will only make things worse. For a start the OP spoke to the Guards at the scene so will have (presumably) said that he owns the car then. A sudden change of mind won't look to suspect will it!

They really could throw the book if they wanted - depending on circumstances there is driving without a licence, driving without insurance, driving without due care and attention / dangerous driving... A swift admission of fault will go a long way to minimising what they do.

It may come as a shock but the Guards can be human about stuff like this. Someone I know was a moron and got bladdered and tried to drive home. He lost it at speed on a bend and went sideways into a wall (not wearing a seatbelt). How he survived is nothing short of miraculous but he was in intensive care for weeks. He went back home to England after he was released from hospital and we lost touch but he was a young golf pro and I am pretty sure that his injuries put paid to his chances of making a decent living from the game.

The Guards could have taken him through the system for drunk / dangerous driving but let him off. Thier reasoning was that he only hurt himself and he was already being punished.

If the OP comes clean about teh circumstances, shows genuine remorse, makes it clear its a lesson learned and stresses that he'll be out of pocket for repairs to his own car and his friends then they *may* be lenient.

Henry Ford III

I think the offence here is sufficiently serious that discretion shouldn't even come into it.

maidhc

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I think the offence here is sufficiently serious that discretion shouldn't even come into it.

The judge doesn't have discretion, but sometimes the gardaí will give someone the hop of the ball.

dlofnep

Just speaking to my insurance broker at the mo - I do have fully comp with them, so they are going to look into it and ring me back.

jhegarty wrote: »

How does it work when to op's friend already had crashed before the op arrived at the accident ?

We were both driving back together. The first lady was indicating to turn into a petrol station, the second lady tried to swerve inside to get past but there wasnt enough space so she braked hard.. My friend was behind her and braked hard but hit into her as the roads were way slippy... I was behind my friend saw him slam on the brakes and hit so I slammed on mine and skated into the back of his car. The first 3 cars had already colided before I hit into anyone.

I'll have to go speak to a solicitor for advice. I guess this all depends on my insurance policy..

lisajane

If the roads were slippy, why didn't you drive slower? I don't feel sorry for ignorant drivers.

--amadeus--

No offence but you keep going on about the roads being slippy. That is irrelevant - you can come to a complete stop on any surface if you have enough time and space. The fact you didn't means that you didn't leave enough space to the car in front. It sounds like you were driving in traffic and the car behind you didn't hit you so must have been able to stop.

Good luck with the insurance company though - let us know how it pans out. If they accept liability it'll go some way to restoring my faith in them...

You didn't say the type of car or the extent of the damage?

Our man in Havana

maidhc wrote: »

Is it 12? I thought it was just the normal limitation period of 6yrs

6 years to get a judgement and 12 to enforce it.

chris85

This is definitly a lesson to all I think that no insurance will land you in a lot of ****e!!

Hope your friend gets sorted, i know he crashed because he didnt leave a gap but he had insurance and these things happen and its why we have insurance. Hope MIBI will look after him for the damage the OP done and his insurance will look after the other car the friend hit.

Savman

Sorry but the OP was driving uninsured and crashed, how worse could it be? I never take the moral high ground but in this case I have to make an exception.

A minor crash can sometimes be the best thing to happen to you, considering you walk away from it unscathed. Now that your only worry is financial then you were very lucky indeed. A bit of time off the road might not be as bad as it seems.

1 car braking shouldn't really cause a 4 car pile up. Sounds awfully like tailgating + late reaction. At least that's what an insurance company might ponder.

chris85

Savman wrote: »

Sorry but the OP was driving uninsured and crashed, how worse could it be? I never take the moral high ground but in this case I have to make an exception.

A minor crash can sometimes be the best thing to happen to you, considering you walk away from it unscathed. Now that your only worry is financial then you were very lucky indeed. A bit of time off the road might not be as bad as it seems.

1 car braking shouldn't really cause a 4 car pile up. Sounds awfully like tailgating + late reaction. At least that's what an insurance company might ponder.

Agree and the OP will learn a serious lesson. But it could have been worse as no one is seriously injured. They are all alive and well and should be thankful for this

Hope the OP gets what he deserves but glad no one got hurt.

johnny_adidas

funny how someone without 2 pennies to rub together goes off to buy a newer car. sad state of how things are.
be interested to see how things go with the solicitor. i know from past experience its very hard to take in the first few days when something you thought would be ok to do at the time comes back to bite you so badly, you will get over it but it will be a tough and very costly lesson for you to learn.