Threatening mail from Leinster Fan Club

Snickers Man

The following mail from Leinster Rugby has just pinged into my inbox.


Leinster Rugby
2007/2008 Fixtures

Dear Season Ticket Holder,

It has been brought to our attention that a Leinster Season Ticket holder, whom we have traced, has sold a pair of tickets on e-Bay for Saturday's RBS Six Nations clash between Ireland and Italy.

The supporter has been given an official warning and has been banned from ever purchasing international tickets again from Leinster Rugby.

Supporters are reminded that under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should tickets ever be sold above face value as it is illegal.

Now it wasn't me. I'm going to the match myself with my family, and I don't really approve of profiteering in this fashion. If I had an extra ticket, I would make sure it went to somebody who I knew wanted to go and wouldn't sell it on and I would give it to them at face value.

But it is NOT illegal to sell a ticket on eBay for whatever price you can get. It may be against the rules of association of the Leinster fan club but that's a different matter. Being kicked out of the club is an apt punishment. Broadcasting that somebody has committed an illegal act is quite another.

zAbbo

a healthy reminder imo.

EdgarAllenPoo

In all fairness I think the way tickets are sold in this country is a bit unfair. What about your average fan who isn't part of a supporters club or team. They get left out and I don't think that's right.

jph100

GDM wrote: »

In all fairness I think the way tickets are sold in this country is a bit unfair. What about your average fan who isn't part of a supporters club or team. They get left out and I don't think that's right.

i agree although i think its right that members of clubs can get tickets first cos they are involved on grassroots level.

i do think a certain amount shud be sold on ticketmaster though

Amz

No it's not fair, but I think it's a way that the provinces etc. are trying to get people to support and put money into the game.

If in one breath people are complaining that AIL is in decline and in the next are complaining because they have to join a local club or a supporters club in order to get tickets then that's not on either.

Joining your local club puts money into the club kitty, club can put more money into developing players etc. club improves, club gets players on Irish/Provincial teams club gets bigger, more tickets allocated etc.

You can't have it every way.

No matter how you try and allocate tickets some genuine fans are going to miss out. Croke Park/Lansdowne Road etc. are only so big.

Eoin

GDM wrote: »

In all fairness I think the way tickets are sold in this country is a bit unfair. What about your average fan who isn't part of a supporters club or team. They get left out and I don't think that's right.

I think they're right to reward people who support local clubs. It doesn't cost that much to join as a non-playing member.

komodosp

They don't say whether they were sold above face value on e-bay...

In fairness, I would fully support their fight against touting, if they accepted refunds if it turned out you couldn't go... The way they do it, if you buy a ticket, and can't go, or even change your mind and don't want to go for some reason or another, what's wrong with selling it on to someone who does?

And regarding the "above face value" thing... there's also the matter of delivery and any other costs you may have incurred and want to recover...

fatguy2k1

jph100 wrote: »

i do think a certain amount shud be sold on ticketmaster though

if you sign up to the IRFU newsletter you'r told when tickets are for sale to reguler joe soaps. i believe they went on sale in november.

ven0m

If it is illegal, why are they not passing information from buyandsell.ie about overcharged tickets to the police ...... they're not, nor are they enforcing eBay to pull the sales.

I think it's fair, because as someone who has been involved in rugby for 25 years, & followed it for just as long, this is the second year in a row (thanks to the gougers in Croke park with their fees which hit ticket prices) & the prawn sandwich brigade that I will not be able to go watch a 6 nations game live. I have attended every other Ireland game in the old 5 nations that was played on irish soil for god knows how long now, not to mention I am week in week out on the leinster terrace, I attend lainster A games, as well as try go to home league games ...... real rugby fans are being squeezed because the IRFU don't give a f**k .... like they ever did, since they destroyed our leagues with the increased push on provincialism instead of backing clubs.....



:::: ven0mous ::::

tHE vAGGABOND

I'm very happy the branch did this. thousands of people who are honest leinster fans applied to that lottery and were unlucky. For some Muppet scumbag to get tickets and sell them on ebay is horrible. Other honest folks won tickets and cant go, and are selling them for face value or swapping them for other games on the leinster fans [and similar] forum.

What about your average fan who isn't part of a supporters club or team

I'm a leinster season ticket holder, and I'm also an active member of a rugby club [I wont say I play :P]

If a member of the public who watches rugby on TV and nothing else got tickets ahead of me I would not be happy at all. I think the IRFU are correct in distributing tickets to people active in rugby [from kids to OAP's], rather than putting them all on ticketmaster so tout scum and folks who give zero back to rugby get them all.

For the first time since I was a schoolboy Im going to all the home games this year. But since I go to all leinster games and take part in rugby every weekend - why not!

There are loads of ways to get tickets these days [all the various supporters clubs have some kind of ticket allocation], but the easiest way to just join your local rugby club [even as a pavilion aka non-playing member]. get involved in the sport and you will have a good shot at getting tickets!

phog

Snickers Man wrote: »

Broadcasting that somebody has committed an illegal act is quite another.

Don't think so - it gives the heads up to everyone to be extra careful with how they pass on unwanted tickets.

GDM wrote: »

In all fairness I think the way tickets are sold in this country is a bit unfair. What about your average fan who isn't part of a supporters club or team. They get left out and I don't think that's right.

jph100 wrote: »

i agree although i think its right that members of clubs can get tickets first cos they are involved on grassroots level.

i do think a certain amount shud be sold on ticketmaster though

So the committed fan and rugby players should be denied tickets so that an average fan can pick one up on ticketmaster. Also, how do you rule out touts from getting their grubby hands on them if they become easiliy available to Joe Public?

I know the current system isn't great but generally it makes tickets available to people involved in one of the tiers of the IRFU.

Eoin

The only problem I have with the letter is that they were incorrect to say it was illegal - otherwise I think it's great that they're not shy of sending a strongly worded email.

jph100

phog wrote: »

So the committed fan and rugby players should be denied tickets so that an average fan can pick one up on ticketmaster. Also, how do you rule out touts from getting their grubby hands on them if they become easiliy available to Joe Public?

I know the current system isn't great but generally it makes tickets available to people involved in one of the tiers of the IRFU.

i do see ur point and u are probably right.

but im talking from my own perspective.for example, i buy tickets for leinster matches on ticketmaster and go to the match and support them just as much as the fans beside me.

RuggieBear

jph100 wrote: »

i do see ur point and u are probably right.

but im talking from my own perspective.for example, i buy tickets for leinster matches on ticketmaster and go to the match and support them just as much as the fans beside me.

Buy a season ticket for around 200 euro and then you are in with a chance to buy tickets for the internationals

JWAD

They're trying to stop scalpers fleecing people who want to go to a game and are making an example of someone who obtained tickets through a branch and made money on a ticket sale..

If someone feels left out seeing Supporters Club members getting tickets and not them, then join the Supporters Club ffs
:rolleyes:

JWAD

ven0m wrote: »

real rugby fans are being squeezed because the IRFU don't give a f**k .... like they ever did, since they destroyed our leagues with the increased push on provincialism instead of backing clubs.....



:::: ven0mous ::::

Well then when you come up with a decent plan on how to professionally run the sport based on a club only system and keep it viable, do pop by again. Or maybe you'd prefer the players to return to the 'amateur' days?

jdivision

There is nothing illegal about touting in this country. Sure Bertie "gis a loan" Ahern has spoken in the Dail about how he's in favour of them.

daveirl

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Chucky the tree

daveirl wrote: »

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but they wouldnt be watchng it on sky if they got tickets.

Podge_irl

Chucky the tree wrote: »

but they wouldnt be watchng it on sky if they got tickets.

No Ireland home games are on Sky.

I don't really see the problem. I go to a lot of Leinster games, but don't have a season ticket (which would probably have been cheaper, but ah well) so I have no problem with those who are there all the time getting international tickets ahead of me. Likewise those involved in clubs. I really don't see why I should be entitled to an Ireland ticket above these people. I'd want to go, sure, but so do lots of people, some system needs to be worked out and I can't think of a better one.

tHE vAGGABOND

For the record, I'm pretty sure some anti-touting laws are in the program for government - so there *should* be some laws passed in the 5 years of this government..

RuggieBear

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

For the record, I'm pretty sure some anti-touting laws are in the program for government - so there *should* be some laws passed in the 5 years of this government..

so it *will* be illegal but it is not now.

toomevara

It goes without saying that touting is an absolute canker on the arse of rugby, and I'm resolutely opposed to it, especially from someone like a season ticket holder who should know better.

But the fact of the matter is that nothing illegal has occurred here. I'd imagine that if the supporter in question pursued the matter through the courts, Leinster Rugby wouldn't have a leg to stand on...and it could set an unhealthy precedent in law for real touting toerags...

And on an aside, don't knock "Armchair fans" watching rugby on Sky. Those, like me, who pay a premium to Sky/Setanta to watch rugby contribute directly to the unprecedented flood of filthy lucre currently flowing into the coffers of the game. Its just as valid a contribution in its own way as buying a season ticket...

Chucky the tree

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

For the record, I'm pretty sure some anti-touting laws are in the program for government - so there *should* be some laws passed in the 5 years of this government..

What excactly will be stated in the anti-touting laws? As i cant see this happening in 500 years, let alone 5.

daveirl

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toomevara

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agree entirely, club stalwarts should get tickets they are the grass roots of the game. I would just like to see a more generally equitable distribution for the average joe than currently exists. I eat sleep and breathe rugby, but because I'm living among the english heathen I always experience difficulty getting tickets for Irish six nations games...

Junior

I think while the current situation does restrict the amount of general public that can get access to tickets for Internationals and secures the biggest amount for those involved, I think a small percentage should go on public sale, for example 10% of the capacity.

uberwolf

yes, only their official partners are allowed stiff the public.

Like me paying 130 for tickets for next wednesday for tickets with 40 face value.

However today I was approaching the stadium with a spare ticket in hand, and there was a chap just outside the ground looking for one ticket. I handed over the ticket without breaking stride. The confused look becoming understanding as I looked back was well worth it.

Sandwich

Touting is a natural economic response to attempts by ticket sellers (IRFU, FAI etc) to enforce an artificial market that tries to buck the normal market laws of supply and demand. They try to control the market in order to sell tickets below their open market value. If tickets were priced correctly so that supply equaled demand, then there would be no touting. Touts serve a useful function to everyone in the market at present by redressing this strain, enabling some of the price/demand disparity to be corrected. If tickets were priced correctly, and distributed in a more open market, the situation would improved. There would be no middle-man cut to the touts as their fee for partially rebalancing the market, more money would end up in the coffers of the sports organisations, and more tickets would end up in the hands of those who are genuinely prepared to pay the true cost of being at a game.

Dont hide the symptom, cure the problem.

Crash

I did feel quite good today actually - ended up with two spare tickets, and refuse to sell to touts. was walking up the road when my girlfriend heard a couple talking to touts looking for two tickets together. said to your man that I had two together if he wanted to buy them, and they'd cost me 30 a piece, at which point he tentatively offered me 70, and was amazed when i said 60 was grand, i didnt want anymore

Nicest part was when he ran after me and gave me the extra tenner and insisted I have a pint. Made me feel good, even if the game didnt really. :P

Snickers Man

eoin_s wrote: »

The only problem I have with the letter is that they were incorrect to say it was illegal - otherwise I think it's great that they're not shy of sending a strongly worded email.

Agree. And that's all I was saying.

komodosp

Like me paying 130 for tickets for next wednesday for tickets with 40 face value.

Just curious... how did that happen?!

I'm just pointing out that it's hardly unfair that people coaching and refereeing the future of the game get tickets ahead of people watching on TV.

Yeah but you are saying that like they would never get tickets... like many people watching on TV... Surely there would be no harm in them missing the odd game in favour of some of the "Armchair fans".

daveirl

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Trojan

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm pretty p!ssed off with my club right now - been a playing (and paying) member for 4 years now. I got a letter last week with a cheque refunding my tickets application, "sorry but due to unprecedented demand you get no tickets".

(I'll make a point of it when the club come looking for me to buy 3 or 400 quid worth of raffle tickets.)

Zzippy

çrash_000 wrote: »

I did feel quite good today actually - ended up with two spare tickets, and refuse to sell to touts. was walking up the road when my girlfriend heard a couple talking to touts looking for two tickets together. said to your man that I had two together if he wanted to buy them, and they'd cost me 30 a piece, at which point he tentatively offered me 70, and was amazed when i said 60 was grand, i didnt want anymore

Nicest part was when he ran after me and gave me the extra tenner and insisted I have a pint. Made me feel good, even if the game didnt really. :P

Fair play. I've often ended up with spare tickets for All-Ireland hurling finals and love to stiff the touts, offering them to genuine fans for face value just as they're about to be scalped by a tout. The look of delight on their faces, and the pissed-off tout, makes it all worthwhile
Touts are a canker on the face of all sport, not just rugby. Look at the prices being charged for Superbowl tickets this week - $5,000 :eek:

jackbhoy

toomevara wrote: »

And on an aside, don't knock "Armchair fans" watching rugby on Sky. Those, like me, who pay a premium to Sky/Setanta to watch rugby contribute directly to the unprecedented flood of filthy lucre currently flowing into the coffers of the game. Its just as valid a contribution in its own way as buying a season ticket...

Eh, no! When I pay €200 for season ticket, €200 goes to leinster rugby,if you pay the equivalent amount to a UK plc (i.e sky) how much do you think they get? By your logic you are equally supporting of NFL/Soccer/Ice Hockey/NBA or any other sports they show.

Of course everyone that wants tickets cannot get them so a large body of people will disagree with the distribution scheme, I missed out on the French game last year despite being a club member, Leinster STH and member of IRSC. If you are going to try to distribute tickets where demand outweighs supply at least 2:1 then imo the only way to ensure real supporters get them is to start at clubs/provincial and IRSC level in that order. To release them on general sale means they have zero control on who gets them, the current scheme is the only fair way to do it. I'll always stand by that even when I miss out.

Sangre

Sandwich wrote: »

Touting is a natural economic response to attempts by ticket sellers (IRFU, FAI etc) to enforce an artificial market that tries to buck the normal market laws of supply and demand. They try to control the market in order to sell tickets below their open market value. If tickets were priced correctly so that supply equaled demand, then there would be no touting. Touts serve a useful function to everyone in the market at present by redressing this strain, enabling some of the price/demand disparity to be corrected. If tickets were priced correctly, and distributed in a more open market, the situation would improved. There would be no middle-man cut to the touts as their fee for partially rebalancing the market, more money would end up in the coffers of the sports organisations, and more tickets would end up in the hands of those who are genuinely prepared to pay the true cost of being at a game.

Dont hide the symptom, cure the problem.

What?

Let the richest 80,000 rugby fans in Ireland go to every game? Sounds fair.

athtrasna

çrash_000 wrote: »

I did feel quite good today actually - ended up with two spare tickets, and refuse to sell to touts. was walking up the road when my girlfriend heard a couple talking to touts looking for two tickets together. said to your man that I had two together if he wanted to buy them, and they'd cost me 30 a piece, at which point he tentatively offered me 70, and was amazed when i said 60 was grand, i didnt want anymore

Nicest part was when he ran after me and gave me the extra tenner and insisted I have a pint. Made me feel good, even if the game didnt really. :P

I had the opposite situation happen when I pre-arranged to pass on tickets at face value and was told, oh at least let me buy you a couple of drinks, i've been looking for tickets for ages. Went out of my way to meet the girl who handed over the exact cash and hopped in a taxi with barely a thank you.

Not that I was looking to make money out of it or even for free drink but don't say it if you don't mean it.

ven0m

JWAD wrote: »

Well then when you come up with a decent plan on how to professionally run the sport based on a club only system and keep it viable, do pop by again. Or maybe you'd prefer the players to return to the 'amateur' days?

Don't be such a smart ass ................. I eventually ended up being able to go to the game on Saturday, & the sheer volume of empty CORPORATE seats was a disgrace. If these companies know they are not attending, hand the tickets back to the IRFU & have them distrubute them through a lottery if needs be, or sold as standard tickets........

Next time keep the responses on topic, or keep your smart comments to yourself ............



:::: ven0mous ::::

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

suppafly

I'm really glad that they have booted this person out of the club. Buying tickets to sell them on for a profit is the lowest of low. I remember last yr for the Ireland v England match , i had a look on ebay just to see what the prices where like and one person inparticular had me really disgusted. The value of his 1 ticket was at €500 and the reserve price hadn't even been met yet!! Again very glad they took action against the guy who tried to sell on the tickets for a profit. Well done leinster supporters club

toomevara

jackbhoy wrote: »

Eh, no! When I pay €200 for season ticket, €200 goes to leinster rugby,if you pay the equivalent amount to a UK plc (i.e sky) how much do you think they get? By your logic you are equally supporting of NFL/Soccer/Ice Hockey/NBA or any other sports they show.

Well self evidently, I meant in general terms of course, with respect to rugby and its massively increased public profile of late. A rising tide lifts all boats as they say. Obviously it's difficult to ascertain precisely the economic benefit to a particular club, but let's takes sky's Heineken cup coverage for example.

It's hugely successful for them as an organisation which in turn leads to greater investment by both them and corporates looking to cash in on the games popularity..win-win all round...lucrative sponsorship deals for clubs, higher profiles for players and the game of rugby....just look at the RTE viewing figures for last weeks dire Ireland match, highest ever, not that a lot of them will stick around for long if current woes continue...

Now I realise we've all got our view on sky and the corporatisation of sport but its the way of the world, and sky's money, which comes from fans subscriptions has changed the face of club rugby in this part of the world, whatever way you look at it....

jackbhoy

toomevara wrote: »

Well self evidently, I meant in general terms of course, with respect to rugby and its massively increased public profile of late. A rising tide lifts all boats as they say. Obviously it's difficult to ascertain precisely the economic benefit to a particular club, but let's takes sky's Heineken cup coverage for example.

It's hugely successful for them as an organisation which in turn leads to greater investment by both them and corporates looking to cash in on the games popularity..win-win all round...lucrative sponsorship deals for clubs, higher profiles for players and the game of rugby....just look at the RTE viewing figures for last weeks dire Ireland match, highest ever, not that a lot of them will stick around for long if current woes continue...

Now I realise we've all got our view on sky and the corporatisation of sport but its the way of the world, and sky's money, which comes from fans subscriptions has changed the face of club rugby in this part of the world, whatever way you look at it....

To be honest I think you are vastly overestimating Sky's, and consequently your, financial contribution to provinces. If you go to one game a year you would contribute more to Leinsters coffers than 5 years of your sky subscription. Think how much Leinster get from Sky per HC run, divide that by their, what 7/8 figure subscriber base and then divide that among all sports they show, it all amounts to cents I'd imagine. The fact that you may subscribe in order to watch HC games doesn't mean you contribute any more than someone who subscribes to watch Cricket/NFL etc...

Blisterman

Yeah. Sky barely mention the Heineken Cup, in any of their advertising. Premiership soccer matches, seem to be what attract the most subscriptions, so I'd say it's fair to say that they pour most their money into that.

It seems most other sports are just being used to fill timeslots.

gosplan

"The supporter has been given an official warning and has been banned from ever purchasing international tickets again from Leinster Rugby."

Sounds stupid but what's the official warning then?

As regards the ticket allocations. I'd love ireland tickets all the time but there's a lot of people that derserve them far more than I do for their support of rugby over the years.

It does irk me that anyone invilved in high-society so to speak seems to come across tickets easily enough but they probably pay over the odds for them.

jackbhoy

gosplan wrote: »

As regards the ticket allocations. I'd love ireland tickets all the time but there's a lot of people that derserve them far more than I do for their support of rugby over the years.

It does irk me that anyone invilved in high-society so to speak seems to come across tickets easily enough but they probably pay over the odds for them.

At last, someone with the cop-on to know they because they want tickets doesn't mean they have divine right to get them. Mates/work colleagues have my head wrecked asking me for tickets, yet most of them have never been to an international, club or provincial game, just caught up in the bandwagonism.

Regarding corporate tickets, I know a lot of tossers who have no interest in the game get tickets like this but I also know a lot of people who are life long supporters of the game who go corporate too, they are not all of former variety. My Senior Manager and Exec go premium/corporate for all games but they have played/coached/supported the game since childhood and were going to LR when all we could compete for was the wooden spoon.

toomevara

jackbhoy wrote: »

To be honest I think you are vastly overestimating Sky's, and consequently your, financial contribution to provinces.

Oh lord,clearly I'm once more vastly over estimating my significance...'tis indeed the story of my life....

jackbhoy

toomevara wrote: »

Oh lord,clearly I'm once more vastly over estimating my significance...'tis indeed the story of my life....

At least you are admitting it, thats the first step

Chucky the tree

jackbhoy wrote: »

To be honest I think you are vastly overestimating Sky's, and consequently your, financial contribution to provinces. If you go to one game a year you would contribute more to Leinsters coffers than 5 years of your sky subscription. Think how much Leinster get from Sky per HC run, divide that by their, what 7/8 figure subscriber base and then divide that among all sports they show, it all amounts to cents I'd imagine. The fact that you may subscribe in order to watch HC games doesn't mean you contribute any more than someone who subscribes to watch Cricket/NFL etc...

how much would leinster get from heineken etc though? Anyone actually have a price breakdown on the income leinster take in a year.

AckwelFoley

One of my favourite things to do is when going to an event, let it be a concert or game, and if i ever have a spare ticket or two (sometimes i get them free thru work) i stand beside the loudest tout and yell "anyone want a free ticket?"

Drives them MAD!

jackbhoy

Chucky the tree wrote: »

how much would leinster get from heineken etc though? Anyone actually have a price breakdown on the income leinster take in a year.

I'd imagine its tied to how far you progress in competition. Up to last season Sky were paying c. STG£8m per annum for all HC games. Heard it had increased significantly so might be closer to £12m now, if you assume ERC give it all to teams (which I'm sure they don't btw) and divide that between 24 teams the median received would be around £500,000. Given that's an optimistic estimate Leinster et al get fook all compared to Premier league soccer teams. Bottom place in that probably gets many multiples of that figure.