Irish shooter Digest ?

bullets

Evening,

By any chance is there anyone online tonight that can post a copy
of the Airsoft Article that has appeared on the Latest Issue of the Irish
Shooters Digest.

As I collect Airsoft Kit as well as shoot I have an interest in both sports.
Unfortunately I have not seen the Digest in my local Easons since Nov 07
and have missed out on the Christmas, Jan and now the Feb issues.


~B

jaycee

Copyright ?

bullets

People post Newspaper articles on boards.ie all the time
nobody kicks up over them. Its been done here before without
issue.

Should be no difference between a newspaper article and and
Irish shooters digest article. I have no problems buying the magazine
Its just has not been available in any newsagents where i live since last
Nov. If I could have bought it I wouldn't be asking.

If isomeone was to post the words of the article, or a review
of the article or a summary of the article I would be more than happy
too if thats not in breach of copyright issues?

~B

jaycee

If isomeone was to post the words of the article,

Then it would be in breach of copyright law.

When you take someone elses ideas or content and reproduce them it's referred to as intellectual property theft , and it's a crime.
Asking someone to commit a crime on your behalf , is a crime too .

I am trying to keep you out of trouble by it pointing out to you , so please take it in the spirit in which it is intended .

Further reading ...

http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2006/04/10/what-do-you-do-when-someone-steals-your-content/

IRLConor

As I understand it:

Strictly speaking you "breach" or "infringe" copyright, you can't steal it without somehow taking possession of the rights inherent in copyright from their rightful owner. Hence the use of the words "theft" or "stealing" are usually nonsensical with respect to copyright. People like to use them to make the offence of copyright infringement sound more like theft of real, tangible property.

That said, copyright infringement is against the law. It's best to avoid doing it even if everyone else seems to be. The Copyright and Related Acts 2000 is surprisingly readable (as laws go :rolleyes:) if you want to see what you can and can't do with copyright.


Now, back to the topic at hand. You're probably best asking someone who has a copy to lend it to you. Is there anyone reading this forum who has a copy and would be willing to do that?

packas

Anyone else of the opinion that I have that showing Airsoft in the Shooters Digest is not appropriate. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't airsfot all about dressing up in military garb with airsoft replica's of military hardware, employing military enagement & evasion tactics to try and shoot other people. Now I can understand why shooters would have an interest in airsoft but I think articles like that should remain in airsoft magazines. Possibly it was just one big advertisement for airsfot shooting and specifically targeted at the shooting community.

Sparks

Anyone else of the opinion that I have that showing Airsoft in the Shooters Digest is not appropriate.

Lots of people, including most of the airsoft people, who want their sport associated with real guns as little as most target shooters want their sport associated with airsoft!

Gerri

packas wrote: »

Anyone else of the opinion that I have that showing Airsoft in the Shooters Digest is not appropriate. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't airsfot all about dressing up in military garb with airsoft replica's of military hardware, employing military enagement & evasion tactics to try and shoot other people. Now I can understand why shooters would have an interest in airsoft but I think articles like that should remain in airsoft magazines. Possibly it was just one big advertisement for airsfot shooting and specifically targeted at the shooting community.

So they use the same type clothing and similar tactics to hunters and deerstalkers but nothing dies if they are succesful whereas the hunter/deerstalker hopes to kill at the end of his "evasion and engagement tactics", i.e. evading being detected by his quarry and engaging it with the objective of killing it. Seems like good practice technique for hunters, perhaps.:D

sidneyreilly

A lot of shooters have airsoft stuf, I think the article serves to inform them what the kit is actually intended for.

packas

Gerri wrote: »

So they use the same type clothing and similar tactics to hunters and deerstalkers but nothing dies if they are succesful whereas the hunter/deerstalker hopes to kill at the end of his "evasion and engagement tactics", i.e. evading being detected by his quarry and engaging it with the objective of killing it. Seems like good practice technique for hunters, perhaps.:D

I'm an active target shooter & have been actively deer stalking for about 7-8 years & I'd say I've become a better deer stalker by understanding the quarry. So I think the arguement that airspft can help your deer staking skills could be argued a bit (not going to argue that though as I've not yet had a go at airsoft). Remember that deer mostly sense by smell & movement. I only wished to point out that Airsoft in my view is playing soldiers without the fear & pain of live combat. So my question as to whether or not it's appropriate for this to be in a magazines that promotes aspects of sport shooting and associated sports i.e dog handling is still a valid one I think.

Pat.

Repeating Henry

Dog and Goose best mag ever, now with added easy soft.

What's a newby to think. Gone are the days when you could digest
and have a good read, it was a good mag that covered all aspects of
the sport equally. Is it that old man time that has taken it's toll or has the
well run dry. A great pity. Thats it had enough not waiting around for the
horse to appear on the front cover next issue!

bullets

Very Little of the Shooters Digest Interests me, I buy it every month
that I can mostly for putting names to faces and the ads.
I have Zero interest in Hunting since I am only a paper puncher.
I for one find it a refreshing change if and when there are non-hunting related articles
on it. I think it should have more of a balance that covers a wider
aspect or all aspects of shooting sports.

I think its acceptable for just one issue of the digest to veer away
a little bit and maybe touch on a distant cousin so to speak of shooting.
Considering there is so much confusion as to what airsoft is people
cant tell the difference between an airgun,BB gun, pellet gun, and airsoft gun.

Lots of shooters seem to Have airsoft guns I wonder just why that is.
Some of the Pistol owners buy Airsoft versions of their own guns.
I have seen plastic BB's a few times at the range I shoot at.
One of the Gun dealers in Ireland also sells Airsoft products.
All hints that Irish shooters may have a slight interest in either airsoft as a sport
or simply buying or collecting the kit!!!



~B

It wasn't me!

Wouldn't be familiar with the difference between airsoft guns and BB guns myself, what is it?

packas

bullets wrote: »

Very Little of the Shooters Digest Interests me, I buy it every month
that I can mostly for putting names to faces and the ads.
I have Zero interest in Hunting since I am only a paper puncher.
I for one find it a refreshing change if and when there are non-hunting related articles
on it. I think it should have more of a balance that covers a wider
aspect or all aspects of shooting sports.

I think its acceptable for just one issue of the digest to veer away
a little bit and maybe touch on a distant cousin so to speak of shooting.
Considering there is so much confusion as to what airsoft is people
cant tell the difference between an airgun,BB gun, pellet gun, and airsoft gun.

Lots of shooters seem to Have airsoft guns I wonder just why that is.
Some of the Pistol owners buy Airsoft versions of their own guns.
I have seen plastic BB's a few times at the range I shoot at.
One of the Gun dealers in Ireland also sells Airsoft products.
All hints that Irish shooters may have a slight interest in either airsoft as a sport
or simply buying or collecting the kit!!!



~B

Maybe if airsoft grows it will have a magazine of its own as it does in other countries. It is seen by many as a different sport to shooting & that's reflected on boards.ie. It has it's own forum in the sports section.

Sparks

it already has about five magazines on the shelves in Easons...

packas

Sparks wrote: »

it already has about five magazines on the shelves in Easons...

Wow. Are any Irish produced though?

N.O.I.P.

Not yet but the IAA should be publishing the first issue of its E-Zine shortly. Eventually we hope to publish it for real with paper and everything

Personally I think there may have been a more suitable place for the article but even so it was a great article and I was thrilled to see airsoft finally get some good press. It's also increased the ISD circulation figures by at least 1, I had a good read of it on the bus into work this morning.

bullets

Sparks wrote: »

it already has about five magazines on the shelves in Easons...

I only know of 1 magazine
on sale in any of the easons I have visited in Cork/Dublin/Limerick
specifically looking for magazines on it.

~B

Repeating Henry

Packas, on a more serious note after going over your first post, is the fact
the assailant in the shooting that took place recently where
no matter how many shots got fired, the man in the car could
not be hit fatally, if this shooter had practiced in simulated combat
shooting at human figures with the very same imitation firearm
that was used on the day the chances of this being fatal could
possibly have been improved considerably. Practicing in such a
tactical way combined with adrenaline rush, heart beat and
breathing increases gets as close to the real live situation as
near possible. Does this sport have the type of vetting you
have when you apply for a firearms licence, could the shooter
now go and get some practice in without being checked?

This is not the Alimo or the Joe Duffy debate all over again but
the general public and more specifically the DOJ / Minster must
get the creeps with this type of PR from a firearms shooting mag
the combination is just wrong, so I would have to agree with Packas.

dresden8

Ah it's only a bit of fun.

les45

I would be curious as to what is the ISSF position on its members taking part in any "Airsoft Type Events " ?

John

IRLConor

les45 wrote: »

I would be curious as to what is the ISSF position on its members taking part in any "Airsoft Type Events " ?

They probably wouldn't have that much of a problem with it.

On the other hand, if the NTSA started running airsoft events it might be a different story.

DeVore

We have an Airsoft forum here on Boards.

We don't encourage users to post articles here for copyright reasons. We do ask that if you post an article from, say, breakingnews.ie that you link to the article too to give them a bit of advertising on the back of it. Most sites seem very happy with this situation so long as we dont abuse it.

Perhaps this magazine would be interested in the OP subscribing, most magazines are!

DeV.

Sparks

IRLConor wrote: »

They probably wouldn't have that much of a problem with it.
On the other hand, if the NTSA started running airsoft events it might be a different story.

ISSF hasn't said anything I've heard of regarding airsoft. If this stems from what I think it stems from, what Conor said above is the situation with IPSC/IDPA/PPC events as well. NTSA members shooting IPSA events as IPSA members - sure, no problem. NTSA running an IPSA event or being tied to the IPSA - big, you-can't-send-teams-to-the-olympics-anymore problems.
I suspect, from the nature of the IPSC-ISSF conflict, that the same would happen if airsoft tried to enter the Olympics as an event.

However, while it sounds all nasty and horrible, in real life it's only a headache for administrators - as far as shooters are concerned, it's a non-event. Several NTSA members already shoot practical events "in their spare time" ( ), and at least one or two are pretty decent at it already.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

...Several NTSA members already shoot practical events "in their spare time" ( ), and at least one or two are pretty decent at it already.

And vice versa.

chem

Hi all, Didn`t see shooting digest yet but lads look at us already! Oh this airsoft thing should not be in my publication What, What old boy, snobbery.
I dont play airsoft,paintball or do re-enactment, but I can understand that people are different then me and have different interests. Now and then my interests will cross over with someone else`s that id only ever meet by us having the same interest. I look at it as having made me afew friend over the years. Will people stop and see that what we do to distance ourselves from other "GUN" (shaped) sports, is doing to them what the general "non shooting" public do to us.

We should take a very close look at what is happening in the UK. Its a slow death to all and any shooting sport over there. De-acts are becoming harder to get for re-enactors, Airsoft you have to be a registered club member to own one, replica or blankfire again have to prove your a member of a re-enactment club.

Those not interested in any of these might say "well its all well and good as long as my sport is not involved or affected". Think again my friends. Its a slow slope but sooner or later new laws are passed that WILL affect your sport, and not for the better.

You remember the poem:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.


Pastor Martin Niemöller

This was a poem about nazi germany. Im not saying we live in times like this, but all our shooting spots, what ever they are, are under the spot lights from government laws. They can be picked off one at a time unless we look out for the other mans sport or hobby. As it is now happening in the UK. Our hobby is not a right its a privilege. It can be nibbled away from us before we even had time to enjoy it again. All it will take is one nut with a licenced firearm and its gone again.

On a lighter note:D the Gun mart covers all shooting related sports and hobbies and seems to do it well.

Oh and hope its not a copyright thing posting this poem! if it is I will remove it.

Sparks

Erm, chem, airsoft doesn't want to be associated with us. For very good reasons. It's not snobbery, it's pragmatism and practicality.

chem

Sparks wrote: »

Erm, chem, airsoft doesn't want to be associated with us. For very good reasons. It's not snobbery, it's pragmatism and practicality.

I know sparks but it will be there loss and no point in saying we dont want them as they dont want us logic. You know what the general public think of anything gun shaped. It would be better for all to stand together, rather then be picked off one at a time as you know the voting public only see a gun, plastic, metal or laminate.

rrpc

Hardly the point Chem. If they don't want to be associated with firearms, then what good does our imposing ourselves on them without their say so help?

And what would be the point?

chem

rrpc wrote: »

Hardly the point Chem. If they don't want to be associated with firearms, then what good does our imposing ourselves on them without their say so help?

And what would be the point?

OK rrpc I understand your point. But try think outside the box. If airsoft or replica weapoms come under licence will you say anything? Im not saying we should IMPOSE ourselves on anyone, just not be so "its not anything to do with us" stance. Just if we could come to gether as one "shooting intrest body" it will be a lot larger group to deal with voting wise then eg: pistol shooters as their own group, target shooters or hunting.

divide and conquer as they say. I would march against any for any loss of any shooting, be it air soft or air rifle, even if i dont follow it as a sport. Because I know my sport might be next

Sparks

Chem, the airsoft people don't want to be connected with real firearms. This has been discussed a lot over on the airsoft forum, right from its inception.

As to the article, it was okay. Except for the mention of modifying airsoft toys to increase their power... but then again the author doesn't live in the ROI anymore so the lack of focus on what's legal here could be excused I suppose. And a more cynical person might look at the extent of coverage of one shop in the article and note the full-page advert two pages after the article and ponder things like objectivity and such

DeVore

I would imagine that the general public (at least the clear thinking general public) doesn't have as much of a problem with the "gun shaped" things as they do with the "bullet shaped" things...

There's not a lot of public objection to paintball for example...

DeV.

J.R.

BULLITS,

Here in Dublin the shooting shops carry copies of the magazine each month - have you tried the local shooting shops?

If you're interested in the magazine they operate a subscription system. I find it great - no rushing to newsagents or forgetting....as the weeks seem to fly by these days.

It's €45, incl. p.&p. for 11 months to R.O.I. and it arrives by post on the last day of the month.

Cal Ward

Thank you for your comments both positive and negative.

Regarding appropriateness; I researched and wrote the article because it seemed like an enjoyable project, which it was, and the Airsoft people, when contacted, were enthusiastic. We had a wonderful day in Dublin. I agree Airsoft publications are the best forum for Airsoft. The feedback from readers indicates a considerable degree of interest among shooters (especially in the hardware) and I will therefore return to this topic occasionally. It is my personal experience that shooters tend to be interested in disciplines they are not directly involved in and shooting magazines cater for that interest.

Could someone let me know what exactly the factual errors were? I'm not VASTLY informed on this topic.

Cal Ward

bullets

Cal Ward wrote: »

Thank you for your comments both positive and negative.


Could someone let me know what exactly the factual errors were? I'm not VASTLY informed on this topic.

Cal Ward

Evening. There is a thread about the article over on the airsoft board at the moment.

I just managed to read the article earlier today. I must say as a Shooter and
someone interested in Airsoft I found it a refreshing change to see the sport
portraid in the media in a positive manner. The lads over on the airsoft board
may be able to help you out with regards to any factual errors if there were any. (I think the board members here may get a little bit peeved if people keep talking about airsoft on the shooting boards... I couldnt care a less but I'm sure I am in the minority that would think that way)

~B

dresden8

I'm into guns. Real guns and fake guns. They are in fact cool and interesting. I know we're supposed to say that we are only interested in competing in the olympics and such like and they are merely a tool to help us control our breathing and other such nonsense.

As a child I "played at guns". Now I play with real guns. That is not bad or incorrect.

Now grow up and stop thinking you're better than anybody else! And that goes for the airsoft guys too!

DeVore

To be fair, just because a lot of shooters have an interest in something doesn't make it on topic here. Lots of shooters are parents, but there is a Parenting forum for that and threads about spanking your kids would be off-topic here. Unless you intend to spank them with a gun and want to know which would would fit the job best.

We have a forum for Airsoft for the same reason. Threads would be on topic here only where Airsoft and hunting/target shooting intersected.

Btw, I'm not wagging a finger here, I'm just explaining how I think things should be categorised.

DeV.

fishdog

When it comes to Irish shooting magazines unfortunately there is only one. Every time I read it I seem to have the same experience. For me it always seems to go like this:

1) Positive review of low budget equipment on test.
2) Generally a large advertisement for the same equipment somewhere in the magazine.
3) Many of the photographs from the article taken directly from advertisement.

I had to laugh, this month they even have a diagram that seems to be coloured in by crayon!

packas

DeVore wrote: »

To be fair, just because a lot of shooters have an interest in something doesn't make it on topic here. Lots of shooters are parents, but there is a Parenting forum for that and threads about spanking your kids would be off-topic here. Unless you intend to spank them with a gun and want to know which would would fit the job best.

We have a forum for Airsoft for the same reason. Threads would be on topic here only where Airsoft and hunting/target shooting intersected.

Btw, I'm not wagging a finger here, I'm just explaining how I think things should be categorised.

DeV.

I fully agree. While I have no problem wit airsoft I I would have an issue with it being a regular feature in a shooting magazine for all the reasons discussed here plus as Sparks has said in a post "the airsoft people don't want to be connected with real firearms." I think it it neither sport any good to like them.

regards,
Pat.

Sparks

Cal Ward wrote: »

Could someone let me know what exactly the factual errors were?

The airsoft people can no doubt give technical details on any airsoft errors. One of those which jumped out at me however, is that air rifles do not start at 12 foot pounds of muzzle energy; 12 is the legal limit for air rifles which are not classed as firearms in the UK, and it's one of the highest such limits in the EU. Germany, for example, sets it at the lower level of 7 joules; but all air rifles legally sold in those countries as non-firearms come in under those limits. Since that's the very mechanism by which airsoft is now legal in the ROI, it seemed a rather obvious error.

There's also the picture of the pistol being chronographed, with the captions saying it was for accuracy; in fact it's for legality, as if (with a standard projectile) the velocity exceeds a set limit, the pistol would be defined as a firearm. That's also why the notes regarding increasing the power of airsoft toys are not really in airsoft's best interest, but then, that doesn't exactly follow the strict definition of "factual error"...

Sparks

dresden8 wrote: »

I'm into guns. Real guns and fake guns. They are in fact cool and interesting. I know we're supposed to say that we are only interested in competing in the olympics and such like and they are merely a tool to help us control our breathing and other such nonsense.

Oh yay. Portrayed as elitist snobs again, by folks who don't quite get that saying we're elitist snobs is as divisive as if we actually were elitist snobs instead of just being interested in something that they're not interested in.

Look. Airsoft's young in the ROI and frankly, under threat because of bad PR imagery and early muppetry by one or two people who were about as interested in the sport as a joyrider is interested in the finer points of F1 racing. As a result, any association that could cause confusion in the eyes of the Gardai or Joe Public as to whether they were using real firearms or not, would be very harmful to them. So they didn't apply to join the SSAI/NRPAI/NTSA/NASRPC/NRAI/<insert appropriate alphabet soup here>. And they wanted their own forum. And they formed their own NGB. There's no animosity between "us" and "them" (and several of "us" are "them" and vice versa). That's it, that's all there is to it.

jaycee

Airsoft and paintball stuff ...In the airsoft and paintball forum ?

sounds like common sense to me !

bunny shooter

jaycee wrote: »

Airsoft and paintball stuff ...In the airsoft and paintball forum ?

sounds like common sense to me !

Segretation, that's right !!

packas

Probably time to put this thread to rest in the shooting forum

Bananaman

I think the topic was lost somewhere along the way.

Agreed the Airsoft and Paintball forum is the place for discussing things Airsoft and Paintball - I follow it with interest.

However, the original question from Pat has merit here - why was the "Shooting" Digest covering Airsoft.

I think you will find one particular post in this thread answers that question succinctly.

Wouldn't be familiar with the difference between airsoft guns and BB guns myself, what is it?

I, for one, am glad it has not been covered for the specific interst of the shooting community. Amny of the subscribers of the digest have heard of airsoft and many of them have heard bad things - kids acting the maggot, etc.

I Think that the digest informing the greater shooting community exactly what is involved, the conditions under which it happens, the types of Airsoft equipment around, who has it, etc only helps to inform people.

Now we all know, whether or not we have an interest is irrelevant.

If the digest covered a hunt on horseback would we be up in arms (no pun intended) - I doubt it - everyone to their own, If they cover ferreting would be care, doubtful. How about Falconry - it think not. Not one of them involve a firearm - neither does Airsoft - nuf said.

B'Man

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

If the digest covered ... Falconry

They did.
To be honest, all the field sports stuff does is make me buy Target Sports instead. There's not much ISSF stuff in TS but there's lots of other stuff like black powder, fullbore target shooting, that sort of thing; and if I want field sports, there are other Irish Field Sports magazines out there.
Personally, if I buy the Irish Shooters Digest, I don't expect to find I've paid for a knock-off of Field Sports or whatever. I expect to find stuff of interest to Shooters. Gundogs is about as far afield as I'd expect them to roam.
That lack of focus is the main reason I stopped writing for the Digest.

Repeating Henry

Final comments. I don't think its about snobbery or who or what gets reviewed in the Digest. Because the Digest mostly advertises and deals with firearms of various kinds, mixing Airsoft especially assault styled replica weapons might confuse the casul browser as to what exactly are the types of firearms available to license here in the ROI. Result, negative PR more anti shooting sports feeding.

Question to the N.G.B

Some of your members mentioned they would like to try night exercises using night vision, if they do this informally, do you advise them to inform the local Garda as to where this activity will take place.
The Sunday Tribune yesterday, front page on a certain splinter group preparing to resume activities in the North.
Fellujah Hollywood some place up North / Ireland? Does it matter.

What if the Ranger wing gets called out, one of your members fails to stop has a real looking AK in his hand. So while Airsoft looks to be good fun it does need to be mindful that the type of tactical training you do, replicates the real thing. In the UK one reason for proposed regulation is for the obvious risk that Airsoft ranges could be used by home grown Brittish & Foreign Fanatics who have prooved to be very resourceful and adaptable, they might think, Why go to Prague when they can train at home.

I hope Airsoft has tight regulations in place. It took a very long time to get the type of firearms back that are now available here to enjoy, it would also take very little to turn the clock back if we all collectively become arrogant and careless.

Should Airsoft re-consider and have the NGB become affiliated to one of the above mentioned Bodies. I see the Banned one got mentioned so don't use ......this Governing body in response to this posting, seek advise first.

Repeating Henry

5.56mm Steyr Aug says to BB Steyr Aug! Hands up.

BB Aug says no! and points his BB Aug at 5.56mm Steyr Aug.

BB say's got you first sucker, 5.56mm reports with a Bang.

Witcher

Repeating Henry wrote: »

What if the Ranger wing gets called out, one of your members fails to stop has a real looking AK in his hand.

good god naivety at its hightest, the rangers have bigger things to deal with and would not be

involved in such an event it would be the ERU actually. do you think they are going to use army

special forces to deal with that situation? :rolleyes:


:cool::cool::cool:

Witcher

Repeating Henry wrote: »

5.56mm Steyr Aug says to BB Steyr Aug! Hands up.

BB Aug says no! and points his BB Aug at 5.56mm Steyr Aug.

BB say's got you first sucker, 5.56mm reports with a Bang.

who in their right mind would point an airsoft device at an armed garda?

think about it

:cool::cool::cool:

maglite

blay1 wrote: »

who in their right mind would point an airsoft device at an armed garda?

think about it

:cool::cool::cool:

is that a rhetorical question?

think about it again