Do fixies cause knee damage?

munkee

Hi

I've been considering getting a fixie for a while now, went to look at a few last summer but decided to hold off for a bit and squeeze the last few miles out of my mtb with slicks.

Anyway, the rear cogs on it are pretty worn and the chain is starting to slip, so instead of repairing it I've been looking again at the possiblity of going fixed gear. To see if it would suit me, I've been cycling with my current bike in top gear and never coasting. I've actually been cycling with the bike in top gear for a few months. I've noticed some pain in my knees that I didn't have before, but put it down to just getting used to the change. But as I'd heard rumours that riding a fixie can be hard on the knees, I decided to do some googling and found the following:

http://yamabushi.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/why-fixies-are-bad-for-your-knees/

The bit that jumped out at me was:

“…patellofemoral syndrome, is the most common cycling injury,"

“…Training factors linked with patellofemoral pain include hill training, cycling with high gears at a low cadence, and a sudden increase in training volume.”

It kind of makes sense that when starting off from a standing start on a fixie, there is greater pressure on the knee than with a geared bike.

I'm interested to hear people's opinions and preferably experience of this. Have you experienced knee pain since going fixie?

I still want one, I like their simplicity and focus, maybe even their coolness but I don't want to damage my knees.

wahlrab

depends on your gear ratio and where you're riding, here's another article on knees and fixies

niceonetom

the people who screw their knees up on a fixie do so because they have the wrong ratio.

i don't know what 'top gear' is on your mtb but i'd guess it's bigger than you'll get on a stock fixie (usually 42x16 i think, but it depends on manufacturer, plus it'll be lighter and have less rolling resistance than your mtb). if you do a lot of stop-start cycling then you can hurt your knees by trying to take off too hard (out of the saddle mashing, rowing the bike from side to side, macho macho bullshít :rolleyes:), but if you get up to speed more gradually you'll be absolutely fine. same applys for slowing down. use a brake, it doesn't make you a loser.

you can screw your knees up on any bike if it doesn't fit and you use the wrong ratios, it really doesn't matter whether it's fixed or not.

on the whole cycling is a lot easier on the knees than running etc.

wahlrab, good link, thanks.

munkee

I guess gear ratio is a factor alright. I tend to cycle fairly quickly so would favour a ratio that would give me a reasonable top speed without spinning up too much.

Most of my route is stop/start, through town, which seems to be more stressful on the knees. I wouldn't say I'm macho at all, but I do like to get up to speed as quickly as I can, so I'd do a certain amount of mashing.

I take the point that a mtb would have a lot more rolling resistance, my one is a bit of a tank, although slicks have made a huge difference. The ratio of the top gear on my bike is, at a guess based on how fast their legs are moving, not a million miles off most of the fixed gears I see.

niceonetom

munkee wrote: »

I guess gear ratio is a factor alright. I tend to cycle fairly quickly so would favour a ratio that would give me a reasonable top speed without spinning up too much.

Most of my route is stop/start, through town, which seems to be more stressful on the knees. I wouldn't say I'm macho at all, but I do like to get up to speed as quickly as I can, so I'd do a certain amount of mashing.

I take the point that a mtb would have a lot more rolling resistance, my one is a bit of a tank, although slicks have made a huge difference. The ratio of the top gear on my bike is, at a guess based on how fast their legs are moving, not a million miles off most of the fixed gears I see.

it's very possible to cross town without much stop-start stuff if you read the lights well, i.e slow down well before a red so it will have gone green by the time you get there. couriers are the masters at this (but they cheat relentlessly by breaking the lights anyway). tearing off the line and racing to the next red might be fun (for some) but it won't get you home any quicker. as regards ratios this is a handy tool - you really can't tell by comparing your leg speed to other cyclists and a difference of one tooth at the back makes a big difference in gain. count the teeth on the gear your using on your cassette and you'll know where you stand (once you've taken crank-length, wheel size, tire size and chainring size into account that is :rolleyes:). i have yet to meet anyone who has spent any decent amount of time on a fixie and failed to see the appeal, so i'd say go for it. but be prepared to be considered a johnny-come-lately "hipster douche-bag" by those who beat you to the punch.

TinyExplosions

niceonetom wrote: »

i have yet to meet anyone who has spent any decent amount of time on a fixie and failed to see the appeal, so i'd say go for it. but be prepared to be considered a johnny-come-lately "hipster douche-bag" by those who beat you to the punch.

I've just flipped my Paddy Wagon back round to Single Speed from Fixed.
It's mostly as I'm now training for the Wicklow 200, and my first run up to Enniskerry was, shall we say, interesting! Going up wasn't too bad, but the descents just weren't enjoyable

It'll go back to fixed when I get a bike with gears however!

niceonetom

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I've just flipped my Paddy Wagon back round to Single Speed from Fixed.
It's mostly as I'm now training for the Wicklow 200, and my first run up to Enniskerry was, shall we say, interesting! Going up wasn't too bad, but the descents just weren't enjoyable

i stand corrected.

TinyExplosions wrote: »

It'll go back to fixed when I get a bike with gears however!

or do i?

seriously though, it's horses for courses. even i would consider wicklow on a fixie a touch on the masochistic side.

TinyExplosions

niceonetom wrote: »

seriously though, it's horses for courses. even i would consider wicklow on a fixie a touch on the masochistic side.

Yeah, it would be... excessive! There's a few hills even on the way to Enniskerry that aren't much fun

Raam

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Yeah, it would be... excessive! There's a few hills even on the way to Enniskerry that aren't much fun

what roads did u take when out there?

TinyExplosions

Raam wrote: »

what roads did u take when out there?

Pretty much the Wiclow 200 route out, via Dundrum and Stepaside to Enniskerry, then up to Glencullen, down via Rathmichael to Shankill, and back to the city centre via Killiney Hill (the worst part in my mind!)

Capt'n Midnight

If you have to stay off the bike with a knee problem then stay off the bike for a while. Getting back on early is just asking for recurring problems. Or better still don't get the knee problems in the first place.

As the others have posted low gears is what you use on a fixed. It's about cadence rather than power. You will have plenty of times when you need the power , if there is a hill or headwind for instance.


42x16 is similar to 48x18 (or 53x20 in old money)
the ratio is 2.6:1 the top gear on your bike is probably 4:1 so your training is putting 1.5 times the strain on your knees, just imaging carrying half your body weight around !!

doozerie

If your riding position and pedalling technique are not correct to start with, then riding on a fixed gear is probably a good way to (more) quickly develop a problem, whatever about any extra strains that a fixed gear may or may not put on your knee. So, it is worthwhile checking your position on the bike amongst everything else, and check whether your knees are in line with your ankles when pedaling, for example - everyone is different, so the same style/position will not suit everyone but try to identify if you are using a pedaling technique which is putting extra strain on one part or other of your ankles, knees, or hips.

I recommend that you see a physio with your knee problem. As an example of one problem that can occur with cycling, you can end up with a mismatch in strength between the inner and outer thigh muscles (can arise where your knees stick out a bit while pedaling), which puts more force on one side of your knee and can lead to knee problems - a physio can diagnose an issue like this easily enough and can give exercises to correct it. It is a difficult problem to identify yourself though and will persist unless you sort out the root cause as well as its effects.

rubadub

TinyExplosions wrote: »

via Killiney Hill

Savage hills, I usually stop for a break outside bono's on the bench!

TinyExplosions

rubadub wrote: »

Savage hills, I usually stop for a break outside bono's on the bench!

I will admit to walking the last hundred yards or so... they're nasty on a fixie!