Beginner Runner - advise welcome :)

seanom78

Hi guys,
Im a complete beginner to running. I palyed soccer and GAA a good few years back but stopped about 4 yrs ago. Since then I have put on about 2 stone. Im 15 stone now (Im 5ft 11).

I have decided to take up running as a couple of guys I know are running the Cork Marathon in June and I'd love to have a crack at it. I am down to do the connemara half marathon in April.

I started running last week doing 2 mile/3mile runs.
I am following the hal hadigon:
http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/novices.html

I am finding that my calves are burning badly even in my first mile. Is this normal? I took time to ensure I bought the correct runners etc do thats not the issue i dont think. maybe this pain is normal i dont know.

anyway im going to log my last 2 runs and future logs:
5 miler last sunday: Time= 49:10 (had to stop about 4 times due to sore calves)
3 miler last night (28:10) I felt like stopping after about half a mile as the calves were acting up again but i kept going and they seemed to not get any worse. it was uncomfortable tho.

I dont exptect this to be a cake walk, anything but. But i am stretching properly and still getting calf problems. My breathing is fine during the runs.

any tips etc? is this normal?

hunnymonster

How is the soreness affected by speed? If you run slower would you be able to run continuously for longer?

seanom78

good question. tbh, i think every step is a bit sore no matter what speed im going. even when im going v slow it hurts as im taking lots of steps. i actually speeded up in the last run and it seemed to loosen up a bit. weird i know.

tunney

My two cents - people think that running is easy, people think that anyone should be able to run. Now running *is* easy, and anyone *can* run but starting to run is a different story. It hurts and it takes a while to adjust.

Be patient, don't over do it and work up slowly, it will get easier and painfree

seanom78

Thanks Tunney, once this is normal i dont mind working through it...
I know its going to be v hard for the next month or two at aleast.

tunney

Not saying your specifics are normal, just saying it hurts to start back.

Listen to your body.

seanom78

Times so far:
Sunday 27/01/08 : 5 miles: 48:20
Tuesday 29/01/08 : 3 miles: 28:20

going for a 3 miler tonight, it will be interesting to see how i get on..and how the calves feel

harrier

I had similar problems starting out a good few years ago. It was a painful learning process as tunney says.

It depends what your goals are. If you want to get through the connemara half despite the pain (and maybe even do Cork) just carry on doing what you're doing. Cut down on the drink though so you can pay for lots and lots of physio sessions. Don't fret too much though because it'll all be over in five months.

But if you want a healthier lifestyle in the long term you'll need to back off running with that level of discomfort so early in your run. Even if the pain itself is your body adapting, it's going to mess with your gait and you could end up with a referred injury (as I did). Concentrate initially on lots of walking (lots of it) and getting weight down. Short runs, so long as they are pain-free, and a non-load bearing activity (spinning, swimming, cross-trainer) would help develop cardio fitness. Run more so long as it's pain-free. Always stop when you're experiencing pain. Aim for a modest accomplishment in Connemara. As your body adapts to the new demands you'll run PB after PB after PB.

HardyEustace

When I started out I had a certain amount of discomfort. However after running a full marathon I did some serious damage.

You will know the difference between aches and pains and serious injury. With aches and pains you can trundle along and they normally come and go in the course of a run.

When I did the serious damage, the pain I felt was indescribable. I saw stars in my eyes, felt sick and quite nauseous from the pain.

You'll know that difference believe me.

Norinoco

Hey Sean, going through the exact same thing as you at the moment. Was doing fine until I took a week off running and moved, so my route has changed to include hills (this was not by choice unfortunately!)

Was killed after only 1.5 miles last night, had to walk the rest of the way home! Hoping this is completely normal at the start too!

I figure just keep at it, get back in to the 3/4 milers slowely, and try find a less demanding route for the moment!

Make sure that you are taking your rest days, they are just as important as the running days in this early stage.

How did last night go for you? Getting any better?

tunney

Doing too much, i.e. longer races such as halfs, is a bad idea and I predict a post here in a month or two describing a knee pain on the outside of the knee that comes on only when running - ITBS. (Just copped the connemarthon half bit)

ditpoker

i'm a novice at all this. but i was (am) feeling sore base of heels and calves... went to a physio just to get an overall idea of what the story is. my understanding (as limited as it is) is that anyway with a football or GAA background is likely to have significantly tighter calf/hamstring muscles... these need SERIOUS stretching... running will continue to ache until these muscles get used to it.

now harm in spending €50 or whatever to see a physio...

--amadeus--

A certain amount of discomfort is normal, you're making your body do something it doesn't want to. Do be careful of your speed though. I don't think you should be tracking time yet, just distance. Tracking time means that you look for improvement on every run, so you can push to hard which lessens the benifit of the run and increases the risk of injury. If you really need to then maybe time one run per week over the same distance and push hard on it, but leave the stopwatch at home the rest of the time. When you are running you should be easily able to hold a conversation, if you are out of breath slow down (and take walk breaks if needed).

More stretching would probably help as well but be careful not to pull something!

Stupid_Private

I second amadeus - leave the watch at home. You'll run better with out it.

seanom78

Thanks for all of the advise guys. I decided to take 4 days off running to give the legs a chance to recover.

I went for a 6 miler yesterday and I felt great for most if it. Calves were not an issue at all. I left the watch at home also.I even managed to run the full thing without stopping at all.Im v happy with that as im only running about 3 weeks.

The only down side is I dont think I will be able to stick with the Hal hadgon programme as it seems that I really need to take a couple of days off between runs. He wasnts me running tue/wed/thurs and sat or sun.
It looks like im gonna do Tues (3miles), Thurs(4miles), Sun(6-7) miles for the next few weeks. I can reassess in a few weeks again..

I will need to up the mileage in about 3 weeks as I have the Connemara half on April 6th..

--amadeus--

Firstly well done on teh 6 miler - that's almost half way to the half marathon and doing that at a run at this stage is a good sign!

Your recovery time will come down as you get fitter and your body adapts to the training loads. It's important that you do listen to your body though and if you really don't feel able to run then don't (as long as it's your body and not your head saying this!).

That said - recovery runs (slower than normal runs, usually over a short distance run the day after a hard / long run) can be good for clearing all the crud out and helping you feel better though so don't assume that just because your legs are tired you can't run. Likewise fatigue is normal - as you progress through your first marathon program you'll probably find that your legs feel tired pretty much all the time - if you are waiting 48 hours for your legs to feel "fresh" again before you run on them then you're possibly being overly cautious. Pain means don't run, general aches and knackerdness doesn't!

Lastly if you really feel that you can only run 3 days a week then have a look at this. The terminology is a bit heavy so if you find it confusing just ask but it's a good program (they do full marathon plans as well)

seanom78

Thanks Amadeus!!
I like the way you ve differntiated between tired legs and pain. Tbh, my legs feel fine today, a slight tiredness but nothing major.
I will take your advise on board, if there is pain I wont run but if its just tiredness, ill battle on..

Thanks again.

lisbon_lions

Too much too soon imo. I know that marathon programme you mention from Hal H, it assums that you have been running for at least a year and are comfortable with 6 mile runs regularly.

I think going from playing Gaa a few years back to hoping to run a marathon in just over 4 months is very optimistic. You may be able to do it, but you are greatly increasing your chances of injury.

Maybe aim for a 10k perhaps in the summer time and give yourself good time to build up for that? But to tackle a marathon you need a base of at least a year running.

MTA - DONT stretch cold before your run as that will do more harm than good to your body. Even after a run, stretch a bit (I know runners that swear by not stretching at all).

seanom78

Thanks for that. well i plan on doing the marathon but im not going to do it if i fell im not ready closer to the time.

went for a run yesterday but my claves/shins hurt after about a mile so i had to walk/run the rest of it. my legs were fine for the 6 miler on sunday but they seemed to not have recovered in time by yesterday evening. it seems like i need 3 days after the sunday (longish run) before I run again. this is getting frustrating as im not going ot be able to complete the program again this week (cant go tonight).

ditpoker

seanom, alot depends on your ambitions for the marathon. there's a world of difference between RUNNING a marathon and COMPLETING a marathon. No rule saying you have to run every step... run 10k... walk for a bit, run another 10k... etc...

NB: not sure if this is good advice having not actually run a marathon myself !:p

--amadeus--

Shin pain is a totally different thing to calf pain. Is it actual pain or an ache / discomfort?

Shin pain when running is an early indicator of shin splints, which can develop into something quite serious. Try reading this and this.

DTI is right - running a marathon and doing a marathon are very different beasts. Indeed in 1975 Bill Rodgers walked / stopped at a couple of water stations and stopped to tie his shoelaces and still won in 2:09 (when told his time he is reported to have said "But I can't run that fast!") so taking a break is nothing to be ashamed of. Lots of people walk through the water stations or up the hills but run the rest for example. It's not the same as running the whole thing but it is still an achievement.

Nor is it impossible - I went from running a mile or two once every month to a full marathon in about three months so Cork is acheivable for you, if you approach it right.

seanom78

Ya I had shin splints before but i dont think its that, the pain from shin splints is very sharp, like being stabbe dinto a particular point in your shin.The pain i had was more of a tired burning aching sort of pain. it wasnt sharp and I could have run through but I didnt.

Im going to wait until the weekend to run again , the last thing i want is shin splints now. that would be the end of the hallf marathon and the full cork marathon as it would be no training for about 6 weeks.

fingers crossed...

Thanks Amadeus

Bobby04

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I went from running a mile or two once every month to a full marathon in about three months

Hi amadeus,

would you not say that your acheivement was quite exceptional? I struggled to get up to 6 mile distance after 3 months (which sean seems to have managed after a couple of weeks), and had to suffer alot with sore shins along the way too. So was I just really crap at building up the distance? Or were you just exceptionally good, and is sean maybe trying and/or hoping to do too much too soon?

hunnymonster

no, I went from never running to marathon in 12 weeks in 2004. It's a very individual thing.

tunney

Just to clarify - going from sedentary person to running a marathon (i.e. sub 4) in 12 weeks is quite an achievement and not something to be attempted lightly. If you're sedentary and want to run a marathon please please give yourself more time!! You'll enjoy running and the marathon more and will be more likely to stick at running!

hunnymonster

What Tunney says is very true, While Amadeus and I both find running relatively easy, for every one of us there are a lot of people who will suffer if they run a marathon on little training. Be aware of what you are doing to your body but don't limit yourself either! Like I say, it's a very individual thing.

--amadeus--

I wouldn't consider myself exceptional by any stretch and - flattering as HM is being - I'm not sure that I would bracket myself in with the "running is easy" crowd.

Fitness in general and running in particular are very individual and what works for one person might wreck another. If I were to do it all over again I probably wouldn't prepare for my first marathon in the way that I did and I would pace myself differently but that's just experience. The big advantage I had is that I am fairly light (around 140lbs for around 6' tall) and seem to have a good level of "natural" fitness. I also ran cross country at school, so I had some level of background in it. Someone carrying a lot of excess weight, who is very unfit, who is bio-mechanically poor may not manage it. Others seem to just turn up and get through it almost effortlessly.

Tunney is right though - the standard advice is to be running consistently for a year before beginning to train for a marathon and move through the distances progressively. Some people though need the big challenge to motivate them and you'll never know until you try!

tunney

HunnyMonster and amadeus

What are your straight marathon PBs and what times did you do your first marathons in?

--amadeus--

Marathon PB is 3:24:58, so fairly mid-pack.

First ever was Dublin 05 which was a very average 4:23 (the lack of training did have an impact, no denying that!). Since then I have been lucky and recorded consecutive PBs with every race despite very little change to my training (4:23 / 4:00 / 3:44 / 3:37 / 3:33 / 3:24). 10k PB is 40:18.

(I'm not that comfortable talking about PBs as I consider my own speeds to be fairly pedestrian compared to some people and I know that I could probably be faster if I was more disciplined in my training. I am always aware though that all speed is relative and don't want to sound like I'm knocking people who are slower)

malcom

IM LOOKING FOR A RUNNING PARTNER OR A GROUP TO TRAIN WITH FOR THE MARATHON .IM RUNNING A GOOD FEW YEARS ON MY OWN SO VERY FIT :rolleyes:
NORTHSIDE OF DUB SWORDS MALAHIDE ISH

corkfella

Hi Amadeus,

did you follow a specific programme in training for your first marathon in 3 monthes?

I plan on doing cork this year and I have begun running in the last few weeks, I play quite a lot of soccer and play at the weekend with a team so i'm reasonably fit but I appreciate a marathon is going to be very tough. at this stage i'm 3 weeks into training and my method has been gradual increases of a mile at a time, i'm now running 3 miles three times a week and plan on hitting 5 miles within 2 weeks and I am averaging 9 minute miles without killing my myself. my ambition is to complete the marathon under 4 hours so any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers.

--amadeus--

I did but I can't remember where I got it from!

This is a good basic, "get you round" schedule and a lot of people swear by Hal Higdon and his novice schedules. One program that I really like is the Furman Institute one. Only 3 runs a week, easy to schedule around and based on maintaining cross training so it's ideal for people like yourself who are coming from another sport.

Have a read through those and see which one looks practical and realistic for you to commit to, or google "marathon training plans" and if you see one you like post it up and the experienced runners on here will give it the once over. Do follow a plan though.

And good luck!