VHI article on protein supplements

BrokenArrows

http://www2.vhi.ie/topic/protein

Scientists have recently put protein supplements through rigorous tests, and the results have fallen far short of the promises. Two studies described in the February 1999 issue of the scientific journal Sports Medicine tell the tale. In one study, six inactive men and women and seven highly trained athletes spent 13 days on a diet that included a huge 2.4 grams of protein for kilogram body weight (that's roughly 218 grams for a 90 kilogram, or 200 pound person). They gained weight no faster than when they ate just 0.86 grams of protein per kilogram. An earlier study of 12 beginning bodybuilders, all men, produced similar results. During four weeks of intensive training, the subjects who received 2.6 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight each day didn't gain muscle or strength any faster than those who got only 1.4 grams of protein per kilogram.

All this tells us is that having x amount of a supplement more does not have a greater impact. Why not have person on no supplement v's person with x amount and person with 2x amount. That would be an interesting read.

2Scoops

Here is the actual investigation that the article mentions:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1474076?ordinalpos=33&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
It's hardly definitive. 13 days long. The most interesting finding to me is that the strength trainers need almost twice the protein of the sedentary people - a point conveniently overlooked by the VHI website. :rolleyes:

The facts are that while 'mega-doses' of protein are not required, strength training people need more protein than normal. And, while it's possible to get all this protein from a normal diet, it's a lot more difficult and expensive than simply supplementing your diet with whey (which is still 'natural' btw).

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Why not have person on no supplement v's person with x amount and person with 2x amount. That would be an interesting read.

Because the findings would more than likely not fit with the VHI's agenda. More than likely, a few studies like this have been done but they would take time to find.

Laslo

Do VHI have a vendetta against protein supplements? What a stupid, ill-conceived and ill-informed survey. OH... MY... GOD.

2Scoops

Laslo wrote: »

Do VHI have a vendetta against protein supplements?

More of a casual dismissal than a vendetta.

What a stupid, ill-conceived and ill-informed survey. OH... MY... GOD.

The studies are both perfectly fine for what they are. It's more their selective interpretation by others that should bother you.

rubadub

2Scoops wrote: »

The most interesting finding to me is that the strength trainers need almost twice the protein of the sedentary people - a point conveniently overlooked by the VHI website.

On the VHI site it did say.

Recent studies suggest that a 200-pound athlete should eat between 120 and 180 grams of protein every day, while a 200-pound office worker can get by quite nicely on only 70 to 90 grams

Also it says

In one study, six inactive men and women and seven highly trained athletes spent 13 days on a diet that included a huge 2.4 grams of protein for kilogram body weight (that's roughly 218 grams for a 90 kilogram, or 200 pound person). They gained weight no faster than when they ate just 0.86 grams of protein per kilogram. An earlier study of 12 beginning bodybuilders, all men, produced similar results. During four weeks of intensive training, the subjects who received 2.6 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight each day didn't gain muscle or strength any faster than those who got only 1.4 grams of protein per kilogram

The first bit just says weight, so they could well have put on more muscle. For the second one it does say muscle or strength, but in that case it is 1.4gram vs 2.6g, so both are quite high. and the 1.4 is in the region they talked of earlier (200lb man 120-180g). It would have been interesting to find the lower limit where it is effective. Also there is no mention of body composition, I imagine a 200lb BBer would need more than a 200lb beginner BBer who is fatter.

Dragan

The study makes absolutely no mention of the other macronutrient splits or even overall calorie intake. How the hell do we know how much the test subjects were actually eating?

VHI....... you suck balls!

Jimmy Bottlehead

Dragan wrote: »

VHI....... you suck balls!

Yeah, mens balls!

Khannie

rubadub wrote: »

The first bit just says weight, so they could well have put on more muscle.

This is the first thing that struck me. People who supplement their protein intake are usually looking for more than just weight, it's lean muscle they're after, which is much harder to put on than just "weight".

Dragan

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Yeah, mens balls!

Damn you, you made me laugh in work.....we can get fired for showing any kind of spirit in here!

rubadub

Khannie wrote: »

This is the first thing that struck me. People who supplement their protein intake are usually looking for more than just weight, it's lean muscle they're after, which is much harder to put on than just "weight".

As Dragan said there is no mention of calorific values, I presumed it was the same calorie value. But look at exactly what it said, no mention of training at all in the first study.

In one study, six inactive men and women and seven highly trained athletes spent 13 days on a diet that included a huge 2.4 grams of protein for kilogram body weight (that's roughly 218 grams for a 90 kilogram, or 200 pound person). They gained weight no faster than when they ate just 0.86 grams of protein per kilogram

So to me it makes no real difference if they are trained or not, I am presuming they are all on say 2500kcal a day and not training for 13 days. And all the study is interested in is weight, not muscle. In which case I would have actually expected that an increase in protein ratios would result in a lower weight. i.e. they are not training, eating the same amount of calories, so the thermic effect of the protein should be really causing weight loss. In fact if the athletes gave up training for 13days they are probably developing muscle after that break, so that muscle development will result in more caloire burn, and more maintenance, so it should lead to a further weight loss.


I hate these studies using faulty logic. I always wonder how they get funding without simply running their ideas past people first for comments on flaws or how it could be improved. I get annoyed watching mythbusters on TV, half the time there is no point watching since it is blatantly obvious that something is a myth or true, or that their test method is flawed. In this case it is like they came up with their own myths which nobody is claiming anywhere! and then disproving them and being delighted with themselves.

They compare 1.4g vs 2.6g. I dont know where they got the 2.6g figure from.

The message is clear: if you want to trade in your relatively normal body for the Mr. (or Ms.) Universe model, you can't live without products like protein powders and bars. After all, it takes protein to build muscles, so megadoses of protein must result in megamuscles, right?

Are they trying to say that these protein powders are recommending 2.6g per kilo bodyweight on the packs? Because I doubt many recommend that much.

StephenInsane

So at the end of the day are protein supplements good or bad?? a waste of money or good economic sense!!?? dangerous or healthy??!! tastie, delicious?????

Me is confused!

Khannie

StephenInsane wrote: »

So at the end of the day are protein supplements good or bad?? a waste of money or good economic sense!!?? dangerous or healthy??!! tastie, delicious?????

Good economic sense IMO.

BrokenArrows

StephenInsane wrote: »

So at the end of the day are protein supplements good or bad?? a waste of money or good economic sense!!?? dangerous or healthy??!! tastie, delicious?????

Me is confused!

basically supplements dont equal miracles
they just make it easier to get what you need without having to eat and eat and have to monitor your protein intake carefully. You just take a shake and focus on other stuff.

In my case im taking them for the sole fact that my work takes up alot of time and i find it hard to get the good 3 meals a day.

I always try and get a good breakfast, lunch can be hit and miss dinner is always there but its hit and miss whether its a good dinner.