Employer pay delay

givyjoe81

I just started a job there on wednesday. There are many things bothering me about but il get to the most important issue. Basically iv been told that i missed the "cut off date" and that i wouldnt be paid anything until the end of february, i was told with a smile and it would seem i was expected to just accept that and be on my merry way. So rather i decided to plead my case, i questioned whether anything could be done, as well living 0 euro's a week until the end of february was a bit tough, for obvious reasons.

So i was told "well il see what i can do". Now is it just me oversimplifying things or can this person not see to it that a cheque be written for the amount due for the month? They rang me last friday and said when can you start, i said monday but we agreed wednesday cos it was a bit short notice... anywho this person was aware of this cut off date and could have asked for the relevant details but didnt and now im left in limbo.

Before i go ranting and raving when i get what i fear is the inevitable bad news what is the legal position of such a situation. Surely an employer is not entitled to withold wages? Even if i have missed the "cut off date".

Sorry for such a long winded moan but please help!

WhiteWashMan

they arent withholding wages. you are now in the february pay month.
They dont have to pay you anything until next pay day.
if they do, they are being nice.

AARRRGH

I agree with WWM.

What's happened is fairly normal in big companies. It's happened to me a few times

I used to do payroll in an old job, and it's a pain in the hole (stressful, because people are very sensitive about their pay!), so I understand why the payroll people have a cut off date.

OP if I were you I'd let it go because if you keep kicking up a stink your boss will think you're a pain in the hole.

givyjoe81

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

they arent withholding wages. you are now in the february pay month.
They dont have to pay you anything until next pay day.
if they do, they are being nice.

How do you make that out?! Payment which was made for today was for the month of January, which still has 4 working days left in it. People werent paid for work up until today, they are paid the whole for the whole month of January. Not sure what you mean about now in february pay month. Being nice?! Are you joking? How is not leaving an employee without money for fuel, food and rent for the next FIVE WEEKS being 'nice'? And as i said surely a check can be written.

AARRRGH

Seriously, it's normal. It's the way the working world works.

Is this your first (or one of your first) "real" jobs?

givyjoe81

dublindude wrote: »

I agree with WWM.

What's happened is fairly normal in big companies. It's happened to me a few times

I used to do payroll in an old job, and it's a pain in the hole (stressful, because people are very sensitive about their pay!), so I understand why the payroll people have a cut off date.

OP if I were you I'd let it go because if you keep kicking up a stink your boss will think you're a pain in the hole.

I understand where he is coming from but certainly didnt appreciate the short sharp way in which it was put. Its not a big company, 40 staff if even. I know about the repurcussions if i start making a fuss but in fairness im hardly a concerned over nothing. The person knew the cut off date and if she had of said forwarned me I could have perhaps put off the start date which i would of course explained the reasons to her.

I appreciate its a stressfull job but people are sensitive because they need money to survive!! Dramatic perhaps but i mean that literally in this case.

uberwolf

I know where you're coming from, but honestly - you make a fuss over this and you're as good as giving up your fresh start. you'll just be the complaining pain in the hole, who can't manage his (her) finances.

I don't expect you'll win this fight, and even trying to take it on will see you throwing away ant good will towards you

givyjoe81

dublindude wrote: »

Seriously, it's normal. It's the way the working world works.

Is this your first (or one of your first) "real" jobs?

Ah i know that but there has been numerous lapses in communication so far and this has just taken the biscuit with me. Not my first job and well aware of the montly payment systems and how they work. But when i started i was blissfully unaware of what was about to happen. The accounts girl actually hands out the pay slips herself, she walked around the office, could see the big new head on me but didnt think to mention that i would not be paid!! Its a tough world and all that but i think some consideration particularly in a small office goes a long way.

It happened to a mate of mine and he had to wait two months to be paid, cant remember what on earth what their reason was at the time. And again i understand that there is a system in place and the reasons behind it i do but there is a bit of give and take aswell, there has to be a bit of understanding on their side of the hardship it will place.

AARRRGH

Oh yeah, I agree with you the employer could/should be more sensitive. Absolutely.

But there are a few things you can't change in life, and one of them is the payroll department

You'll survive.

watna

Sorry but that's completely normal and happens in nearly every company. Why should they sugarcoat it and be apologetic if it's company (and lot's of other company's) policy? They don't have to be nice to you about it. It's the way it is.

It's part of the world of working. A lot of companies half cut-off dates for pay, usually about the 15th of the month. E.G. January 15th - February 15th are the dates for February pay. So if you start on say the 20th January it's in February's pay period and the money you receive at the end of February is for half of feb and half of jan.

Yes, it sucks now but when you leave a job it's awesome. You get paid 3/4 weeks after you've left.

givyjoe81

uberwolf wrote: »

I know where you're coming from, but honestly - you make a fuss over this and you're as good as giving up your fresh start. you'll just be the complaining pain in the hole, who can't manage his (her) finances.

I don't expect you'll win this fight, and even trying to take it on will see you throwing away ant good will towards you

I do know all this really i do and i appreciate every comment, and thats whats killing me, there really is nothing i can do but bite my tongue. I did want to question the legality of it though. I thought perhaps there may a section in law somewhere governing frequency of payment or something. I wouldnt have gone in spouting legislation but i wanted to know for piece of mind. I do still think its way harsh for other reasons i cant go into.

Oh and regarding managing finances i dont have any to manage! Thats the point!

Duckjob

Agree with the replies above. It's not like they're trying to diddle you out of anything. They just have procedures in place.

If you're happy otherwise with the job I would just suck it up - maybe get a loan from friends or family to bridge the gap. Making a song and dance of this isn't going to create a good first impression. No company likes having whiney staff.

MarkR

Monthly pay is hard to get used to at first. I had to have my expenses etc sent in for wednesday just gone to meet the cutoff for january's pay (which was today I think) It's a rolling month and not much you can do. Some companies will offer new starts a sub / pay advance, it may be worth asking about.

givyjoe81

watna wrote: »

Sorry but that's completely normal and happens in nearly every company. Why should they sugarcoat it and be apologetic if it's company (and lot's of other company's) policy? They don't have to be nice to you about it. It's the way it is.

It's part of the world of working. A lot of companies half cut-off dates for pay, usually about the 15th of the month. E.G. January 15th - February 15th are the dates for February pay. So if you start on say the 20th January it's in February's pay period and the money you receive at the end of February is for half of feb and half of jan.

Yes, it sucks now but when you leave a job it's awesome. You get paid 3/4 weeks after you've left.

Er to me that makes no sense, cut off dates to me mean the day the transfers are sent off to the bank to be paid, you miss that date you miss being paid. But the reason im not getting paid isnt because i started after the cut off date its because they didnt have my bank details on that day.
thats what the cut off date implies no? Jan 15 to feb 15? If your paid montly the day or date of any month has no significance? Your paid for each month equally (i mean salary of course) no matter how many days are in it. Im not stating facts just my understanding of it. Like when i do get paid im not gonna be paid until the the 15th feb, im gonna be paid my month's salary, one twelvth of my yearly salary plus the seven days!!

AARRRGH

Calculating wages isn't easy though; it's not an automated system.

The cut off date does have significance because they are calculating the wages.

Seriously, I've done it, it's a pain in the hole...

Example:

I was paying the wages of 40ish people. They were all on a different commission structure, and a different salary. Also some of them had money being taken out of their wages. And some of them had expenses due back.

You have to calculate all of that, and then double check it because, trust me, if a mistake is made the payroll person is gonna know about it

givyjoe81

Duckjob wrote: »

Agree with the replies above. It's not like they're trying to diddle you out of anything. They just have procedures in place.

If you're happy otherwise with the job I would just suck it up - maybe get a loan from friends or family to bridge the gap. Making a song and dance of this isn't going to create a good first impression. No company likes having whiney staff.

I cant emphasise enough im really not being whiney and im not going into personal details but the reason this bothers me so much is because its putting me in an impossible situation. Im not gonna make a song and dance about it, cos i would have earlier if i was going to! But really loans off family simply isnt an option. I know they aing tryin to rob me or anything like it and i think perhaps i may have used the wrong wording in the beginning post, i just had to call the thread something so i thnk i may have used with holding money.

Oh and something interesting my accounting lecturer once told me, she said never ever work for anybody who pays you by the month. I know nearly everywhere does now and so did the college pay her by the month but there ya go.

givyjoe81

dublindude wrote: »

Calculating wages isn't easy though; it's not an automated system.

The cut off date does have significance because they are calculating the wages.

Seriously, I've done it, it's a pain in the hole...

Example:

I was paying the wages of 40ish people. They were all on a different commission structure, and a different salary. Also some of them had money being taken out of their wages. And some of them had expenses due back.

I know i seem like i prob am whining but im absolutely panic stricken with the prospect of no money at all til then, hence the many many replies.

You have to calculate all of that, and then double check it because, trust me, if a mistake is made the payroll person is gonna know about it

Yeah thats fair enough, and i appreciate the other point of view. And i do know it will prob take them an extra half hour or whatever to do it and will be an inconvenience but its an even bigger inconvenience to me for them not to do it. And the way i look at it is im gonna be going the extra mile for them for years to come, whether i like it or not.

mikemac

I agree with all others OP.
What has happened you is completly normal and I thinking this must be your first salary paid job as otherwise you may have seen this before.

Calculating payroll is a difficult job so many large organizations pay monthly and most employees can deal with this fine

But one of your posts has you looking to quote laws and look at legal avenues :rolleyes:
I assume you signed a contract or at least it was explained you were paid monthly before you started.

Don't be difficult and don't piss off your management. Feburary is the shortest month of the year and it'll be payday in no time.
And if you're badly stuck, take your employment contract into your bank and you can get a loan once they see you are in full-time salaried employment.

givyjoe81

micmclo wrote: »

I agree with all others OP.
What has happened you is completly normal and I thinking this must be your first salary paid job as otherwise you may have seen this before.

Calculating payroll is a difficult job so many large organizations pay monthly and most employees can deal with this fine

But one of your posts has you looking to quote laws and look at legal avenues :rolleyes:
I assume you signed a contract or at least it was explained you were paid monthly before you started.

Don't be difficult and don't piss off your management. Feburary is the shortest month of the year and it'll be payday in no time.
And if you're badly stuck, take your employment contract into your bank and you can get a loan once they see you are in full-time salaried employment.

Let me clarify:

I have no problem with being paid by the month
Its not my first job.
I have a legal qualification ( but i certainly dont claim to know it all) so i read my contract front to back and back to front, i was well aware of being paid by the month. i simply wanted to know for curiosity sake were they breaching any laws, cos i wasnt aware that they were.
I havent been difficult, far from it. I was polite, courteous and brief, im well aware the person i spoke to has other things to deal with as do the payroll people. But im sure you understand when faced with a personal financial crisis its hard to full appreciate the other side's point of view.

What seriously bugged me was the fact that i was not told what i would not be getting paid at any point, by anyone. The girl who handed out slips as i said didnt even bat an eye lid at me, didnt think to say who are you, have you handed in your documents so we can pay you. The person who interviewed me, and offered the job to me, told me when to start didnt say boo until it was too late. She could have taken my details BEFORE i started and it would have prevented this. Another guy started on monday who was paid no problem, so some one had to go to him and ask him the to give the detials needed.

The reason this annoys me more is because when i started my last job on a similar odd date all this was explained to me before hand without the need to investigate it myself. So i was going in with my eyes wide open.

And i have never had problems managing money at all, and never usually require or take loans from anyone other than banks. And again i dont want to go into details of why im in this situation because it will easily be taken up the wrong way.

I will however go to my bank and do as you suggested.

eth0_

Don't take this the wrong way but you should take more responsibility for your finances. Waiting 5 weeks to be paid should NOT be a big deal. As dublindude explained to you, payroll is complicated and that's why they do it in the middle of the month so as to allow themselves time to correct mistakes. Any place i've worked, if you started after the middle of the month you'd be waiting til the end of the next month to be paid.

I don't know what on earth your accounting lecturer was on about - as you said, most jobs pay by the month. I couldn't possibly budget properly if I was getting paid once a week..

Duckjob

Sorry, but I do think you are making more of this than necessary.

Calculate how much you need to cover your essential living costs food, rent etc and then ask a friend to sub you a small loan and live frugally for the few weeks.

Don't mean to sound harsh, but next time you need to plan ahead a bit more financially and not be living by the pin of your collar especially when changing jobs.

mick.fr

A week pay was not going to help you out paying your rent, food, bills etc. anyway.
Plus you just started in this company and you are already making a mess.
Get a week-end job at Domino Pizza they hire all the time.

givyjoe81

eth0_ wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way but you should take more responsibility for your finances. Waiting 5 weeks to be paid should NOT be a big deal. As dublindude explained to you, payroll is complicated and that's why they do it in the middle of the month so as to allow themselves time to correct mistakes. Any place i've worked, if you started after the middle of the month you'd be waiting til the end of the next month to be paid.

I don't know what on earth your accounting lecturer was on about - as you said, most jobs pay by the month. I couldn't possibly budget properly if I was getting paid once a week..

Look guys let me say this once more im not going into why im in this situation but im getting sick of this plan your finances better, its not a case of bad financial planning, iv been living on very little for the last number of months and have managed, the point is that i cant manage on nothing and you may believe that one and half weeks pay isnt a big deal but i do. That and what i have would have made it possible, barely, for me to last. Maybe in any place you have worked but NEVER in any place i have worked do the they need to impose a nine day cut off point for the wages, iv worked in far far bigger companies and it their i have not encountered such a long cut off period.

And as for the lecturer she was referring to big corporations who were earning interest on the money if they paid weekly they wouldnt be. Well in my opinion you should easily be able to budget weekly, that to me makes very little sense. And i didnt really take her seriously, and neither was she when she said it, like i said she was paid by the month and i know there are other reasons for paying monthly other than gaining interest.

parsi

When I started work in my first job I got paid on my first Thursday. Unfortunately it was for the totally wrong amount so I reluctantly handed it back. It didn't surprise me because I'd known about working x weeks in hand.

watna

I've gone 6 weeks without being paid, in my first job. It's shít, I sympathise, I really do. That was a horrible month! There's really not much you can do though, it's not that unusual. Either you get a small loan/overdraft from your bank or live on your credit card, or ask the company you're working for to sub you some wages. That can be dangerous though as it reduces your next payment and can be a vicious cycle and I wouldn't imagine many companies would be up for it. You've nothing to lose by asking though, as long as you're respectful about it.

givyjoe81

Surely this is a joke, why on earth would i get a job working for domino's? Do you think i just arrived in on the last boat or something? Iv spent long enough while in college working my arse off in crappy part time jobs not to have to resort to them now. I might add i was perfectly able to manage on the budget i aquired from these jobs, whether i was by week or month.

And another final note is that not being pissing my employer off by going barking mad at them, that swings both ways. Im no fool, im well educated and im an asset to them, so it does them no good to be leaving new employees in the lurch. As i mentioned its not just about the money, although that is the cruz of my problem. Its like this treat your employees well and you reap the benefits. Sure it may be the "norm" but its the norm for me and anyone else to clock off at five o'clock, but if im needed i stay back, i try to help out, whatever. You get me?

watna

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Surely this is a joke, why on earth would i get a job working for domino's? Do you think i just arrived in on the last boat or something? Iv spent long enough while in college working my arse off in crappy part time jobs not to have to resort to them now. I might add i was perfectly able to manage on the budget i aquired from these jobs, whether i was by week or month.

And another final note is that not being pissing my employer off by going barking mad at them, that swings both ways. Im no fool, im well educated and im an asset to them, so it does them no good to be leaving new employees in the lurch. As i mentioned its not just about the money, although that is the cruz of my problem. Its like this treat your employees well and you reap the benefits. Sure it may be the "norm" but its the norm for me and anyone else to clock off at five o'clock, but if im needed i stay back, i try to help out, whatever. You get me?

No I don't get you. I don't think there's any need for that tone either. People were trying to help. You said that not getting paid for 5 weeks was putting you in an awkward situation, it was only a suggestion to keep you going. Now you're saying it's not only about the money. What is it about then?

givyjoe81

watna wrote: »

I've gone 6 weeks without being paid, in my first job. It's shít, I sympathise, I really do. That was a horrible month! There's really not much you can do though, it's not that unusual. Either you get a small loan/overdraft from your bank or live on your credit card, or ask the company you're working for to sub you some wages. That can be dangerous though as it reduces your next payment and can be a vicious cycle and I wouldn't imagine many companies would be up for it. You've nothing to lose by asking though, as long as you're respectful about it.

Thanks, its much appreciated. It is hard to convey a situation properly on here and it really is easy to just take a harsh line like "tough luck". I just wanted some practical advice which you and SOME others have kindly provided. As i mentioned the same thing as happened to you happened my mate and i was outraged on his behalf. It's too easy for companies to just brush you aside with company policy crap. As i mentioned if your seen to go that bit further for your employee then they will be far more likely to do the same in return. Credit card is a no go im afraid! Thats close to its max, which isnt very high anyway, which is a good thing. But will certainly look into a loan/overdraft. I am usually a bit of a mcguyver when it comes to these situaitons but panic and distress took hold.

I did already ask the job to do what they can, words such as sub were mentioned but i got the impression its not likely. Now my plan was to only get an amount or as close to as reasonably possible to spend as the money which im owed, then il simply be getting a regular amount in my pay check.

watna

You're welcome, and I think you're right. If you are seen to be more helpful to your employee there are more likely to put themselves out and sub your wages. It's certainly worth putting your case across and seeing where you get.

givyjoe81

watna wrote: »

No I don't get you. I don't think there's any need for that tone either. People were trying to help. You said that not getting paid for 5 weeks was putting you in an awkward situation, it was only a suggestion to keep you going. Now you're saying it's not only about the money. What is it about then?

I can clearly tell your tryin to help but as i said its hard to gauge sometimes what some people mean here, and that comment about getting a job in domino's could easily be interpreted as taking the p.is.s.

CuLT

I think some people are unnecessarily being jerks in this thread, you're treating this chap very dismissively and with (probably unintentional) patronization.

It took me a while to get my head around the pay system at my last job (first salaried job), paid on the 24th of the month, which was calculated from the 12th of one month to the 12th of the next. Drove me up the wall trying to calculate what I was going to be paid any given payday but got used to it eventually

leeroybrown

I think the main reason it wasn't mentioned is that it's a standard thing in companies who pay monthly. Any company I've worked for with a monthly pay structure has operated in exactly the same fashion. If I turned up to a new job after the middle of the month I'd wouldn't be surprised if I missed the payroll run.

It would be nice if the company mentioned the payroll date but in the grand scheme of things this is about as minor an issue as I can think of.

Duckjob

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Im no fool, im well educated and im an asset to them, so it does them no good to be leaving new employees in the lurch. As i mentioned its not just about the money, although that is the cruz of my problem. Its like this treat your employees well and you reap the benefits. Sure it may be the "norm" but its the norm for me and anyone else to clock off at five o'clock, but if im needed i stay back, i try to help out, whatever. You get me?

Again, no offense, but you're coming across as having a bit of an attitude.

Firstly, bigger companies are impersonal. They're not treating you well by this, nor or they treating you badly.They're just following well established procedures, which is what bigger companies do.

Secondly, you may be an asset to them in the future, but you're not now. Right now, they have no idea how good (or bad) you might be at the job, and so they are evaluating you tentatively. I hope you're clued in enough not to go telling them how you're an asset to them, because you're not - not yet anyway.

If I were you I would have a word (nicely, no attitude) with your immediate manager and ask them if they could help you to liase with the payroll dept. You may well find them keen to work something out as long as you approach with the right attitude.

givyjoe81

Duckjob wrote: »

Again, no offense, but you're coming across as having a bit of an attitude.

Firstly, bigger companies are impersonal. They're not treating you well by this, nor or they treating you badly.They're just following well established procedures, which is what bigger companies do.

Secondly, you may be an asset to them in the future, but you're not now. Right now, they have no idea how good (or bad) you might be at the job, and so they are evaluating you tentatively. I hope you're clued in enough not to go telling them how you're an asset to them, because you're not - not yet anyway.

If I were you I would have a word (nicely, no attitude) with your immediate manager and ask them if they could help you to liase with the payroll dept. You may well find them keen to work something out as long as you approach with the right attitude.

Im not that sensitive! I can understand it seems like that but i genuinely thought he was taking the mickey, no pun itended. I wouldnt dream of telling them im this or that and i know im absolutely useless as i am right now! But i genuinely am an asset to them! or at least will be! Im just confident in my own abilties to do this particular job and do it well.

On how to approach it your totally right and that was how i planned on approaching it, i could do little more today than just ask what she could do. But any thing else i say will of course be buttered up.

BTW this company isnt that big, not by a long shot.

WhiteWashMan

dont go around here shouting when people tell you what happens int he big bad world.

Whether you like it or not, it what happens. youre not being shafted, your employer is not delaying your pay in anyway, i suggest you suck it up and while youre at it, clear up your attitude.

givyjoe81

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

dont go around here shouting when people tell you what happens int he big bad world.

Whether you like it or not, it what happens. youre not being shafted, your employer is not delaying your pay in anyway, i suggest you suck it up and while youre at it, clear up your attitude.

They only one who needs to check their attitude is you, i have thanked people several times here who have provided constructive advice unlike yourself with smart ar se comments like suck it up. As one chap already mentioned some people are being di c k heads with their responses, and i think you fit into that category. You dont know me or my situation in detail so if all you have to share is "suck it up, big bad world" etc then perhaps you should keep your advice to yourself.

I appreciate all others who have tried to help me but not the kind of crap your spouting. And for you information is not what always happens in the big bad world. I have had plenty of jobs paid by the month and i understand how they work.

Nody

givyjoe81 wrote: »

And for you information is not what always happens in the big bad world. I have had plenty of jobs paid by the month and i understand how they work.

For someone with "plenty of jobs paid by the month" who "understands how they work" you have through out this thread shown a rather big gap in that understanding I'm sorry to say. Claiming payroll takes "30 minutes" etc. clearly shows you don't have that experience and through out this thread you keep on saying it's the company is at fault and you should be paid some how etc. Allow me to flip the question, why is it up the company to make sure you have your economy sorted out? What if you did not get this job etc.?

In short, the company will pay you your salary, it will be with in the legal limits when it does so, hence it is YOUR problem to sort out, not the company. If your money was THAT tight YOU should have gone directly to HR and spoken with them. You should have been the proactive part here as you are the one know know your situation, not the company and because it is YOUR responsibility to handle your economy, not the company.

Trampas

If you started in my company on the same date as you, you wouldn't get a cent until Feb 25th.

10th is the cut off for OT.

If you do OT on the 11th you get it next month.

Its hard but you will get it all back next month.

WhiteWashMan

givyjoe81 wrote: »

They only one who needs to check their attitude is you, i have thanked people several times here who have provided constructive advice unlike yourself with smart ar se comments like suck it up. As one chap already mentioned some people are being di c k heads with their responses, and i think you fit into that category. You dont know me or my situation in detail so if all you have to share is "suck it up, big bad world" etc then perhaps you should keep your advice to yourself.

I appreciate all others who have tried to help me but not the kind of crap your spouting. And for you information is not what always happens in the big bad world. I have had plenty of jobs paid by the month and i understand how they work.

angry young man.
If you know so much, what are you here asking questions for?